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BS: KatrinaGate

GUEST,Sawzaw 10 Sep 08 - 12:38 AM
Bobert 09 Sep 08 - 09:24 PM
Bobert 09 Sep 08 - 11:30 AM
PoppaGator 09 Sep 08 - 10:41 AM
GUEST,Sawzaw 09 Sep 08 - 12:29 AM
GUEST,Sawzaw 09 Sep 08 - 12:01 AM
Bobert 08 Sep 08 - 07:48 PM
PoppaGator 08 Sep 08 - 04:28 PM
Bobert 07 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM
DougR 07 Sep 08 - 08:10 PM
Bobert 07 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM
DougR 07 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM
Bobert 07 Sep 08 - 05:31 PM
CarolC 07 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Sawzaw 07 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM
Bobert 02 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,Sawzaw 02 Sep 08 - 08:42 AM
Bobert 02 Sep 08 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Sawzaw 01 Sep 08 - 11:28 PM
Amos 01 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM
GUEST,Sawzaw 01 Sep 08 - 10:17 PM
Bobert 01 Sep 08 - 08:39 PM
Amos 01 Sep 08 - 08:27 PM
Bobert 01 Sep 08 - 07:32 PM
GUEST,Sawzaw 01 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM
CarolC 01 Sep 08 - 01:25 AM
CarolC 01 Sep 08 - 01:21 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 31 Aug 08 - 10:50 PM
Bobert 31 Aug 08 - 09:38 PM
Bobert 31 Aug 08 - 08:46 PM
Amos 31 Aug 07 - 07:47 PM
DougR 29 Aug 07 - 08:22 PM
Bobert 28 Aug 07 - 09:14 PM
Bobert 28 Aug 07 - 09:12 PM
Peace 18 Apr 07 - 01:10 AM
Dickey 18 Apr 07 - 01:00 AM
Amos 17 Apr 07 - 10:28 AM
Donuel 28 Mar 07 - 01:07 PM
Amos 28 Mar 07 - 12:36 PM
Bobert 18 Mar 07 - 03:48 PM
bobad 18 Mar 07 - 02:50 PM
Old Guy 14 Oct 06 - 12:47 PM
Bobert 14 Oct 06 - 09:31 AM
Old Guy 13 Oct 06 - 11:25 PM
Bobert 13 Oct 06 - 08:27 PM
Old Guy 13 Oct 06 - 10:18 AM
Bobert 13 Oct 06 - 08:45 AM
Old Guy 12 Oct 06 - 10:45 PM
Bobert 12 Oct 06 - 09:39 PM
Bobert 12 Oct 06 - 09:20 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 12:38 AM

Bobert: You asked me if I was interested in facts. Yes I am interested in facts.

Are you so smug and blasé that you are attempting to my question with a question? Where did you get the "fact" that "1% hold all the wealth in Haiti"? Methinks you dreamt it up like the possum.

If 1/2 of the population has anything at all to live off of, it does not jive with your "1% holding all the wealth" fact.

Will the real fact please stand up.

I guess George Hussein Onyango Obama is not much better off with his dollar a day compared with the Haitians.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 09:24 PM

BTW, Sawz... Before youi bring it up... There is a reason why we haven't yet seen a successful revolution in Haiti where over 1/2 the population lives, or tries to live, on less than a dollar a day and that reason is that these golkas don't have guns...

Billy Bob has plenty of guns and knows how to shoot 'um...

Bad scenerio for Boss Hog...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:30 AM

Well, Sawz, I sho nuff ain't backin' away from the statement I made back then about the income disparity in the US... It is no secret that the divide has been increasing since 1982 and accelerated drastically over the last 8 years...

Yes, I can envision a situation where the super wealthy will be holed up in their compounds with private security companies like Balckwater protecting them... Actually, I hear that there is a company right now that provides these services for an annual fee that in the case of a catastrope will collect the wealthy and get them to safety and provide for them... Wealthy people are allready purchasing yearing plans for such a scenerio...

