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BS: On strike and in contempt of court

dianavan 15 Oct 05 - 01:10 AM
dianavan 15 Oct 05 - 01:18 AM
Joe Offer 15 Oct 05 - 03:54 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Oct 05 - 03:58 AM
GUEST,Boab 15 Oct 05 - 04:01 AM
GUEST,Guest Jon Bartlett 15 Oct 05 - 04:21 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 15 Oct 05 - 09:17 AM
Gray D 15 Oct 05 - 02:48 PM
Peace 15 Oct 05 - 02:59 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 05 - 03:38 PM
Peace 15 Oct 05 - 03:42 PM
wysiwyg 15 Oct 05 - 04:06 PM
Mooh 15 Oct 05 - 07:01 PM
John O'L 15 Oct 05 - 07:20 PM
GUEST 15 Oct 05 - 09:43 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Oct 05 - 09:51 PM
dianavan 15 Oct 05 - 10:27 PM
Bassic 16 Oct 05 - 06:17 AM
JennyO 16 Oct 05 - 08:59 AM
dianavan 16 Oct 05 - 10:39 PM
Stilly River Sage 16 Oct 05 - 11:24 PM
Hrothgar 17 Oct 05 - 06:32 AM
Mooh 17 Oct 05 - 07:19 AM
The Fooles Troupe 17 Oct 05 - 09:03 AM
gnu 17 Oct 05 - 11:54 AM
GUEST 17 Oct 05 - 12:12 PM
TheBigPinkLad 17 Oct 05 - 04:57 PM
TheBigPinkLad 17 Oct 05 - 05:09 PM
dianavan 17 Oct 05 - 10:21 PM
GUEST,parent 18 Oct 05 - 08:42 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Oct 05 - 08:53 PM
Bobert 18 Oct 05 - 09:26 PM
Peace 18 Oct 05 - 09:38 PM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Oct 05 - 09:58 PM
dianavan 19 Oct 05 - 12:16 AM
ragdall 19 Oct 05 - 01:52 AM
dianavan 19 Oct 05 - 03:49 AM
Mooh 19 Oct 05 - 09:15 AM
Charmion 19 Oct 05 - 12:49 PM
Sorcha 19 Oct 05 - 01:16 PM
number 6 19 Oct 05 - 06:02 PM
Big Mick 19 Oct 05 - 06:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Oct 05 - 07:09 PM
dianavan 20 Oct 05 - 02:57 AM
Metchosin 20 Oct 05 - 05:12 AM
Big Mick 20 Oct 05 - 08:41 AM
The Fooles Troupe 20 Oct 05 - 08:57 AM
TheBigPinkLad 20 Oct 05 - 12:53 PM
Charmion 20 Oct 05 - 03:08 PM
Auggie 20 Oct 05 - 03:40 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Oct 05 - 04:34 PM
Richard Bridge 20 Oct 05 - 07:24 PM
GUEST,parent 20 Oct 05 - 07:51 PM
dianavan 20 Oct 05 - 09:44 PM
dianavan 20 Oct 05 - 10:49 PM
dianavan 20 Oct 05 - 11:00 PM
GUEST,Boab 21 Oct 05 - 01:07 AM
Teribus 21 Oct 05 - 07:05 AM
Peace 21 Oct 05 - 07:00 PM
Auggie 21 Oct 05 - 09:24 PM
GUEST 21 Oct 05 - 09:40 PM
GUEST,parent 21 Oct 05 - 09:57 PM
Peace 21 Oct 05 - 10:01 PM
Peace 21 Oct 05 - 10:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Oct 05 - 10:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Oct 05 - 11:06 PM
Metchosin 22 Oct 05 - 01:51 AM
dianavan 22 Oct 05 - 03:56 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Oct 05 - 02:31 PM
dianavan 22 Oct 05 - 02:46 PM
GUEST,parent 22 Oct 05 - 03:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Oct 05 - 04:46 PM
Metchosin 22 Oct 05 - 05:40 PM
Auggie 22 Oct 05 - 06:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Oct 05 - 07:45 PM
dianavan 22 Oct 05 - 10:04 PM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Oct 05 - 02:50 AM
Metchosin 23 Oct 05 - 03:43 AM
ossonflags 23 Oct 05 - 04:43 AM
GUEST,p 23 Oct 05 - 04:14 PM
Peace 23 Oct 05 - 04:15 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Oct 05 - 05:24 PM
Peace 23 Oct 05 - 05:31 PM
Bob the Postman 24 Oct 05 - 08:39 AM
Big Mick 24 Oct 05 - 09:21 AM
dianavan 24 Oct 05 - 11:01 PM
Peace 24 Oct 05 - 11:04 PM
dianavan 24 Oct 05 - 11:23 PM

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Subject: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:10 AM

Some of you belong to unions, some of you don't so some of might be interested, some of you not.

B.C.'s teachers have been legislated as an essential service, their bargaining rights stripped and have had four contracts imposed on them in the last ten years. We decided enough was enough and voted 90.5% to strike.

We were, of course, legislated back to work. We (40,000 teachers of B.C.) refused and continued to walk the line. We were held in contempt of court. We continued to walk. The union's assets were frozen so that they could not pay us our $50.00 a day strike pay or publicly advertise. We will continue to walk until the provincial government sits down with us to negotiate a contract.

Parents, students and other unions are supporting us. Our school trustees support us, City hall supports us, now the Federation of Labour is holding a protest in the provincial capital to protest an unjust law which has stripped us of our rights. All public sector and some private sector unions in the capital will join in.

We started out as 40,000 strong and now we are 210,000 strong and growing. Our support reaches from the Pacific to the Atlantic of Canada.

I am retiring in a few years so the working and learning conditions we are fighting for will not benefit me and in fact will hurt my pension. This is not about money or personal gain. Its about democratic principles.   I thought some of you might be interested to know that some of us are indeed ready to fight for democracy. Wish us luck - we will need it!

http://www.workingtv.com/bctfsupportrally.html


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in cotempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 01:18 AM

bad spelling error in the title - apologies

Ahould be contempt!

