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Draught Guinness
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Subject: Draught Guinness- Just another Keg Beer? From: GUEST,Folkiedave (still cookieless) Date: 07 Nov 05 - 06:36 AM In another thread, Magician has written "best Guinness outside of......." etc. I was going to question this anyway but decided to start another thread. I know some folkies rave over Draught Guinness but how can a landlord make a difference to a pint of Guinness if they keep it at the correct temperature and keep the pipes clean? Surely it comes in sealed metal bins? No need to store it correctly for example. No need to tap and spile it. No need to do anything really. My position is that so-called Draught Guinness is really a (mostly overpriced) keg beer, (generally) served far too cold which all self-respecting people would treat with contempt. It would not sell if it were called Keg Guinness. And of course it is one of the most heavily advertised products I know. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Paco Rabanne Date: 07 Nov 05 - 06:43 AM I prefer a 1997 Rioja myself. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 07 Nov 05 - 07:24 AM The way the Guinness is served does I believe have a bearing on the final product, if (as often happens in England) the glass is stuck under the tap and the Guinness poured from a height until the glass is full the pint you get does not seem to be as good as when the glass is filled properly as per the Guinness method, tilt glass hold up to tap 3/4 fill glass allow the settle top up by pushing the tap away from the bar staff, allow to settle before consuming. Having drunk more than one pint of Guinness on both sides of the Irish sea, there is definitely a difference even now it is all brewed in Dublin. It may be the pressure in the barrels differ from one county to another, a rumour I had heard before today. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: MartinRyan Date: 07 Nov 05 - 07:28 AM Defintely too cold in most places. Some pubs still keep a "soft" tap with a slightly higher temp. This improves things - but not an awful lot, I'm afraid. It takes longer to settle so the barman's default position is to ignore it! Regards |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Stu Date: 07 Nov 05 - 07:38 AM Good point Folkiedave, although I count myself as a real ale man but never considered Guinness as being keg. In reality it is difficult to get a decent pint of Guinness outside Ireland. All the other stuff is brewed under licence and this makes a difference to the flavour of the beer. There are plenty of stouts, porters or entires that are brewed by small breweries that are a much better pint than Guinness. Try Titanic Stout - deep roasted malt flavours with a bitter hoppy taste in the mouth and a deep, dark complex finish that reminded me of coffee and plain chocolate. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: mooman Date: 07 Nov 05 - 07:43 AM The UK Guinness bears no comparison to the real thing. However, it does seem that some pubs serve a "better" pint of it. I think someone at Edinburgh University published some research on this! Peace moo |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Paul Burke Date: 07 Nov 05 - 07:52 AM It's been served far too cold for over 30 years now, but, seriously, in Ireland they'll drink almost anything. Do they still serve that horrible Smithwick's that was passed off as bitter back then? Or the "Bass" that tasted like soap and vinegar? I used to reckon Murphy's to be kinder on the palate, and Beamish as rather thin and acidic. I think a century of clever advertising has made Guinness and Irish culture almost synonymous, even in their own eyes, but I haven't drunk the stuff myself for years, at least when an alternative is available. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: mooman Date: 07 Nov 05 - 07:56 AM Interestingly, I prefer Murphy's myself although the company of musos I play with consider this to be a sacrilege ("Guinness Light" being one of the kinder terms!) Peace moo |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Leadfingers Date: 07 Nov 05 - 08:04 AM Point of interest - ALL Guiness sold in UK is now brewed in Dublin so its only the way its served (and the cleanliness of the pipes) that will make any difference ! I am also a 'Real Ale' man , but will cheerfully drink Guiness instead of any of the (usually) revolting 'smooth flow' bitters that are currently so popular in some pubs ! |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 07 Nov 05 - 08:29 AM Sorry to disillsion you lad's but all Guinnes sold in the UK is now brewed in Dublin and has been for some months |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 07 Nov 05 - 08:33 AM I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly I must learn to spell disillusion correctly |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Stu Date: 07 Nov 05 - 08:47 AM Thanks for the heads up on the fact all UK Guinness is now brewed in Dublin. I stopped drinking the stuff ages ago as I moved onto real ale, but may try a pint in the session on Friday night and see how it is. Smooth flow bitters are indeed to be avoided at all costs - they are insipid imitations of the real thing. The Salopian brewing Company also do a superb 5% porter called 'Entire' that is excellent, all though too strong for a session beer for me. I was in South-West Ireland once when we went into a bar in Kenmare where there was a Murphy's promotional night going on, and they were giving the beer away free. Suffice to say it doesn't get much better than that. