National Festival England 2006.2007

Subject: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Adrianl
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:24 PM

I received this today from John Heydon and I guess others have as well. He asked for it to be circulated

Start quote

National Folk Festival still homeless – we need your help!



I'm very sorry to say that we still haven't found somewhere for the National Folk Festival to be held. The search is proving much harder than we originally thought. We had high hopes of several venues, most recently one in Oxford, but none of them proved to have what we need. The consequence of still being homeless in October 2005 is that

there will not be a National in 2006.



I am obviously very sad that we can't run next year and am concerned about finding somewhere for 2007.



We need your help to find a new venue.



It wouldn't take you long to contact one or 2 venues, but the organising team just hasn't the time to contact lots of places. Please help us by contacting venues you can think of - you know broadly what we need;

availability for a weekend around Eastertide – and long term availability. Ideally 2nd weekend in April unless it's Easter.
accommodation for minimum 200 single bedrooms and permission for double use of about half of the rooms (maybe too much to ask). Dining room for 300.
a large bar which would be the hub of the other events and provide real ale!
accessibility from all over the country (car parking, good road access, trains & airport fairly near if possible)
entertainment rooms for up to 400 with something like a hall for 200+ and two large rooms to replace the SCR and Committee room, plus smaller rooms. We might have to rethink the programming around a different configuration of rooms, but we need to be able to entertain that number. Also somewhere for the craft fair and registration.
ideally potential for campervans and camping
the potential to expand (i.e. we mustn't fill the place to bursting!)
accommodation shouldn't be hugely expensive (but we're realistic)


If you can think of somewhere that might be a possibility, please make initial enquiries and see if it could be a goer, and then get back to me. We could give good references from the past 23 years at Sutton Bonington.



I have looked at various venues in a really optimistic spirit, but so far have not found anywhere which would be a possibility. 200+ bedrooms is actually quite a large number. Maybe we need to think creatively!



We really need your help to find our home for 2007 urgently before it gets booked up!



Please also feel free to forward this e-mail to anyone else you think may be interested, or able to help.



with best wishes,



John Heydon

End quote

Responses to John Heydon not me.

Adrian

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Adrianl
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:44 PM

I forgot to put John Heydon's contact details

Haddenham Ceilidhs

Adrian

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: danensis
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 03:49 PM

How many bedrooms are there at Northern College? It doesn't seem to say on their website.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 06:39 PM

It is a very long time, for a variety of reasons, since I have been to the National (indeed when I was last there it wasn't even called that, and it wasn't at Sutton Bonington). But I know from various people who have that the loss of this facility is a severe blow. Thus, although it is absolutely none of my business, yet I still wonder if you are maybe barking up the wrong tree in seeking residential accommodation which is (a) expensive and (b) much harder to come by because of the shift in academic terms.

I have in mind a number of leisure centres which have grounds suitable for camping and which also have cheap lodgings (like Backpackers and the YHA) nearby, in which other festivals have been held successfully. Of course, everyone isn't absolutely 'on the spot', but near enough. Instead of employing caterers in hall, you get the scouts to make breakfast in the grounds, after which nobody will need to eat till evening when a pizza would suffice, delivered if people want. Or a kebab van or several could call . . .

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 06:57 PM

Have Canterbury Christchurch University and Nottingham University been tried?

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 05 - 07:24 PM

I'd missed the news about Sutton Bonington not being available any more. That's a real shame - it gave the National a different feeling from any other festival, and I think that was important.

The residential quasi-academic aspect of it was a big part of that, with the communal eating and so forth. I woldn't want all festiovals to be like that, but having one that kicked off the year, that was good.

I hope they manage to recreate it at some other place. Perhaps another agricultural college could be able to help out - for example Writtle in Essex (which would be great for me since it's only a few miles away.) A favourable reference from Sutton Bonington might be helpful here...

But it's really sad to say goodbye to Sutton Bonington - especially that corridor with the a common room at either end, and a late night singaround in both of them, and you'd be making up your mind which one you'd go into, and you'd know that either way it'd be a cracker, and either way you'd miss something classic.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 07:03 AM

Have Canterbury Christchurch University and Nottingham University been tried?