Also lost a few words here and there. Sorry, its late and walking that picket line in the wind and the rain is mind numbing.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:54 AM

Good luck, Diana. It seems it has become fashionable to "bust unions" again. It's patently unfair to freeze the union's assets so it can't give strike pay.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:58 AM

Shades of Margaret Thatcher!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in cotempt of court
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:01 AM

My partner is a BC teacher, Dianavan.She's home tonight chilled to the bone after sharing the gawdawful weather with you. And she'll be out there again Monday in vehement protest against the jackboots which seem to have taken over British Columbia. The courts have colluded with Campbell's vultures in cutting the BCTF members FROM THEIR OWN MONEY. And some say the law can't be bad?? We are depending now on Boab's small [real small] pension; but it needs a fight to get the kids back all that has been literally stolen from them by this bunch. I hope now for positive support from BC workers. If it is not forthcoming, this could end in an even deeper slough of despond for both kids and teachers in BC.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,Guest Jon Bartlett
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:21 AM

I think the BC Liberal government has made a HUGE mistake in how they are playing the strike. The standard line from them (and from their supporters) is "The fault's with the big, bad union, not with the nurses/teachers/ferryworkers/whoever." The Court has taken the BCTF out of the picture: it can't distribute strike pay, use its offices, its emails, etc. Now it's the big, bad GOVERNMENT against the poor teachers, and this will make it all but impossible to get public support. By legislating the teachers back even before they had gone out, they used up every tool in the toolbox. If teachers now refuse to go back without a repeal of Bill 12 (which ordered them back and extended the contract), the government can do nothing more, except maybe send the union leaders to jail. And can you imagine that as a media event - with bands playing, banners waving and thousands behind them in a March of Honour?

Way to go, teachers! You make me proud to be a BC'er!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 09:17 AM

I hope you get what you should have a right to, Dianavan. Everyone should have those basic rights, whatever the cost.

Don T.

BTW Richard, I can't recall Maggie freezing Union assets to prevent strike pay. When did that happen?

I was under the impression that essential services "No strike" agreements in the UK were negotiated, not imposed.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Gray D
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 02:48 PM

Let's not get into thread drift Don T.

The union laws in the UK are (still) complicated and, to my mind, draconian. Discuss it on a separate thread if you must but let's stick to using this one to support BC's teachers.

How COULD a government try to make teachers and their representatives look like bad guys? That's just deranged.

Good luck and success with your fight Dianavan and the rest of your colleagues.

Gray D


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 02:59 PM

Dianavan,

I don't doubt that the various Associations and Federations will be sending some financial help, also.

This site has letters of support from teacher organizations/unions/federations. Hang tough and thank you from the rest of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:38 PM

Dianavan,

You and I have had our squabbles here at Mudcat, but I support you and your union fully on this one!

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:42 PM

"Are you showing contempt for this court?"

"Uh, no! We're doing our best to hide it."


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:06 PM

Best of luck to you all, dianavan.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 07:01 PM

dianavan...If I could walk the line with you I would, so trust I'm with you in spirit. I have worked as a union-side negotiator for strike and arbitration workplaces in Ontario, and know that any government which imposes an "agreement" has agreed to nothing and turns back the clock on labour relations decades in both respect and trust. Hold your ground.

How long the general strike?

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: John O'L
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 07:20 PM

My sympathies are with you too dianavan. We are all under attack from this new wave of corporate bean counting. Every win against inhumanity is vital to all of us. Be strong for all our sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 09:43 PM

With you, sister.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 09:51 PM

Give 'em hell!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:27 PM

Thank-you so much for your support. It really means alot to us.

Many of us are struggling financially as a result of this strike, especially those with one income and those with two teacher incomes. Luckily, our banks are very helpful to us at this time (only too glad to extend the overdraft) and our union is able to provide interest free loans. Post-secondary unions are handing out $50.00 food vouchers and parents and students are walking the picket line with us, bringing us cookies and donuts. Even our administrators (principal and V.P.) are bringing out pots of hot tea.   

I have never felt so much support and so much unity in this province. I think what encourages us the most is that our students are supporting us. The most important thing of all is that instead of seeing us as law-breakers, they see us as having the courage to stand up to injustice. I now understand the meaning of being a good 'role model'. We are showing them how to stand up to bullies.

I am proud to be a teacher.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Bassic
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 06:17 AM

Part Of The Union
by Ford/Hudson, (The Strawbs)

Now I'm a union man
Amazed at what I am
I say what I think
That the company stinks
Yes I'm a union man.

When we meet in the local hall
I'll be voting with them all
With a hell of a shout
It's out brothers out
And the rise of the factory's fall.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.

As a union man I'm wise
To the lies of the company spies
And I don't get fooled
By the factory rules
'Cause I always read between the lines.

And I always get my way
If I strike for higher pay
When I show my card
To the Scotland Yard
This what I say.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.

Before the union did appear
My life was half as clear
Now I've got the power
To the working hour
And every other day of the year.

So though I'm a working man
I can ruin the government's plan
Though I'm not too hard
The sight of my card
Makes me some kind of superman.

Oh you don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
You don't get me I'm part of the union
Till the day I die, till the day I die.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: JennyO
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 08:59 AM

Dianavan - with you in solidarity! - from JennyO and jack halyard (John Warner)

Bring Out The Banners
A Song by John Warner ©John Warner 1997
(Tune: Oxford or See Amid The Winter's Snow by John Goss. 1800-1880)

In faded photo, like a dream,
A locomotive under steam
Rolls with the ranks of marching feet
And union banners on the street.

Chorus
Bring out the banners once again,
You union women, union men,
That all around may plainly see
The power of our unity.

I've seen those banners richly made
With symbols fair of craft and trade,
The union's names in red and gold,
Their aspirations printed bold.

Boilermakers, smiths and cooks,
Stevedores with cargo hooks,
Declare their union strong and proud,
Rank on rank before the crowd.

They won the eight-hour working day,
They won our right to honest pay,
Victorious their banners shone,
How dare we lose what they have won?

Today, when those who rule divide,
We must be standing side by side,
Our rights were bought with tears and pain,
Bring out the banners once again.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:39 PM

The Business Council of BC has told us to go back to work and that we are basically thumbing our noses at the court.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/10/16/teachers-bc051016.html

...hmmm - not actually. We're thumbing our noses at an unjust law. What happens to us will effect every union and subsequently, non-union worker in B.C. Since when do union workers listen to business, especially big business? Why do they think we have unions in the first place?

Big business is afraid that we are going to shut-down the provincial capital and hurt business. Well, yeah... thats the idea. If they are so afraid, maybe they should implore the government they put in power, to sit down and negotiate a contract with us.

Appealing to us to return to work is laughable. Accusing us of thumbing our noses at the justice system is just another way of trying to demonize us. We had to take the govt. to supreme court so that we could even be allowed to talk to parents regarding our working and learning conditions.

Do governments think that they can make unjust laws and then expect that we will blindly follow because it is the law?

