Tech: Sound Engineers

Subject: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,Hen Harrier
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:16 PM

Please refer to the Demon Barbers thread to see my comments.

I think we need to start a new thread here (I couldn't find any others).

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 12:59 AM

Hen, It is easy to criticize sound engineers and difficult to be one. Every auditorium / room / hall / outdoor gig has its own acoustic and natural echo (Or lack thererof) profile. You have to zero the room first. I use a "pink noise" generator to evaluate each room.
Then, ya gotta have a lot of patience with "Artistes".
You have to have a good knowledge of the sound frequencies of human vocals and various instruments. When someone sings you have to quickly get their best range nailed down so that it sounds as warm as you can get it.
Most of the good SEs I know are also musicians themselves and drifted into the job because the SEs they were using sucked! I've played in rock and folk bands and specialize in acoustic sound these days. I'm told I'm good by performers and audience alike.
Amplified acoustic sound is an art of using the various EQ devices/reverb units to get the sound the artist(es) is looking for.
I can make you sound as good as you can be, but if you sing off-key or your instrument is not in tune, I can't fix it. I can tell you through the monitor that it is out of tune but I must wait 'till the end of the song.
It also helps to have a CD of the performer to listen to before the gig so I know what they are supposed to (want to) sound like.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Grab
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 09:10 AM

At Broadstairs, year before last, there was a very good duo with a guitarist and a drummer. The sound man had the drums miked and amplified to the point where they were significantly louder than guitar and vocals put together. We grabbed one of them during the interval and said "can you get the soundman to get this right?" He replied that it definitely wasn't how they wanted to sound, but he couldn't risk pissing off the soundman.

In my (limited) experience:-

- The difference between a good soundman and an excellent soundman is being able to tweak the EQ to make people sound as good as possible.

- The difference betwen a good soundman and a disastrous soundman is being able to hear how loud each instrument is, relative to each other, and being able to judge how loud the overall sound needs to be to fill the room.

- A large proportion of soundmen are disastrous.

- Most halfway-competent musicians can do better than disastrous soundmen, simply by virtue of being able to hear the individual instruments.

And to quote David Knopfler, "If you've ever adjusted the bass or treble on your stereo, then you're halfway to being a sound engineer." A joke, but not so far off the truth.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,Hen Harrier
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 10:06 AM

Thanks very much for that, folks, very interesting. As you probably guessed, I don't really know much about the subject but I know what I like and what I'm comfortable with (and that aint chest thumping stuff!)

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: JohnB
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 10:23 AM

Guest,John seems to have nailed most of it. What he did not talk about though is all of the little tiny things that can "sometimes" (read EVERY time) go wrong. Little things like flat batteries in someones guitar, yeah the same someone who just changed it yesterday. Every connection you can name is a potential non-connection waiting to happen. There are hundreds if not thousands in an average setup, 12 in each connected xlr cord for a start and thanks to Mr Murphy we know when disaster will strike.
It is also one of those fields where people think that they can do better than the "idiot" running the board. Many times that is not the case, because they don't even know what is going wrong. Could most wannabees have actually patched the whole system together to start with. Do they know the difference between an insert and a send, where do the cords for the EQ go, is that an input or an output.
Have some sympathy for a decent sound person and "PAY" them for it, you will probably get what you pay for. Very few ameteurs would hack a day in the the real world, hell I know I would't.
JohnB

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: John Robinson (aka Cittern)
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 01:12 PM

I was once asked to put the guitar in tune (that was an audient asking not the guitarist!)

A mate of mine once had an audient tap him on the shoulder and ask him to fix the air conditioning

There is only one rule. Every pub has a sound engineer. He always knows better.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 01:18 PM

I have always considered the sound man to be another member of the band. When touring or local gigging, I always bring "my guy". He knows our sound, he knows my vocal inflections, he knows the what I am trying to get out of the interpretation. Even when I play large festivals, my guy is in back with the sound man.

