PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 11:10 PM

"Lordy Miss Claudie" - Was a sung by Little Richard (I think it was him wasn't it?) around the time we 60-year-olds were teenagers.

Thinking as a dance caller - and this is pure speculation on my part -"Pick a bale of cotton" following a direction like "Jump down turn around" sounds to me a lot like a filler. As in: "Chicken in the breadbox pickin' up dough".

Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton'
From: Ferrara
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 12:27 AM

Azizi wrote, I certainly feel that that school district showed a remarkable lack of foresight in selecting "Pick A Bale Of Cotton" as representative of African American folk culture.

I don't think for a minute that the choir director intended this to be a statement about cotton picking, or about the African American experience. I suspect it was just seen as a folk-based choral piece with an up-tempo. In other words they just thought the song was cute, it fit the program, and it would sound good and the audience would enjoy it.

I think it was a bad choice. If their intention was to show an African-American folk song, or a song in the context of slavery, there are plenty of spirituals that have been given choral settings. If they just want a familiar American folk song, there are plenty of Stephen Foster songs that would be enjoyed by the entire audience. This is a school, folks, not a folk music festival. Schools need to take a lot of issues into account.

On the other hand, if you refused ever to sing anything with potential ethnic insults in its content, I suspect you'd have to drop about a third of American folk music. IMHO, though, those songs should be reserved for occasions where folk traditions and/or history are central to the event. I don't believe China's family -- or anyone else -- said the song should be banned, just that it was a bad song for a concert at a school.

You can carry political correctness too far, and in our world that happens way too frequently. Still, consideration for other people's feelings counts too. For instance, those of us who love Stephen Foster's songs usually give them a good scrubbing before we sing them. Too many of the words, while they were accepted even as late as the early 1940's, are not acceptable now. I have a CD sent to me by a Civil War re-enactor, as a thank-you for suggestions I made about re-phrasing some of Foster's more objectionable wording. These issues are worth giving some consideration when you choose what you will present to a particular group.

Respect and disrespect are very important issues for people whose ethnic group has been on the receiving end of a lot of disrespect. Sometimes it's worth bending over backwards to be considerate. The song felt like an insult to one family, and I don't think they were way out of line (I am sure they have no ideas of its origins and derivation, only of how it sounds to them), and I am glad the school decided not to perform it. I don't see anything in this song that is worth defending the school's right to perform it; there is no obvious moral high ground here on either side, just a compromise over people's feelings.

I recently talked with someone who was hurt badly by a "cute" song with really negative implications about their ethnic group. The singer would never have knowingly and deliberately insulted someone else, but thought the song was "cute" and didn't realize their audience included someone who would be affected badly by it. She has decided to stop singing that song. Period. Sometimes a good rule is, when in doubt, leave it out.

Rita F

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 04:13 AM

This appears to be a song originated by black writers and black performers. So, the argument seems to go, it is insensitive for a "predominantly white" choir to perform it.

How might the reverse argument go down?

As a piece of hypersensitive stupidity this event is on a par with "Festive Seasonal Greetings of the religion of your choice"!

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 05:41 AM

Hearing Leadbelly singing this song is a stupendous life-affirming experience. It is profoundly moving, profoundly exciting, and other people have leaned this song from his singing and shared a little of the magic by singing it themselves. To try to deny this experience to others(especially children) seems a depressingly sad ambition. having said that, this is a song about an experience in life whwich is not fun. So, yes, children being encouraged to sing it should know a little backgrounmd. But they absolutely definitely should be encouraged to sing it.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 01:10 PM

Greg, the children should learn also that the 'experience in life' was not confined to African-Americans. European-American (white) farmers, share croppers and seasonal field hands also enjoyed the warm, sunny days picking cotton, from Arizona to Kansas to Florida, before the machines took over.

I guess my wife should feel pc pangs whenever she uses one of her favorite expressions- "Now wait just a cotton-pickin' minute!"

