BS: British Soldiers at it again

Subject: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Maggie Derby
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 07:01 PM

According to BBC Northern Ireland tonight, twenty British soldiers have been moved to other duties after paperwork on Republicans was found in a raid on a leading UVF terrorist today. The police said the paperwork came from an office in Castlereagh operatered by these twenty soldiers. Nothing new about this, they have been doing this sort of thing since 1969.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Epona
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 07:16 PM

Too bad they only moved the soldiers to a new assignment. They should have been relieved from service.

E

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Jimmy McKeown
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 07:18 PM

Yes the football yobs are at it again ! Just found this on the net,      Soldiers transferred during probe


There is an investigation into the document disappearance
A number of soldiers have been transferred pending the outcome of a probe into a security breach at the Castlereagh complex, the Army has said.

On Wednesday, the Northern Ireland security minister confirmed that a document had disappeared from a room at the Belfast police headquarters.

Ian Pearson said he had confirmed with senior police officers that there were no indications the material had fallen into the hands of paramilitaries.

It has been alleged the missing document contains the names and details of hundreds of terrorist suspects.

The Press Association reported that 28 members of the Royal Irish Regiment have been withdrawn from sensitive security duties in connection with the investigation into the missing document.

Mr Pearson said: "There is an ongoing police investigation into the disappearance of a document from a room in the Castlereagh complex.


Pending the outcome of the PSNI investigation, a number of military personnel have been transferred to alternative duties

Army spokesman

"I have confirmed with senior officers in the PSNI that there are no indications that material has fallen into the hands of paramilitaries.

On Wednesday, an Army spokesman said: "The Army regards any breach of internal security with the utmost concern and has been co-operating fully with the PSNI in its ongoing investigation at the Castlereagh complex.

"The Army maintains stringent procedures for the handling of documentation and is taking very seriously the fact that a document is currently unaccounted for.

"As the security minister said today, there is no indication that any material has fallen into the hands of paramilitaries.


"Meanwhile, pending the outcome of the PSNI investigation, a number of military personnel have been transferred to alternative duties."



Speaking after a meeting with Mr Pearson, Sinn Fein assembly member Gerry Kelly said no-one had yet been informed that their details were missing.

"I believe we are sitting on a potential scandal," he said. "I believe that the British are trying to suppress this story. It has only emerged through leaks."

'Released without charge'

The Press Association, quoting an unnamed source, said the soldiers had been withdrawn from security duties at Castlereagh and at watchtowers in nationalist areas, such as Divis Tower in west Belfast.

They have been transferred to Palace Barracks in Holywood, County Down, according to the report.

It is not known exactly when the document went missing.

The police said it would be improper to comment on an ongoing investigation.

On 12 July, a person being questioned about the incident at Castlereagh was released without charge.

Two years ago, an army officer was assaulted by a soldier and sensitive documents stolen.

Since then, security has been enhanced.


One of the main police centres for the interrogation of terrorist suspects was located at Castlereagh.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Rizzilos
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 07:28 PM

Sadly that word is sounded around the world again British Army COLLISION. Such a pity.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Epona
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 07:35 PM

Collusion maybe?

E

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 07:43 PM

Royal irish regiment. Sounds inhouse to me rather than British

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 07:50 PM

Regiment of the British Army, several of them serving in Iraq ! God help our guys out there serving along side them.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Nov 05 - 09:01 PM

GUEST 15 Nov 05 - 07:50 PM

"Regiment of the British Army, several of them serving in Iraq ! God help our guys out there serving along side them."

"God help our guys out there serving along side them."
That's a fuckin' good one!!!!

A question for you GUEST how many members of other MNF formations have been killed in Iraq by 'Friendly Fire' from British Forces?