Don't know about CCU being tried but Sutton Bonnington is part of Nottingham University, so the change in terms there (academic rather than financial I mean) would probably have been reflected across all the Campus sites.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: MBSLynne
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 07:29 AM

Well I hope that somewhere can be found in the Midlands again. Moving it to the extremes of the country makes it a lot further away for an awful lot of people.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: GUEST,barnetfolkbabe
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 07:56 AM

University of Warwick is the best University venue I know of (and I organise conferences for a living so I've been to a few...) The dedicated conference centre rooms are quite pricey but the student rooms are cheaper.

Otherwise, Northampton University is good but I don't know about the space.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: GUEST,Ed Fordham
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 08:34 AM

Sad news about the loss of venue.

With the Lancaster Maritime Festival also being under threat it seems the choice of April / Easter Festivals is diminishing.

At least we still have the Oxford Folk Festival and the Gosport & Fareham Easter Festival in Hampshire to look forward to next April.

I know The Barden of England is a regular at the latter so maybe some people from the National will try somewhere different next Spring.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 12:38 PM

If you can think of somewhere that might be a possibility, please make initial enquiries and see if it could be a goer, and then get back to me. We could give good references from the past 23 years at Sutton Bonington.

Can I draw people´s attention to this bit of the post? It looks as though 2006 is gone (and it would certainly be too late to book some artists now, BUT - I shall be checking Sheffield University out when I get back from Spain.

Northern College looks good too - though the bar was only tiny as remember. Another place but without enough bedrooms I guess would be Wortley Hall.

Best regards,

Dave

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: JamesBerriman
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 03:28 PM

It would be good to see the National back where it started - at Keele University.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 04:03 PM

Please note the point that the National is looking for a reasonably long term venue.

Sutton Bonington (which was ideal for many reasons including location and facilities) isn't available for the National in April any more because the students no longer have an Easter break and the accommodation isn't available for "conferences". Is this going to be true of university / college facilities generally, and is there going to be any point looking for another similar educational establishment?

Sutton Bonington did suggest that the festival move to August - but of course there are too many other festivals to go to in August. Aren't leisure centre type facilities going to be pretty well booked up in the Easter holidays, though?

Maybe make the festival a bit earlier and hope to find a hotel that does good out of season deals? (Like the Voice Tours.)


Kitty

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 04:06 PM

There's probably been a thread about this, but if so I missed it. What is the problem that's lost us Sutton Bonington? Is it just a matter some dates being unavailable because of changes in term times? In which case, and Kevin Sheils said, it's liable to effect all university campuses; in which case wouldn't a shift of dates be an option?

An alternative to a university might be a holiday camp, out of high season. I once went to a folk festival as Butlins, and it wasn't a bad venue. Holiday camps have quite a lot in common with universities really for this kind of event. Hi de Hi, campers.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 04:07 PM

There's probably been a thread about this, but if so I missed it. What is the problem that's lost us Sutton Bonington? Is it just a matter some dates being unavailable because of changes in term times? In which case, as Kevin Sheils said, it's liable to effect all university campuses; in which case wouldn't a shift of dates be an option?

An alternative to a university might be a holiday camp, out of high season. I once went to a folk festival as Butlins, and it wasn't a bad venue. Holiday camps have quite a lot in common with universities really for this kind of event. Hi de Hi, campers.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Blowzabella
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 04:42 PM

I know that Lancaster University / St Martins also used to have rooms available in the Easter hols, but tis stopped a couple of years ago - for the same reason - they now charge students for the full period and so they (ungrateful so and so's) see no reason to move their stuff out in the hols (please read the previous sentence with tongue in cheek). Consequently, the Uni's have their income from the rooms already, and have no need to clean them before or after visiting guests have...er...visited. I would imagine it's pretty widespread, if not pan-demic!

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 05:19 PM

That would imply that the right date for booking rooms might be in the summer holidays, when all the final year students have given up their rooms.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Surreysinger
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 07:30 PM

Not all universities are unavailable over Easter - I've contacted our local one here in Guildford, and they do have accommodation for the period in question, but can't offer caravan/camping facilities. (Obviously not Midlands based, but near two major airports and travel facilities - my feeling is that ANYWHERE is better than nowhere) Details have been passed back to the National Office.I've also had a suggestion from a friend for University College Worcester,but their website details suggest it may not be big enough (I've also asked for details from them).