But down the road when Southern Man figures out just who's hand is in his pocket I'd be willing to bet that these companies will offer simialr services...

I mean, all one has to do is tudy history to see the cycles of revolution and they all boil down to resources... There will come a tipping point, Sawz, as there has every time that a small number of folks corral too much wealth... It has happened hundreds, maybe thousands, of times during the history of man... Right now, we have roughly 5% of the population controlling roughly 80% of the wealth... Another way of looking at that is that 95% od the people are having to live on about 20% of the wealth created... Hmmmmm?

So what the tipping point is, I don't know... What I do know is that those 95% are being squeezed harder than any time in my life time... This isn't just my opinion but a fact that we hear almost daily...

What this means is that unless the rich are willing to share then two things are going to happen. First, as I have allready mentioned, the rich will have to do what rich have historically done before revolutions and that is to protect themselves the best they can... In this phase they will move into compounds... We have allready seen this in many areas with gated communities and private security companies such as Blackwater...

Now if they continue to not want to share when things are starting to get uncomfortable and they feel like prisoners then there will occur a revolution... This isn't an opinion based on my imagination but one based on history...

Voltaire said, "Those who don't know history tend to repeat it"

So the ball is in your court Sawz... Are you willing to bet that this time will be different??? Well, if you are, I'd suggest taking a few history classes before making your wager...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:41 AM

Glad to be of service, and to give you two something upon which to agree, more-or-less.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:29 AM

My sentiments exactly PoppaGator.

A pessimist is an optimist with experience. Now when someone tells them to get out, they get out.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:01 AM

"Subject: RE:
BS: Crash of U.S. Economy
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 09:03 PM

Well, I been saying this for the last couple years here in Mudville... The US is getting more and more like Haiti with 1% holding all the wealth and the rest of the population in the crapper."

It ain't hard to find because this thread is still open and Bobert posted to it in January.

Ahhhh, How come you duck the questions when they seek to question your "facts"?

You asked me If I was interested in facts. I sure am so tell me all about this fact of yours.

Where did you get the "fact" that "1% hold all the wealth in Haiti"? Please share your source with us.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:48 PM

Thank you, P-Gator...

That has been my point since starting this thread... FEMA was not up to the task because of it being underfunded, understaffed and being managed by people who were not competent...

That is all on Bush and thus the "gate" in Katrinagate... Bush was betting that a Katrine wouldn't happen... He bet wrong and got caught... As well as the people in New Orleans...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:28 PM

Katrina was by no means a "direct hit" on New Orleans. The storm passed to the EAST, meaning that the prevailing (counterclockwise) hurricane winds in the N.O. area were coming from the north-northeast. The levees should have held, and they didn't.

Gustav passed to the west/southwest of New Orleans, meaning that the storm winds were coming from the south/southeast ~ from the water. This makes for a more dangerous storm surge into Lake Pontchartrains and Borne and the MRGO (Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, an especially dangerous manmade feature creted at the behest of shipping and petroleum interests).

The levees have obviously been improved since '05 ~ if they hadn't, Gustav would have been worse than Katrina. (Flooding in the city would have been the same thing all over again, and damage around Louisiana but outside the NO area was worse.) It was a close call, and those levees still need further improvement. Indeed, continuing work is scheduled through 2010. The Industrial Canal very nearly overtopped the west-side levee, i.e., the upper ninth ward, and my side. The east-side levees, which failed spectacularly afrter Katrina, were rebuilt 3-4 feet higher and were not in danger of overtopping during Gustav.

Everyone performed much better this time around than three years ago, public officials and private citizens alike. No person or party should either claim credit or place blame. Before Katrina, it was impossible to take the threat seriously enough because it was impossible to imagine what could really happen. (Impossible for most people, anyway.)

I never blamed the Bush administration for anything to do with the disaster EXCEPT for fouling up the recovery process by having gutted FEMA of professional staff and turning it into a patronage mill (case in point: Arabian-horse expert Michael Brown's appointment as head honcho). I think that's a very fair criticism.

