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Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the north #4

DigiTrad:
FALSE SIR JOHN
FALSE SIR JOHN 2
LADY ISABEL AND THE ELF-KNIGHT
LADY ISOBEL AND THE ELF KNIGHT
OUTLANDISH KNIGHT
THE KING O' SPAIN'S DAUGHTER
THE LONELY WILLOW TREE


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Kentucky version of Lady Isabel (8)
Penguin: The Outlandish Knight (13)
Seeger/Outlandish Knight version? (39)
Lyr Req: Castle by the Sea (Lena Bourne Fish) (8)
meaning: 'beechen gold' (from False Lover John) (4)
(origins) Origins/Authenticity:Lonely Willow Tree (Child #4) (14)
Version of Lady Isabel and Elf Knight (6)
Tune Req: Outlandish Knight (Fred Jordan) (6)
Lyr Req: Outlandish Knight (Cyril Tawney) (10)
question on Outlandish Knight (82)
'Italian' Lady Isobel (6)
Lyr Add: The False Young Sailor (10)
Chords: Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight (5)


Roberto 01 Nov 05 - 09:51 AM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 01 Nov 05 - 01:05 PM
Mary Humphreys 01 Nov 05 - 01:20 PM
Anglogeezer 01 Nov 05 - 01:46 PM
GUEST 01 Nov 05 - 05:08 PM
Malcolm Douglas 01 Nov 05 - 07:47 PM
Mary Humphreys 02 Nov 05 - 04:27 AM
Roberto 03 Dec 05 - 01:46 PM
Herga Kitty 04 Dec 05 - 01:04 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the north #
From: Roberto
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 09:51 AM

Please, help me correct and complete this transcription of this beautiful version of Child #4, from Catch me if you can, songs from Cornish Travellers, Veteran. The gaps are in stanzas 2 and 11, but please check the rest as well. Thank you. R

There was a man come from the North land
He came here one day unto me
He said he would take me right to the North land
And that's where he would marry me, marry me
That's where he would marry me

You get me some of your mother's ...
And some of your father's gold
And take me tonight to your father's stable
Where nags do stand thirty and three
Where nags do stand thirty and three
You take me tonight to your father's stable
Where nags do stand thirty and three

I got him some of my mother's ...
And some of my father's gold
I took him that night to my father's stable
Where nags do stand thirty and three

Mount on, mount on, my pretty Polly
Mount on, mount on – cried he
Till we came down by the wide river side
Those words ... to me

Pull up, pull up, my pretty Polly
Pull up, pull up – cried he
For six pretty maidens I have a-drowned here
The seventh now you shall be
The seventh now you shall be
For six pretty maidens I have a-drowned here
The seventh now you shall be

You take me off your rich silk gowns
And hand them over to me
For it looks a pity such fine gowns as that
To be rotted all in the salt sea, the salt sea
To be rotted all in the salt sea

You turn your back to the facing of me
In viewing those flowers so gay
For it isn't s fitting such ruffian as you
For a naked young woman to see

He turned his back to the facing of her
In viewing those flowers so gay
She put her arms around his waist
And bundled him in the salt sea, the salt sea
She bundled him in the salt sea

O take me out, my pretty Polly
O take me out – cried he
O take me out, my pretty Polly
My bride then you will be, will be
My bride then you will be

Lie there, lie there, you false hearted man
Lie there in the place of me
For six pretty maidens you have a-drowned here
But the seventh have drownded thee
The seventh have drowned thee
For six pretty maidens you have a-drowned here
But the seventh have drownded thee

She mounted on her lily-white steed
Hang her hold of her .. gray
She got by to her father's house
Three hours before it was day

Now don't you flutter nor flatter Polly
Nor tell no tales of me
Your cage shall be made of the glittering gold
And your door of the best ivory
Your door of the best ivory
Your cage shall be made of the glittering gold
And your door of the best ivory


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the north #
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 01:05 PM

Roberto I can offer some help:

v2) You get me some of my mother's foom(?)

That's what it sounds like. The usual word is fee but whether this is a traveller word for it or not I don't know. It could even be a dialect pronounciation of food. (Same word of course in verse 3)

v4) Those words that he shouted to me

v7) For it isn't a fitting such ruffian as you

This is just a typo in your version above.

v11)And got hold of her damber(?) gray

damber: the word is usually dapple or dappled, so again I don't know if this is a dialect pronounciation.

v11)She got back to her father's house

I think back rather than by

v12)Now don't you flitter nor flutter Polly

I think this is what she sings here.