Kill Bill 12!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 11:24 PM

They've probably learned some of their dirty tricks froms South of the border. Bush has nailed federal employees here again and again with his totally unfair policies and practices. They are also prohibited from striking. (One year he took back part of the federal 3% COLA and gave it as a big juicy bonus to his overpaid political appointees).

Good luck. You will need it to get through all of the pressure.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Hrothgar
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 06:32 AM

Little John Howard wants to bring in laws like this for everybody in Australia.

Give 'em hell, D!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:19 AM

Denying workers their strike pay is like the bank preventing you from withdrawing cash. The money is already the worker's money, not the employer's or the government's. It is set aside as insurance. It is managed and invested by the representing union as it is a portion of the dues paid by the worker. The government has the lesser weapon if the teachers will stay out long enough and sell their cause skillfully.

Call the general strike!

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 09:03 AM

Denying workers strike pay is a bullying Facsist act. They won;t let them have unemployment benefits either, I bet.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: gnu
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 11:54 AM

Solidarity!!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 12:12 PM

Hopefully you'll have better luck there than unionists have here in the good ole' U.S. of A. Remember striking air traffic controllers during the Ray-gun administration? Uncle Ronnie declared a national emergency and ordered them back to work. Those that stood their ground lost their jobs to workers looking to get hired in.

The same strategy was then used on United Transportation Union workers - when the railroad workers struck, their service was considered essential and with the railroads shut down the country was in a state of national emergency. Go back to work or lose your job to someone who doesn't care about unions as long as he can get a coveted railroad job and feed his family. UTU lost all their bargaining power, but none of ther union dues, as it was mandatory to be a part of the union in order to keep the job.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 04:57 PM

Well, it's pissing rain but on the Legislature laws are thousands of teachers and supporters excercising their right to protest. The Premier has just told a press conference that the action is illegal and teachers should get back to work before any talks can happen. A special prosecutor has been appointed to consider what action to take against both union leaders AND individual teachers.

One kid I saw had a placard showing the Maui mug-shot of Premier Cambell when he got arrested for drunk driving last year overwritten with "My Granny is not a Criminal". Cute.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 05:09 PM

Legislature laws should be Legislature lawns ...


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 10:21 PM

I didn't picket today. I worked in the union office. Can't say what I was doing. It might be illegal. Lots of good jokes about being criminals. Listened to Campbell on the radio.

One of the many things that he failed to mention is that the reason a special prosecutor was appointed was because the association of public prosecutors refused to prosecute. He says it was because there was a conflict of interest. Maybe its because he already screwed them around last year.

Campbell keeps saying that if we go back to work, the union will be invited to talk at his super, duper, new Learning Roundtable. Why? We already have a process for negotiations in place. This is just another slimy trick. His credibility is zero!

He wants to break the union but everytime he treats us with contempt, we just get stronger.

For those of you who don't know about the Maui mug-shot; our Premier Campbell (the real criminal) was arrested for drunk driving in Maui. What they haven't told you was why his wife wasn't with him in Hawaii and who he had just dropped off.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,parent
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:42 PM

and I bet that theyre doing it all for the kids..

I understand the teachers are looking for a 15% increase.
as well as reduced class sizes.

Not bad, I wouldnt mind a 15% increase either.
with a starting salary of $39,000 and 2 months off in the summer plus a couple of weeks for Christmas & Spring breaks and the 9 stats, I dont think they have much to complain about.

oh and of course, their job is so much harder and more stressful than all the rest of us..


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:53 PM

As someone who walked away from a Teacher training course after the first Prac Teaching week cause I could see that the little *****darlings were far too clever for me to exercise any control over...

Teachers don't have the summer 'off' they are doing planning, etc. And from my friends who are teachers - it's a very high stress job that has a few satisfactions to people who care about other people.

But why should they live in less luxury that businessmen who have easier jobs and get paid millions?


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:26 PM

Hey, don't matter if yer a teacher, a fireman or a brick layer, bottom line is that your work positively impacts the *wealth* of yer community...

Now I have stated before that all wealth is created from labor and not capital and no one yet has convinced me otherwise so...

... hey, why shouldn't the common folks, who slave away a greater portion of their individual lives, not be rewarded for their efforts??? No, in recent years it seem that those with money think their money *entitles* them to teh lions share of the wealth??? LIke, where di they ever get that idea??? Oh yeah, it's the way rich folks think????

Here in the US, the rich folk aren't content in reinvestin' their tax windfalls, thanks to Bush, into factories to employ Americans... No, they want to use their tax "relief" to lend back to the workin' class (at eusery interest rates)... Like big whoop!!!!

Meanwhile the workin' stiff goes backwards....

I know that America is long over due for a revolution but didn't think Canada 'er BC was that close on our heels...

Hang in there, d, an' as a former teacher, I know yer worth, even if the knotheadas don't...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:38 PM

"Not bad, I wouldnt mind a 15% increase either.
with a starting salary of $39,000 and 2 months off in the summer plus a couple of weeks for Christmas & Spring breaks and the 9 stats"

Here's how. Get a Degree and Certification and luxury is YOURS.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 09:58 PM

And you won't get Certified with one of those cheap $50 on line degrees either - well maybe you will, but not as a Teacher...


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:16 AM

Dear Parent -

As a starting point for negotiation, teacher are asking for a 15% raise over the next three years. Considering that we have had a 1% raise each year for the last 10 years, I don't think that its unreasonable. Ontario teachers, where the cost of living is similar, make $10,000.00 more a year than we do.

For ten years we have been tightening our belts but this year the Province has an economic surplus. Last year, the MLA's gave themselves a 10% increase and this year, Corporations were given big tax cuts. Since our salaries have not even kept up with the cost of living and inflation, it is our turn to reap some of the benefits of our healthy economy.

When I applied for the professional development program, there were 800 applicants for 200 seats. This year there are 85 empty seats. The profession is not attracting enough young people. You tell me why?

Most teachers would not care about a salary increase if we could improve the learning and working conditions at school. As a proponent of integration of special needs students, I am horrified to see what has resulted.

Special needs students need additional support. That support and programming has not come through. Those kids have simply been dumped into the mainstream classroom with little or no assistance. In addition there are students with severe behavioural problems and students who are learning English as a second language. Without the additional support, what kind of education do you think the mainstream kids are receiving?

In our district, teacher spend an average of $500.00 a year for learning resources. We aren't doing that anymore and parents are burnt-out on fund-raising. Its time the government took some responsibility and started funding the schools adequately. We have high school students in classes that are so crowded that they have to share desks. There are not even enough places to sit!