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton'
From: Ferrara
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 01:43 PM

There's no reason kids can't learn the song -- in context. No context was provided in this situation.

I tried earlier to make the point that very likely no one in this situation knew the origins of the song, whether it was originally "written" or "collected," whether it was a minstrel song or a prison work song, etc. The African-American family felt the song perpetuated a racial stereotype and degraded the slave experience. The school personnel didn't think about it at all, and didn't do any research after the protest was made.

That would all be helpful but ... as you can see, we don't have that kind of thinking here.

This is not a sophisticated venue! Schools use folk songs in choral settings all the time. I have never heard of a choir director who saw them as history or folk expression, they are just a piece of music in this context and are not used as a vehicle for teaching history -- in the chorus classes, at least. If it had been put in its historical context in the first place, maybe the African-American family would have felt differently.

The question of whether an African-American originated the song really is way off to the side. The question never came up and probably no one involved thought to ask where the song came from.

(Remember, people like us who pay this much attention to folk music are very rare. That's why Mudcat has been so valuable and important to us all. We can find each other.)

The underlying question of why Americans don't learn about folk music, and worse, don't teach the history of slavery in a deeper, more thoughtful context, or try to teach that it has left very painful emotional baggage that people still deal with, belongs below the line, right next to "how has the world gotten dumbed down so far in half a century?"

I wish it were different. But that is up to the history and other teachers and won't be changed in a chorus class. I think the family did well to make a strong statement by taking their kid out of the class. They might have done it all better, but this way at least people are thinking a little bit more on the subject.

Maybe they'll even care enough to find out where the song came from. And learn that cotton picking was not exclusively a slave task. And learn more of the history of farm workers. Maybe.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 01:58 PM

"Now, ask yourself which type of political agenda has had this kind of influence on education. Liberal or conservative?"

Does it really matter? Schools should be giving facts and not following some party line. While it does seem like conservatives are trying to force their values into the classroom (witness the new battles with evolution and creationism), I like to think that most teachers do not use the classroom as a soapbox. Maybe I was lucky, but schools in my day taught me to think for myself and how to find information.

If we have to pick sides, I would hope that liberal education (not liberal or conservative politics) are taught in schools. Based on the definition of the word, we would like to see students questioning data and ideas and not following a conservative approach which would seem to stick to one side of the story.

I may have misunderstood the point you were trying to make Martin, and if so, please forgive me.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 03:18 PM

Kaleea, Lead Belly also did a bang-up job on "Cotton Fields (Back Home)"
Roots Index
or go to Lead Belly tracks (21 of them): Tracks

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 05:05 PM

I grew up amongst Southerners, both black and white, who had picked cotton before coming North to work in the factories--Like all farm work,it was hard work and the pay was bad.

Universally, they were proud of that they'd picked cotton--and regarded the strength that the work required, and its humbleness as important factors in building character and moral fortitude. They were skeptical of those who hadn't done the same kind of work.

They also would have shaken their heads at the above mentioned Mr. Montgomery, because(and this is a paraphrase of a comment that I heard many, many times) they felt that he was ashamed of them, and didn't want to be reminded of the the kind of work that they had done to educate him and give him opportunities that they never had--

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: David Ingerson
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 04:53 PM

Thanks, M.Ted, for that illuminating perspective. Your post shows how important ones perspective is, and, as a corollary, how important it is to understand others' perspectives.

That's one reason I appreciate your forthright contributions, Azizi. Even I, as a European-American, am embarrassed by step 'n fetchit scenes in some of the movies I've seen (and some of the people I've met). I'm sure that white guilt plays a part in those feelings. But I'd also like to point out that I feel just as embarrassed, or maybe disgusted, when whites engage in the same subservient sorts of behavior. Of course, it's not entirely the same. We must remember we are dealing with a whole group of people who have had to struggle against oppression and racism and that backdrop must be considered when dealing with problems like this.

