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Who have you musically mentored?
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Subject: Who have you musically mentored? From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 23 Oct 05 - 01:23 PM Jerry Rasmussen's thread, "Who was your musical mentor?", is (as is the norm with Jerry's threads) a fascinating bit of buisness. It begs, however, that the question be asked in the other direction. For whom have you been a musical mentor? I may be a bit more sensitive to this side of the coin than some due to the fact that I have spent a good deal of the past ten years as the host of one open mic or another in Madison, WI. It has made me a bit more aware of my responsibility to younger or less experienced musicians. This is also a more difficult question to answer. We don't always know who has gained what (if anything) from us. To answer the question myself I'll confine myself to just one Although I've been told that there are others who think of me as a mentor, I don't actually know who they are. Also I should point out that I have not set out to be a mentor to anyone. It's just that part of an open mic host's job somtimes involves being a cheerleader and teacher as well as an enabler. That tends to make me a mentor largely by default. There is a gentleman here in Madison by the name of Eric Hester (and I aologize to Eric if I have misspelled his name)who is more direct and aggressive mentor,by having founded the Madison Songwriter's Group. The MSG does some wonderful work. Aaron Nathans is the only one who has actually used the word "mentor" in relation to me, so I'll confine myself to discussing him. I first saw Aaron about eight or nine years ago, when I was hosting the open mic at a place called Mother Fool's Coffeehouse here in Madison. He had only been on stage once or twice before so he needed polish and to spend more time with his guitar. He did a servicable job on a couple of Jim Croce tunes. After his set he came up to me and rather than asking me what I thought of his performance asked me what he might be able to do to improve it. I was a bit surprised and impressed by the question. That level of self-awareness in one so new to performing is, at the most, highly unusual. I told him three things: 1) Relax! The audience doesn't bite (very hard). 2) Haunt every open mic in town. Grab every opportunity you can to get up in front of a crowd with that guitar. 3) Listen to the audience. Thier responses will tell you where they want to go. Follow that path just enough to let them know that you're on thier side. After that you can usually lead them where YOU want to go. Besides, where do you think timing comes from? I don't think that I've given him any other (I don't have any more than that anyway). He has, since then become a darned confident singer, an inventive and creative songwriter (his song "I Remember Howard Dean" spent several months on the open mic page of the All Songs Considered website just before Howard Dean was named president of the DNC), and is evolving into one heck of a comedian. I'm very proud of him (even though it's still a bit jarring to hear him use my name and the word "mentor" in the same sentence). And now, as my barber always used to say, "Next!" |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: CarolC Date: 23 Oct 05 - 02:47 PM I don't know if I have successfully mentored anyone, musically, but whenever I find myself in close proximity with any young people while my accordion is with me, I always try to find an opportunity to let the young ones have the experience of wearing and making some sounds on the accordion. My feeling is that one of the biggest reasons the accordion is not a more commonly played instrument is simply lack of opportunity for people to try one out. Most young people I encounter who do get this opportunity tell me they think the accordion is a very cool instrument. That, and also I like to spread my addiction around. Having said all of that, I did and do try to expose my son to as many diferent kinds of music as possible. And now that he is all grown up, he is returning the favor by introducing me to music that I have not ever heard before. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 23 Oct 05 - 06:31 PM That's what the music is for , Carol. I'll bet that we hear a lot of "mentoring by default" stories. Stephen Lee |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Gurney Date: 23 Oct 05 - 08:34 PM That way around, yes, I've encouraged a couple of people, and if they want to, they may acknowledge it here (they are here), but I wouldn't refer to it myself because it is THEIR life. One person did, on a CD sleeve. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 23 Oct 05 - 08:43 PM So, who was it on the CD sleeve? |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 23 Oct 05 - 09:34 PM Pretty stupid thread Rick - but it certainly beats puching the horse four times a week.