We (parents and teachers) have accomodated cut-backs long enough.

BTW Guest Parent - How much time have you spent in your child's classroom? Anyone who is actively involved in their child's education understands that this is an important partnership. Those that don't, tend to treat teachers like overpaid babysitters.

Oh and P.S. Teachers do not make the school calendar. That was decided long ago when parents needed the kids to help out on the farm. Many, many teachers teach summer school or work at other jobs to make ends meet.

...and lets not forget that $50,000.00 student loan debt that had to be paid back.

Yeah - and now the Ratepayers Assoc. say they are going to sue the union for daycare expenses that they have had to pay since school has been shut down. What kind of school do they want their kid to attend? I guess for some people, their kids are the responsibility of someone else. Too bad they don't care about their child's environment. Out of sight, out of mind.

I would also like to say that the teachers here are highly trained and exceptionally good at what they do. We have an excellent
reputation. Out math students placed third, internationally.

You know what? You get what you pay for and if the schools don't get more money, the kids will suffer and society will suffer. I shudder to imagine what will become of the families who do not seem to value their children. You reap what you sow.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: ragdall
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:52 AM

dianavan,
Thank you for all the background information. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.   

I teach on call in B.C. The children need the learning conditions to improve.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 03:49 AM

Guest,parent - ...and another thing! Get your figures straight or site your source.

A teacher starts at $35,000.00 Canadian, and thats after a couple of years of being on-call, part-time and trying to pay off his/her student loan debt. That means that after taxes and deductions, he/she will be bringing home about 18,000.00 Canadian for living expenses and debts. How much is that in U.S. dollars per month?   


ragdall - For a look at the contract, go here -

http://www.bctf.bc.ca/locals/local391/agreement.html


Scroll down to the red, to see what the government stripped from the contract. We sought to restore some of those services. They came to the table 34 times with 0% on their plate. We took job action.

Our peaceful protest was legal and included no administrative paperwork or meetings called by admin. They quickly imposed, through legislation, the stripped contract. There was no negotiated agreement.

We walked out. They took us to court. We broke the law and are still walking. They threatened criminal contempt. We get the hammer Friday.

Now the govt. has invited us to a new, improved, 'round-table' for a little talk, if we return to the classroom.

Why would they negotiate at a round table any better than they did at the table they already had?

We say, use the process thats in place and come to the table in good faith with no previous conditions.

Now the big, labour negotiator, Vince Reddy, has been invited(appointed?) to mediate this stand-off.

I want to go back to teaching but after seven years of university and ten years of teaching, I think it would be a waste of human resources if I can do no more than provide a babysitting service for your kids.

Is that what parents want?


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 09:15 AM

Call the general strike.

When the Ontario teachers were out in dispute a few years ago, they went back prematurely, and got hammered by the government in the end. Stay out until your point is made AND you've calculated success.

Rally the troops.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:49 PM

I'm a federal civil servant who has been on strike twice in five years. Both times, the Treasury Board of Canada (the formal employer) made risible offers and implied that any strike action would eventually result in back-to-work legislation, as happened in 1991. The "eventually" part is to guarantee that the union's funds are depleted.

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a Canadian union has had its strike fund frozen, and in fact it could not have been done without the contempt conviction. The BC government could not have chosen a more effective way to polarize the situation and make itself look like the Big Bad Wolf, and I hope the teachers' union can hang on long enough to reap the benefit.

At least the BC teachers are fully mobilized, and are not faced with the disheartening spectacle of scabbing colleagues while they walk the line.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:16 PM

I've often disagreed with some of your views but I'm with you on this one! Go girl!!! Make em eat dirt!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: number 6
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 06:02 PM

Good one Bassic !!! Good to see that posted on this thread.

The (accoustic) Strawbs are playing here in Saint John November 10th.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 06:22 PM

Dianavan, would that I could be there with you. I would love to walk the line, and entertain the strikers.

For this we can thank the good ole USA. As a result of the tactics of Walmart, and other big businesses, they have managed to widen the gap between rich and poor, and destroy fairly negotiated pensions and benefits. And now they are exporting this attitude to countries like Canada and Germany.

I am with Mooh and others on this. When they froze the Union treasury, they took a position against the workers and their collective bargaining representative. They took unfair advantage of their statutory powers to destroy the Union. They have no more right to the assets of the Union, than they have to your personal property.

Sometimes the law doesn't serve the people. At these times people of conscience and dedication must choose to ignore the law no matter the cost.

Call the General Strike. There should not be a car moving, a train running, a bus running, a plant operating, or a store selling until this thing is resolved.

I do so wish I could be there in person, but know that I am with you in solidarity.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 07:09 PM

A daughter-in-law retired from BC schools at the end of the last term, and is very happy to be away from a stressful career that has not helped her health.
Alberta, next door to B. C. is very right wing and anti-union. At this time, down the road from Calgary, employees are on strike against the American-owned Tyson-Lakeside meat packers, but the strike breakers are gaining access to the plant with the aid of government-requested court orders. Company men are charged with injuring the union head (they crashed his car), but I doubt the charges will be upheld.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 02:57 AM

I sure do appreciate all of the support and thank-you Big Mick for offering to play a tune for us. Yes Mick you are right, "Sometimes the law doesn't serve the people. At these times people of conscience and dedication must choose to ignore the law no matter the cost." Or as Jenny Sims (Pres. of BCTF) says, "There's a great deal of difference between breaking the law and a law designed to break you."

I have made up my mind that if we are asked to vote on returning to classes with a pay raise and promises, I will vote NO.

I know that the only solution is to repeal Bill 12 and reward all of the workers for the support they have given to us. At this point, an end to the strike should benefit everyone. I'm ready for the long haul.

If nothing else, we have shown students what solidarity is all about. We have also gained alot of respect. I'm actually hoping for a general strike. I think it will be less painful than dragging it out any longer.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 05:12 AM

Big Mick, we don't have Walmart to thank for this, we manage to embroil ourselves in this kind of shit quite well on our own and have since colonial times with the advent of the CPR, logging and coal mining.

Very few governments of this Province have ever sought equitable solutions regarding labour problems and any joy on the labour front here, has always been long coming and hard fought.

The usual mind set is that anything that is good for business is good for BC and labour concerns and rights don't figure highly in the equation.

The powers that be don't like labour getting too uppity (my gawd, they even had the audacity to form a couple of governments and what an aberration that was!) and usually take any opportunity to punish the "other side", if they don't come cap in hand.

Its made BC, one of the most politically polarized provinces in all of Canada......pity.