That brings me back to the point I made above: broadly, that education is much better when it is inclusive rather that exclusive. Including the various perspectives of different communities or groups, whether cultural, racial, or economic, will make for a richer and more personally relevant education.

David

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Terry K
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:45 AM

At the end of the day, it's a good song.

Some people may be offended when they analyse the words and find deep meanings which affect them and their culture.

On the other hand, I would be deeply offended if any good song had to cease to exist because of some people being offended by it.

There's a lot of stuff going on out there that I find offensive, but I just have to accept that life's like that.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: GUEST,MikeofNorthumbria(sans cookie)
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 07:29 AM

Hi Folks,

A lot of wisdom in this thread – I wish more people could read it. The level of historical ignorance displayed by many people today - including not a few politicians - is very depressing.   I say this not just as a history teacher, but as a concerned citizen. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana.)

On the subject of slavery and guilt – many people don't realise that for centuries this was very much a two-way street. For example, in the largest church in Reykjavik, you can see a plaque commemorating 25 Icelanders who were kidnapped by Moorish pirates, and eventually ransomed by the King of Denmark.   

It's a long row from Morocco to Iceland, and the Corsairs rarely got that far. But throughout the middle ages, and well into the 1600s, they regularly raided English coastal villages and carried off anyone they could catch to sell in the slave markets of North Africa. Prisoners who had rich or influential relatives usually got ransomed – the rest stayed. Some historians estimate that, over a period of several centuries, almost half a million English people were enslaved in this way. (Though I've not read than any of them picked cotton.)

People with legitimate grievances in the here and now have every right to seek redress, but in my opinion they do themselves no favours by invoking the sufferings of their remote forbears in attempts to monopolise the moral high ground. All of us, if we look back far enough, have ancestors whose behaviour we would now see as regrettable, as well as ancestors who suffered injustices at the hands of others.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Cool Beans
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:05 AM

What a great discussion. By the way, I live in the school district in question, about a mile-and-a-half from Anderson Middle School. My kids aren't invovled; they graduated a few years ago.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:32 AM

I sometimes sing a version mocking the highly-paid singer who wouldn't know hard work if he fell over it, with verses like:

Me and my hairstylist gonna pick a bale of cotton
Me and my make-up artist ...
Me and my sound man ...
Me and my voice coach ...
Me and my personal trainer ...
Me and my feng shui consultant ...

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Tweed
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:47 AM

Leadbelly was neither a slave nor a sharecropper. His people owned land along the Louisiana/Texas border since after the civil war. He no doubt picked cotton, just like us farm boys baled hay in the midwest. A shit job either way, but put some money in the pocket. (a 1/2 cent a bale, if I remember right). It's a work song designed to make a shit job feel easier than what it was. I can sort of see where they're coming from, but it's history and illustrates a way of dealing with whatever shit job you may find yourself doing. I think mebbe they're thinking too much about this thing, but I'm not an African American and therefore have little insight into what that's really about.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 12:00 PM

"The level of historical ignorance displayed by many people today - including not a few politicians - is very depressing."

The trouble with people today is that we speak in absolutes. We fail to look at both sides of the story. I agree, our educational system can lack perspective and unfortunately fails to teach the whole story.   On the other hand, we tend to dismiss peoples feelings and ignore how our actions will impact on others - solely because we feel that "right" is in our corner.   

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:29 PM

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Great line from "Cool Hand Luke", ain't it?

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:31 PM

you got it... now part of our folklore

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:35 PM

"our educational system can lack perspective and unfortunately fails to teach the whole story"

True, Ron. However, something most people fail to take into account is that schools do not set their own curricula. They are set by the State or Province. Now, schools have inhereted the responsibility of teaching kids about crossing streets, traffic lights, body cleanliness and a gang of other things that should likely have been taught in the home. The fact that a person doesn't know something is not always the fault of a school. It is sometimes the fault of a society. IMO.

