The Halliard - any memories of this group?

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 02:27 AM

Best wishes to you too, eric. Good to hear from you again. Desparate, no, just sad to see the thread slowly drift away,
                                                          Nigel P.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Jeanie
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 05:09 AM

Just been visting your now up-and-running website.
Merry Christmas to you, and all good wishes for 2006.
Don't worry, Nigel, if the thread appears to drift away - It will re-emerge for sure when your next CD is issued soon in 2006. Be assured, there will be a lot of people awaiting its arrival.

With every good wish from an Essex old-timer,
- jeanie

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 23 Dec 05 - 09:38 AM

Happy Christmas jeanie, good to hear from you again. Dave,Nic & I will be more than glad to see the final CD released. Must be something of a record (as in Guinness Book!)....made in 1968....released in 2006 (we hope).
       Very Best Wishes to you & all members of the "60s Elite",
                                             Nigel Paterson.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 04:35 AM

Hi Nigel, I'm just listening to Maddy Prior singing ' Boys Of Bedlam ' arranged by Nic Jones and Dave Moran, brilliant.

eric

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 12:38 PM

Hi eric, Happy New Year. "Boys of Bedlam" is a great song isn't it? I enjoyed playing the mandolin part on our own recording of the song probably more than any other. The wonderfully angular rhythms & a melody that serves the words so well. When you have a moment, have a listen to our version & let me know what you think. And by the way, I think Maddy does a great job with it too!!
                                           Nigel P.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 06:44 PM

One last refresh for 2005, Happy New Year one & all,
                Dave,Nic & Nigel (The Halliard)

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 31 Dec 05 - 10:11 AM

Same to you all.

eric

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Paul Richardson
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 08:32 PM

I used to play in a rock band but once went with a mate to see the Halliard playing at the Boat House Folk Club near Matlock, Derbyshire -changed my musical direction (also discovered Dylan about this time)and eventually became part of of a Derby based folk band called Saga. We even went on to make a few albums (of variable quality!)
Thing is, Nic Jones bowled us over and we booked him often as possible at the folk club we consequently ran in Uttoxeter.
I still have tapes of Nic made on those nights.
Nic brought old lyrics, old times, old legends,to mean something in this day and age Timeless.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 07:34 AM

Happy New Year, Paul. Always fascinating to read about those "life defining" moments. Keep those tapes of Nic safe....have you condidered having digital copies made? You might find a visit to www.nicjones.net or www.thehalliard.com of interest.
      What music do you play & listen to these days?
      Here's to a music-filled 2006,
      All the Best,
                  Nigel P.(The Halliard)

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Nean Stoddart
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 04:01 PM

I too was at Brentwood School (1956-62), but cannot ,unfortunately remember Nigel Patterson or the Halliards . But i can affirm that Paul |Simon was living in Brentwood around that time. He was staying with Dave Mac Causland at his family's house and sung at the Brentwood Folk club that Dave was running at the Railway Tavern opposite the station. Dave had set up the club in 63 or 64 after we had met Paul in Paris I think he sang regularly there, almost as resident.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Nean Stoddart
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 04:03 PM

I too was at Brentwood School (1956-62), but cannot ,unfortunately remember Nigel Patterson or the Halliards . But I can affirm that Paul Simon was living in Brentwood around that time. He was staying with Dave Mac Causland at his family's house and sang at the Brentwood Folk club that Dave was running at the Railway Tavern opposite the station. Dave had set up the club in 63 or 64 after we had met Paul in Paris I think he sang regularly there, almost as resident.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,NIGEL PATERSON
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:42 PM

Nean Stoddart, forgive me for stating the obvious, but this is a thread about remembering The Halliard & not about Paul Simon appearing at Brentwood Folk Club. To add insult to injury, you've spelt my name incorrectly & pluralised Halliard (no "s") & to cap it all, you've posted twice!! Redeem yourself by visiting www.thehalliard.com
                   Happy New Year,
                                 Nigel PATERSON.(one "t")!!