BTW, hang in there dianavan. Bill 12 stinks.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 08:41 AM

Metch, what I meant by that comment was that Walmart is at the front of the vanguard of a school of thought that is designed to take advantage of folks need to survive, enhance profits at the expense of quality of life for average folks. As these folks have used their wealth to lobby and weaken the labor movement, we see this school of thought spreading to the schools and municipalities. The haves continue to make war against the collectively bargained gains that working folks have made over the years. The gap continues to widen.

But everything that is old is new. The actions of these profiteers will ultimately strengthen the resolve of folks to take back some measure to control. When an employer screws with people in one place, they and all their cohorts need to feel pressure everyplace. It is a concept the Wobblies, even though it was unworkable at the time, understood well. In the age of the Internet, perhaps it is an idea whose time has come.

I believe it is time for working folks to take it to the streets. The system has become corrupted to where it works against the average worker instead of protecting them.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 08:57 AM

Social pendulums swing back and forth.

"teachers are fully mobilized, and are not faced with the disheartening spectacle of scabbing colleagues"

Yeah - think about it! What with the working conditions and pay, who would be stupid enough to want to scab against teachers? And then there's the bloody kids, nasty little trouble makers too... :-)

The Right Wingers may have blown this one, they may be too stupid to realise that teachers can;t just be rapidly replaced by any desperate unemployed untrained idiot off the street...


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 12:53 PM

Hot off the press:

BCTF publicly releasing 4-point proposal to settle teachers' strike - Lead - CKNW - 9:30am October 20, 2005

In what it's calling an unusual move, the BC Teachers Federation is publicly releasing its proposal to settle the teachers' strike.

Reporter: It's a 4-point plan that includes class size limits for grades 4 to 12, including successful integration of special needs students, staffing ratios for specialist teachers, a 3-year agreement that includes no wage increase in the first year and reasonable wage increases in the second and third.

The BC Teachers Federation is now calling on the government to make a similar compromise.

Meetings are set with facilitator Vince Ready for later today. Pickets will remain up, however, until a resolution is reached.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 03:08 PM

Foolestroupe, when I mentioned "scabbing colleagues" I meant just that -- the draining experience of seeing the people you work with every day, and not replacement workers, cross your picket line and go in to do struck work. The Public Service Alliance of Canada struck in 2001 and 2004, and both times saw a corporal's guard on the lines while many union members stayed home and a distressingly large number scabbed.

I hope the BC teachers don't have the same problem. It's really upsetting.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Auggie
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 03:40 PM

Hey Guest, Parent

My daughter wants to know where those $39K/year jobs are. She's in her first year teaching and earning $26,400 (before taxes).


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 04:34 PM

If Canada manages to reinstate worker power to equal the power of capital, would some of you like to come to England to help us achieve the same?

Don - Thatcher did worse. She sequestrated all NUM assets and charged her accountants bills to the union. Power to the people.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 07:24 PM

If Canada manages to reinstate worker power to equal the power of capital, would some of you like to come to England to help us achieve the same?

Don - Thatcher did worse. She sequestrated all NUM assets and charged her accountants bills to the union. Power to the people.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,parent
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 07:51 PM

sure; teachers spend the summer months off 'planning' how much do you have to 'plan'? isnt that what all those pro-d days are for?

if you add it up youre looking at 12weeks off with stats..
and whether its $39k (as stated in the Vancouver Sun) or $35k as stated by Dianavan, it still not bad for starting..

'businessmen who have easier jobs and get paid millions'..
sure maybe the odd CEO.. but the vast majority of business owners in Canada are small businesses and
most business owners work longer hours than any teachers I know and are lucky to take a couple of weeks off a years.

(but hey, you can start your own business and be a millionaire too..)

the fact is that a number of issues are distorted by the BCTF,
and its not just the Liberal Govt, they havent had a contract in 12years - even under the Leftist pro-labour NDP - who totally mismanaged the economy and were totally obliterated in the 2001 election. (They've only started to get back some seats in the last election)

namely, that Education funding under the Liberal govt. has decreased, whereas in fact there are 30,000 less students than 2001 and per/student funding is actually as high as it has ever been (from today's paper)..

no other province in Canada has class size as a bargaining issue.
and under the current govt. there are class size limits ie. up to 22

the real issue is the right to strike, theyve been declared an essential service, and if you feel everyone has the right to strike
then you should be prepared to watch your house burn down while the firefighters are on strike, or your car stolen while the police are on strike etc...

iF as you say, diana that the BC students are doing well(ranking thirdin nationwide tests) then whats the problem?

'you get what you pay for' not true, I came from a small European country and came to canada as a child only to see an inferior education system, (2years behind in math), gym class only once a week,when we had it every day in Europe, and I know my country didnt have a bigger education budget than Canada - they just made time for it.

Case in point as well: Americans spend more on medical care than anywhere else in the world but are ranked about 10th in the world for the actual care they get.

and yeah I dont expect teachers to be babysitters, and I expect parents to be active in their kids education.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 09:44 PM

We're holding our breath. It looks like there is some movement. We are waiting for the non-binding recommendations from the mediator. Both sides will then have to agree or disagree. Then the teachers will vote. The other unions are standing by us. The Federation of Labour has agreed not to strike in Vancouver until they know the result of our vote.

Charmion - Yes, it is very painful when a co-worker crosses the line. One person in our school did just that. She's retiring next year and didn't do it for the money but as a political statement even though she has benefitted from the Union for 30 years. She will have to live with that decision for the rest of the year. At the moment she is the object of ridicule. Some people want to have their cake and eat it too. So far, only 14 of 40,000 have crossed. We are not very militant but are quite capable of scorn. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

I have had the job of supporting staff members who are having moments of weakness. Most are hurting financially and it is very difficult. It takes a great deal of strength and moral resolve to stay out this long. Younger teachers must realize that if they cross, that action will follow them throughout their career. We are resourceful and those that have large overdrafts at low rates are loaning to those in need. When we find that anyone is in financial difficulty, they receive a belated birthday greeting and a little gift. ;>)

It is amazing how much courage we have when we all stick together and have the support of students and parents and other unions. It feels good to be able to stand up to injustice and demand what is fair.

I know in the end, we will compromise but I hope that we have demonstrated that, in unity, we have strength. I hope that other workers are watching and realize that the government is not all powerful.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 10:49 PM

Guest, parent - We cross posted.

Class size limits vary according to the grade but there is no weighting factor for students with special needs and there is no grievance procedure for teachers who are given 'more than their share'. There is alot more involved than the facts and figures given by the bean counters. Children are not beans.