A good friend who is a longtime registered nurse had taken part in a simulated hurricane drill less than a year before Katrina. She took the exercise seriously, but was appalled at how few of her coworkers, peers, and superiors shared her serious attitude. People simply couldn't believe that the worst could actually happen, and so took the training exercise as an opportunity to take time off from work, "smokin' and jokin'" their way through a day off from the regular routine. These were some of the many many folks who failed miserably when a crisis actually happened. The highly visible politicians and other "leaders" were not alone in falling short, nor were the bottom-dwelling scum who got themselves on national TV as looters. They did wrong, for sure, but so did countless folks on every socioeconomic level in between.

Katrina was THE defiunitive "reality check." Everyone learned a bitter lesson ~ or two or three ~ and everyone behaved more appropropritely this time around. No one party or personality did better than any other, and anyone who claims otherwide in an effort to make political hay is simply full of it.

PS to Jayto & many others who saw Katrina wreak havoc far inland: you are correct to observe that Gustav was smaller and never ventured as far north as Katrina at full force. However, Gustav moved north very slowly and meandered around Louisiana, causing greater damage than ever imagined to places like Baton Rouge and Alexandria before weakening and leaving the state.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM

Okay, Dougie, maybe He was??? No matter... The McCain folks must have felt like it... They did not want Bush there and if it meant New Orleans getting blasted I dare say that most of McCain's handlers would have privately said, "Bring the sumabich on..."

Strange this relationship between Bush and hurricanes... They blast him where ever he is...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: DougR
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:10 PM

It seems like a pretty far leap to me, Bobert. As far as GWB's role at the convention, who knows, perhaps the Almighty was working in one of those mysterious ways. :>(

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM

It's not that far a leap, Dougie, to see that McCain, who tried his best to distance himself from Bush during the convention, was happy that the hurricane came the day that Bush was supposed to address the Republican Convention... I'm sure that there was a major sigh of relief when N.O. was told to evacuate...

The old McCain wouldn't have been driven by the politics but under the toolage of many of the old Bush cmapaign people the new McCain is taking nicely to carrying on where Bush has left off, both in policies and in his divisive style...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: DougR
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:51 PM

Some Repubs wished for a catastrophe Amos? Which Republicans would that be? Got names? Got proof?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:31 PM

Wow!!!

This just in folks... Rememeber O(ld Guy??? How about Dickey??? And then it was, ahhhhhh, geeze... the short term memory is going...lol... Ya'l' know... The last of the reincarnations... Well, there weren't no Sawz when I posted the comment about Haiti and I know that a new GUEST wouldn't go thru 14000 of my old posts so, hey, Old Guy/Dickey/________, good to see ya...

Carol,

Not sure if you get o0r read the recent Nation but there is a very intersting article in there about how the white people in N.O. have used to the rebuilding of N.O after Katrina as a way to reinstitute segregation... Man, they have come up with some real wierd laws that have Jim Crow written all over them...

BTW, interesting link and one reason why the country is moving toward a revolution of some sorts...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM

This article has some numbers on income disparity in the US...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:18 PM

Bobert:

If the levees fail when Ike hits, will it be because God did it or Mankind?

"Are you even interetsed in facts, Sawz??? Apparently not."

Yes I am interested in facts. Are you?

Here is a Bobert fact: "The US is getting more and more like Haiti with 1% holding all the wealth" Where did this propaganda come from?


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM

Is that yer final answer, Cobgressman???

lol...

Last time was a direct hit, Sawz... And, BTW, God ain't responsible for the levies, or guttin' FEMA, or hiring people based on their views on abortion rather than their level of expertise... No, God didn't have His hand in those screw-ups but George Bush sho nuff did and he did a fine job of it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 08:42 AM

If God is responsible for the levee system working this time then God must have been responsible for the levee system failing the last time.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 08 - 07:22 AM

Are you even interetsed in facts, Sawz??? Apparently not...