The above is not directed at you.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: GUEST,Cary Ginell
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 03:19 PM

I sent this letter to the Superintendent of schools, their PR spokesperson, the NAACP, and the Detroit News that reported the story.

I live in Thousand Oaks, California and saw the article from Associated Press in our local paper concerning your problems with the song "Pick a Bale of Cotton," which had been scheduled in your folk music choir program. As a folklorist, educator, and music historian, I deplore your removing this song from the program simply because of a few complaints from people who apparently are unaware of the song's history and context. "Pick a Bale of Cotton" (also known as "Jump Down Spin Around")was certainly not a slave song, it was what is known in folklore as a "playparty song," one that was performed during the labor of picking cotton, which was done by both blacks and whites in the South before machinery took over this laborious chore. The lyrics have nothing to do with slavery, nor can the song be traced back that far. The song is attributed to Huddie Ledbetter (aka "Leadbelly"), one of our country's most honored African-American folk singers. Leadbelly was an inmate in the Texas prison system in the early 1930s when he was interviewed at length by folklorist John Lomax, who got him a release because of his knowledge of African-American folk songs. He proceeded to take Leadbelly on tour promoting these songs, of which "Pick a Bale of Cotton" was one. Urban folk music societies learned many traditional American folk songs from Leadbelly. Eventually it became a staple in the repertoires of Pete Seeger and Harry Belafonte, two individuals not known for performing "racist" songs.

The ignorance shown by the parents in your district as well as your own inability to defend our American musical heritage is a symptom of a wider malady in this country regarding our social history as it relates to music. If you're going to cut "Pick a Bale of Cotton," why stop there? Let's forget all about Stephen Foster and his attempts to tame the harsh, racist songs of minstrelsy by showing sympathy for slaves and their culture. Let's cut George Gershwin's "Porgy and Bess" because of its rude depiction of African-American dialect; let's eliminate "Ol' Man River" from Jerome Kern & Oscar Hammerstein II's "Showboat," our first groundbreaking American musical, because it speaks directly of slavery. And while we're at it, let's eliminate every spiritual born in the South in the 19th century, which also remind us of the slaves' plight.

I taught American music history to students from 1st to 6th grades for two years in the Conejo Valley Unified School District here in California. During this time, I taught children about where the music came from, historically and socially. I taught about the history of spirituals, the deplorably racist entertainment that came out of minstrelsy, which lasted until the 1940s in this country. I taught about where the blues came from, played sanctified preachers' sermons, gospel music, how ragtime emerged from elements of slavery, and jazz as well. They absolutely loved the class, would tell their parents about it, ask to hear more of the music, learn the songs and sing them back to me. They learned what a "hootenanny" was, they learned about Tin Pan Alley, about the origins of the "cakewalk," and how African Americans played a part in the history of recorded sound.

Leadbelly's music is as important to today's students as "The Star Spangled Banner" and "God Bless America." If we had an educational system that encouraged rather than discouraged teaching students about our own music, kids would be a lot more sensitive to what is going on around them not only in the schools but in everyday life. Don't kill off our heritage. It's what should be making us proud to be Americans and what we've done to overcome our prejudices.

Feel free to pass this letter on to your students, your local NAACP chapter, the press, and anyone else who would be interested. I will be happy to address any questions about this issue. Music education is my life and I can't stand seeing ignorance and blind political correctness erase a rich and valuable part of our musical heritage.

Cary Ginell

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: beardedbruce
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 03:27 PM

Hear, Hear!

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Joybell
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:27 PM

Cary, thank you. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:40 PM

I am not in favor of bans, but sometimes people need to realize that they are subject to folks electing to "vote with their feet," and if one starts to hear that a large number of people are contemplating doing just that-- this might be a piece of information one might want to consider in choosing material.

It's very complicated when one culture borrows a piece of another culture, and makes it its own. The process of this occurring is subtle.... and not about blame, IMO.

