BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: R. Padgett
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 02:22 PM

The nitty gritty is banning smoking from public places in particular folk clubs

I could say much more but I dont wish to offend friends ~ they know who they are and they are killing me with their smoking, nice though they are


Cannot fudge the issue and it smacks of pandering by the government to Tax paying companies

Ireland Scotland Oz and US why not England?

Lily livered Ministers whose bloody pockets are yer in??

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Metchosin
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 12:13 PM

now when are they finally going to get down to the nitty gritty and ban the internal combustion engine?

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 07:21 AM

Yes, I am a great believer in abstract principles and civil liberties. So that makes me beyond reason and understanding, does it? Maybe I should be issuing a public apolgy for my perverse opinions. I'll have to think about this.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 06:56 AM

Smokers can keep their liberties. Just be reasonable to those around you and go outside. It's so simple unlike our stupid government!

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST,smoked at from both sides
Date: 29 Oct 05 - 09:16 AM

smokers who continue to insist on their 'right'
to smoke in pubs/clubs/music venues
are just weak pathetic selfish arrogant bullies..


non smokers,
who see it as a matter of abstact principle and civil liberties,
to support smokers in their struggle for the 'human right'
to inflict their foul fug of toxins in public places..

..well.. they're just beyond reason and all understanding..!!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 05 - 09:13 AM

So it's ban smoking, tell them off, but say nothing to the groups of bastards outside the pubs on the street when the pubs close kicking the side panels in of cars and throwing up over shop windows ? Tackle that first before anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Oct 05 - 09:08 AM

I dont think spirring on the floor in pubs is at all analogous to smoking. Drinking and smoking are core activities in pubs, and have been for centuries, as any glance in old books or artt gallery will tell you. Spitting, shoving broken bottles in people's faces, screaming abuse at people, and vomiting in ashtrays are the regrettable downside of things which should be eliminated.
    What is desperately unfair about the new absurd compromise and fudge is the fact that it penalises pubs that sell food: no wonder the licensed trade is up in arms. Why should non-food pubs be given an unfair advantage? A crzy and anti-health move. All concepts of fairness and liberalism have gone out of the window in this sad debate, it is all about power and let's run other peoles' lives. A miserable business, which is bringing out the worst in a lot of people.
    As far as I'm concerned, if people want to drive racing cars, go mountaineering, or patronise(or work in) a smoking pub, let them, however dangerous it is. Nobody is going to make you.
The current plan is completely ludicrous. I have a selection of food pubs, non-food pubs and workingman's clubs within a short walk of me, but that choice is not available to all. The custom of blowing smoke in people's faces will soon die a natural death, but why on earth can't we leave smoking rooms in pubs that want to have one while people still want that as well? There is only one reason: because some people can't abide other people enjoying themselves. It's not a nice character trait.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Tam the man
Date: 29 Oct 05 - 08:49 AM

People who work in these places will still be breathing in smoke, so just ban it altogther, And in Ireland, America business have thrived since the ban.

Anyway no forced the cigarette into your mouth or the fag packet into your pocket.

Tam frae Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 05 - 04:24 AM

The bar owners for one Fergie.I came over to Wicklow in August and a bar owner told me his sales went through the floor. He said off licence sales are making the money now as most people are drinking at home. He was the chairman of the local licenced trade group.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Fergie
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 09:53 PM

We heard all these arguments here in Ireland when the ban was suggested, it was going to be the end of civilisation as we know it.. It has worked fine, you never see anybody smoking in the pub, yet the world has not ended. The vast majority, smokers and non-smokers alike prefer the pubs to be smoke free. and research demonstrates that ALL are benifiting from the ban, whether they be smokers, non-smokers or bar workers. Its a win win situation. And guess what; the beer actually tastes better. I dont know one person who would wish us to revert to the way it was.
Fergus

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 08:57 PM

I'm pretty sure that even if I still smoked I'd sooner do it out in the fresh air.

