Origins: In Babilone

Subject: Origins: In Babilone
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 12:32 AM

Recently I went through our Cathalic songbook looking for tunes which would sound good on my fretted dulcimer. A tune called "In Babilone" was a good one. The more I played it, the more I visualized people dancing to it.

You may be familiar with it as "Blessed Feast of Blessed Martyrs." I consider it strange that such a pleasant tune seems attract bloody lyrics. Anyhow, if you don't recognize it, here's a site with the tune:

www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/o/honcedes.htm

The tune was first published in "Oude en nieuwe Holl­antse Boer­en­lit­ies en Con­tra­dans­eu (Old and New Dutch Pea­sant Songs and Count­ry Danc­es)," cir­ca 1710;

Ha! Country dances! Just as I suspected.

If you are looking for good tunes for your folk instrument, then try this one.

Linguists: what sort of word is "Boerenlities"?

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 02:20 AM

Hi, Leeneia -

I see the tune was also used for a hymn called God, We've Known Such Grief and Anger - written in response to the tragedy of september 11, 2001.

I'm sure "Boerenlities" (peasant) comes from the same root as the German word "Bauer" (farmer) and the Dutch/Afrikaans word "Boer" (peasant).

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 02:38 AM

Also Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus. In Babilone is sung by the Japanese, as "Ame naru shu Iesu no" (Sanbkia, no. 259), translation of "Jesus, Refuge of the Weary," the original of which is Girolamo Savonarola's "Giesu sommo conforto." Listen to my midi transcription here.

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 02:53 AM

Hail, thou once despised Jesus, too.

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 05:39 AM

According to OREMUS HYMNAL INDEX of Tunes, the following words are set to "In babilone."

Holy Spirit, ever dwelling
Hail, thou once-despised Jesus
Hark, the sound of holy voices
Lord, who in thy perfect wisdom
Praise to God for saints and martyrs
See the Conqueror mounts in triumph
Sing of Mary, pure and lowly

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 09:20 AM

When I started learning the whistle I was short of tunes, so I used a hymnbook to find some more. Eventually I figured out how to read the music there. In Babilone was one of the very first tunes I ever worked out from the dots - it was in Songs of Praise as See the Conqueror mounts in triumph.

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 10:46 AM

Hello.

Yes, Joe, I think you're right. After I posted, I started thinking about German words rather than English, and "Bauer" (farmer) and "Lied" (song) suggested themselves.

Another lyric to this tune is "There's a wideness in God's Mercy."

Snuffy, congratulations on teaching yourself to read music. It's a skill that opens many doors. How's the whistle playing coming along?

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 11:38 AM

So it is. And Contradanseu must be Contradansen, obviously.

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: Bard Judith
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 02:11 PM

Boerenlietjes / Boerenlities:

Boer = 'Farmer/Peasant' ('en' is the plural) Liedjes = 'little songs' - so 'folk songs' is just about right...

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 06:29 PM

Leeneia,

nearly thirty years later I'm still "not good, but good enough"

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 10:18 AM

Hi, Snuffy. That's how I am on the piano.

I own a number of whistles and recorders, and I'm convinced that recorders plays better, with a bigger range, with more sharps and flate, and more in tune. Once in a while a recorder isn't made right, but that happens with any manufactured product.

So if you want to improve your "whistling", I suggest you try the recorder.

Wilfried: I imagine that the mistaken "contradanseu" happened because the original title was handwritten and the top of the n was allowed to drop down, making it look like a u.

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: masato sakurai
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:38 PM

The Dutch title is "Hoor een heilig koor van stemmen", the original text of which seems to be written by Christopher Wordsworth.

