BS: Iraq Elections

Subject: BS: Iraq Elections
From: DougR
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:10 PM

I thought, since no one else has mentioned it, I would call to everyone's attention that the Iraqis just had an election on their new proposed Constitution.

The extreme violence that was predicted by CNN and all the other left-wing press did not materialize, and early reports are that the Iraqis, including the Sunnis, turned out in record numbers ...even greater perhaps than the previous election.

Don't know if the election has been reported in your newspapers or on your radios or televisions. You can get a good, fair report on the Fox News Network if it is available.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: mg
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:40 PM

There was a beautiful picture this morning in the oregonian of a woman with her brand new baby voting from her hospital bed...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 03:46 PM

Recent report.

I suppose this heralds troop departure fairly soon, then?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: DougR
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 04:05 PM

Hopefully. But not likely Peace. When the Iraqi army is up to speed, then withdrawal.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 05:02 PM

In Disneyland...."the beat goes on"....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 07:12 PM

Todays referendum on the Iraqi "constitution" is a smokescreen.
The so called constitution is in fact a cynical ploy by the US and UK governments to partition Iraq, marginalise the Sunni minority and appease the Shi'ites and Kurds.

There is also a more sinister side to the whole charade. That the US and UK are actually promoting civil war in Iraq; which would allow cover for the invaders to intensify hostilities against the Sunni.

The "constitution" was designed to legitimise the occupation and hide the real reason our troops are in Iraq.
Control of the oil supply ....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 08:22 PM

This follows the same storyline as the Katrina aftermath.

Media builds it up to be worse than it actually is....

Media is proved wrong....

Media is proven to be the left wing propaganda wing....

The American people once again sees the media for what it really is....


akenaton's "smokescreen".....

But this time instead of trying to implicate the right.....

all it's done is prove the left is truly out of touch.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 08:44 PM

I have no need to implicate the right.
Bush and Blair stand exposed as warmongers and liars. Only the most rabid or dense still cling to whatever excuse Washington and Whitehall are using this week.

As Blair said recently "the world is changing" The West will become more overt in their manipulation of other regimes as the search for energy reserves becomes more desperate.

Look out for action against left wing regimes in Latin America, under the "smokescreen" of the "war on terror".

Past American interference in South America is well documented, but don't be surprised to see open military intervention in the near future ....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: GUEST,The Duck Flies in Circles
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 09:45 PM

"Media is proven to be the left wing propaganda wing...."

If that were the case, how come all I hear is RIGHT wing propaganda?

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 15 Oct 05 - 10:56 PM

Aye, Doug. After the gigantic mess this wonderful "coalition of the willing" so predictably made in Iraq, they are frantically trying to "guide' the political current the US way, and not making much headway at all. Even if they have managed to keep enough of the Sunnis away from the polls with their latest "assault against insurgents" in the north west, and this "constitution" is democratically [???] approved, the resistance to foreign occupation will continue, and will almost certainly be as intense as ever. The "coalition" will, down the way a little, end up being a permanent garrison of US military [barring a change of heart and government in the USA.]. The abominable gang in the pentagon has no intention of EVER leaving Iraq. The Iraqis, with all their desperate efforts, haven't got the power [not one measly WMD---]to oust the might arrayed against them---but the American people do have that power, and the signs are at last pointing in the right direction [ oooooh--is that blasphemy?]Tell ye what Doug---when the days arrive that we see on a regular basis columns of armour---tanks, artillery, even aircraft---manned exclusively by IRAQIS being deployed and used all over Iraq [if such a country is allowed to survive]then I will begin to doubt the rightess[more blasphemy] of my convictions.
And if your source of news is FOX, then in my heart I must go a fair way towards forgiving you for your view of the world----

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 03:46 AM

Akeneaton,
If the smokescreen is obvious to you but not to the people who actually live there, how pathetically naive, gullible and stupid they all must be compared to you great wisdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 04:25 AM

Ake - I think Venezuela should be especially alert.

I don't know if they have any terrorists but they do have oil and Chavez is definitely not in the hip pocket of Bush.

Keith -

It is always more 'obvious' from the outside looking in.

The people who actually live there (or anywhere) are very vulnerable to 'smokescreens'. Just as vulnerable as some British and U.S. citizens. The War on Terror was a very good smokescreen for securing U.S. oil interests in Iraq. The people of Iraq had absolutely no say in the matter. Whether or not the new   constitution will lead to peace or civil war is anybody's guess.

Wouldn't it be great if wisdom were a pre-requisite for politicians?

Deception seems to be the name of the game and it will take a very well educated, interested and involved population to be able to see all of the issues clearly.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 06:52 AM

I am sure most Americans would dispute that the likes of me knew better than the like of you what was wrong with US government.

To say that, from thousands of miles away, you and Ake have a better understanding than the Iraqui people themselves, sounds like arrogant racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 09:53 AM

There was a beautiful picture this morning in the oregonian of a woman with her brand new baby voting from her hospital bed...mg

Less widely reported was that baby's vote cancelled mama's!

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Peace
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:00 AM

Well, it's business as usual again.