I came to this after an important gig was seriously affected by a sound engineer who didn't listen. I went to this guy and spent a great deal of time explaining the "bass cut" to him, as well as the sound we are after. He promptly set his sound to the defaults he used, and spent the gig talking to someone on his cellphone. I literally was talking to him from the stage and he ignored me. The offshoot of this is that he was fired from this venue never to return (the Board of Directors of the Festival are great fans and were in the audience and knew how we should sound), and I committed to a full share on all gigs to the soundman (my guy). It has been the best money I have ever spent.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Grab
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 01:18 PM

Oh, forgot to say. If you've been to a gig and the sound has been top-notch, thank the soundman - they deserve it.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Chris Green
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 03:36 PM

We've been pretty lucky with sound guys on the whole. There have been a couple of notable exceptions, but I tend to work on the basis that having a go at them serves no useful purpose - if they're crap anyway, giving them a bollocking won't make them any better and they'll stop trying on your behalf. I just don't generally bother to thank them from the stage. I must stress, however, that such experiences have been few and far between, and it has to be a pretty shite and insensitive mix to piss us off!

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 04:56 PM

Yes, many people take some persuading to turn down the bass on voice mikes to improve clarity. Another big problem is those who adjust the gain to within half a dB of the point where feedback produces a nasty screech, not realising that there is still a horrible peak in the frequency response even though the screech has stopped.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 05:32 PM

No good soundman minds being asked to adjust a mix - but remember that the optimum balance is a matter of preference.

Most soundmen object violently to the two fans of the two different guitarists who both want their mate louder than everyone else.

Personally, I hate people who think "harmony" means their mate out front of the mix and the rest should be bvs.

I also hate people who (typically) ask for "more bass" when they mean "more low mid".

I'd rather have a nice warm vocal sound than lose that feel simply for the sake of "clarity" (which often means a speech contour that makes the voice sound like a mess of sibilants).

I always make a point of finding someone who has heard the band frequently through other PA rigs and knows that band's live sound, to check that his ears tell him the same as my ears tell me.

I also hate sarky conceited gits who say "take the "honk" button off the monitor". Yes I have heard it said (not to me, I was just in the audience but I was ready to get up there and thump the "star" for his total lack of manners). The soundman cannot hear the monitors (I use headphones plus a small hifi amp driving headphones from the speaker outputs (!) to make sure I can hear the monitor mixes over the front of house, for brief moments as long exposure to that level would send me totally deaf, but even then I cannot tell how loud the stage monitors are) and he depends on the band to make it known what they want in the monitors.

If the band has on-stage guitar amps, then they are usually turned up by the band until it is essential to drive the vocals as hard as you can to get the vocals over the stage amps. One venue with a grunge/metal band I was using the house rig with my mixer and the band put the guitar amps so high the 14 kilowatt house rig could not make the vocals audible! This was in a venue with a capacity of about 300.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 05 - 07:29 PM

Nice to hear that some people realise that sound engineers are not emissaries of the dark one sent to pollute all that is pure and folky!

Some obviously still don't like them, but the arguments for the defense seem to be getting stronger.

Maybe some kind of list of good sound engineers could be set up on mudcat? Lists of bad are not a good idea, the legal implications notwithstanding, it may be a bit rough to ruin a career on the basis of the night that EVERYTHING went wrong.

And there's the old money saw.

Cheers,

QTWF

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: muppitz
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 05:42 PM

I'm sure I have no idea who duellingbouzoukis may have in mind as a bad experience! (Ahem!)

(Not me personally, but I have a fair idea!)

muppitz x

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 09:11 PM

My favorite (true) SE story was the night I was running sound at a show. This fella comes up and tells me he was on next and was going to play the Digeridoo. This was a new one on me (and I'd even figured out that bagpipes need an extra mic to get the sound from the thumb hole on the back of the chanter!)
So I asked him, "How do you mike a digeridoo?"
"Well" he says, (and it becomes immediately obvious that he has spent too much time among the Aussies) "You get a five-foot piece of one-and-a-half-inch PVC pipe and ..."
"No, no, no!" says I. "I want to know where I place the MICROPHONE!"

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 09:36 PM

Lucky he wasn't an Aussie, or he might have told you!

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 22 Nov 05 - 10:37 PM

Fool, He was such a stupid asshole, I had already guessed the best place to shove it! (I didn't - as it was an expensive item).

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,Bill the sound
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 02:14 PM

It's a thankless job- if you get it right nobody says a word but if you make a small mistake everybodt knoqs a better way. but I still enjoy doing it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: danensis
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 04:08 PM

I used to do sound mixing many years ago, and the technology has improved in leaps and bounds, but the sound doesn't seem to be getting any better. I often see someone playing away on an instrument and there isn't a trace of it in the mix. I do question whether many operators know what the different instruments sound like?