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Nean Stoddart
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 03:01 PM

Yes, I do apologise for the mis-spellings, And for submitting twice.An error.I was under the impression I would see the preview before submitting. I did correct some bits but missed the names.I tried to remove the post, but couldn't see how. Sorry ! And as for the subject of the thread, well, I came into the forum via a google query about the history of Brentwood Folk Club. And came upon the mention of Paul Simon in a posting by you, Nigel , on 16th Nov.,and by Lanfranc on the 17th.So now I know something about the Halliard too. Thanks

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 11 Jan 06 - 12:05 PM

Nean, all you have to do now is order a copy of "The Halliard, Broadside Songs" from Mollie Music & we'll be friends for life!! (why isn't there a smilie around when you need one!!)LOL,
                                 Very Best,
                                          Nigel P.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Jan 06 - 09:55 PM

If I were to tell all the stories I have been told....regarding this name....all would be lost.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 13 Jan 06 - 08:59 AM

Slightly belatedly...Happy Birthday to Nic & Dave (only two days apart) from The Halliard.
       May you both have many more,
       Love & Best Wishes,
                         Nigel P. (also from The Halliard!)

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:37 AM

Did The Halliards ever play at St Osyth's College of Education Folk Club Clacton-on-Sea Essex?

Chris

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 01:14 PM

I've just come across this thread now it's been resurrected. The Halliard were just before my time, but their influence was still strong and they were often spoken about.

I too was at Brentwood School, although several years below them. My first attempts at performing in public were at Brentwood School Folk Club - one of the attractions was that it was run jointly with the girls' High School down the road (Brentwood was boys-only at this time). Griff Rhys-Jones has written about the school folk club from this era in his autobiography, but thankfully I don't get mentioned!

I then began going to the folk club at the Castle where Geoff and Pennie Harris were a big influence on me. I also regularly visited Blackmore and Chelmsford folk clubs. For a while I attended a guitar evening class run by Nigel.

Besides being fantastic musicians, the contribution the members of Halliard made to the Essex folk scene and the influence they had, both directly and indirectly, on aspiring performers like myself is incalculable. So thanks for everything.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: brother
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 04:51 PM

I am sure that I saw Halliard at Stockton Folk Club, this was when the club was in the Stork and Castle. As the club celebrated 40years at the Sun Inn recently it was obviously a long time ago .But I still remember what a great group they were.
Trevor Bond

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: pavane
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:06 AM

I was getting interested in the folk club scene (in Essex) in the late 1960's, and was just too late to see the Halliard. I saw Nic, probably at the club in Collier Row, around this time, but work then took me away, ending up in Swansea where I recorded Nic' gig at the Ivy Bush in Pontardawe in 1973 (might even have been 1972, I didn't note the date).

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 12:40 PM

Howard & Trevor...thank you for your kind words. Really didn't think we'd be remembered with such affection after all this time! Much to look back on with a real sense of a 'job well done', although I don't think we realised it at the time! With any luck, some of our Broadside Ballads will still be sung long after we've departed this mortal coil!
                                             Nigel Paterson (mandolin, The Halliard)

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Howard Fullbrook
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

I have great memories of the Halliard, before and after the arrival of Nic! They were regular performers at the Farnborough Folk Club, where I was a resident, plus they played at my own club In Fleet, Hampshire a few times. Somewhere (back in England) I have some very 'rough' recordings of them playing at Farnborough.
The Broadside Ballads certainly are still being sung by many of my friends from those wonderful days.
Howard Fullbrook (currently in NZ)

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Howard Fullbrook
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 04:40 PM

One thing I DO remember is that The Halliard toured the clubs in a MINI car! Must have been a bit cramped for Dave and Nic...guess you were OK Nigel?
Howard

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:17 AM

Yes Howard, I was...sort of! Only Dave & Nic could drive, so I always got the back seat, but had to share it with two guitars, a mandolin, a tenor recorder, three sleeping bags & anything else that wouldn't fit in the boot. Touring the folk clubs in the 60s was not all glitz & glamour & in a Mini, even less so! But, we often worked on new material as we drove. It was usually possible to find enough room to play the recorder &/or my mandolin, so Dave & Nic sang in the front & I sang & played in the back! On more than one occasion, we performed songs we had worked on in the car, the same evening...a bit hairy sometimes, but I don't remember any great disasters!
                         Nigel P.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:57 AM