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: JennyO Date: 07 Nov 05 - 09:07 AM I had a Smithwicks thrust upon me in a pub in Dublin 10 years ago - nasty stuff. As quick as I could, I ordered a Guinness, which was what I had really wanted in the first place. It was the best Guinness I had ever had. I don't know if they still sell Smithwicks, but if they don't, it will be no great loss. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: mooman Date: 07 Nov 05 - 09:38 AM That's changed then since I last had a Guinness in the UK. I must try another next time I'm over to see if it's improved. Peace moo |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Peace Date: 07 Nov 05 - 09:39 AM Draught Guinness, not Soldiers! |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Dave Hanson Date: 07 Nov 05 - 10:25 AM I like it but it's still nitrokeg, just got more flavour than the rest. eric |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST Date: 07 Nov 05 - 10:39 AM So far it seems that the answer to my original question is the landlord can do nothing much to alter the taste of a pint of Draught Guinness. I am a great fan of bottled stout and so on and of course other breweries make excellent draught stouts and porters. I refer to the exquisitely named "Dorothy Goodbody´s" for one!! And whilst I am happy to defend real ale etc. that wasn´t really the reason for this post and deserves a different thread if there has not already been one. It is simply this genuflection (almost) to Draught Guinness, and this idea that there are fine nuances between the various pubs that serve and sell it. Especially since it is all brewed in the same place and is designed (presumably) to travel. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Wolfgang Date: 07 Nov 05 - 10:56 AM Even if the Guinness served in Britain is brewed in Dublin, the ingredients could be different (for instance for legal reasons). Last time I tried (about a year ago) the Guinness in Britain still was undrinkable. The Guinness in Ireland, however, I like. With rare exceptions, the Guinness we get over here is the British Guinness. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 07 Nov 05 - 12:05 PM Drink American beer like Old Style. right out of the Midwest. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 07 Nov 05 - 12:15 PM Watered-down weasel-piss Martin, as is all American so-called 'beer'. Complete, utter, frozen-water, tasteless shite. S:0) |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Don Firth Date: 07 Nov 05 - 01:16 PM From "The Red Green Show" (originates in Toronto): The Word Game. Red was giving the clues as usual, and I can't remember now who was trying to guess the secret word, but I think it was Harold. The secret word was "water." Red: This is something you drink.Most American mass-produced beer should be poured back into the horse. But some of the micro-breweries are turning out some really good stuff. Red Hook brewery in Seattle is pretty good. My current favorite is Moose Drool (I'm not kidding! That's what's on the label!), put out by a micro-brewery in Montana. A good, robust, dark beer. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,cookieless Folkiedave Date: 07 Nov 05 - 01:16 PM Wolfgang, I note you say the ingredients COULD be different. Any evidence that they are? I am not convinced. I believe it is the same stuff and it still tastes equally "whatever" wherever it is drunk. (And I do not include the bottled stuff and certainly not the stuff brewed in Nigeria. As for American beer - I subscribe normally to the above prejudices. I used to believe "Why is American beer served so cold? To distinguish it from Gnat´s piss!" Having said that - I visited Oregon and was pleasantly surprised by the range and quality of the craft brewers there. Wolfgang makes a suggestion that the ingredients are different for the UK and Ireland. Does anyone know that this is so? And then people will say the Guinness at (e.g. Fagan´s/Dog and Partridge in Sheffield) is better than anywhere else. Likewise the Irish will make a name for particular bars having better Guinness than others. If so why? Personally I can´t see it. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Raggytash Date: 07 Nov 05 - 01:17 PM Wolfgang, I don't know where your Guinness come from now, but it is not London, the Park Royal Brewery there closed in the summer http://www.ivo.se/guinness/faq.html Stigweird You may find something on this to answer your original question |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Clinton Hammond Date: 07 Nov 05 - 01:28 PM The best pint of Guinness I've had was from my keg in my basement.... |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Peace Date: 07 Nov 05 - 06:21 PM "Watered-down weasel-piss Martin, as is all American so-called 'beer'. Complete, utter, frozen-water, tasteless shite." I agree. But then, the first dozen always tastes that way. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Cluin Date: 07 Nov 05 - 06:29 PM They pee in the stuff exported. Sorry, but that's tradition. Can't mess with it. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Shanghaiceltic Date: 07 Nov 05 - 06:47 PM The Guinness in the Blarney Stone was imported from Malaysia but they had a lot of complaints so changed to the original stuff from St. James's Gate, much better. I prefer Beamish if I can get it. There are a few pubs here that stock it. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,Folkiedave Date: 08 Nov 05 - 05:52 AM Johnny Handle used to tell the story of how gnats - I think it was went down a sooty well - and were frightened by something (can´t remember what it was now). Anyway the resultant mixture of gnat´s piss and soot became Guinness. Geordie Folk Tale. Non-better. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Stu Date: 08 Nov 05 - 06:18 AM Thanks for the link Raggy - great stuff and very informative. Can a pint of Guinness vary between pubs? Perhaps it can. Some places pour the Guinness as if it was a normal pint of bitter. Go to Ireland and see how they pour it there (order two if you are thinking of having a third and or order the next one when you are halfway down the first) they take their time, pour just over half and let the beer settle completely before finishing the pour. As stated, the cleanliness of the pipes etc must make a difference, so it is entirely possible differnent pubs could make a difference. As for American beer, when we were in New York we found a microbrewery bar smack in the middle of midtown Manhattan, right under the skyscrapers that brewed a superb pint of bitter on site. I can't remember the name right now but was in the vicinity of 56/57th Street and Broadway. So it's not all Duff! |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,folkiedave Date: 08 Nov 05 - 07:15 AM We have now had this stuff about pouring Guinness twice in this thread, and how it makes a difference to the taste. Cannot see it myself. Will someone explain the mechanism by which how Guinness is poured makes a difference to the taste? About the same way as constant adverts is my guess but I am willing to be persuaded. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 08 Nov 05 - 08:27 AM Perhaps the volume of gas in the liquid has an effect, don't know for certain. What I do know is when in Ireland as I was 3 weeks ago the stuff goes down like milk, whereas that seldom happens in the UK |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 05 - 09:20 AM I was told recently by an excellent licensee (Tom at Fagan's, Sheffield) that the reason that he gets complimented on his Guinness is that he sells a lot of it. So it's more to do with throughput than pouring. And it figures that in Ireland the Guinness goes quicker as there aren't so many people drinking bitter. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,folkiedave Date: 08 Nov 05 - 01:20 PM Now that does make sense.................. And Tom does have a great reputation,,,,,,,,,and for his Guinness as well. He flawlessy renders the Roman Soldier Song with a "sinister, dexter" chorus. In the middle he does a "Roman soldier goes up to a bar and says ´Give us a Martinus´. The barman says ´Don´t you mean Martini´ and the soldier repies ´If I want more than one I´ll tell you´. When people laugh at this (!!) Tom says "You can tell the grammar school boys". Dave |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 08 Nov 05 - 02:22 PM Danny's by Johhny Handle Get yersels to Danny's Sup all the beor ye can! Ten-an-a-half* for a pint o' Scotch Wey, hinny man ye cannit gan wrang! Noo Aa've supped Fed at all o' the clubs Broon at the Penny Wet Cocktails at the posh Tork's Heed Danny's is the best beor yet! Get yersels to Danny's Sup all the beor ye can! Ten-an-a-half* for a pint o' Scotch Wey, hinny man ye cannit gan wrang! You might like auld black Guinness, Soot an' vinegar neat! That's aal reet fer Irishmen But Danny's can't be beat! Get yersels to Danny's Sup all the beor ye can! Ten-an-a-half* for a pint o' Scotch Wey, hinny man ye cannit gan wrang! Noo there's Tolly Cobbold or dish-watta Cameron's and Tetley's tee But they taste like nitric acid And it's Danny's beor for me! Get yersels to Danny's Sup all the beor ye can! Ten-an-a-half* for a pint o' Scotch Wey, hinny man ye cannit gan wrang! So follow the old Blue Star me lads Follow it through an' through Caal in the leek trench afterwards And show what it can do! Danny's! *obviously dated ... |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,back on cookies tomorrow Date: 08 Nov 05 - 07:10 PM Handle wrote some great drinking songs. Another that comes to mind is: "They´re Knocking them Doon the Old Pubs and Plastic All the Go". Keep going Johnny...... |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Don Firth Date: 08 Nov 05 - 07:29 PM Actually, Handel wrote a few good drinking songs, too. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST, TBPL Date: 08 Nov 05 - 07:49 PM Was that "Water Music" aka Budweiser Light ... |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Jimmy C Date: 08 Nov 05 - 08:59 PM I am a guinness drinker, always was and probably always will be, however the pint in Ireland is far superior to any I have had in Montreal, Boston, Toronto, Quebec City and many other places as well. The main reason is that Guinness should be consumed within 10 days of brewing, this is possible in Ireland whereas in other places it may take up to a month or more before it is consumed. This means that exported Guinness has preservatives added and this does alter the taste. In addition to this, the method of drawing a pint may have a small effect on the taste but mostly it is the preservatives. I should mention that I have had many a great pint in Toronto, but the best Guinness I ever had was actually bottled Guinness CMortons Red Heart Guinness), served in Kelly's Cellars in Bank street, Belfast, one of my first stops when I go home. I also think that many places are serving it at too low a temperature, this also affects the overall taste. The good thing about all this is that if there was no Guinness, there will still be lots of excellent ales, porters, stouts etc to keep us happy. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:16 PM Actually I don't drink. At least not any more. And bragging about beer is just stupid. How drunk you get is your problem, not mine. Most of you probably smell like beer and piss I would think, along with carrying a load in your pants. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Don Firth Date: 08 Nov 05 - 10:42 PM The trick, Marty is to enjoy a beer on a warm afternoon, or some convivial time with a few good friends, not to get totally blasted and puke your guts up. That's why most people in this thread are talking about such things as flavor. Moderation, my boy, moderation. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Terry K Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:14 AM There are more urban myths about Guinness than any other beer, usually perpetuated by people who rarely drink the stuff. The significant difference between Guinness drunk in Ireland (North or South) is that they serve it much colder than they do in England - unless you opt for the Extra Cold in England. Which means that it doesn't taste so full as it does in England. Which probably means that those who prefer it in Ireland don't like the taste as much as those who prefer it in England. The serving "ceremony" is more to do with tradition. Go to the Guinness stand at the Boat Show and you will find that they pull half pints and let them stand just the same as they do in Ireland, topping them up as they are sold. But that is only because they are so busy, with all the pseuds having their once-a-year pint and banging on about whether it a good one or not. I would think that it would be difficult for Guinness pipes to become "dirty" because Guinness is totally dead, being blanketted under nitrogen, an inert gas. Dirty pipes certainly contribute to real ale going off, but that is because the stuff is full of live organisms. The other favourite myth is the belief that it is a full bodied, heavy drink. It is not. It is a pleasant lunchtime tipple, light and easy to drink, not too alcoholic so good for an extended session, and not at all hard on the head. Nor on the bowels, which is another popular myth....... cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Paul Burke Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:31 AM There are plenty of anaerobic bacteria. Nitrogen won't affect those, and the favours they produce are probably even worse. Most myths about Guinness concern the "thickness" of the beer, as in the guy who broke his glass, but had time to ask the barman for another before any spilled. Or writing your name on it. But this really happened- in a pub in Toxteth in the 70s, my brother was drinking a pint between tunes, and gabbing. He reached out for the glass without looking, pushed it off the table- and caught it in mid- flight with an amazing reflex grab- still not looking. Pub full of hardened Scousers, all with jaws on the floor. Poor MG, HE smells of sanctimony. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Stu Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:48 AM "along with carrying a load in your pants" Tit. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Gurney Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:50 AM I read somewhere that there are different brews of Guinness, depending on how far it has to travel, and only the Irish pint is the original formula. This might tie up with JimmyC's post at 8.59. Mind you, it would be in Liverpool a sight quicker, and having had a smoother journey, than it would be in, say, Kerry. Now what was that old joke about the rear-gunner on a Guinness drey? |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Strollin' Johnny Date: 09 Nov 05 - 05:46 AM So he doesn't drink, but he claims to know about beer. Just goes to prove what a fart-in-a-bag ole MG is. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 05 - 06:54 AM Probably stopped drinking becuase he drank too much and couldn't handle it |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: MartinRyan Date: 09 Nov 05 - 08:32 AM Now, Guniness Foreign Export Bottles - that's a beer! Regards |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: ossonflags Date: 09 Nov 05 - 11:56 AM Everything was crap after "Worthington E", and for bottled beers "possibly "Samual Smiths Old Brewery Brown" - in my estimation a better drink than the very overated "Newky Broon"- but they don't make it any more and "Worthington White Shield" that you can still get. |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Dave Swan Date: 09 Nov 05 - 12:07 PM There are several factors under the landlord's control which can alter the taste of any beer, ale or stout. These are: Cleanliness of beer lines (a clean line is a happy line), cleanliness of glassware (thoroughly washed and rinsed) gas pressure and composition, storage and service temperature, proper rotation of stock. Any beer will taste better when fresh, well cared for and served properly. Although Guinness does taste different from one country to another, I'm pretty sure that no preservatives are added to export Guinness.. D |
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Subject: RE: Draught Guinness From: Jimmy C Date: 09 Nov 05 - 04:37 PM Dave, The preservatives that may be added to the stuff would be as a result of various Food and Drug administration policies in countries other than Ireland. Or it may be that Guinness loses some of the flavour when it is more than 10 days old. I have no proof but I am sure I heard that preservatives were added to the exported stuff. I know that Cadbury's Chocolate for instance does not taste the same in Canada as it does in England. Canadian authorities insist on certain ingredients to be added to meet their specifications etc. The Canadian Cadbury's is definitely not as smooth and/or creamy as the stuff in the U.K. That is why many ex-pats are willing to pay more for imported Cadbury's rather than the local product. |
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