But I would ask people to think about this-- if someone takes an icon you hold dear, and bastardizes it-- how do you feel about that, yourself?

Is it so hard to understand why people might not appreciate folks popularizing an item without regard for its original setting and sense? Assume for a moment that the objections have nothing to do with your motive.... How many of the singers of this song, in today's world, are actually familiar with picking a bale of cotton? Is the song really going to be used to make the job easier, as might have been the case in the original setting of the song?

It's this atmosphere of blame/defensiveness that precludes harmony. I might not mean to run over you with my car; but if I do it, don't you think people might think it only natural if you yelp?

Why do we say "This isn't what I meant" instead of hearing that someone has first said to us, "This hurts me really, really deeply"?

~Susan

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: GUEST,martin gibson
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:23 PM

Ron, it's really the same kind of politcal correctness found in the schools today that have made it so offensive to say "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

The schools and society itself, driven by far-left liberal ACLU types have made it so we can't even think something without offending someone or some special interest group.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Peace
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:30 PM

"I sent this letter to the Superintendent of schools, their PR spokesperson, the NAACP, and the Detroit News that reported the story."

Great. Excellent letter. It will end up in the 'square file', but you spoke well, even if no one listens.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:32 PM

Martin, I think it is mixing apples and oranges.   I don't disagree with you about political correctness creeping in. People need to rely on their own common sense and morality. Screw the doctrine. I just skip saying "under god" if it bothers me.   Loyalty oaths bother me to begin with.

I feel that teachers need to continue to challenge kids to think for themselves and not follow some silly doctrine that has us thinking in terms of left/right.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:46 PM

I can only feel disappointment and disgust with an educational system that has failed to teach children about the social and industrial history of their country. Why aren't children and their parents familiar with what was involved in picking a bale of cotton? Why don't they know "what I meant"?
Cotton was a large part of American (and English) history. Not only should we know about the field workers, black, white and aboriginal, but all those who worked in the mills and sweatshops and who turned the cotton into fibers and then into the clothes we wore, the cloths we put on our tables, the shelters used by our explorers, soldiers and recreationists, the cotton seed and oil used in feed and industry. Now much of the cotton industry has been passed to the so-called Third World, but that does not excuse ignorance about industries that involved hand labor.

Should we eliminate all song that accompanied hard, hand labor? A good letter, Cary. But the ignorance that you write about shouldn't exist.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 06:00 PM

it's about re-writing history so some won't be offended by the truth

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 07:05 PM

Martin-
As one who was around when the McCarthyites put "under God" into the pledge, I can only say that the addition did nothing at all to the scansion.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton'
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 07:06 PM

Cary, that letter says it all, and I really hope the people you sent it to read it.

Communication works in both directions. If someone tells me they're offended by a song, I'll try to understand why. If they make a real attempt to explain, I'll listen and continue to try to understand. If it comes down to 'I really don't know why it bothers me. It just does,' the offense may lie only with them, somewhere in that tendency we all have to be offended by things that other people think should offend us - even if nobody can explain why. Perhaps the person being offended might then question why they ARE offended just as the non-offended have questioned their own non-reactions.

In the end, even if the offended remain offended and the people who don't understand still don't understand, people had the opportunity to question their own feelings. Something, at least, has been accomplished.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Scoville
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:07 PM

I've got mixed feelings about Mr. Ginell's letter. Ideally, I wouldn't want to ban the song because I agree that kids ought to be taught more about the origins and context of it (about almost everything, really). The best way to take any sting out of something like that is to put it in perspective.

On the other hand, we all seem to agree that nobody bothered to do that (and, since it's not included in standardized testing, they aren't likely to remedy that failure). I have to admit I find it particularly offensive that the school is in a mostly white, Northern city that had nothing to do with the cotton trade in the first place, and had not given much thought to the meaning of the song beyond its face value.