After all most of us are happy enough to leave the bar area to relieve ourselves; we don't insist on using a piss-bottle where we are. And people very rarely seem to feel a need to spit on the floor in pubs, even though there is no specific law against it, and spittoons are pretty uncommon these days.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Joybell
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 07:48 PM

To breathe or not to breathe is hardly a "life-style" choice. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: yrlancslad
Date: 28 Oct 05 - 04:44 AM

Thats how we all die in the end HPB, short of breath.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 11:04 PM

My friend died because she could not breath anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 08:56 PM

I'm still puzzled by why the presence or absence of food is seen as in any way relevant to whether smoking is or is not allowed. If it had been that smoking was only permitted in pubs where people under 40 weren't allowed it might make some sense. (Though I'd be agin it for the same reason I gave earlier - if such pubs existed, they'd be the best ones, and better still without the smoke.)

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Stu
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 10:25 AM

That wasn't me either.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:42 AM

Well tough on all you lot that wanted it banned. As a smoker I am delighted with the government over this.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:33 AM

What I can't understand is why Tonys' Nannys want to control almost every aspect of my life, and then make legislation to allow almost unfettered 24 hour boozing and gambling?? Two of the worst addictions after smoking surely? Do I detect the politically correct hand of the Treasury?

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:12 AM

So, cars should be banned from driving into garages, because people work there? I havent noticed many of the "total ban" people advocating that. Give us all a break from yet another outbreak of hypocrisy. If you want to ban smoking, ban smoking, great. But don't let's all pretend it's for the good of the workers. If it was for the worker's benefit, we'd stop ill people going into pubs because they infect the bar man. Far more people die from flu than passive smoking. Personally, I dont smoke, and will be highly glad when pubs are smoke free....but I hate being choked by waves of smug hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 09:02 AM

Interesting interview with a spokesman from FOREST on TV this morning. When asked about the choice of pub workers to not have to inhale other people's smoke he said they had the choice of working somewhere that doesn't allow smoking. When it was suggested that the smokers always had the choice of either not smoking or going outdoors to smoke he asked what kind of choice that was!

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 08:32 AM

Excellent, Fab, Great! Tony's bunch of nannys have backed off.
                I smoke, therefore I am!(in red)

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 08:01 AM

Smoking kills the appetite, stop NOW, and put three stone on like I did.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 06:59 AM

Other people's filth, in the form of smoke, enters my body via inhalation doesn't it? Do our idiot politicians seriously believe that this phenomenon only occurs when food is present in the room, that the absence of food somehow prevents smokers from poisoning me?
Dickheads the lot of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Stu
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 05:03 AM

"I'm disgusted with the offensive stuff people like our anonymous guest feels fit to write!"

Sorry but I didn't realise I was anonymous and I've just noticed my cookie had gone awry, and it was me that started this thread and posted above as a GUEST too (did I post something offensive?). I was not the GUEST who posted at Date: 26 Oct 05 - 04:47 PM.

All should be working now. I would hate not to put my name to my own posts!

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 04:52 AM

I too, am an occasional smoker who goes outside to indulge (except for Saturday night when I was very drunk and had one in the pub for the first time in ages - hypocrite!) and I think a total ban is the only workable solution.

It should be interesting to see how these poltroons define food. Of course, we all know crisps, pork scratchings and nuts are actually food (especially scratchings), but will these be exempt? What about pickled eggs? Pork pies? Barm cakes? Are these food?

One of my favourite pubs sells food only at lunchtimes and not in the evenings. Does that mean people can smoke in the evenings or not at all?

Interesting the resistance to the total ban was by John Reid, a Scottish MP representing a Scottish constituency and whose constituents will benefit from a total ban in 2006, and this ban relates to England and Wales.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: mooman
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 04:26 AM

A lost opportunity to do what Ireland and Norway have successfully done and what Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales are planning.

A typical Tony-crony arse-about-tit, climb-down, about-turn fudge as usual! Poor Patricia!

