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Ferdie Flores

Tam the man 31 Oct 05 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 31 Oct 05 - 09:54 AM
Paul Burke 31 Oct 05 - 11:50 AM
alanabit 31 Oct 05 - 01:30 PM
Allan C. 31 Oct 05 - 01:54 PM
Paul Burke 01 Nov 05 - 03:39 AM
GUEST,alina 01 Nov 05 - 05:16 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 01 Nov 05 - 05:33 AM
GUEST,Felix Edjeren 01 Nov 05 - 05:38 AM
Paul Burke 01 Nov 05 - 06:05 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 07:23 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 07:32 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 01 Nov 05 - 08:16 AM
Paul Burke 01 Nov 05 - 08:29 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 08:41 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 08:47 AM
GUEST,Pissed off Guest 01 Nov 05 - 08:51 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 08:57 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:02 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:06 AM
GUEST 01 Nov 05 - 09:07 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:08 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:09 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:14 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:15 AM
GUEST 01 Nov 05 - 09:15 AM
GUEST 01 Nov 05 - 09:16 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:21 AM
wysiwyg 01 Nov 05 - 09:27 AM
Jeri 01 Nov 05 - 09:27 AM
Tam the man 01 Nov 05 - 09:35 AM
Paul Burke 01 Nov 05 - 09:51 AM
GUEST,Scott 01 Nov 05 - 11:22 PM
GUEST,Felix Edjeren 02 Nov 05 - 06:16 AM
Tam the man 02 Nov 05 - 07:09 AM
Tam the man 02 Nov 05 - 07:12 AM
Tam the man 02 Nov 05 - 07:33 AM
Paul Burke 02 Nov 05 - 10:16 AM
Tam the man 03 Nov 05 - 08:53 AM
Tam the man 03 Nov 05 - 08:57 AM
Jim Dixon 03 Nov 05 - 09:50 AM
Paul Burke 03 Nov 05 - 10:24 AM
wysiwyg 03 Nov 05 - 10:30 AM
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Subject: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 09:47 AM

As a born again Christain, there's a Pastor called Fredie Flores wh is a missionary and on Tuesday he is to exicuted by being beating to death in East Timor, so if there is any other christains could you plase pray from him.

Tom


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 09:54 AM

Tam,
Is there anyone we can contact who may be able to prevent this from happening and secondly what is he accused of that has led to this barabaric decision


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 11:50 AM

If it's true it's appalling. But is it? I can't find any mention of it in a Google search.

There is some good news from East Timor, though:
Dublin busdriver campaigns for human rights.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: alanabit
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 01:30 PM

Where did this news come from Tam? I did a Google search, but I could not find anything under "Pastor Freddie Flores East Timor" or any other grouping of those words.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Allan C.
Date: 31 Oct 05 - 01:54 PM

In 1999 four priests and one nun were executed in East Timor. Their crime was giving aid and shelter to people who had been persecuted by the government. There is no indication that this sort of retaliation has stopped.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 03:39 AM

In 1999 East Timor was occupied by Indonesia (a key ally of the USA in the area). It has since achieved independence, a process in which Indonesian government- sponsored militias caused untold violence, in which almost a third of the population were killed or starved to death. Many others were forcibly detained for years in Indonesian West Timor, having crossed the border as refugees.

The retaliation against people who support rebels has stopped, because the rebels have won. The Indonesian government is still in power in the remainder of the country, but they are now acting against Moslem separatists, and hunting the Bali bombers, so they can be forgiven for attempted genocide now, can't they?

Even given the probability that Allan C's allegation is true (names, dates and places would help- Google doesn't), as bad and worse were happening to the rest of the (non- missionary) population, so they can scarcely have been singled out for persecution.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST,alina
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 05:16 AM

does anybodi know whjat is going to happen to him?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 05:33 AM

Tam

I have searched the web and cannot find any mention of this story on any site, including the East Timor Press website. I trust this is not a wind up as the only Freddie Flores I can find mentioned is an actor. Can you enlighten us further


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST,Felix Edjeren
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 05:38 AM

Got a GSM text message on this just yesterday asking that prayers be made for Pastor Fredie Flores and sent it to some forty praying Christians, requesting a stay of execution. Expect positive results.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 06:05 AM

I think someone is pulling your plonker. None of the news feeds mention anything like this. Indeed, it's a very unlikely thing to happen in a country that is over 90% Roman Catholic.