The suggestion that someone made about going to other festivals just wouldn't apply for me. The National is completely in a field of it's own, and is the one festival in the year that I have never missed since I first attended in 1990 unless something got in the way (in the one case where that happened, it was an operation the week beforehand).For some reason I also feel that the time of year is important - although there are other festivals before it, I have always felt that it kicked the festival period off.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 05 - 07:51 PM

Here's what Google threw up when I typed in conference facilities + Easter - there look like a number of possibilities there. For example Norwich - "200 rooms during the Easter vacation".

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: nutty
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 02:28 AM

It may be a bit far North but York is definitely accessible. This conference park seems to have ample facilities.

click here

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 07:53 AM

Nutty - more to the point, do you know if it's available at the required time, or whether the institution would be prepared to take the Festival on? That was the whole point of John Heydon's original memo to people - asking that initial legwork be done to seek out anything that might be a goer, then passing details on to the National organisers to follow up.

See the original posting which quoted this
"If you can think of somewhere that might be a possibility, please make initial enquiries and see if it could be a goer, and then get back to me. We could give good references from the past 23 years at Sutton Bonington."

FolkieDave also pointed this bit out in an earlier post.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: nutty
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 10:55 AM

Thank you for pointing that out Surreysinger but if you had bothered to follow the link I provided you would see that the venue fulfilled all the criteria asked for.
I do not consider that I have all required info or status to do any further negotiating . That surely is up to the festival organisers.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Adrianl
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:36 PM

I don't believe that John Heydon is a member of Mudcat so information needs to be sent to John Heydon (via the conatct details on my second posting). And as he says in the email I quoted the more information and checking we can do the better as he says "the organising team just hasn't the time to contact lots of places"



Adrian

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Tyke
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:43 PM

Butlins

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:57 PM

I have sent an email enquiry to the University of Hertfordshire.

Would a public school with dormitories be of any use?

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:09 PM

yeh I went to a folk festival at Butlins. There was a piece of toast and marmalade under the bed, and I don't think it was left by the occupant directly before me.

Butlins might have been all right after a few years in Stalag Luft whatever - but despite the great auditoriums, PA systems etc - no nay never, as the folk song says. I don't think anybody can actually enjoy themselves in such primitive surroundings.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Tyke
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 01:53 PM

Eaton

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Tyke
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 02:16 PM

"Free Toast"

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 04:46 PM

I don't think anybody can actually enjoy themselves in such primitive surroundings.

I tend to doubt if too many festival hardened fokies would agree with that. Butlins seemed fair enough to me when we went there for a festival a few years back. Perhaps it was the same one. I didn't check the floor for toast, I admit. If I'd found some, I'd probably just have thought "Well, that goes to show there can't be too many mice around."

If Butlins is "too primitive" than you can definitely write off any boarding schoools. Maybe that's why I found Butlins fair enough, since I went to one...Quite good preparation for a POW camp they always say. As is only right and proper in any residential establishment of that sort.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Surreysinger
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 06:35 PM

"If Butlins is "too primitive" than you can definitely write off any boarding schoools"
Sorry McGrath - I have to disagree. I think it rather depends on the school in question. I go to an International Summer School of Music at a public boarding school in Dorset, who I shall be contacting tomorrow morning (having just realised that it's worth giving it a go), and their accommodation and facilities are fantastic. Just depends on the school. For what it's worth, should anyone not want to duplicate effort I've now contacted the University of Surrey, University College Worcester and Royal Holloway College in Egham. The hunt continues.

As to your earlier comments regarding not having info or status to do any negotiating, Nutty, I think John Heydon's e-mail made it quite plain that the National organisers need whatever help we can give them in doing the initial legwork.There's no question of negotiating with the organisations - just seeing whether they have the facilities and availability required, and then passing the details on to him if it looks a feasible prospect. My e-mails to the organisations I've contacted have made it quite plain that I am not an organiser - merely enquiring about whether the institution would (a) be able to give the Festival a home in April 2007, (b) has the necessary facilities and (c) providing a link to the National's website and a few details of the type of events that the Festival hosts, so that they are aware of the Festival's good standing etc, together with a copy of the various points made in John's e-mail.

Obviously the more of us that contact institutions that we know of around the country, the more likely it is that something (I really do hope) may come out of it.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:48 PM

when I did my OU degree I did a nice summer school at Stirling University in the halls of residence. They were round a Loch. I bet theres some similar nice places in England - some other students told me York was very nice. Plus universities have got nice auditoriums lecture theatres and the like.