The storm center took a path about 100 miles west of New Orleans... If you are looking at the pictures this morning of the waters coming over the levies and imagine what it would have been like if the storm center had actually hit New Orleans it doesn't take much imagination to see that N.O. would have been sverely damaged and the so-called "new 'n improved" FEMA would have been tested...

As it is, Bush is sighing a sigh of relief because now that test may fall on the next president...

Talk about running out the clock???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 11:28 PM

How salacious. They wanted a catastrophe so bad that they did everything they could do to prevent one.

But my remark was somewhat salacious also. It seems to me that some people want bad things to happen so they will have something else to complain about. In doing so they miss anything positive that might happen and actually seek to nullify anything positive so as not to break the aura of gloom and doom that they project.

I am not in to gloom and doom myself.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:26 PM

Well, I think some of the Repubs wanted a catastrophe so they could demonstrate how good they were at being responsible about it. Glad that didn't happen, either.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:17 PM

Some people were lickin' their lips, hoping for a big catastrophe so's they could whine, weep wail and cry Bush, Bush, Bush.

Maybe next time their dreams will come true.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 08:39 PM

I'm with you, buddy...

N.O. is an accident (on purpose) waiting to happen so it's great that it wasn't this time...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 08:27 PM

The storm was topping the levees, just barely in some areas, but the pumps were able to keep up with it.

So far so good. I am glad neither party is trying to make political hay out of it.
(Knock on driftwood).

A


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 07:32 PM

Send them thank you notes to God, Sawz... If this storm had hit 90 miles east then we'd have a much different story tonight... N.O. dodged a bullet... This time...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM

Seems pretty amazing that in only three years, the levees were rebuilt to withstand another hurricane.

Somebody deserves a thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 01:25 AM

Here's satellite imagery of both Gustav and Hanna...

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/nwatl/vis-l.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 01:21 AM

The H storm, Tropical Storm Hanna, is supposed to become a hurricane, then come up the east coast, hitting land somewhere around the Georgia coast Friday afternoon. At least that's the prediction as of today (Sunday)...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at3+shtml/144212.shtml?5day#contents


For anyone who's interested, this graphic has all of the Atlantic storm activity, including areas of activity that have some probability of becoming named storms (right now there's one with a low probability and one with a high probability, plus the hurricane and the tropical storm)...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo_atl.shtml


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:50 PM

The thread Gustav is reviving some of the old comments. I hope we don't have a Gustavgate, but the west levees are incomplete. And the H hurricane is out there somewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 09:38 PM

Well, here we are again with a possible Cat 3 heading for N.O.... One thing is for sure from what I'm seein on CNN and that is the people have no trust in the levies and, unlike in Katrina, are gettin' the heck out...

Good job, Georgie... Good job...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 08:46 PM

Refresh...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:47 PM

Two years ago, Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.  In the days following the tragedy, promises to help rebuild that great city and get New Orleanians back on their feet rolled in from the Bush Administration. It turns out, that's all they were—empty promises.

Molly L., a MoveOn member from New Orleans, tells what really happened: "The president promised my city aid and help, but we have received almost none.  He needs to be told that he was elected as the leader of the American people, and that THEY should be his first priority."

It's not surprising that the Bush Administration would fail to deliver—that's their trademark.  But we can't let them get away with this blatant neglect of fellow Americans who are trying to rebuild their lives. Clicking the link below will add your name to the petition telling Congress that two years is too long and that they must pass the Gulf Coast Housing Recovery Act of 2007.


http://www.moveon.org/r?r=2927?&id=11149-137503-zv1Q_B&t=3


The bill provides desperately needed funds for affordable housing, guarantees the replacement of public housing units, and ensures that all those who wish to return home can do so. It also continues assistance for evacuees to make sure that they have safe, decent housing until they can return home.