Then there is the question of volume. My suspicion is that operators have monitored at such high sound levels for so long they have mid-range deafness. Many's the gig I've been to where the mix sounds better from the foyer than in the hall. I know see people at festivals wearing industrial ear protectors!

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,Hen Harrier
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 10:43 PM

"Operators........have....deafness." That's exactly what I meant!

Still, it's an ill wind etc. - good business for ear protector sellers! Sorry, I'm just being a wee bit cynical.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 23 Nov 05 - 11:43 PM

I have mixed rock 'n' roll to acoustic gigs and when the call is for high volume I use professional ear protectors which lower the sound level without distorting the frequencies. Industrial ear protectors are designed to kill the harmful high frequencies.
As a bass player in my younger days, I can't say my hearing has not been damaged by standing too near the drummer's cymbals.
A good aid to a sound man is a Real Time Sound Analyser which gives a 1/3 octave graphic readout of the sound frequencies coming out of the mains.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,Ralph
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 05:15 AM

Ah "Bill the sound"....How true!

Whilst mixing a (now defunct) English dance band at a Sat night dance in Stoke on Trent in the early 90's, I was harangued by a gentleman (well, OK Morris Dancer!) telling me that he couldn't hear the melodeon. I dutifully raised the gain on the appropriate channel, was he satisfied.....?   No!

I looked perplexed, as I always try to please...

What the gentleman had fail to notice was, that the tune being played was in B Flat, being led by the Soprano Sax player, and said Melodeon player was at the bar buying a pint!...Doh!

He still wasn't happy...Ho Hum.

FOH engineers always get blamed. It was nice to get my own back just once.

As far as hearing loss goes, All 25 of my colleagues who spend a lot of time doing loud gigs (Glasto, Reading etc) have all had hearing checks in the past couple of years, (Health and Safety stuff).

We all passed with flying colours, apart from a slight dip about 6-7 KHz. We blame the crack of a snare drum.

Just my 2 pennorth Ralphie

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 05:32 AM

John Robinson was PA man for Julie Ellison at my club last Friday and this is what I posted on my thread

"John R, your PA work is a credit to how it should be done. Maybe you should do some workshops for budding PA geezers. :-)

The truly hard work that you and Julie put in, showed in the quality of the results. Excellent night."

I agree that if somebody does a good job give them the credit they deserve.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: cobber
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 05:37 AM

We had some great sound men over the years but we found some bad ones, particularly at folk festivals when we didn't have our usual people with us. (I'm talking about Australia). Most of the ones we had complaints about were only used to electric instruments. It was always a giveaway when the soundie pointed at a mandolin and said, "What's the hell is that?" When we started back in the late sixties there was no foldback but as things improved it was a split off front of house. I still think that if all the band listens to the same mix they should be able to balance themselves and make the sound job easy, but most modern systems are unable to give you the same mix front and back. A lot of systems have several different mixes on stage and I reckon this only encourages the innate self-centredness of musicians (of which I'm one) We did a tour supporting Steeleye span once and they had eight different mixes on stage. That's what they like and they had their own soundie and mixing desk to achieve it. I also agree with the previous person who said thank the soundie if he does it well. This is not only good manners, but it helps to develop a relationship with the most powerful person in the venue.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: mooman
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 07:35 AM

I think I agree with John Rouse for many sound problem cases.

I was recently at a gig watching the very excellent Bob Mould play his socks off. Unfortunately, the sound was a deafening sea of middle frequencies. I went back as far as I could in the auditorium which improved things marginally and ended up standing right next to the state-of-the art mixing panel being used. I could clearly see the sound analyzer which confirmed my suspicions. The wazzock behind the desk, however, seemed completely oblivious to his carnage and more interested in his pint.

Fortunately, I have been to more concerts with good sound than bad.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 03:16 PM

Some acoustic guitarists do not like too much tizz on the top or scoop out of the middle - they would rather have the wood. I know of one biggish name (I never did his PA) who told me he asks for a line feed and puts his own compact mic and equalizer on stage so that he can send what he thinks a guitar sounds like.