Source: Religious statistics for East Timor

And as I've pointed out elsewhere, the people who are playing on the ignorance of American Christians have a very dangerous agenda indeed. They want genocide and world war. Some of them because it furthers their political cause, others, even more frighteningly and disgustingly, because their religious agenda requires it. Rapture, anyone?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 07:23 AM

I just got this a text message from my Christian brother Adam Drysdale and my Christain Sister Deborah Sloss, and all they told me was that Pastor Fredie Flores was being excuited today in East Timor.

Tam

PS
I'll givethem a Phone to find out more, and I'm not pulling anyone plonker either I'm just passing on the message that was giving to me yesterday.

Tam


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 07:32 AM

It was a Christain brother Called Derck who told my Christain Brother Adam, who then told me by text.


I've no other imformtion about it Sorry. I'll find out about on Friday when I go to my Fellowship meeting with my other Christain brothers and sisters, and I'll tell you what I found out on Saturday hopefully.

God Bless

Tam


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:09 AM

Don't shhot the messenger I'm just passing on what was texted to me

Tam frae Scotland


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:16 AM

Tam

More info on Friday will be too late if what you tell us correct, I realise that there is probably little we can do at this stage, but by Friday the guy will be dead, if there is anything that can be it has to be done today


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:29 AM

According to MSN Encarta, East Timor (Timor Leste) does not have capital punishment.

Here is a list of known judicial murders in the world during September 2005:

America            6 (1 female)
China             10
Iran               9
Iraq               3
Japan             1
Pakistan          2
Saudi Arabia       10

Total             41

Good company, eh?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:41 AM

As I said I'm just passing on the text message, I never said that it was right or wrong and just like you I can't say wither the thing is right of wrong.

Tam


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:47 AM

I have asked my my chirstain brothers and Sisters on the phone Adam and Deborah and that they got the imformation from another Christian brother Derick who said that this Pastor was apparantly going to exicuted today, I can't tell you anymore.

As I said I can't say what is happing in East Timor is happing today is really happening So I'm sorry that's all I know.

I wish I hadn't started this thing now, however I'll be praying for him anyway, wither it's true or not.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST,Pissed off Guest
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:51 AM

Tam

Do you automatically believe everything you read on the internet, every text message you receive, every email? Even friends passing things on may have done the same knee jerk you did.

You are a Spammers and a Trollers delight.

A simple google search on Pastor Flores would do two things.

1 It would point you to his own web site where you might find the truth, and

2 You'd discover how to spell his name.

Don't waste the time of this music discussion forum with unfounded, unmusic related rumours unless you've done a bit of simple searching to verify your facts.

A quick search (You can find it out for yourself) will show it's a typical fundamentalist born again Christian propaganda lie exercise aimed against the Roman Catholic Church but couched in such a way as to hit at the fear centres and xenophobias of all you so called Christians out there.

Idiot.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 08:57 AM

So I'm an Idiot because I care for a man I don't really care what faith he is, and it might be another Fredie Flores anyway how do you know that's the same person I'm talking about.

Idiot


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:02 AM

Look I'm sorry about this, as I say I'm a Born again Christian that tries to accept people of Different faiths after all isn't that Jesus taught us to do, to show love towards ecah other.

I do not automatically believe everything I read or get told, so please don't accuse me of being a troll. As I say I'm only passing on the message, after that It's up to you lot what you do I'll be praying for him anyway.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:06 AM

As I said I'm only passing on the message that's all, and how dare you call me an Idiot, you don't even know me. Unlike you I'll be prying for him.

And anyway why are you a guest, and you don't even give us your name, I think that's a bit dishonest. You know my name


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:07 AM

OK since you wont do the simple things yourself here is the googled web site http://www.fbc-misawa.org/missionaries/Flores.htm

I can't be bothered doing a blue clicky for people who won't help themselves.

And yes you are still an idiot, so read that site and I suggest you spend a bit of your wonderful humanity reading the obit: threads for those people who have genuinely passed on and saddened us all instead of passing on what is clearly rubbish.

A read of that web site leaves me with no sympathy for that man, I sense he is a typical fundamentalist troublemaker (they do exist in your wonderful born again Christain world as well as elsewhere)


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:08 AM

Why are we arguing about wither a man is going to die or not as I said I'll be praying for him today I don't know about you.