There is progress in the Gulf, thanks to countless acts of courage and resourcefulness by citizens determined to rebuild. And there is still tremendous suffering—its persistence is a national disgrace. We asked MoveOn members on the Gulf Coast how they were doing two years after Katrina—their stories were uplifting and heartbreaking, eloquent and exasperating.  But their message was unmistakable: Don't forget us. Below are some of the messages they asked us to share:

Life in the Big Easy isn't so easy anymore, and it might never be quite the same. As strong and proud as we New Orleanians may be, we still need the help of our fellow Americans.
–Yanna G., Metairie, LA


What helped the people of the Gulf Coast was not the government, not insurance companies, but regular everyday Americans who gave and continue to give of their time, money, moral support, friendship and love to help us here.  I am so grateful for that.
–Jessica J., New Orleans, LA

Recovery has been very slow, especially for renters. We lived in government housing and they have been one of the last to rebuild or repair their buildings. Tomorrow is the 2nd anniversary and we are still in a FEMA camper...made to vacation in, NOT live in. We are very thankful for a roof over our heads, however, we need permanent housing.
–Cheryl E., Bay St. Louis, MS

Please, please, please continue to write and call your political representatives, as well as the national media, and tell them that it is unforgivable for them to continue to neglect and forget not only my once amazing city,but the entire Gulf Coast region affected.
–Molly L., New Orleans, LA

Please tell your Congress they must help the Gulf Coast recover.  Click here to add your name.



Thanks for all you do,


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: DougR
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:22 PM

Uh, Bobert, I assume you feel that the good folks in New Orleans, including it's illustrious mayor, bear no blame for the fact that New Orleans is still on the "ropes". Right? It's all Bush's fault. Well, why not? He's blamed for everything else! Just think when he is no longer in office there will be no more hurricanes, no more tornados, no more robberies, no more murders, no more child molestations:we will live in a land of milk and honey.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 09:14 PM

Awwwwww, what the heck....

800!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 09:12 PM

Well, here we are on the eve of what is one of the largest national disasters in our conutry's history...

As I have pointed out, Bush and Co. ***failed*** to provide the necessary resources for FEMA... They were hoping that nuthin' like Katrina would hit but ti did and it showed just how poorly the Bushites were prepared to actually deal with a disadter...

It would be one thing if 9/11 hadn't occured but 9/11 did occur and what Katrina showed was that all that chwest pounding that Buish and Co. did about how that had the bases covered was all just that: chest pounding and nuthin' else...

Here we are on the eve of the 2nd anniversary of Katrina and Bush has made some 13 visits there but has to date not come up with a real plan on what our country does if anm large area goes down...

This is why I have always felt there was a cover-up... If the Bush peo[ple had the bases covered after 9/11 then the response to Katrina wouldn't have been so slow, so ill-thought-out or totally ineffective...

No, the Bush folks were real good at talklin' the talk but not so good on walkin' the walk...

2 years after Katrina and New Orleans is something out of a sci-fi movie... There is no plan other than...

...run out the clock...

Yeah, runnin' out the clock seems to be the Bushite strategy for surviving the last year and few months of his administration...

But runnin' out the clock in Bush's case is probably the best thing to do seein' how totally incompetant he is at fixing anything...

So, George, just go off and play... The next administration will deal with it...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 01:10 AM

Sounds like Bush, Amos.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Dickey
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 01:00 AM

"the failure of the federally built levee system"

Not true. It is a product of the Levee board using local and federal money.

in December of 1995, the Orleans Levee Board, the local government entity that oversees the levees and floodgates designed to protect New Orleans and the surrounding areas from rising waters, bragged in a supplement to the Times-Picayune newspaper about federal money received to protect the region from hurricanes.

"In the past four years, the Orleans Levee Board has built up its arsenal. The additional defenses are so critical that Levee Commissioners marched into Congress and brought back almost $60 million to help pay for protection," the pamphlet declared. "The most ambitious flood-fighting plan in generations was drafted. An unprecedented $140 million building campaign launched 41 projects."

The levee board promised Times-Picayune readers that the "few manageable gaps" in the walls protecting the city from Mother Nature's waters "will be sealed within four years (1999) completing our circle of protection."