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 05:19 AM

Buggerall, that's how many. Meanwhile let's be glad that British soldiers "at it again" involves leaking paperwork to Loyalists - the work of only a few spoiled apples, IF it is proven. The IRA "at it again" would involve the mass murder of innocent men women and children - which they all connived at. I note these papers were found "in a raid", presumably by the forces of law and order - which the British army is there to support, and the IRA sought to destroy.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Walter Jones
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 06:39 AM

From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 05:19 AM

Meanwhile let's be glad that British soldiers "at it again" involves leaking paperwork to Loyalists -

This is a lovely chap. He welcomes MURDER. He welcomes COLLUSION.
Please don't think he is typical of a British Mudcat member.
W.A.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 07:56 AM

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Jimmy McKeown
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 08:04 AM

See the police in Northern Ireland today say these soldiers had been passing on information to loyalists for the past three years.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 08:05 AM

Sorry, I don`t know how that intelligence report from the NI office got it`s nose in.

This news is widely reported in todays Irish papers, could be the last kick of the security collusion team.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 08:07 AM

Google BBC NI NEWS FOR A FULL REPORT.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Sid the Havana King
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 08:30 AM

Oh dear that word that haunts the British turns up again, COLLUSION. Great to see it on here, lets the world see what they get up to. Wasn't on the news here in Canada, but we know now !

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Jimmy C
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 12:56 PM

Sid,

I noticed that it was not mentioned in Canada also, but that is par for the course.
Did you notice by comparison how much publicity was given to the McCartney case ?.
I guarantee that if details of loyalists had been possibly leaked to the I.R.A. it would have been on the T.V. and every front page in the country.
Although I live in Canada and love the country I am stlll dismayed by the fact that many people in senior positions in the media world appear to be tied to the apron strings of mother England. From reading many Canadian newspapers, especially in the Toronto region I get the impression that ,what to publish and what not to publish is decided by someone who appears to be Pro-unionist, anti-irish, anti-black, in fact anti-everything that is not British.
Anyway this story only augments what I and others have been saying for years, and that is that a certain portion of the loyalist population and the police and the army will do whatever is necessary to make the I.R.A. break the cease -fire.
These days are extremely dangerous for republicans, future elections will show massive gains for Sinn-Fein, both in the north and the republic, unless trouble breaks out again, and republicans have to be determined not to be drawn into conflict with the loyalists, because the blame will be placed on the shoulders of Sinn-Fein/ I.R.A., and that has to avoided at all costs, Strike back through the voting process is the only way to go from here on.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 01:57 PM

I see the BBC News [network] had it on today, dead right Jimmy, this is par for the course,.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 02:15 PM

Too bad they only moved the soldiers to a new assignment. They should have been relieved from service.
I disagree.
If the one (or two or three or...) who did it is (are) found out he (they) should be relieved from service. With the knowledge so far, it could be 19 innocent and one guilty. But something has to be done against the collusion of security forces with loyalist paramilitaries. So to send all of them in this department immediately to some other job where they can do less damage is the right thing to do now. The innocent among the 20 should be able to accept that for the good cause of stopping (well, reducing) the danger of being killed for known Republicans.

However, this immediate action can only be the start.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Grab
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 05:44 PM

BBC news article for reference

As far as "being glad that's all it is", I'm not glad at all myself. I'm *relieved* that it's nothing more serious, but it's scary that the situation exists at all. However, I'm glad that this seems to show the police are doing their jobs well ("without fear or favour", as the old saying goes).

Walter Jones needs to get his knickers out of his arse-crack though...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 06:04 PM

what a crock of shit

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 06:50 PM

Hmm, let's see, the identity of suspected terrorists is leaked? In the best interests of (a) the right of the public to know (eg Megan's law) or (b) national security, or (c) Watergate?

Hard call, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Sid the Havana King
Date: 16 Nov 05 - 08:41 PM

Well got the story onto a local radio station this morning. The phone in was very pro Irish I am glad to say. Later a national radio station took the story and tonight several of the news channels reported it too. So all thanks to Mudcat. So many people over here were not aware of the depth of British Army collusion with loyalist murder gangs or the fact that so many British soldiers of the Royal Irish Regiment and Ulster Defence Regiment served life sentences for the murders of Catholics.As one report put it, Republicans have laid down their arms and ended their war with the British but still the British will not give them peace.Sounded like the reporter has been reading some of the posts on this site !