Howard, is there any way of digitising those 'rough' Halliard recordings & attaching them to an email? Very happy to PM you with my email address. I remember the Farnborough & Fleet clubs very well...amongst some of the best in which we played...well organised...responsive audiences...fond memories indeed,
                                                             Nigel P.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:36 PM

They were recorded on a portable cassette, the first model that Phillips marketed. They were then transferred to reel to reel. My good friend and fiddle player, Peter Lambert, put some of the tracks to CD a few years ago. My problem is that I'm in New Zealand until January 2012 and my copy of the CD is in the UK! Sadly, I haven't got the tracks on my laptop. Peter now lives in Perth, WA, it might be possible for him to post you a copy from there! If you give me a postal address I will ask him if will do it. He was a big fan of The Halliard so I'm sure he will!

I ran the Fleet Club, the Farnborough Folk Club (at The Old Ford, North Camp) was run originally by Alec Burbidge and then Geoff Barker, sadly neither of them are still with us. Fond memories indeed!

Regards,

Howard

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Howard Fullbrook
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:38 PM

Nigel,

My email address is [e-mail]

H.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:32 AM

Memories? Cor blimey!!! I turned up at the Old Ford in North Camp sometime towards the end of 1967 after Alec Burbridge had been on at me for ages to turn up. I had met Alec and his group (all dressed in flowing luminescent orange shirts!) at the 4As Youth Club in Aldershot and then kept seeing him on the bus. This was my first ever visit to a folk club. And the Halliard were on! I loved it! And 40+ years later I'm still involved because of that evening, though it's English and French dance music now, with some French and Occitan songs (see my bands GIG CB! and Mistral on YouTube:
GIG CB! at Gennetines and Mistral at Gennetines)
I remember you, Nigel, on mandoline, Dave Moran (or was it Moron? Blame that Rip Rippingale!) and Nic. And 'The Calico Printers Clerk' has stuck in my memory all this time (not the words sadly, though I've now got your book). Wonderful chorus songs, with great tunes and some research and history. The Halliard, and Nic Jones, made such an impact on me I named my son Nicholas :-)
And Howard too - all those years ago! Doesn't time fly?
I think I've filled up my box now. More later
Chris Shaw ([e-mail])

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 15 Dec 10 - 11:52 AM

Chris, really enjoyed reading your reminiscences, although the 'Moran jibe' does wear a little thin after all these years! Dave was the driving force behind The Halliard. Most of the research into the Broadside Ballads that became the bulk of our repertoire was guided by Dave's knowledge of where the originals were housed, coupled with his ability to vocally improvise melodies which supported the words so skilfully. True, Nic & I further developed these tunes, but the essence of the melody was often Dave's alone.
            Sending you Season's Greetings & wishing you a happy & peaceful New Year,
                                  Nigel P.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Phil Curtis
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 03:52 PM

Many happy memories of The Halliard -- recall having spent many evenings seeing them in folk clubs around S E England. Will probably upset the purists by saying I think "It's the Irish in me" is rather good. I purchased a copy in Guildford (1969?), cost me 19 shillings, still play it

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 08 Feb 11 - 02:13 AM

Phil, you certainly haven't upset THIS 'purist'! When we recorded 'ITIIM', it was felt to be a means to an end, a way of getting our feet on the recording ladder. Saga, who released the album, wanted to capitalise on the popularity of Irish Folk Song, particularly the success enjoyed by The Dubliners with 'Seven Drunken Nights". We still included one or two Irish songs in our gigs, so recording an 'Irish' album wasn't too much of an artistic trauma! After we had established our Broadside repertoire, there was a feeling in the group that 'ITIIM' didn't represent the 'true spirit' of The Halliard, so we tended to dismiss the album as a sort of 'one off necessary evil'. Now, more than forty years on, I agree with you, it really isn't such a bad album at all. I can't speak for Nic & Dave, but I certainly view it with nostalgic affection & if I'm really honest, there's a bit of pride mixed in too. You never forget your first album!
                                     Nigel.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 01:01 PM