No other province in Canada has had a contract legislated without negotiation.

The real issue is not the "right to strike" as you have stated. The real issue is the right to a negotiated contract.

We did not like the 'essential service' designation but we accepted it and proceeded to play according to the rules. The govt. changed the rules in the middle of the game. We did not walk out until the government refused to negotiate and once again, imposed a contract on us - a contract that had been stripped of class size and work load provisions. The real issue is standing up to injustice. Legislation is not negotiation!

I already gave a link to the contract and what has been stripped. Before you start spouting facts and figures, I suggest you read it.

... and no, pro-d days are not for lesson planning. They are for updating and developing our own education. Its our chance to learn new methods and keep abreast of changes in the provincial curriculum.

Although our students have done very well internationally, the current downward spiral we are witnessing on the front lines means that we will not be able to maintain those standards. Those students came from a system that has endured deep cuts in the last 10 years. In addition, the profession is not attracting the quality of students, at the university level, that it once did. If the educational system is not repaired immediately, the future of education is bleak indeed.

Comparing the working conditions of teachers to small business people is like comparing apples and oranges. Thats another topic entirely. If you want my job, you can have it when I retire in a couple of years. I hear they will be crying for teachers.

BTW - If you came to Canada from a 'small European country', you came for a reason and were given (on a platter) an environment that was fair and equitable. That was not given to the people of Canada by the government. It was gained by the blood, sweat and tears of our mothers and fathers in the labour movement. I'm sorry if this action by the labour unions has inconvenienced you but maybe its time you made a little sacrifice of your own.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 11:00 PM

Dear Auggie - I got those figures from the Vancouver Elementary School Teachers Assc. website. You might want to check on it. Not all districts and provinces are the same. Seems to me that I started at about $24,000.00 ten years ago. I'm not exactly sure what it is today or in your daughter's district.

Just the same, its a good second income, but its pretty hard to make ends meet if you are the only wage earner and have a loan to repay. The reason that teachers are mostly women is that men would never put up with the pay or the working conditions. We're trying to improve that. Tell her to hang in there.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 01:07 AM

Hey "Guest [right-wing!] parent"! With as much respect as I can muster [ though I suspect that your anti teacher sentiments spring from ignorance rather than malice]your poor head is apparently full of bumblebees! You sound just as the letter writer in the Vanc. "Sun" came acroos the other day when he pontificated about teachers "take home salary" being such and such, and that "before overtime is added". I expect many teachers had a laugh at the obvious complete lack of knowledge displayed--although they could be forgiven for maybe a tiny fit of anger that a supposedly reputable newspaper could knowingly publish such nonsense. Perhaps, being a right wing paper, they deliberately feed the susceptible minds of folks like yourself? A couple of snippets of info. for you---Teachers do NOT get holiday pay when they are on their "summer break"; they are literally unemployed [with no benefits!] Their "pro-days" have , since this blundering bunch were elected in B.C., been hijacked as far as subject matter is concerned. They are compelled to abide by dictated "guidelines" as set by non-teaching government bodies. My partner is a grade one teacher, with a Masters degree in Education. In her class of 26, there are SIX "special needs " kids. The assistance she gets in ensuring the continued progress of her class while trying to give the best possible to these six kids has become so minimal as to be derisory. Somebody had to take some action for the sake of the youngsters ---and, yes, for the teaching conditions--and the teachers have initiated such action. For the sake of B. C., and its children, they MUST come out of this with something other than a lasting, debilitating bitterness.
   Tonight, I was pleased to be part of a group which supplied a musical break during an inter-union meeting in our home town. I am with dianavan, my Partner, and all others who see what is lacking in B.C. schools. Hang in there, folks!!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 07:05 AM

dianavan - 19 Oct 05 - 12:16 AM & others, very informative and very well put - Good luck to yourself and your colleagues.

System over here in such a situation where essential services are involved. If a strike is called it can only last a certain time at which point the Government steps in and the matter is referred to arbitration adjudicated by independent third parties. Their decision is binding.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 07:00 PM

"The reason that teachers are mostly women is that men would never put up with the pay or the working conditions."

Tell me about THAT!


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Auggie
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:24 PM

I always thought it worked the other way around.

The reason the pay and working conditions continue to be as they are is that most teachers aren't men.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:40 PM

Anyone who tries to demonize teachers is beneath contempt.

No more replies to the troll "Parent".

Support the teachers!

Gray D


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,parent
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:57 PM

boab, hilarious that you think Im right wing.
and anti-teacher.. Ive had some very influential teachers growing up
and I dont doubt for a moment that it is hard work, and important work.
I have in fact worked for years with autistic, as well as other handicapped kids - and have pretty much seen any behaviour you can name...

I do disagree that with the way Jinny Sims the head of the BCTF has portrayed herself as some kind of Rosa Parks...
the discussion above seems to imply that teachers are having a difficult time making ends meet and have to work in the summer months to make it up... which I dont believe for a minute..

according the the BCTF's own website the Average BC teachers salary is
$60,500 per year. here
likewise a starting fulltimeteacher makes around $35,000 per year.
here
(in 2001 numbers)
Not that teachers dont deserve it, But it is pretty decent coin for 10months of the year.. plus 2 weeks at Christmas
and a week at Spring Break.

(and no I didnt think they got vacation pay in the summer)

teachers consider themselves 'professionals' but its rare to see unionized workers as 'professionals'.

my neighbour who runs a small printing business just came out of a divorce with his wife of 40 years. She's a retired teacher and makes more money on her pension than he brings home - working by the way 6days a week 7-5pm per day for the last dozen years or so,
and she wanted half the business even though she never set foot in the shop for 30 years. I digress but its hard to sympathize..

I also run a small business, and employ several people,
Im lucky if I get 2-weeks off a year. I also pay for peoples medical dental benefits, and by law pay dollar for dollar peopless cpp and workers comp and $1.40 to dollar for EI..and am an unpaid tax collector for the govt.

and get this if my business
goes under for any reason or I get sick for an extended length of time, I cant even collect the benefits I have to pay for..
thats the real world.. so get the bumblebees out of YOUR head.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:01 PM

I kept track of my hours one year. I worked 2257, and that did NOT include about 200 hours that I performed various functions for my Association. (The 2257 hour figue is accurate to within ten hours either way.) FYI.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:06 PM

See I missed the 'r' in figure.