On the text & music (Sorry, I can't read it), from here (pdf file):

Gezang 109: Hoor een heilig koor van stemmen
Tekst
Ter gelegenheid van zijn herdichting wijdt Barnard in het Compendium enkele
prachtige kolommen aan de dichter van 'Hark the sound of holy voices', Christopher
Wordsworth (1807-1885). Het volgende citaat is meteen een toelichting op het lied:
'Dat lied is vol van poëtische vaart en toch zonder enige pretentie. Want van de
geleerde bisschop die bijna zijns ondanks en toch zo volop dichter was stamt deze
uitspraak: 'Het is de eerste plicht van een kerkliedschrijver de gezonde leer te
onderwijzen en aldus zielen te redden'. [...] Hij is ook van mening dat kerkliederen in de
eerste plaats op de 'heilige Schriften' geënt moeten worden (en dus niet op de
catechismus of het bewustzijn der gelovigen), in de tweede plaats dan op de
geschriften van de christelijke oudheid en in de derde plaats op de oudkerkelijke
poëzie. Het is, zo mag men wel samenvatten, de waarheid die Christopher Wordsworth
boven alles gaat, de ware kerk, het ware geloof, de ware betekenis van een tekst, de
wetenschappelijke waarheid, dat was voor hem: de schriftuurlijke waarheid...! Maar wie
zijn lied voedt met de Schriften, ook als hij oprecht meent vóór alles theoloog en pastor
te zijn, wie het om de geloofswaarheid gaat ,die is daarmee aangesloten op een zo
warm en levend, ademend organisme, dat zijn vertolking niet koud en abstract, niet
leerstellig en dor kan zijn, mits hij een sprankje muzisch vuur en een artistieke ader
heeft. En dat had Christopher Wordsworth.'
Melodie
Het kan wonderlijk gaan met een melodie. De melodie van dit lied is oorspronkelijk
Hollands, maar we kennen haar meer vanuit de engelse traditie. Daar heeft de 'tune'
de naam 'In babilone' meegekregen. Zo vinden we in de gezangenbundel van onze
zusterkerken in Cardiff boven deze melodie de aantekening vermeld: 'In babilone.
Dutch tradional melody. Korintiërslected by Julius Röntgen 1855-1932'. Er zijn meer
melodieën die een dergelijke reis gemaakt hebben: van Nederland naar het buitenland
en dan later weer terug.
De melodie ligt heel goed in het gehoor, mee doordat de eerste twee regels herhaald
worden, zowel in regel 3 en 4, als ook in regel 7 en 8. Niet te vlug gezongen krijg je
inderdaad de indruk van een Engelse hymn.

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 03:55 PM

I have now moved on the Phase 2. Having seen that "Oude en nieuwe Holl­antse Boer­en­lit­ies en Con­tra­dans­en (Old and New Dutch Pea­sant Songs and Count­ry Danc­es), cir­ca 1710" has one great tune in it, I now want to see the entire book and find out if there are any other good tunes in it.

I've tried finding it on the Internet, but no soap.

Anybody have any ideas on this topic?

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: masato sakurai
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 06:36 PM

From the British Library catalogue:

System number    004564485
Title    Oude en nieuwe hollantse boerenlieties en contredansen. [Facsimiles of the collections published in Amsterdam c. 1700-1716 under this title by Estienne Roger and Pieter Mortier.] Introduction, notes and bibiliography by Marie Veldhuyzen.
Publisher/year    [Amsterdam] : Frits Knuf, 1972.
Physical descr.    obl. 8.̊
Series    ( Facsimiles of rare Dutch Songbooks ; no. 3)

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: masato sakurai
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 06:42 PM

The problem was the spellings. Available online.

Oude en Nieuwe Hollantse Boerenlieties en Contredansen

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: masato sakurai
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 07:03 PM

See Boek 1 Pagina 11:

X:1
T:In Babilone 40
M:C
L:1/4
K:C
B:Oude en Nieuwe Hollantse Boerenlieties en Contredansen, Boek 1 Pagina 11
c2 B A|G2 c2|d2 c d|e2 c2|f2 e d|e2 d c|B c d B|c4|
c2 d e|f2 e2|d2 ^c2|d4|d2 e f|g2 c2|d2 c B|A2 G2|
c2 B A|G2 c2|d2 c d|e2 c2|f2 e d|e2 d c|B c d B|c4|

Subject: RE: Origins: In Babilone
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 11:34 PM

Ah, masato, you are as wonderful and helpful as ever. Thanks so much for finding that website. I have opened my music program and an playing the pages already.

Sometimes I think you have magic powers.