If a crucial guitar is pluggable it is a good plan at sound check to give the guitarist a really long lead (or a wireless pack) and ask him to come off stage to listen to the front of house. When he is happy you know what he likes, and you can re-tailor the sound as the audience comes in (audiences are a nuisance, they affect the acoustics of the room!) to try to keep the preferred sound.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 07:31 PM

Richard, you hit it right on the head! The audience is the problem! You get the sound balance perfect at the sound check in the empty hall, then they let in several hundred 200 lb water-filled sound absorbers and it takes you about three or four songs (on the first song you are also having to pay close attention to performers who are frantically gesturing at you to turn them or their instrument up/down in the monitor) to reset the EQ and balance levels. The only good thing is that there are no more people on the stage than at the sound check so the monitor mix changes are usually minimal. Polite performers will end a song before asking for less/more volume/mids/bass etc.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 07:34 PM

The problem with those wonderful sound analyser displays is that if you just look at the pretty picture, you can mangle the balance of the sound enough that you CAN send up with a 'flat' display - unfortunately the sound is then 'flat' too. If people with little 'musical training' start training to be 'sound engineers', then they have little idea of what the 'sound' is supposed to be, just whether they have twiddled all the knobs or not. And of course, the more toys you have, then you HAVE to twiddle them ALL. But a piano has 88 keys, and you are not supposed to push them all down at once... :-)

That is one of my criticisms of much recorded music (and 'live' miked performances with more than a couple of instruments) I hear - they all sound the same. Damn Phil Spector and his 'wall of sound'!!! (more properly called 'wail of sound)!!!!

CONTRAST PLEASE!!!!

The comments about always trying to make the artist sound the 'same' no matter what the acoustic conditions are, tend to raise my hackles...

And with 'folkies' who produce a nice pretty looking CD with a dozen or more tracks that all have the same sound, the same pace, the same thumpty thump rhythm - well I am glad for downloading (even small segments) as if I bought the CD I would probably only play it once...

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 24 Nov 05 - 08:29 PM

Fool, you obviously have a distrust of sound engineers. Remember that it has to be a team thing with SEs and performers. SEs want to know what you want to sound like. True SEs are part of the performance. But if you become too prissy we tend to switch off.
A sound check should last no more that 30 minutes - maybe more for larger groups (the SE will have already been there for some time setting up the PA and EQing the room).
A frequency analyzer is a mere tool. You have to know what it is telling you to use it properly. What a good analyser will do is analyze "white" or "pink" noise to tell you what each room's natural sound frequencies are. This helps to balance the mains to the room (and avoid feedback) before the SE even tries to get the performer's sound down.
SEs have to listen to the performance. If you suck musically or play out of tune, the SE cannot fix that. The SE can make you sound the best you can. Most good SEs I know are very patient and slow to anger but if you really piss the SE off he can also make you sound like a real amateur. Remember that!
The remainder of your post was not relevant to sound engineering.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 12:15 AM

One problem I had, even after a good thorough soundcheck, is that I raise or lower my my voice for dramatic/comedic effect either by projecting more forcefully, or approaching and backing off from the mic.
The SE then takes it upon himself to raise or lower the volume as he hears fit, thus eliminating the effect I am trying to achieve.
So now, at a festival or show, I'll tell the SE ahead of time that when he hears my voice level rise or fall, not to adjust it, because that's what I want.
Most of them appreciate the information, and during my performance, they can lean back and have a beer without haing to tweak.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: HuwG
Date: 25 Nov 05 - 10:02 AM

As a SE (in a very small way) in the past, I have been known to use the desk to deliberately annoy members of the audience or performers. Click here Just occasionally, when artist and or audience become more than usually obstreperous, the little guy with horns and pitchfork wins the debate over the one with wings and a halo on the other shoulder.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Kenneth Ingham
Date: 26 Nov 05 - 07:28 AM

T the club I go to there is a great sound engineer called Andy something or other. He sorts it out!

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Claymore
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 02:05 AM

As one who has done mostly acoustic sound for the past twenty years, I've seen 'em come and go, and a great deal of new processers to boot.

Seamus, I wonder why no-one has mentioned a compresser to you which, when properly set with a "soft knee ratio," would allow you to add volumn for dramatic effect without blowing the speakers.