So, as sick as I am of everything being PC-fied, I'm also sick of people appropriating cultural material without any regard for, or apparent interest in, its origins and more intimate meanings. Yes, there were plenty of white people who picked cotton--I hear that Tammy Wynette kept a bowl of it in her house to remind herself of how far she had come--but the song is African-American. Old stereotypes die pretty hard.

I have to admit I get a annoyed when the occasional Western movie or TV episode features Quaker characters and always seems to depict them either as cowards (male) or intolerable prudes (female) because we are pacifists and traditionally wear plain clothes, without incorporating any meaningful aspect of our beliefs.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: mg
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 11:46 PM

What is the history of this town, since you have established it has no connection with cotton? I did try to do a google search but my computer is so slow that it wouldn't give me anything...dairy? cherry farms? logging? mining? I bet you anything that whoever settled there had some incredibly hard jobs to do, of course, not under the conditions of slavery, but I would bet that people there know about hard work. mg

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 12:21 AM

Berkley is a suburb of Detroit, 95% white, 0.7% black, 1.3% Hispanic. Median household income $57,000 plus. Bachelor's degree, 35%. Ancestry- German and Irish largest groups.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 10:20 AM

In their next performance, they'll be doing the "Horst Wessel" song.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 10:31 AM

"If someone tells me they're offended by a song, I'll try to understand why. If they make a real attempt to explain, I'll listen and continue to try to understand. If it comes down to 'I really don't know why it bothers me. It just does,' the offense may lie only with them"

That is very true, however in this case the offended parties did give their reasons - and it was more than "I really don't know why it just does".

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 10:34 AM

The choice of song was NOT a good choice. They'll know better next time, right? RIGHT?

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Tam the man
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 10:48 AM

I'm a lefty here in Scotland and yet I hate the P.C brigade as well.

I just wish they would listen to themselves.

Tom

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Tam the man
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 11:03 AM

there's a oraganisizan that I belong to called the Ayrshire CND

and they're PC and they say WAGED AND UNWAGED instead of working and not working, oh by the way I'm NOT a member of the New Labour Party either

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: s&r
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 11:46 AM

This is fascinating


Stu

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: GUEST,Cary Ginell
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 01:06 PM

Not giving up on this yet. I've received a response from the superintendent of schools for the Michigan district that Anderson Middle School belongs to. She sent me a copy of the speech she gave right before the concert. Here it is:
************

Hello, my name is Tresa Zumsteg and I am the superintendent of the Berkley School District. I would like to welcome you to our wonderful folk music concert this evening. Our students have worked very hard to provide you with a quality performance that demonstrates their ability to sing folk songs from different cultures.

I know that most of you are aware that we had some controversy concerning the song, Pick a Bale of Cotton. And I want to address this issue with you. Whether you believe I made the right decision or not when I pulled the song, I want to share with you my thoughts.

As educators, it is our responsibility to teach children about our history and our culture. Music, of course, plays a very important role in both our history and culture. Sadly, there have been events in our past that have not made us proud. Music reflects our past and our culture for better or for worse.

For this particular concert, our music teachers organized the concert around a folk music theme. Their goals included educating our children regarding the roots of folk music. Folk music is one way for people to remember events that occurred in their history and their culture. Another goal, of course, was for our students to become more skilled in their singing abilities. There was never any intent on the teachers' part nor on this district's part to make any of our students or their families feel uncomfortable.

However, what I have learned in the past couple of days is that while all music has a historical context; music also has a very personal and emotional context.

For example, I find the song Amazing Grace a very comforting song as it was the song played at my mother's passing. My friend, who lost a brother in the 9/11 attacks, finds the song Amazing Grace very painful as it was often the song that accompanied the televised pictures of that awful event. While I find the song a comfort, she finds the song painful. Our personal histories play an important role in how we interpret music.

The song, Pick a Bale of Cotton is a well-known "work song" created by African-Americans during times of slavery. Indeed, famous African-American songster Leadbelly, is the person who made the song famous during the 20th century. It is written that he believed the song to represent strength, endurance and resistance to oppression.