But less than a year later, that same levee board was denied the authority to refinance its debts. Legislative Auditor Dan Kyle "repeatedly faulted the Levee Board for the way it awards contracts, spends money and ignores public bid laws," according to the Times-Picayune. The newspaper quoted Kyle as saying that the board was near bankruptcy and should not be allowed to refinance any bonds, or issue new ones, until it submitted an acceptable plan to achieve solvency.

Blocked from financing the local portion of the flood fighting efforts, the levee board was unable to spend the federal matching funds that had been designated for the project.

By 1998, Louisiana's state government had a $2 billion construction budget, but less than one tenth of one percent of that -- $1.98 million -- was dedicated to levee improvements in the New Orleans area. State appropriators were able to find $22 million that year to renovate a new home for the Louisiana Supreme Court and $35 million for one phase of an expansion to the New Orleans convention center.

The following year, the state legislature did appropriate $49.5 million for levee improvements, but the proposed spending had to be allocated by the State Bond Commission before the projects could receive financing. The commission placed the levee improvements in the "Priority 5" category, among the projects least likely to receive full or immediate funding.

The Orleans Levee Board was also forced to defer $3.7 million in capital improvement projects in its 2001 budget after residents of the area rejected a proposed tax increase to fund its expanding operations. Long term deferments to nearly 60 projects, based on the revenue shortfall, totaled $47 million worth of work, including projects to shore up the floodwalls.

No new state money had been allocated to the area's hurricane protection projects as of October of 2002, leaving the available 65 percent federal matching funds for such construction untouched.

"The problem is money is real tight in Baton Rouge right now," state Sen. Francis Heitmeier (D-Algiers) told the Times-Picayune. "We have to do with what we can get."

Louisiana Commissioner of Administration Mark Drennen told local officials that, if they reduced their requests for state funding in other, less critical areas, they would have a better chance of getting the requested funds for levee improvements. The newspaper reported that in 2000 and 2001, "the Bond Commission has approved or pledged millions of dollars for projects in Jefferson Parish, including construction of the Tournament Players Club golf course near Westwego, the relocation of Hickory Avenue in Jefferson (Parish) and historic district development in Westwego."

There is no record of such discretionary funding requests being reduced or withdrawn, but in October of 2003, nearby St. Charles Parish did receive a federal grant for $475,000 to build bike paths on top of its levees.

Earlier this year, the levee board did complete a $2.5 million restoration project. After months of delays, officials rolled away fencing to reveal the restored 1962 Mardi Gras fountain in a four-acre park featuring a new 600-foot plaza between famous Lakeshore Drive and the sea wall.

Financing for the renovation came from a property tax passed by New Orleans voters in 1983. The tax, which generates more than $6 million each year for the levee board, is dedicated to capital projects. Levee board officials defended more than $600,000 in cost overruns for the Mardi Gras fountain project, according to the Times-Picayune, "citing their responsibility to maintain the vast green space they have jurisdiction over along the lakefront."


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 10:28 AM

Broken Promises to a Broken Gulf (NY Times editorial)

Published: April 17, 2007

President Bush has reneged on his promises to Katrina's victims. Shamefully, the president has chosen the interests of bureaucracy over those of American towns on the brink of failure.

Over a year and a half later, there are 64,000 people still sleeping in trailers in Louisiana and far too many communities without schools, hospitals and other basics. These are unacceptable failures. At least part of the problem is a law that requires states to contribute 10 percent of the cost of most federally financed reconstruction projects. Mr. Bush waived that requirement after the Sept. 11 attacks (as his father did after Hurricanes Andrew and Iniki) but he refuses to do so for the Gulf Coast.

A law written to deal with isolated tornadoes does not fit the total devastation of an entire region, and particularly the drowning of a major city like New Orleans. But municipalities are still being asked to pony up by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, even when they are broke.

Louisiana has tried to ease the problem by covering the local share out of a separate pot of money (from Housing and Urban Development block grants) only to find the conflicting demands of the two federal bureaucracies nearly insurmountable.