My neice was at Exeter University - that had a some good halls of residence - although Exeter is very popular as a location for English as a Foreign Language courses in the summer.

Anyway the Butlins festival I went to was in Bognor and it featured jazz as well as folk and country.

Wild Bill Davis was a really old jazz trumpeter (Eddie Condon, Bud Freeman era) he got up for his first number and he said, I wondered about the English sense of humour - then they showed me my chalet, and suddenly I got it....they thought I was staying there!

all the best

Big Al

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 08:24 PM

My implication wasn't that boarding schools wouldn't be quite adequate, but that Butlins would probably be as well. It's some time since I've been to either kind of establishment, and I suspect they are both likely to be more comfortable these days. (But didn't really need to be.)

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 04:19 AM

Hertfordshire University booked both weekends either side of Easter and seemingly not v. interested as have not bothered to tell me about the weekends either side of that.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 04:36 AM

I am asking my old school.

It has a 100 acre campus about 15 miles north of London. Plenty of space for camping. Some very nice rooms - the School House dining hall was used in the film "If", and the gym in the film "Tamahine". The school gates were used for a Cadbury's drinking chocolate ad (Hot chocolate, drinking chocolate...)

Outside caterers could always provide a bar if the current 6th form bar is too small.

I am not sure about the accommodation, though. There are the studies in each house, but I don't suppose 200 is anywhere near on the cards. Other than that there are dormitories.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 06:21 AM

Try Most Universities as they still have a break at Easter! Or failing that a School.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 08:30 AM

was that the horrific flogging scene in If.....?

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: danensis
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 11:05 AM

Well I never knew Google had a sense of humour, but the advert at the end of this thread reads:

Free venue finding search
Conferences/Meetings/Events Find the ideal venue for your event

UK Venue Finders
Conference, Meetings & Special Events 02089649661 Nicolet Events


I'm sure they're not the only ones.

I've organised lots of conferences in the past, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do all the legwork for me. I would have thought a standard letter to all the accommodation offices would come up with some candidate. Failing that there's always the showground at Stoneleigh. When I stay there its in a sort of concrete cowshed with two bunkbeds and a wash basin. Great place to make moosic.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:01 AM

Ashby School, in Ashby de la Zouch has a boarding section during term time...don't know how big. And there is Grace Dieu Manor Prep School...surrounded by fields, so should be good for camping too. Neither has a bar though...serious drawback!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 05:33 AM

Did anyone here go to Repton School - that might suit and it is nearer than my old school (from whom I have heard nothing yet) - and no, it was not the caning scene but dining room scene.

Repton might also want to do it as they of course host the Repton big band, one of the premier under 18 jazz orchestras.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 03:58 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Surreysinger
Date: 24 Oct 05 - 07:31 PM

Just for the record I have now written to Canford School in Dorset. Unfortunately it is farther south than might be wished, but having been to the Summer school there I can vouch for the fact that they have fantastic facilities and a lovely campus. It's also close to an airport, Bournemouth station, has a school bus etc. Again, any port in a storm seems worth pursuing to me. Royal Holloway College in Egham isn't available 2006 because of construction work on a new theatre, but may be in 2007 - may be worth pursuing as it's close to Heathrow/Gatwick, and of course London, so transport shouldn't be any worse than that to Sutton Bonington.

John, you said "I've organised lots of conferences in the past, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to do all the legwork for me". My impression is that they've been doing all the legwork they can to try and get the 2006 festival into touch,but with difficulty, and have approached regulars on their e-mail list to try and widen their possible sphere of "hits". I don't know whether your hunts for conference facilities were as part of your work or not, but as far as I'm aware the organisers all have normal day jobs (in John Heydon's case that of accountant) thus making search time available to them all the more limited. Seems to me that it's a worthwhile idea, particularly if, like me, you value the Festival. I've been going for over 15 years, and have only missed on two occasions - once due to inability to drive thanks to an operation, and ,on the other occasion, as the Festival was cancelled as a result of foot and mouth disease.

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 25 Oct 05 - 03:05 PM

Canford School would be great, if willing....

Kitty

Subject: RE: National Festival England 2006.2007
From: danensis
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 02:44 PM

In answer to Surreysinger all the conferences I've organised have been in my spare time. I usually find about half a day on the telephone will find somewhere, but even less now we have t'internet. Most places are falling over themselves to have conferences, and will offer some big incentives - though I haven't persuaded any to have a free bar yet.