Those hours included teaching time, marking time, planning time and extra-curricular time. FYI.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:43 PM

Starting salaries in Alberta, 2005
4 years education- $45,000 approx. (no longer hiring in this scale)

6 years education- $48,000 approx. (Master's degree has been required for the last two years)

For the first year or two, a new probationary teacher may find only a fractional job available (e. g. 0,6; but often she is able to find a 0.4 position at another school).


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 11:06 PM

Forgot to give the Alberta website- Scroll down to graphs for provincial comparisons. Note that with 11 years experience and the now required Master's degree, a teacher receives $78,000 in compensation.

Alberta Teachers Salaries

For comparison- Starting salaries for B. S. Electrical, Mechanical or Computer Engineering (4-year education) approx. $50,000-52,000 in 2003. Many, however, obtain a M. S. degree before entering the work force.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 01:51 AM

Q, something else that might put wages in further perspective regarding teacher's salaries across Canada, is that, as of the 2nd quarter of 2005, the average price of a single detatched bungalow in Vancouver was a whopping $481,667.

This is more than $100,000 greater than a comparable house in Toronto, almost twice as much as a house in Calgary, about 3 times the price of a house in Halifax and more than 4 times the price of one in Moncton, New Brunswick.

Or to view it from a different angle, in order to live in the vicinity of one's workplace on a starting teacher salary in equivalent accommodation, across Canada, in Moncton NB, it will cost 3.4 X your wages, in Halifax NS 4.5X, in Calgary Alta 5.6X, Toronto 9.7X and in Vancouver BC, 12.7 X your wages. Of course, I doubt many on a single income, comparable to a teacher's, would qualify to buy a house in Vancouver, nor is it in the economic realm of a lot of other professions either.

When this current crop of BC teachers retires in a few years, I can't envision many wanting to "man" the battlements in their place, given how they are treated as a profession and the cost of living, particularly on the south coast.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 03:56 AM

Funny you should mention this:

One of the non-binding recommendations from Vince Ready is that we accept an equalization of salaries, throughout B.C.

That means that the nearly $3,500.00 in my lost wages and strike pay(as a result of my protest), will go to pay the salary increase of my colleagues in rural areas - even though their cost of living is much less.

Where is the justice in that?

It will also pay for long term disabilility (which not many qualify for) and an increase in wages for teachers on call.

Everything else is a promise to consult. (We know what that means!)

Altogether, the govt. will put about one million dollars into the system and our lost wages equal almost exactly the same amount.

There is exactly 0 in those recommendations that will directly benefit me and my students. The primary teachers of Vancouver are, once again, subsidizing the system.

We will probably vote this week-end to accept these recommendations because we have been away from our students too long.

Personally, I will vote no. I'm all for sacrificing for the greater good but I contend that the government has not contibuted any more to this settlement than it has cost me, personally. No loss to them, big loss to me.

Like I say, the vote will probably be 'yes' and the losers are not only the Vancouver primary teachers and their students, but also the parents and other labour unions who have supported us.

I am hoping for a 'no' vote because I think the only thing that will make this govt. put additional money into education is a general strike. I honestly think such a punitive govt. deserves to be brought to their knees by the workers of this province.

If they can do this to us, they can do this to you.

I will guarantee that if I have to go back into the classroom on Monday, my caseload of fifty will be off-loaded onto the classroom teachers. I refuse to try to make up for the defecits in a system that is broken. That means that the higher-end of primary children needing learning assistance will no longer be given additional support. These are usually the kids who are getting very little help at home for one reason or another.

It breaks my heart.

"There you go honey, sink or swim."


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 02:31 PM

My figures were meant to show that salaries were lower in B. C. than in neighboring Alberta.
As Metchosin says, there is no way that a starting teacher, or one with experience, can qualify for a house. Decent apartments and living costs plus Canada's high taxes make it difficult for a teacher to save towards qualifying for a home.
The same is true for trained nurses, and we have lost many recent graduates to the States.

Unless the teachers are part of a two-income family, a home ownership is not an option.

Something constructive must be done for special-needs children. Dumping them into the classroom with normal children saves money, but is short-changes both them and those with normal abilities.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 02:46 PM

The union has suggested that we accept the non-binding recommendations. We vote tomorrow.

The Primary Teachers of Vancouver have definitely subsidized this job action which does not benefit our students or us.

The union has let us down, the govt. has let us down and the administrators have let us down. I will reduce my caseload by half and return those children to their classroom teachers. I cannot shoulder the responsibility alone.

Its better to be able to instruct 25 students than to babysit 50.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,parent
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 03:20 PM

who says you should be guaranteed a detached single family house?
housing costs have gone up for everyone, and most people in Europe
cant even think about owning a detached house, and yet they still enjoy a good life.

the high cost of housing is due to a growing population and other factors - and Vancouver is one of the most desirable places to live anywhere.

according to statisticscanada.ca the average household income in Canada
is $64,900 (I tried to make a link but it didnt work) just go in and type household income.

so given a household of two teachers - and given the average
$60,500 according to the bctf site that household would be close to double the average Can. household income. They shouldnt have a problem getting a mortgage for a house in Vancouver.
thats all hypothetical of course but Im sure people will say what abou t single income teachers or ones that are starting out .. but again you could say that about other occupation.

anyway, having said all the above, Iam no fan of Gordon Campbell and the Liberals, and believe the BCTF had to do something which it did.
Even if the right to strike was taken away they did it anyway, probably calculating that a fine will be covered by the strike fund
- Im sure half a million sounds like a lot, but it could have been per day..


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 04:46 PM

Well, guest parent, why waste 6 years on university training if you don't have goals such as home ownership, a family and education for your children? Just go to work for Walmart, City Sanitary Engineers, etc.
Europe ain't North America; routes to home ownership are different (The figures I find, however, indicate a high ownership percentage in many European countries, even if not detached).

Average household income in Canada, as elsewhere, includes those at the bottom of the food chain. It is meaningless (or should be) when applied to people with a Master's degree.

Statistics for B. C.: For those who like to quote them, without adding necessary qualifiers (1991; Canadian Census figures for B. C. out-of-date).
Householders owning own home- 64%
Householders age 25-34 owning own home- 14% (was 20% in 1981)
www.bcstats.gov.bc.ca/data/cen91/issue09.pdf

More random statistics (meaningless without income, loan, living cost, government policy, etc., etc., qualifiers)-
Home ownership Ireland- 80% (cost av. 221000 euros)
New Zealand- 67%
Taiwan- 60%
(Official report, tabled in Scotland, in a report on loans to students)


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 05:40 PM

guest, parent, what I was trying to demonstrate was the deep disparity in living costs from area to area in this country, not the right to own a detached dwelling.