The rest of your transcription (as usual!) seems perfect. Perhaps someone else can shed a light on my two dubious words.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the nort
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 01:20 PM

I have listened to the song and can only concur with what Mick has written above. I don't know what foom is - in the third verse it sounds more like food, but I could be mistaken. I think that the word damber may be damver, but again I could be wrong. I am sure it means dappled though, as it is in most other versions of the song. The persons to ask are Vic Legg or Vivienne Legg, both of whom will be familiar with the songs, as they are from the Renals family.
Mary


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the nort
From: Anglogeezer
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 01:46 PM

The original versions may be found at :-

"The Child Ballads"

http://ling.lll.hawaii.edu/faculty/stampe/Oral-Lit/English/Child-Ballads/child.html#4

I would suggest ".. mother's fee .." and ".. dappled grey .."

Jake


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the nort
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 05:08 PM

When a song with Scottish dialect origins is sung by a Cornish traveller I think some corruption of the text is very probably. The traveller tradition is to sing what it sounds like to you, not to try and analyse the content.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the north #
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 07:47 PM

No "Scottish dialect origins" for this one, which clearly derives from the independent English broadside sets (Holger Nygard, for one, considered the song to have come to England from France, and later to Scotland. My own feeling -unsupported by concrete evidence- is that the Scottish Lady Isabel forms are a separate but pretty much contemporary import).

Neither are the texts quoted from Child (URL above) "originals" (so far as can be told); just earlier forms. See the many other threads on this song-family for more information.

Take Mary's advice and ask for help, not from us, but from those nearer to the horse's mouth.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the nort
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 04:27 AM

Roberto,
I have found some contact information for Vic Legg on the web. I have sent you a PM. Let us know the outcome of your research.
Mary


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the north #
From: Roberto
Date: 03 Dec 05 - 01:46 PM

I've followed Mary Humphreys' advice. I didn't get in contact with Mr. Vic Legg, but I've bought his CD, I've Come To Sing You A Song, and here is the text of his recording of the Outlandish Knight. I think the transcription is Ok. R

Outlandish Knight
Vic Legg, I've come to sing a song, Veteran VT129CD, originally released on cassette, 1994.

There was a young man came from the North lands
He came here one day unto me
He said that he'd take me back to the North lands
And that's where he would marry me, marry me
And that's where he would marry me

You get me some of your mother's food
And some of your father's gold
You take me tonight to your father's stable
Where nags do stand thirty and three
Where nags do stand thirty and three
You take me tonight to your father's stable
Where nags do stand thirty and three

I got him some of my mother's food
And some of my father's gold
I took him that night to my father's stable
Where nags do stand thirty and three

Mount on, mount on, my pretty Polly
Mount on, mount on – cried he
We rode till we came to the wide riverside
These words then he shouted to me

Pull up, pull up, my pretty Polly
Pull up, pull up – cries he
For six pretty maidens I have a-drowned here
The seventh now you shall be, shall be
The seventh now you shall be

And take me off your fine silk gown
And give it all over to me
For it seem such a pity such fine gown as that
To be rotted all in the salt sea

You turn your back to the facing of me
In viewing those flowers so gay
For it isn't s fitting such a ruffian as you
For a naked young woman to see

He turned his back to the facing of her
In viewing those flowers so gay
She wrapped her arms around his waist
And bundled him in the salt sea, the salt sea
And bundled him in the salt sea

O take me out, my pretty Polly
O take me out – cried he
O take me out, my pretty Polly
My bride then you shall be

Stay there, stay there, you false hearted man
Stay there instead of me
For six pretty maidens you have a-drowned here
The seventh have drownded thee

She mounted on the milk-white steed
And led the dapple gray
She rode till she came to her father's house
Three hours before it was day

The parrot up in the window so high
A-viewing the lady did say:
I'm afraid that some ruffian has led you astray
That you tarried so long away

Oh, don't you flitter nor flutter, Polly
Nor tell your tales upon me
And your cage shall be made of the glitters of gold
And the door of the best ivory, ivory
And the door of the best ivory


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: charlotte renals' a man from the north #4
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 01:04 PM

The other possibility is to contact Pete Coe, who recorded both Charlotte and Sophie Legge (same applies to Roberto's other thread on Barbara Allen).

Kitty


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