Even acknowledging this history, an individual, because of his personal history, may interpret this song, with its upbeat tempo, as mocking the back breaking work of picking cotton.

I don't believe that we can judge one's personal response that a particular song may evoke. Just as I find the song, Amazing Grace comforting and my friend finds the song painful.   I know as a school district we can certainly define the educational reasons for choosing our musical selections, but I do think we need to be careful not to judge another person's individual response to a song.

I knew with this particular song, Pick a Bale of Cotton that we were not going to be able to eliminate the strong personal responses to this song by describing the history of the song. Keeping the song in the concert would have focused our concert on a controversy that appears to have no quick resolution rather than having the focus on the singing skills of our children. And while I believe very much that we need to continue the discussion on why this song evokes such strong reactions from people and what are the underlying causes for these reactions, I feel that this evening should be for enjoying our children's singing abilities. Thank you.
**************
Cary here once again,

I've responded to this backsliding by contacting Smithsonian Folkways Records and asking them to forward a copy of a Leadbelly CD with full explanations of the songs to the little girl in care of the middle school. Short of that, I would, with SF's permission, make a CD copy of an early 10" LP Folkways put out after Leadbelly died of some of his seminal songs. The girl should be able to make up her own mind whether or not the songs are racist. She's 11 and already has a good sense of history (4th and 5th graders are already into local and national history). Any African American should be proud of Leadbelly's work in preserving their folk heritage. Their songs had purposes, this one included, and it is something that should be worn as a badge of honor, not swept under the rug because it reminds people of a horrible time in American history. School is supposed to be for education - and education has taken a big hit in this school. We'll see what happens. I'll keep everyone posted.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Peace
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 01:08 PM

Thank you very much, Cary.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 01:28 PM

Cary, I think you are missing the point Tresa Zumsteg was making.   I am so glad you posted that letter, because it has given me a different take on the situation. You may call it "backsliding", but I am reading what appears to be a very honest letter which has no solution that would make everyone happy.

I believe she addressed the very issues that you are bringing up and she is allowing students to make up their own mind.   Including that song, after what has become a national controversy, would take away from what the students were trying to accomplish. It isn't fair to the students to take away from their work, just to prove a political point.

I would bet good money that this song has now been discussed in schools, and you are probably way too late to get them a copy of Lead Belly's recording. (As long as we are talking historical signficance and teaching correctness, Huddie Ledbetter always spelled it as two words - Lead Belly.)    From what I am reading in that letter, I would bet that the song has been discussed from every angle with the students - not only in that school, but in schools across the country.

Maybe there is hope for the future after all.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton'
From: Ferrara
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 02:10 PM

Wow. Cary, I was impressed that you wrote to her, and I am also very impressed by Ms. Zumsteg's speech, which seems to take a look at most of the points of view that have been discussed in this thread. It seems the people at the school have been doing some real thinking. They are trying to use this incident productively and instructively, instead of just complaining or sweeping it under the rug. No, I don't see it as backsliding either, Ron. I see it as responding positively and pro-actively to a knotty and somewhat complex problem.

Thank you for passing on the text of the speech.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 04:45 PM

Just a nylon-pickin' minute. "Pick a Bale of Cotton", per se, has and had nothing to do with slavery. It was first sung, as far as we know, by a black singer who may or may not have composed it, but he certainly wasn't picking cotton at the time. It also, regarless of who composed it, not a song about blacks only.

This sounds to much like the fuss that occurred a couple of years back on a bluegrass site when someone decided that the line in Groundhog
"Up jumped Sal with a snigger and a grin" was really about a black slave owned by someone named Sal.

It also puts me to mind of the college professor who got fired for using the word "niggardly", which has a perfectly fine Swedish lineage and has nothing at all to do with Afro-Americans.