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:20 AM

GUEST,Sid the Havana King,

"So many people over here were not aware of the depth of British Army collusion with loyalist murder gangs.."

What!! Collusion with only loyalist murder gangs!! What about Security Forces collusion with the various Republican/Nationalist paramilitaries? It did happen, rival factions used to make sure information reached the Security Forces, in order that their internal opposition/factions got wiped out. That way they could attend the funerals and 'tut tut' to the relatives about what a bunch of bastards the Brits were and present the illusion of a united front, joined in a comon cause - sometimes I wonder how they managed to keep a straight face.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Jimmy McKeown
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:09 AM

Never read such a load of rubbish in my entire life Teribus. Please gave us all the source of your claims. Did someone in the I.R.A. tell you this? Or did you dream it up after dipping into the old rum S.R.D. on board after dancing a horn pipe ! Your defence of loyalists time and time again tell us all you were part of this collusion. Sid the Havana King, great work in bringing this to the attention of your people.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:00 AM

There was no massive search and arrest operation in the wake of this theft and the lobbying by the British of compliant media outlets to kill the story this was in marked contrast to the earlier alleged Castlereagh break-in in March 2002.

This was also identified as an `inside job` with so-called `disgruntled` members of the British Army and Special Branch the prime suspects, but then the focus was changed. Republicans were then in the frame and several were arrested. Nothing connected to the so-called burgalry was ever recovered and no one detained ever faced charges related to the alleged incident.

Now with this latest hand-out to the Loyalist murder gangs, we are told hundreds of Nationalist lives are in danger.

The whole Castlereagh Security Forces set-up stank to the high heavens from day one, there are other people who still haven`t gone away.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Koika
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:45 AM

I do not know a lot about Irish politics, but surely it has to be wrong if the forces of law and order who are paid to do a job are helping these loyalist terrorists to go out and kill people ? Are they looking someone to do their dirty work for them ? If these men on the lists are from a group which turned it's back on war, why do the British army still want to kill them ? I see in the above statements that this has happened many times, why does our government not do more about it, or are they involved in it ? So sad to see some of you not condemning it and in fact through your words agreeing with it.I am 21 and hoped not to have seen what my mother and father saw whilst he was stationed in Ulster.Some of the views expressed above are shameful to say the least. To assist murder is wrong, is wrong is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 11:37 AM

How come when any 'dirt' is dished on the IRA or it's supporters we get hoards of peole jumping up and down with rage, the words 'prove it' foaming on their lips? I point you to the threads about the 'worst ever robbery' and the Manchester 'businesman' as prime examples. Whenever there is any 'dirt' to be found on the British Army those same people are quite happy to speculate, without proof, that the entire force is corrupt and in collusion with loyalist gangs or worse?

Whenever the evidence looks like it points to the Republican there are shouts that it must have been British collusion and deceipt. Whenever the evidence points towards the British security forces it must be true. I cannot however understand how one side can be so pure and good while the other is completely evil. It does smack somewhat of both hypocracy and naivety.

Before anyone replies I must point out that I believe that the Irish have indeed had a very rough deal from the British government. I support the cause of the Republican wholeheartely and even, to an extent, can understand how such injustice caused the mind set that resulted in the bombing of civilians. I just cannot follow the reasoning that seems to apply here:-(


Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 11:58 AM

But Dave the British Army are supposed to be disiplined and to act in accordance with their Officers strict orders, the point is, they do act in accordance with their Officers strict orders, the dirty tricks dept of the British Army have had centuries of practice at this game, the people in opposition are fighting for their country and in some cases for their exsistence, their is a marked difference.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Jimmy McKeown
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 12:08 PM

Paid law and order should keep law and order, they are in the news in Northern Ireland every year for Christ sake for such offences! and been found guilty in European courts.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Den
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 01:47 PM

Dave, you come across as a fairly astute guy the threads you refer to well the jury is still out as to culpability in those cases. If you need proof of collusion a simple google search using the words British, Brian Nelson and collusion should give you as much proof as you will ever need. If you care for more information about the current instance of collusion there is plenty of information today on most of the reliable news sites or the Belfast Telegraph site.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Den
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:00 PM