If it would make you feel better, we could just as easily contrast the price of a 10 X 12 flop house room in Vancouver's east end with a comparable housing unit on the east coast, if you think that might be a more relevant in the socio-economic scheme of things, relative to teachers as a profession.

Its ironic that in some parts of this country, that if you cannot afford to buy a house to live in, you can buy a house speculatively and rent it to yourself, thus assuring low rent and a modest profit for yourself as your own ruthless landlord....And you get your dummy tenant to pay off your mortgage. LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Auggie
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 06:51 PM

Oh Q! In our district, common sense is not allowed. Your comments about short changing special needs students by dumping them into a classroom full of "normal" kids would instantly classify you as a reprobate of the worst degree (which is something I suspect your not), at least in the eyes of our local school board.

Our county school boards, in their infinite wisdom, dismantled a long standing county wide program for special needs students, pronouncing instead, that these children's needs (and the needs of "normal" children as well) would be better served by mainstreaming as many as possible back into conventional classrooms. The reasoning? Both groups of students would better learn to socialize with each other, the affixing of damaging, artificial labels would be avoided, and oh yeah, it would save money. Alot of money. Any arguement to the contrary usually devolved to "separate but equal" (i.e. if that wasn't OK in the 50's with people of differing color, why is it OK now with people of differing intellect?). The fact that that analogy is specious notwithstanding, our classrooms of up to 30 students now often have 3, 4, or more highly disruptive individuals who consume a disproportionate amount of time.

Anyone who finds this change of benefit to either group of students has spent precious little time in the classroom.
It does save a boatload of money at first glance. Still, if you're paying less but receiving less, have you really saved anything?


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:45 PM

Rant alert- Yeah, the same moronic mainstreaming happened here in Alberta. The stress of trying to teach under these conditions led to some of our best retiring at the first (almost) affordable moment or going into private schools. A result is the rapid growth of private schooling, used by those who can afford it.
Of course with the separate system here, catholic students are separated from the protestant, non-religious and other category, and the Muslims and Hebrews also are becoming largely independent of the two main streams.

A daughter of mine is starting a private school in the small B. C. center in which she lives. Fernie already has one, and parents in several other towns are thinking about them.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 10:04 PM

I was and am an advocate of mainstreaming with support.

Unfortunately when they mainstreamed the students with special needs they didn't transfer the money or the support. Now they are often sitting in classrooms with untrained support (babysitters) and there are often no resources or materials appropriate to their needs.

Most classroom teachers are trained only to meet the needs of the average student. Of course, there were always those that needed a little extra help but now those kids don't get the attention they deserve because of the programming needs of the special needs students.

The trend towards private schools is exactly what the government wants. They underfund the system and burden the teachers with a job thats impossible to do with the resources available. The govt. is destroying public education so that it will be easier to privatize. Please don't play into their hands. Pressure your govt. to provide the necessary funds so that we can continue to provide equal educational opportunies for all of our children.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 02:50 AM

In Australia, we have a fairly large private school segment. They have convinced the Govt that they should have a share of taxpayer's funds too - so it isn't cheaper in the long run...


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 03:43 AM

The taxpayers of BC also fund accredited private schools as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: ossonflags
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:43 AM

More power to our comrades in BC on strike

And a message to the begrudgers ;

"If you don't stand for something you will stand for anything"

Yours in solidarity

Mick McGarry


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: GUEST,p
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:14 PM

why do you need a masters degree or phd to teach grade 3?


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:15 PM

Ya don't need a Master's or PhD to teach Grade 3.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:24 PM

Peace, new hires (for the last two years) in Alberta must have 6 years training to teach in the system- master's equivalent. Teachers in the system before this change may teach with 4 years training but they are on a different schedule unless they upgrade by taking additional academic work. See graphs of these schedules linked 21 Oct 05, 11:06 pm.

The list of Alberta charter and private schools runs to 16 pdf pages, most of them eligible for funding. Grades PC to grade 12. Teachers must meet the provincial requirements.

Of course Alberta also has home schooling- "the fastest growing education trend."


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:31 PM

Pardon me, Q. Thought that was a blanket statement to do with all schools. Pardon me.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 08:39 AM

Thank you, teachers, for standing up for the rights of all of us.
At 5 am BC time the radio news just said the teachers voted 77% to accept . . . what? A vague undertaking on the government's part to consult? But compared to scuttling back to work at the first crack of the whip, er, I mean the first rustle of an injunction, this counts as a victory. I was talking to a young teacher on the line on Friday who, even after the gutting of the health sector contracts, hadn't realized how contemptuous of workers' rights the Campbell Liberals really are. She realizes it now, and is appalled that she and her colleagues have sacrificed so much to achieve a merely moral victory. Twas ever thus though--workers' gains are paid for a hundred times over by their sacrifices. A century ago the Vancouver Island coal miners had to strike for months and stand up to armed militia after the company refused to hear their safety committee. "Our union miners faced guns and jail/Hundreds of us were held without bail," goes the song about that dispute.
BTW--the (un)official folk song of the teachers' strike is Woody Guthrie's "Pretty Boy Floyd". During the debate on Bill 12, opposition MLA Corky Evans sang the line about getting robbed with a fountain pen on the floor of the legislature.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 09:21 AM

I have used that line many times as I tried to explain how the new robbers operate.

Bless you, brothers and sisters.

All the best,

Mick Lane
Union Organizer


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 11:01 PM

I'm back at school and glad to be there. Yes, once again, we paid for the gains out of our own wages but...

It was a victory for workers everywhere and we are very proud to have been the group who said, enough is enough! I really appreciate the supportive comments here and the support of union members everywhere. There are many contracts coming up for negotiation and I'm sure Campbell will not try to bully us by legislation in the future. He knows now that the unions are standing shoulder to shoulder.

We have also gained the respect and support of our students and parents and that is a victory in itself. Thats the main reason we decided to return to work. We want the parents on our side. We want parents to listen to us and realize that we really do care about the quality of education. Any improvement in our working conditions is also and improvement in their child's learning environment.

I truly hope that our victory signals a return to the rights of working people everywhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 11:04 PM

"I truly hope that our victory signals a return to the rights of working people everywhere."

Amen to that, Dianavan. Glad for y'all.


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Subject: RE: BS: On strike and in contempt of court
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 11:23 PM

Kim Petersen says it better than I do:

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Oct05/Petersen1022.htm

When people stand together, they can fight unjust laws and unjust governments. They can overturn corporate agendas and set us back on the path to achieving true democracy.

If anything, I hope we have given people hope.


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