In Louisiana, this bureaucratic nightmare has left the financing for roughly 20,000 projects in limbo, while generating 2.6 million documents and the attendant overhead costs. Recognizing the urgency of the situation, both the House and the Senate have passed versions of the cost-sharing waiver, but they are attached to the spending bill for Iraq, which President Bush has vowed to veto if it includes a deadline for a troop withdrawal. The administration also argues that Congress has already committed over $110 billion for Gulf Coast relief and reconstruction.

That is certainly a large sum. But so much money was spent on immediate needs, like housing victims in hotels, that only a relatively small share was left for rebuilding the shattered coastal areas across five states. The State of Louisiana estimates the gap between the devastation there and the federal and private payouts at $34 billion.

It is particularly unfortunate because New Orleans — where the failure of the federally built levee system led to the most damage and suffering — has finally come up with a limited, practicable rebuilding program that requires the waiver. Led by a respected disaster recovery expert, Edward Blakely, the $1.1 billion plan focuses on 17 areas for rebuilding, including the city's historic centers, old markets and key traffic junctures.

The city says it will finance its plan mostly through a pair of bond issues and partly with federal funds. Even then it expects to come up $324 million short. New Orleans could get the money from the state — if the matching requirement were waived. Those state funds are currently waiting to be used to cover the 10 percent share of those 20,000 projects.

In a lofty speech soon after Katrina, Mr. Bush vowed that "we will do what it takes" to rebuild the damaged communities. He did not say, "Unless easily waived regulatory restrictions prohibit us."


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:07 PM

With any luck the Bush administration will be able to blame and shame the victims for failing to do something about finding a home before now without begging from good honest folks like the Bush family and friends at this late date.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Amos
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:36 PM

Still Trying to House Katrina's Victims


Published: March 28, 2007
The Bush administration's mishandling of the Hurricane Katrina housing crisis has often looked like an attempt to discourage survivors from applying for help. The House has taken an important step toward reversing this policy with a bill that would require the Department of Housing and Urban Development to issue tens of thousands of new housing vouchers under the Section 8 program, which allows low-income families to seek homes in the private real estate market.

Many of these families would have long since found permanent homes and settled into new lives had the Bush administration brought HUD — which was created to deal with these kinds of situations — into the picture at the very start. But Hurricane Katrina arrived just as the administration had made up its mind to cripple HUD and the successful Section 8 program, partly as a way of offsetting tax cuts for the wealthy.

The administration instead rigged up a confusing and inflexible housing program and put the Federal Emergency Management Agency in charge. FEMA frustrated landlords and Katrina's victims alike. Last year, one federal judge likened the convoluted application process — which too often led vulnerable families to lose aid without knowing why or having reasonable recourse to appeal — to something out of a horror story by Kafka.

With thousands of families scheduled to lose their temporary aid by September, the Senate should move quickly to pass this much-needed legislation. Hurricane Katrina's victims should not have to keep paying the price for the administration's misplaced animosity toward low-income housing.

(New York Times editorial)


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 03:48 PM

Thanks, bobad.... Everything makes sense now...


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:50 PM

The truth is finally revealed.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Old Guy
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 12:47 PM

Bobert won't say what he believes. He makes insinuations but he won't say he believes his insinuations are true.

This means he doesn't believe them himself. He takes a cheap shot and ducks. Brave courageous and bold eh wot?

Bobert:

"Seems the real disaster was that Bush was too busy carnking up the funding his new shiney war in Iraq to be bothered with covering up the rear... And Katrina out flanked him...

17% of the what was requested for maintinance of the levee system by the Corps of Engineers is all that Bush coughed up the year before Katrina..."

Do you believe that the levees, or the levee system, failed because GWB cut the USACOE maintenence funding to 17%?

YES ___
NO ___


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Oct 06 - 09:31 AM

No, I haven't answerwed that particular question, Old Guy, and nor will I... It is a trap question... I've explained the trap to you and explained why I won't answer it... You won't answer the same converse question yourself but you will say that you "believe" that the levees still would have been breeched... Believing and stating as fact are two different statements...