Dave, while you're at it you might want to do a little reading about the FRU (Force Research Unit). A google search on them will make for some insightful reading but might just keep you awake at night.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 02:40 PM

DtG,

These threads pop up every now and then so that the black balaclava second hand camo jacket types can toddle of down to their subsidised container and tap away on their key boards while the they try to agree on the two most important decisions of the day:

1. What range of GUEST names they are going to use

2. Whether they want to be on "uppers" or "downers"

Oh, to GUEST ******* regarding the Collusion with Republican Groups - certainly with some elements of the PIRA and INLA, and always aimed at sorting out people within their own ranks.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Eddie Bunting
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 03:11 PM

Still the above asshole comes up with no proof to his posts, and still he defends the loyalist hit squads, well he is a Brit, and tried to be a soldier !

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 03:13 PM

These Threads will keep popping up while the British Army and it`s paid lackeys, the Loyalist killer squads refuse to come to terms with the Peace Process.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Laurence McMenary
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 03:21 PM

Waste of time talking to this old tosser Teribus, he is trying to make his mark because he couldn't make it in Ulster, A keyboard soldier ! What a joke. Still do you notice he defends the loyalist murder gangs. Ah sure he's a joke maybe a few old buddies of his took the long way home ! Ah Ah

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:15 PM

Yaaaaawwwwnnnnnnnnnnn

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 04:50 PM

British Intellegence report, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 05:07 PM

Den and Ard Mhacha. You are two of the guys, along with the Curator and Big Mick, who taught me why the struggle was as it was. Why the people of Ireland deserved better and why it was sometimes necessary to resort to violence. What I must agree with Teribus about is this recent spate of guests who seem to spout the same dogma regardless of the circumstance. I also tend to agree that it does seem to be the same people with different names. Look at the threads and you will see the same phraseology and the same style popping up again and again.

Yes, Ard Mhacha, there are some in the British establisment that want to derail the peace process. But it does look like there are those in the Republican camp who want the same.

All, neither side can ever be wholly right on this. Just accept that both sides have made mistakes and try to get on with the present and future.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 07:49 PM

Have to agree with you Dave regarding the Bombardment of fly in posters, for the record they are not from my camp, and I am asking them to stop, they are no better than the attack squads that get the boot into Republicans on this site. Regarding the document disappearance and for it to be found in the hands of Loyalist hit teams is disappointing at this stage of the peace process.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 01:06 AM

GUEST,Eddie Bunting - 17 Nov 05 - 03:11 PM

Presumably of me you state:
"...and still he defends the loyalist hit squads"

And

GUEST,Laurence McMenary - 17 Nov 05 - 03:21 PM

"Still do you notice he defends the loyalist murder gangs."

Now these two are probably one and the same person however I have a question for them that will at least determine if they are honest men.

You show me and everyone else on this forum proof in any shape or form that I have EVER defended the actions of ANY paramilitary group in Northern Ireland, loyalist or Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Eddie Bunting
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 05:16 AM

So are you prepared to say that Loyalist Collusion with the British forces is still going on and attacks on Republicans should be Condemned ? I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 12:32 PM

I will say it, Guest, Eddie Bunting. Loyalist Collusion with the British forces is still going on and attacks on Republicans should be Condemned. Happy now?

I will also say Rebublican Collusion with the British forces is still going on and attacks on Loyalists should be Condemned. Are you prepared to say the same?

Are you THE Eddie Bunting btw? How come you don't post some of your wonderful music collection above the line instead of staying down here whinging about the Brits?

And sorry, Divis, I meant to include you in my list of mentors on the Irish situation but forgot:-( Honest!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Eddie Bunting
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 03:05 PM

Sorry Dave my post was not aimed at you. And yes I will post in the music section if I so desire. I actually play in a group. So now you know my remark wasn't aimed at you, please back off.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 03:25 PM

There are one or two things wrong with your last post, Eddie.