Barbara Thompson ( Barbara Astley)
I was a resident singer at a folk group near Cannock, Staffordshire from 1967 - 1971 and The Halliard were guest singers there on one occasion.
   Dave spent a day with me and taught me such a lot. For a long time I had recordings of the songs he and I sang together on my old tape recorder but that has unfortunately been defunct for many years. I have often wondered what happened to him as we lost touch. They were a fantastic group.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:23 AM

Hello Barbara,
                        Very good to hear about your fond memories & read your kind words. Dave is alive & well & currently living in Ireland. He has just celebrated one of those landmark birthdays...I daren't reveal which one, he'd probably kill me! Nic lives in the south west of England & I reside in east London. We're all retired, but Music in one form or another, is never far away
                        So glad you got in touch after all these years,
                                                                                                       Nigel (mandolin) The Halliard

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 09:22 AM

Barbara, forgot to ask...your old tape recorder may be defunct, but do you still have any of the recordings you made with Dave?
                                                                Nigel.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Paul Richardson
Date: 20 May 11 - 12:48 PM

I first saw The Halliard at The Boat Inn, Matlock, Derbyshire in 1968. I'd previously been in a semi-pro rock band, ended up in a folk group called Saga. Consequently booked Nic Jones at a couple of folk clubs I was involved with up until around 1980. Taped a few of the sessions also. Rate him up there alongside Martin Carthy.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 May 11 - 01:13 PM

I never had the pleasure of hearing The HALLIARD live; but some time in early to mid-70s Jon Raven sent me a vinyl 33 rpm album, on his own label whose name I fear I have forgotten, called "The Halliard & Jon Raven", which I reviewed very favourably in The Times Educational Supplement, whose folk critic I was at that time. I have just looked, but the Lincoln Imp [whom we blame for all such catastrophes in our house, as he resides on my desk at the end of a paper-knife] seems to have eaten this album! So what I write here is from memory.

It had a white sleeve. It did not consist of JR and the Halliard singing together, as the name might suggest, but of half the trax by Jon & half by the group. The lineup was definitely Dave Moran, Nigel Paterson, & Nick Jones ~ whose name, I distinctly remember, was spelt thus at that time; or, anyhow that was how it appeared on the sleeve.

Is my memory correct on these matters, Nigel? And could you remind me what the label was called, please?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 May 11 - 01:30 PM

Further to above post: it was obviously before Nic went solo and made a big impact with his Trailer label records. That was when I met him. He & Julia, & their children, subsequently became friends of Valerie's & mine as we lived in N Cambs villages only about 12 miles apart & became on drop-in terms. Then he had the accident. I remember we went on visiting while he was convalescent, until they moved to Yorkshire and subsequently, I believe, to Devon. Those delightful children will be grown up now. I so remember Helen, then about 6, exclaiming in delighted tones "That's my Daddy" as Nic was singing at Cambridge FF, & being carried about by me (can't quite remember why) at Norwich, maybe a year later ~ it was while the Bellamys still lived there, as I recall my, & Fred Woods, editor of Folk review, all somehow being accommodated in their charming but minute house opposite the Norwich & Norfolk Hospital for Alex Atterson's festival which I was reviewing, I think for The Guardian that year.

Sorry for drift ~ but all Jones-relevant, maybe?

~M~

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 21 May 11 - 04:12 AM

Dear Michael,
                      In response to your first post, you're correct in almost every detail. The album cover was essentially white with a monochrome collage of some broadside ballads. As to the spelling of Nic(k)'s name,in all subsequent references to the album I can find (I don't have an original copy either!) it is spelt correctly without the 'k'. The vinyl album was released in 1968 on the Broadside label (BRO 106) with, as you say, the tracks shared between The Halliard & Jon Raven, but again, as you state correctly, Jon did not sing with us. A modified version of the album entitled: 'The Halliard:Jon Raven/The Jolly Machine' was issued on CD in 1997 (Mike Raven MR 77). This link will provide you with a little more detail:
http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/nic.jones/records/thehalliard.html

Is there any chance that you still have a copy of the TES review you wrote all those years ago? I have a small Halliard archive, but reviews, good or bad, are very rare items. It would make a valuable addition.
                      Nic & Julia do indeed now live in Devon, Dave is currently in Ireland & I'm in sunny East London. Are you aware that on the 28th May at the Queen Elizabeth Hall, on London's South Bank, there will be a concert entitled: 'In Search of Nic Jones'? Nic will be making an appearance, surrounded by a coterie of musician friends...should be a truly memorable & emotional evening.
                      Fascinating to read your posts,
                                                                            Very Best Wishes,
                                                                                                          Nigel Paterson.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 May 11 - 05:14 AM

Many thanks for above post, Nigel. I have PM'd you in reply.