And if are a memeber of the Catholic faith I think that you should be praying for him as well, after all you concererd yourselves as Christains don't you?


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:09 AM

Fair enough I give in.

from Tam the idiot


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:14 AM

Sorry Guest, I just didn't know, now that I have read the website and also sent it to my Christain brothers and sisters I'm sorry for calling you an Idiot.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:15 AM

I hope you will accept me saying sorry


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:15 AM

No we are not arguing about whether a man is going to die or not, we are arguing about why you posted an obit for someone who is not dead, whose own web site has stated that he is not dead nor is he under sentence of death.

Why have you not bothered to do the simple things I suggested you do like read the information?

Will you apologise for posting the original based on nothing more than received information with no checking?

"DONT WASTE OUR TIME" excuse me shouting but you don't seem to be listening.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:16 AM

Oops misssed your posts before posting mine

Lets call it a day


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:21 AM

Ok I apoligise for staring this thread whitout checking first, I'll that the next time Ok.

SORRY EVERYONE FOR THIS THREAD


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:27 AM

To be fair to Tam, the two sources I usually check for these sorts of stories appear NOT to have anything about this particular story.

Still, Tam, as a veteran of the religion wars at Mudcat, I would point out that threads of this sort generally go as this one did. Try not to take it personally, Tam.... getting upset just gets in the way of your own prayer life. And adding to people's hysteria, as a prayer request of this sort does, is not an instance of doing the Lord's work, but someone else's. When a brother or a sister sends you a message like this one, a good start on responding in a godly way is to remain calm in the confidence that our Lord has the situation well in hand.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:27 AM

Here are some facts: Flores Family.


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:35 AM

I just Paniced that's all without finfin out about it first,

Thank you and God Bless


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Subject: RE: Obit: Fredie Flores
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:51 AM

Big man Tam. It is difficult to admit it when you're wrong, but you are better than that.

Now, I'd really like to know what REALLY happened- was there even a mob with stones and machetes? Were they dispersed by the Lord or a copper on a bike? Is the (local) Catholic church actually instigating people against them, or has Ferdie made himself unpopular for some other reason?

It can't be much of a shock to Timoreans when somebody is converted, at least according to one website, many ETs converted to Catholicism (from Animism of various sorts) during the Indonesian occupation 1974-2000.


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: GUEST,Scott
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 11:22 PM

ok, from the website it shows that he isnt being executed. However, he still sounds like he needs our prayers. I'm still praying for him. thanks to everyone that researched this.
Godbless
Scott


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: GUEST,Felix Edjeren
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 06:16 AM

Big relief to hear Flores isn't being judicially executed afterall but religiously persecuted. Bible says in all things give thanks, so we thank God Tam has made us all aware of an unfortunate situation in East Timor, though the process was flawed. We will continue to pray. Human beings, born-again Christians and Catholics inclusive, are naturally prone to error. Often we do not even know how to pray right, but God always answers right. Thank you Tam, thank you pissed off Guest. God bless and strenghten Pastor Flores, family and fellowship.


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 07:09 AM

Thank and God Bless


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 07:12 AM

I'll check up next time.

God Bless

Tam


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 07:33 AM

The real praise should go to God and not to anyone here on this thread


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 10:16 AM

Do you mean the God whose supporters appear to be at each other's throats, like Rangers and Celtic in Glasgow on a Saturday night? Or some other god that actually makes the world a better place?


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 08:53 AM

The one that makes the world a better place the one true God


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Tam the man
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 08:57 AM

the one who made this world the one true God


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 09:50 AM

Bad spelling is the bane of all web searching. According to the heading of this article, the spelling is Ferdie Flores, but the article also uses the spelling Ferde. The anonymous writer admits that his/her own web site helped spread the false rumor that Flores was in danger, yet he/she seems highly pleased that they got hundreds of responses!


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 10:24 AM

If only you could agree - that's you, the Jehovah's Witlesses, the Catholics, the Jews, the Moslems, and all the rest, who all believe in this One True God- to stick to worshipping him/her/it and not beat each others' skulls open over exactly HOW you should worship the said god.

Or as it says in the Bibble "How these Christians love one another".


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Subject: RE: Ferdie Flores
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Nov 05 - 10:30 AM

Paul, perhaps it isn't necessary to use this thread to renew the Mudcat Religious Wars?

~Susan


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