Get, if you'll pardon the expression, real.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 05:14 PM

Dick, the swastika was not created by the Nazi's either, they incorporated the symbol and it became a symbol of hate.   The symbol is still used by some cultures, but it can obviously make people feel very uncomfortable.

Whether "Pick a Bale of Cotton" was a slave song or not is not the issue (and now you have me wondering about it's origin), but the story is how it made some YOUNG students feel.   After reading the speech, I think the school made the right choice to pull it. It appears that they are also teaching the students the history of slaverly and why that song was controversial.   That is what counts.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 05:17 PM

Actually, here is the written introduction Lead Belly used in the notes to this song: "Now this was when I was around Dallas, Texas, pickin' cotton. I was pickin' a thousand pounds of cotton a day. And the way you get a thousand pounds of cotton a day, you've got to jump around to get it. You can't fool around and pick a thousand pounds of cotton a day."

I think that Ms. Zumsteg meant well in her speech and was trying to make the best out of a prickly situation, so I'm not entirely unsympathetic. The problem stems from the presentation. The school's theme - folk songs from around the world - didn't seem to take into account the fact that most folk songs have purposes behind them, a heady subject in many cases for middle schoolers to grasp. But why not? I wouldn't go and play "Strange Fruit" for them, but a show focusing on Lead Belly and his music would certainly be more relevant for kids than a lot of other stuff I've heard my own kids singing in school shows. It all boils down to how they approach their music educational teaching. Not knowing how they went about it, it's hard for me to make a judgment. But I still think that they took the cowardly way out by agreeing with the parents to censor a very innocuous song.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 05:27 PM

I don't think they were cowardly at all.   No matter what decision they made, they would lose.   Their decision was a response to a YOUNG African-American student who felt uncomfortable with the memories that the song brings out.   To respect that students right, and at the same time respect the rights of all the students, I feel deserves to be applauded - not called "cowardly".   The girl in question is 11 years old. Without knowing the students, I would bet good money that the remaining students did not feel any lose at not singing the song, and if it made just ONE child feel comfortable without upsetting the others, they did the right thing. There is absolutely no need to use children as political footballs.

Guest, I think you are wrong to say that the school "didn't seem to take into account the fact that most folk songs have purposes behind them". I think that is just the opposite of their point - as Zumsteg said "Folk music is one way for people to remember events that occurred in their history and their culture." I'm glad they recognize that fact.   As you yourself said, it is probably not appropriate to teach them Strange Fruit at that age, but they have to start somewhere. They made a choice for ONE song and they caused this controversy.

How do they approach their musical teaching? If you read the speech, I think it is wonderful to hear that they are teaching folk music in the schools.   Many schools avoid it these days, sad to say.   Good for them for giving it a shot.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Joybell
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 05:31 PM

"I feel that this evening should be for enjoying our children's singing abilities"
By the time of the concert it seems that there was no choice and it had to be this way. It was a lot of power to place in the hands of an eleven year old, I'm thinking. Can't help feeling sad about the future for singers.

"Pick a bale of cotton" is hardly a symbol (like the swastika - especially not like a swastika) any more than "Shear a hundred sheep in a day" is a symbol of convict labour. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 06:19 PM

Swastika was commonly used in weavings and jewelry by the Navajo until WW2, a symbol of life. Recently, it has started to re-appear as traditionalists are asking for its restoration.

Subject: RE: PC-Where is thy sting?-'Pick a Bale of Cotton' Ban
From: GUEST,the old pooperoo
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 06:34 PM

well of course that song should be suppressed if it offends somebody. not only should it be suppressed, but we should search out all books that feature it, and burn them in a big fire. and as long as we've got a fire going, we might as well burn all the other books that have offended people -- the works of voltaire, tom paine, jefferson, burke, mark twain, ralph nader, marx, freud, darwin, hume, and of course salman rushdie -- i'm sure we'll have no trouble finding more.
we can all join hands around the fire and chant DIE SCHUNDSCHRIFTEN MUSSEN VERSCHWINDERN! ok?