Regret am engaged on 28 May so shan't be able to go to what sounds like a fascinating occasion on S Bank; but do please remember me to Nic & anyone else around who might remember me from all those years ago!

All best

~Michael~

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 21 May 11 - 06:42 AM

Remember you to Nic & Julia & anyone else with sufficiently long memories, I certainly will! And sincere thanks for the PM,
                                                      Kind Regards,
                                                                              Nigel.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 May 11 - 06:51 AM

Sufficiently long memories indeed, Nigel. Have just realised that review appeared 41 years ago! more than half of my long life.

Where does the time go?

~M~

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 May 11 - 06:58 AM

Anyhow, my filing system can't be that bad, eh! Have emailed it to you & hope will arrive safely.

~M~

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 21 May 11 - 12:48 PM

After 41 years I'm amazed & impressed that you can lay your hands on the cutting so readily. Yes, it has arrived safely in my inbox & has been swiftly transferred to my Halliard folder. And all this in less than one day...ain't technology a wonderful thing!
         As to where the time goes, I'm just as mystified as you, but go it does, but it's moments like this that make time's passing just that little bit easier to cope with,
                                             I wish you Well,
                                                                        Nigel.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Lynda
Date: 30 May 11 - 07:35 AM

Have just returned from a weekend in London where we attended the "In search of Nic Jones" concert at QEH - a very enjoyable and emotional evening. My husband and I were regulars at the Chelmsford Folk Club in the 60s and 70s (indeed it is where we met) when it was above the White Hart and later in the Saracen's Head. I was at Chelmsford High School for Girls when I started going and was thrilled when Dave Moran came and gave us a talk on folk music at school! We still have our copy of It's the Irish in Me too.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Jacqui
Date: 30 May 11 - 02:28 PM

I first heard the Halliard at Bolton Folk Club held at the Balmoral
on Bradshawgate. There was a repeat booking as your first visit was a terrific night and collected a host of new fans. I also cherish
my saga signed copy of It's the Irish in me, incidently it's been signed Nick Jones just to verify with Michael - spelt at the time.

Thanks for the memories.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 May 11 - 02:30 PM

Thank you, Jacqui. When did Nick drop the 'k', I wonder? Before he started recording for Trailer, certainly.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 30 May 11 - 05:32 PM

Nic was always Nic from age 0 - his full name being Nicolas didn't require a K in place of the H when shortening, and only strangers insisted on adding a K. He doesn't remember when the K got tacked on, possibly on joining the Halliard when his name went into print.

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 May 11 - 12:53 AM

So, then, why did Nic add a 'k' when signing for Jacqui? To accord with what the record sleeve said, or ...?

Don't forget to drop me an e-mail, Julia - see other thread which I have refreshed.

mgmyer[at]keme.co.uk

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 May 11 - 01:38 AM

... and moreover, the name is always spelt with an -h-, &, until the advent of Mr Jones on to the Scene, has always been abbrevd with a final -k. What made the Jones family {from year 0 you say; so it was obviously a parental not a personal decision} depart from this template?

I ask, not truculently, but with genuine curiosity. Like Arthur Clennam, the hero of Little Dorrit, it is just a thing of mine that "I want to know, you know".

~Mic~

Subject: RE: The Halliard - any memories of this group?
From: Nigel Paterson
Date: 31 May 11 - 06:09 AM

Lynda & Jacqui, good to hear from both of you. Nic's concert certainly was a very special evening. Afterwards, when Nic was signing CDs, I got to sign a few too...really made my night! Interesting that you both mention 'It's the Irish In Me'. As a first album, it really didn't represent what we were trying to achieve in the folk clubs, but it gave us a 'foot on the ladder', & four decades later, it still sounds fresh & full of life...I have a great fondness for it.
                  Very Best Wishes to you both,
                                                                      Nigel Paterson.