As Anna noted while in Siam - "by your students you will be taught"
Let us roll back two thousand years into an Aristilian school of thought....and truncate a syllogism.
Students mentor teachers. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 23 Oct 05 - 10:45 PM No one I hope... that would imply I knew anything about music in the first place... |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Phil Cooper Date: 23 Oct 05 - 11:16 PM I've had a couple guitar students who seemed to learn something from me. There are a couple of performers who I encouraged when they started out (yes, it is a trip to be mentioned on a CD cover). |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 23 Oct 05 - 11:46 PM I've taught a lot people who've gone on to play in bands and stuff. my only famous guitar student was Donald Ross Skinner who was lead guitarist and collaborator with Julian Cope. You can see him on Top of the Pops 2 playing lead on World Shut Your Mouth. After he was a record producer and worked with Michael Stipe. i saw an article about him a couple of months ago in one of these glossy guitar mags, but I wasn't paying attention. Somebody else I owe a letter, thanks for reminding me! |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Pauline L Date: 24 Oct 05 - 01:59 AM Teaching violin is one of the most satisfying and rewarding (not in $) things I've ever done. I don't expect my students to become professional performers, but I know that I've enriched their lives in some important ways. I don't expect any of them to say thank you; so few people ever do. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: C-flat Date: 24 Oct 05 - 02:33 AM A guy approached me after a gig and announced "You are the reason that I started to learn guitar!" Flattered, and a little taken aback, I thanked him for the compliment. "Well", he continued, "I thought that if you can learn to play with fingers as fat as yours, then I'm sure I can!!" Does that count as mentoring? C-flat. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 24 Oct 05 - 02:47 AM My entire boy scout troop - I taught them not only to sing, but also in two to three voices. This was 50 years ago, and many of them have gone their last track. But we few survivors still meet once a year, and we are joined by a few members of other troops. I think that singing forged us together until now. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: kendall Date: 24 Oct 05 - 07:58 AM I'll mention only one case. A few years ago, I went to a meeting of the local folk club, and a nice young lady sat beside me. As the songs went around, she refused to sing. Finally, I pressured her and she did sing a beautiful unaccompanied native American song. After the session she said she wanted to learn to play guitar, so I volunteered to get her started. We spent a few sessions working on basic chords, then I lost track of her. One day I was driving though South Freeport and I saw a sign that said this lady was going to perform there the following weekend. Naturally, I made it a point to be there. I arrived as she was singing and playing the guitar in public! She has been at it ever since, and now she blames me for getting her hooked! |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Skipjack K8 Date: 24 Oct 05 - 10:41 AM Oaklet |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Oct 05 - 10:48 AM My kid the punk rocker. People say they see a lot of me in his performances (and I'm not sure I should take that as a compliment). But now he makes three European tours a year and one a year to Japan, and he's been mentioned at least once in Rolling Stone. And Toyota offered his band $250,000 for a song, but the band declined the offer because they didn't want to be known as "the band in the Toyota commercial." Nic Offer's his name, and his bands are "Out Hud" and "!!!" (pronounced "Chick Chick Chick"). One of their albums is Street Dad (named after me), and the sing on the album is "Dad, There's a Little Phrase Called 'Too Much Information'" (named after me). His onstage dancing has been compared to that of a wind-up chimpanzee. That's my boy. -Proud Papa- |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 25 Oct 05 - 03:33 AM "too much information" - I think I hear my elder daughter speaking. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 26 Oct 05 - 02:37 AM gargoyle, I don't see this as stupid at all. we're discussing how we go about the buisness of "passing it down the line". Isn't that what folk music is, in part, about? Stephen Lee |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Gurney Date: 27 Oct 05 - 08:48 PM It seems we should first define 'mentor.' Wordweb dictionary: Noun. A wise and trusted guide and advisor. Verb. Serve as a teacher or trusted councellor. That covers everything from congratulations on a performance to teaching them all they know. Provided that you are wise, and trusted. (Licks finger, smoothes eyebrow.) |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:33 PM I have tried to be there for a lot of people when they seemed