Peace

moo

(even this bastion of the smoker, Belgium, is talking about a complete ban in public places now)

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Paul Burke
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 04:15 AM

Are they banning smoking fudge then?

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: yrlancslad
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 01:06 AM

Here in California the no smoking in bars and resteraunts was pushed by the unions who didn't want there members suffering from second hand smoke. The law eventually banned smoking in all those places except where only family members of the owner was employed. Seemed a sensible compromise to me, still leaving some bars and resteraunts where the smokers could enjoy a pint AND a ciggie but leaving the vast majority of places free to us non-smokers.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 09:12 PM

Smoking dulls the taste of food and drink. Give up now and enjoy life.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 06:53 PM

"The writing is on the wall. It's inevitable."

We can f-n well hope!

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 06:50 PM

Here in Victoria we have a total ban and it stirred all the same emotions as in the UK when it first came about. In the end it turned out that it actually boosted trade because, surprise, not even smokers like smokey pubs much. The ban is often cited as a major contributor to quitting the habit as social gatherings are notoriously difficult for those trying to stop smoking. A review will highlight the shortcomings of a so-called partial ban and the full monty will come into effect eventually. The writing is on the wall. It's inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST,a legal smoker
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 06:37 PM

I'm a smoker - it isn't illegal folks!
I'm disgusted with the offensive stuff people like our anonymous guest feels fit to write! I only smoke in designated areas because I like to think that I am sensitive to other peoples life style but frankly people like you make me wonder why I bother, you ain't worth my courtesy!

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 05:41 PM

Ban ALL smoking...

(This is from an occasional smoker)

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: vectis
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 05:36 PM

I assume that any pub selling crisps and nuts will have to ban smoking, which is almost all of them :-))
I reckon the cowards didn't want to lose votes in the north which is their votes stronghold by putting a full ban in place. It works very well in Ireland so why not here? Some pubs in Ireland have created the most imaginative ares for smokers in gardens and courtyards so their smokers can legally stay on the premises and not clog up the doorways to the streets.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 04:47 PM

Great to see the back down. Twenty years ago we had closet gays, now the closet door in left open after they came out to be pushed down our throats on television screens and the smokers got pushed into it.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 03:45 PM

An exemption for pubs that don't sell food is just silly. That just means the most enjoyable pubs to drink in are still going to be messed up by smokers without the good manners to step outside when they want to light up. And now you won't even be able to buy a cheese roll to eat there if you venture in. How does that make the smoke any less of a nuisance? Either for customers or staff.

Exempting private clubs seems reasonable enough, consenting adults and all that - but only so long as these don't involve exploiting people employed to work there who have to put up with a smoke filled work environment.

I see the reason given for not going for an Irish and Scottish type full ban is that this would go further than what was said about this legislation in the Labour Party manifesto. That's a laugh, from a government that is happy to tear up every other Labour Party policy, any time it suits Tony Blair to choose to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 03:13 PM

"still forced to inhale other peoples smoke"
Who is forcing you?

" pubs who will loose business to private clubs where the smaggos will now go"
And non-smokers will come to the pubs... so they might even make MORE money...

"all those people working in these places who are not protected by law"
Agreed

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 02:57 PM

GUEST: are you suggesting a legal ban on farting in pubs? How is it be enforced, exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 02:34 PM

I am all for a ban in public places and work places - how about a private smoking club? Where would that stand?

Subject: BS: England/Wales Smoke ban - another fudge
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 02:12 PM

Well, Tony and his cronies have done it again.

Rather than a blanket ban on smoking in all public places, private clubs and food-free pubs will be exempt.

Shame for all those people working in these places who are not protected by law and will still be subect to physical assualt by smaggos.

Shame too for the pubs who will loose business to private clubs where the smaggos will now go.

Shame for all of us still forced to inhale other peoples smoke - would they mind if I fart in their faces?

Shame nobody in this government has got the balls (or whatever, sorry ladies) to do the right thing in anything they put their feeble minds to.