Your previous post was not addressed to anyone specificly so by default it was an open challenge. I responded. You have not yet responded to my specific challenge to you. Are you willing to say "Rebublican Collusion with the British forces is still going on and attacks on Loyalists should be Condemned"?

The comment about you posting on the music section 'if you desire' is a bit of a cop out. How are we supposed to know what you desire?

You play in a group? I am willing to believe that. Join the Mudcat as a member. PM me the name of your group and where and when you play - I may even come along. Better still post it here so we can all come:-)

As to 'please back off'. Come on now. You should know me better that that just by looking at my previous posts. Once I spot bollocks beong talked at any level I just can't resist joining in...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 03:48 PM

Before this goes much further Dave, I'm just wondering what collusion between Republicans and British forces you're refering to. Republicans met in secret with the British to talk about the situation in N. Ireland. I'm certainly not aware of and would be surprised to hear about documented proof that Republicans killed people on the strength of materials supplied to them by the British. I pointed you in the direction of documents that proved there was collusion between Loyalists and the British Government. If you have similar proof implicating republicans, I for one would be very interested to read about it.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Epona
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 03:56 PM

Agreed, Den. I, too, would be interested as well.

E

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Den
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 04:09 PM

The following link will give anyone interested an insight in the mentality of the security forces in N. Ireland. The report talks about collusion betwwen the RUC, UDR and loyalist death squads but there is also information about the British knowledge of the bombings in Monaghan and Dublin the single biggest atrocity of the troubles.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 05:19 PM

Sorry Den and Epona - how are you btw, E? PM me with your tales of your adventures in the Lone Star State:-) - Anyway. there is of course no proof of any collusion between Republicans and the Security forces. There is never likely to be. My whole point is that there is never any proof of the type of collusion talked about on these threads. It is all speculation. Going back to my earlier post I made the point that whenever it is suggested that the IRA are involved in any dirty dealings there is an uproar. Whenever it is suggested that the British army do the same everyone is happy accept hearsay and rumour. Just looks a bit like double standards to me.

Wht pick up on just that bit btw? I also asked if Eddie would condemn attacks on Loyalists. He has not done so as yet. I am very surprised that the response has not been that there is no proof of attacks on Loyalists. After all everything that the IRA do is justified while everything that the Brits do is to be despised and hated. Sounds sensible to me...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 06:00 PM

Dave, Sorry just coming in on this, can't help but think there is something I missed here. What point is it you are trying to get across. Are you looking this guy to condemn attacks on Loyalists ? If so what attacks ? are you speaking about something that occurred recently or pre cease fire ? If it's of any use to you no Provisional Republican will support any attack on anyone, Loyalist, civilian, policeman or soldier. Regarding your remarks about British army collusion with Loyalist paramilitaries. Usually there is an outcry from the general public as these are the appointed forces of law and order. Speaking as a Republican Dave it holds no surprise at all to me.Both were working for the same agenda.As to acts committed by Republicans, I can only comment on the Provisionals, and yes I feel their campaign was justifed.Regarding the British being despised and hated,I myself do not go along with that.I do not hate anyone.And in regard to another post about Republicans colluding with the British,I can't comment on that one, I myself have no knowledge of any such event.Yes there were many secret talks with the British government throughout the 1970's and 80's in London,Cornwall and Wales, but I would not call these collusion, we wanted to farther our cause, they wanted a halt to attacks. May I add the British Government asked for these talks on every occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: British Soldiers at it again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 06:32 PM

OK - I give up. I'll back out gracefully. Well, OK, disgracefully but who's counting...

My point is, Divis, that the recent posts seem to be concentrating on the bad behavior of the British in general and it's army in particular. While I have no doubt whatsoever that the British security forces did and still do behave without decorum the Republican faction are not without sin themselves.

Call me an old sticker (please - I enjoy it!) but if one side behaves badly you can expect the same of the other!

As to the Republican collusion with the British forces. Of course I have proof - but do you think I could give it here? My life would be at risk. Surely this is how rumours start...

:D