to be lurking at the threshold of a musical breakthrough. These were younger singers. When they showed a propensity for the more traditional songs and instrumental styles, that's when I began showing them the musical path I'd been on. I gave my mountain dulcimer to one of these kids---after I wasn't able to play it any more. He has, since then (several years ago), become a monster rock guitar player in our area---and beyond. His father tells me he's using the dulcimer on some songs in his shows now... Often I provide recorded CD and cassette insights for them. At least I try to tell young performers, when I think they have all the right instincts, how very much I am enjoying watching their progress through this road less travelled side of what passes for folk music in the USA now. Sometimes my own doings in the folk revival are the best examples I can show them. Some folksingers around here in the Midwest area of the USA that I've actively encouraged because, even early on, they were all so damn good, are: Li'l Rev, Mark Dvorak, Anna Stang, and Lee Murdock-----all solo performers.-------------If you've not caught what they're doing, you are missing a lot of wonderful music!! Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: SINSULL Date: 27 Oct 05 - 11:00 PM When I started the monthly Song Circle, I had Barry Finn's party in mind. It was late in the evening when I got up the courage to sing. And the response from people like Susan A-R and Joe Offer was kindly supportive. There have been a number of newbies who have sung in my home knowing that that they were among friends. Last week, a business acquaintance attended, sang for the first time in public in her life and then got all teary saying that she had just fulfilled a lifetime dream. It doesn't get much better than that. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 27 Oct 05 - 11:50 PM One night in Madison, Wisconsin at the Club De Wash, my gig elsewhere was over, and I was watching old friends Peter and Lou Berryman----a fellow walked up to me and told me that my recording of Don Lange's song, Here's To You Rounders, on my first LP, had saved his marriage. That was over 20 years ago, but I'll never forget how nice it felt. I do hope they're still together! Art |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Patrick-Costello Date: 29 Oct 05 - 12:15 AM It's hard to really answer that one simply because nobody ever sees the full impact of his or her life. Everything we do sets off a chain reaction in one way or another. The people you teach go on to teach other people and those second, third and fiftieth generation students know your work and feel a connection to your music even if they never get to know your - or even know that you ever existed. My own experience with that sort of second or third party mentoring has always left me feeling a little bit dazed. It's not unusual nowadays to go somewhere and have a complete stranger walk up with a banjo and knock out my arrangement of Baltimore Fire or start frailing a bluegrass or blues lick from one of my books. It's a good feeling and a creepy feeling at the same time. Good in that it's pretty cool to think that I've managed to take the music that a handful of people shared with me to a much wider audience and creepy in that we've managed to reach more people than I ever dreamed possible. I know that we have sold thousands of books because I have to ship the freaking things - but those same books are also freely available online under a Creative Commons license so it's impossible to say just how many people have read them. Factor in the tens of thousands of people using our podcast workshops and I just get nervous. Shoot, I started a new job last week (I'm working for Geek Squad) and on my second day one of the guys asked me out of the blue if I was the same Patrick Costello who writes open source music books. Like I said, it's kind of creepy. In the end, putting a book online or sitting under a tree in a park playing the banjo are just two ways of doing the same thing. Folk music really only "works" when you set it loose where people can find it. Sometimes something as simple as taking the time to teach a kid how to make an E chord can set off a chain of events that changes the world. -Patrick |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: C-flat Date: 29 Oct 05 - 10:04 AM Sometimes something as simple as taking the time to teach a kid how to make an E chord can set off a chain of events that changes the world. Patrick, that's so true. I always try to take the time to chat and listen to "new" players who will quite often come up after a gig and want to talk guitar. As a learner I picked up lots of tips the same way and was always thrilled to be shown something new and find another doorway opening with all those new possibilities. It maybe doesn't add up to "mentoring" as such but it could make all the difference to a young players potential. C-flat. |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: Patrick-Costello Date: 29 Oct 05 - 10:38 AM It maybe doesn't add up to "mentoring" as such but it could make all the difference to a young players potential. That's pretty much how it worked for me. When I was a kid the guys who really helped me would show me something and then tell me flat-out to get lost and "don't come back until you can do like I showed you." I think a lot of teachers get too wrapped up in hand-holding. It's a good idea at first glance to try and make things as easy as possible for the next generation of players, but you have to balance that out with the fact that dealing with challenges on your own is a huge part of the learning process. It's not enough to learn the notes for one song. You have to take the core concept of the style and the instrument and find a way to make it natural. That's not an easy process because it involves getting around a lot of self-imposed limitations. You have to hit the wall. Once you're at that point any help you get actually slows things down because finding a way to get around, over, through or under that wall is where the real understanding of the craft comes about. With banjo or guitar I really only see students in a formal lesson setting three or four times. We'll go over the basic stuff for a few visits and then I'll drag them to a jam session. I always tell them that after the basics the only thing I can do in a lesson is teach you how to play individual songs - and that would be a waste of my time and your time. Come with me and let's get used to the most important part of music - rhythm. Play rhythm and start following the chord progressions. Can you feel the chord changes coming? No? Okay, don't look at everybody else because by the time you see them change chords you're already out of time with the group. Let's relax and really listen. What key are we in? G? Okay, we know that the next chord has a good chance of being C or D so lets just roll along and see where she goes. . . After a while they start singing. A while after that I'll see them for an afternoon and get them working on scales. Not "this is such and such a scale". The way I usually do it is to go over the concept of scales and how the relate to the fretboard and chord forms. In other words, this is how they all work. After a while they start blending in melody. About then I stop thinking of them as students. The thing that meant the most to me as a kid trying to learn the guitar was when an experienced player treated me like a human being. The idea that I was expected to have the sense to figure out how to take what I was shown to me and expand on it was pretty empowering. It drove home the idea that the only difference between me and the professional was time, experience and hard work. Talent and even tradition never came up. It was just a skill that I could learn if I was willing to work hard enough. It wasn't always easy, but then again if it was easy it wouldn't be worth doing. -Patrick |
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Subject: RE: Who have you musically mentored? From: GUEST,J Date: 29 Oct 05 - 02:49 PM My son and 2 nephews would probably point to me as their main influence early on in their musical experience. My son elected to go to college and my nephs have a sucessful punk band in Pittsburgh. The main thing I did at first was impress upon them the importance of being aware of what the bass, drums and guitar were doing and where each fit into the music. My equipment was left at their house unless I was gigging and they were always allowed to use it. One neph is a guitarist/songwriter, but can play bass and drums as well. The same for his brother who's primarily a drummer. They both play fairly good keyboard, too. Also, when they became good enough I showed them the rudiments of recording and amplification. They knew the difference between a monitor mix and a main mix before they ever gigged. Did the best I could to familiarize them with the language of stage performance and equipment. When they were in high school we rented a hall on 3 different occasions. They found bands from 2 other local schools and sold tickets. They paid for everything up front from lighting trees to stage risers. The bands put up posters in their respective schools and charged an admission. Some parents helped out with security and all the bands made money. Each time out my direct involvment was less. The 3d time all I did was show up about an hour before showtime, supervise the sound/lighting check and then watch the show. I didn't touch a single piece of equipment or a pot. The bands and friends did everything from set-up to strike with no supervision. There were no fights and the mosh-pit was churning from the first note to the last chord of the night all 3 shows. Besides my nephews 5 or 6 of those involved in the planning and execution of those shows are 'in the business' either as performers, sound/lighting techs or recording engineers. More than mentor what I feel I did was to encourage some kids to be subversive, stay in the black, pay up front and don't wait for permission to succeed. |
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