One,


two,

three . . . with apologies to Country Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 10:10 AM

Well, actually, the media wasn't the ones who predicted violence -- the military was. CNN (and Fox and others) reported what the military had predicted.

And that's also why the security was so tight.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 01:46 PM

Aye, robomatic----and how keen on the new "democracy" would those little kids so recently slaughtered in one of the US actios against "terrorists" in the north west have been?? Auntie BBC had the report on them from a local hospital---"eleven civilians, several of them children". BUT ---within a very short time the "several children" had been altered, in that same report, to "one ambulance driver". I wonder who leaned on the BBC??

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: DougR
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 03:08 PM

Akenaton: what you been smoking mon?

Boab: and the BBC never reports a false story, right?

Dianavan: you going to drag out that tired old argument that the U. S. and GB want to steal the Iraqi oil? The elected representatives in Iraq will control Iraqi oil. That's what bothers the Sunnis so much. Previously, the Baath Party made up primarily by Sunnis controled it. Saddam was a great watch dog for the Iraqi people wasn't he? We want the oil but we will pay for it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 03:18 PM

Keith - I never said that I, "have a better understanding than the Iraqui people themselves."

If you disagree with what I have to say, state your opinion but don't put words in my mouth or resort to name calling.

The War on Terror is a smokescreen for securing U.S. oil interests in the Middle East. That smokescreen was designed to cloud the reasoning of people in the U.S. and around the world. It is no reflection on the Iraqi people or the people of Venezuela.

It is obvious to me that you are the one who is having a little problem with ideas that aren't pro-British. Thats called ethno-centrism not racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 04:07 PM

Dianavan
Sorry if I misunderstood.
You said
"It is always more 'obvious' from the outside looking in.

The people who actually live there (or anywhere) are very vulnerable to 'smokescreens'"

You seemed to be saying that outsiders (you) can see through the smokescreen but they (poor dears) can not.

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 04:24 PM

In truth, dianavan, we can take that back even further. It was U. S. oil interests in the Middle East that played a large part of making the U. S. a target for Middle Eastern terrorists in the first place. Another part was the callous disregard that the U. S. shows for the fate of the Palestinians and our support of the Israeli hard-liners. That, and European and American arrogance, interference, and exploitation that has been going on in the region for many generations.

The idea that the terrorists are terrorists merely because they "hate our way of life" shows either naiveté or outright deception. It just ain't so. A terrorist is someone who is angry, feels powerless, and decides to take drastic action. There will always be terrorists, as long as we keep our current policies in the Middle East. This does not, in any way, excuse the taking of innocent lives, but in the minds of the terrorists (not particularly deep thinkers), since the United States is a democracy and the American people elect the government, then it stands to reason that the American people are to blame for the policies of the American government.

The terrorists may have a point. We might want to think about that come election time.

Terrorists can never be defeated. Kill one, and two more spring up. To declare a "war on terrorism" is to commit ourselves to a perpetual state of war (Ferengi rule of acquisition:   war is good for business). The way to free ourselves from the threat of terrorism is to change the circumstances that created it in the first place. As someone said recently, "Terrorists breed like mosquitoes in a swamp of oppression and injustice. The only way to get rid of terrorists is to drain the swamp that breeds them in the first place." And that doesn't mean "go in and blow it up." That just creates more terrorists.

Washington State Congressional Representative Jim McDermott (remember him, Doug?) raised an interesting question some time back, as the Iraqi war was beginning. "It will be interesting to see," he said, "if the Bush administration will accept it if the Iraqis chose a form of government that the Bush administration doesn't want them to have."

That's still a good question.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 05:16 PM

Well said Don...
I believe we have settled for a perpetual state of war.
We have no option if we wish to continue with the lifestyle we've become accustomed to.
The system requires energy and as we are now in competition with the developing world, we are going to have to take that energy by any means at our disposal.
Even if that involves slaughtering millions.

Doug R says we want to pay for the oil, but if that oil is in the hands of people who dont want to sell to us, does he think we'll just walk away. Dream on Doug, the people who run the Western capitalism are hard as nails, and will fight till the last drop of our blood before they allow their golden goose to perish.

My idea of the future is grim. Perpetual war and human suffering, a world divided by greed.
In the future I dont think the powerful will make any pretense of democracy, but will install puppet regimes to supply their needs.

No matter what Keith says the political machinations in Iraq have nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with factional power.
The "smokescreen" is to obscure our view not the Iraqi peoples view.
The Shi'ite mullahs and the Kurdish leaders know very well whats going on and will make sure their followers do exactly as they're told.
Before long any attempt by our leaders to hide the reasons for their actions will be dropped, and we will be told that we must protect our way of life at all costs...anything will be permissable ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Iraq Elections
From: dianavan
Date: 16 Oct 05 - 05:50 PM

Keith - I'm sorry if the statements I made were obscure. I think
that Don and Ake have expressed themselves better than me.

"The "smokescreen" is to obscure our view not the Iraqi peoples view.
The Shi'ite mullahs and the Kurdish leaders know very well whats going on and will make sure their followers do exactly as they're told."

"...it stands to reason that the American people are to blame for the policies of the American government."

Of course if you take my words out of context, you can twist them anyway you want.