If, however, you'd like to answer the converse question then fine... Then I'll spring the "prove it" trap on you...

Considerin' how many times you have now asked the same "trap question" makes me think of how Einstien defined "insanity" when he observed that "insanity is repeating a behavior expecting different results"... Seems to fit you purdy well...

If you want to play yes-no, yer gonna have to take the "trap" out of the questions 'cause I mighta been born at night but it weren't last night...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Old Guy
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 11:25 PM

Bobert:

You have not answered this question:

Are you saying the levees would not have failed if Bush had funded the USACE 100%

YES___
NO ___

If you have, point it out. And for the umpteenth time, you don't have to prove it.

You insinuate things but you won't state them like a drive by shooter, a sniper that is too chicken to expose himself to scrutiny of his convictions.

You have no beliefs. You just like to sling mud without getting your hands dirty.

You have painted yourself in a corner and all you can do is claim I can't read.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:27 PM

Refresh my last post...

But read it this time, Oldster... You keep askin' questions that have been answered... But a new battery in yer *readin' aid* 'cuase you ain't readeratin' too good...


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Old Guy
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 10:18 AM

Well, I never said you had to prove it but you demand that I prove it.

Standard method of operation for a crybaby liberal that is too chicken to say what he believes.

The Liberal double standard. Your opponents have to prove things but you don't. In addition you don't even have to make any firm statements to be proven or disproven.

Because everything I have heard and read, I believe that the levees would have failed even if GWB had funded the USACE 100%

Are you saying the levees would not have failed if Bush had funded the USACE 100%

YES___
NO ___

Turn that bluster into something firm. You acuse me of dodging questions while you refuse to answer on the grounds that it may stand to prove your insincerity and facetiousness.


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Oct 06 - 08:45 AM

The yes-no question is the *bait* and the "prove it" ain't far behind...

Actually, I was the first to set up the "prove it" trap a long time go on you and if you were smart enough not to fall for it I'm sho nuff smart enough to stay the heck outtta it...

But since you say that that you "believe" that the levees would have failed would you now like to offer up what evidence you have collected from reliable news sources???

And, keep in mind, that we are talkin' Katrina here and not a Cat 5 storm...

And keep in mind that part of the levee "system" isn't just the walls but also the pumping system...

Now, Oldster, bring on your evidence... And, please... no editirialists. por favor'...

BTW, if you reread your last post you use the the word "believe" in describing yer position but in your little yes-no trap you take the "believe" option for me out... Hmmmmmm??? Why do you expect to hold me to a higher standard than yourself???


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Old Guy
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:45 PM

"That even had the maintenance been fully funded that we would have had the axact same results"

Bingo, You have reinforced my belief again.

"3rd grade-ish "prove it" argument"

Where did I ask you to prove it? Again, you don't have to prove it.

Now what do you believe?

You like make insinuations but you won't put your name on them. Now who is the cowardly one?

I believe the levees would have failed even if GWB had funded the USACE 100%.

Are you saying the levees would not have failed if Bush had funded the USACE 100%

YES___
NO ___


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:39 PM

BTW, what do you honetly believe, Olsdter??? Do you beileve that, contrary to Hunter Johnston, of Johnston & Associates, who stated "If then Army Corps capabilities for the SELA program had been fully funded, theres is no question that Jefferson Parish and New Orleans would be in a much better position", that even had the maintenance been fully funded that we would have had the axact same results???

Is that what you believe, Old Guy???

Maybe you'd like to tell us why someone who knows much more about the levee sytem, it's maintance and its shortcomings from being unerfunded than either of us would make such a public pronouncement???

Maybe you'd like to grag a flat-earther so-called scientist in to proclaim that the levees would have failed anyway, no matter...

Maybe you'd just like to say, "That's what I belive, even if it isn't based on facts other than the flat-eart scientists opinion..."

I can live with that, Olster, but to continue your 3rd grade-ish "prove it" argument is a tad thread-bare....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:20 PM

No, you prove it...


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