As for a Dige, try an X-Y stereo setup with wind puffs on the mic heads, about 4 inches from the end of the tube (Close to the first cycle of the intial vibrato cycle) and pan slowly from left to right if there's a solo or intro. It puts you inside the tube if done right. The 45 degree angle on the mic heads avoids the effects of wind compression on the mic capsules.

As for the most basic skill of the sound guy, it is the ability to appear to turn a knob or ajust a slider while actually doing nothing to the board, and looking up at the complainer with a questioning glance, and a "Did that do it?" comment without the smirk.

A couple of more comments:

Monitor Wars - the fact that during the progress of the performance you gradually lose the ability to hear yourself (Kind of like smells) and suddently everyone is demanding to hear them selves in the monitors. Monitors are for cueing, volumn matching, and rythmn exchange, NOT TO HEAR YOUR STUPID SELF.

Because most people want to be near the performers, and some SEs place the speakers next to the stage, the crowd has the choice of being near the performers or going deaf. Place your speakers high on stands and use tilt adapters (Yorkville, from Canada, makes some good ones) to aim the speakers down towards the middle of the audience from high right and left. Since most tweeters use a 90 X 45 degree angle, if the speaker is placed level, 22.5 degrees of the most direct sound from the tweeters is wasted. Using a 15 degree adapter directs an additional 15 degrees down closer to the center of the audience and reduces the loss to 7.5 degrees of direct input.

Notice how the speakers are placed in the permenent setting in a good theater, high and at a 15 degree angle. Good luck!

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Dipsodeb
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 06:50 AM

I heard he resigned there's another one now!

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 05 - 09:55 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 28 Nov 05 - 12:04 AM

I'd have to completely disagree with Claymore on the use of Compressors for acoustic sound reproduction. If you want the sound distorted it's the way to go, tho". His other recommenations are for big halls - I dunno where he gets audiences that size for folk.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 05 - 07:47 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,Fullerton
Date: 29 Nov 05 - 07:57 AM

I'd have to completely agree with Claymore on the use of Compressors for acoustic sound reproduction. If you don't want the sound distorted it's the way to go.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 29 Nov 05 - 08:37 AM

I'm a long-time supporter of a non-profit that brings bands, usually Scottish or Irish, to the Midwest.

When we use our own sound man, the sound is good. (Yes, I've thanked him for that.)

It is almost always bad news when we hear "The band is bringing its own sound man." What we get then is somebody's brother or buddy, who is twenty-something years old and wants to see America. His definition of a good sound is a loud sound. The term "threshold of pain" has no meaning for him. Almost certainly, he has not attended a large number of concerts or a variety of concerts.

I want to support my friends in their attempt to bring traditional music to town, but when there's a sound man like this, I either walk out at half-time or ask for my money back.

In an attempt to meet people halfway, I talk hearing protection to the concerts, small blobs made by Mack. I find I don't need to insert them all the way; I just need to present an obstacle to the higher frequencies.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Nov 05 - 08:53 AM

I guess that might have been your experience, but mine has been that my own sound man understands my sound better than anyone. That is why he is paid a full share. He knows how to zero out a room, and he knows how to adjust the sound based on the song/tune we are playing.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 05 - 11:48 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,John
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 12:44 AM

Jeez, Fullarton, you don't actually seem to know what a compresor does! It DISTORTS the sound by squeezing down the headroom of your signal.
Compressors are great for rock but are withouth use in acoustic music (one exception - a harmonica played through a bullet mic!)

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 12:52 AM

Compressors DISTORT the acoustic volume RANGE of a sound source. In other words, at a certain sound level, it changes the rate of increase of the sound level to a lower rate.

Expanders do the reverse. They INCREASE the RANGE of the volume of the sound.

Compressors are useful for generating Muzak type sounds, i.e. of limited acoustic range, suitable for playing pseudo-celtic music in elevators so that people remain calm while plunging to their deaths when the cable snaps.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 07:20 AM

My recent experience is on the club circuit in South Wales.

There is usually a single singer with backing tracks, surely the simplest possible setup. But STILL almost everybody (or often his wife at the controls) turns up the bass, treble and reverb to maximum, and ends up distorted as hell and singing in the bathroom.

Mrs Pavane won't let me advise (Quite rightly, I suppose, no-one likes a smart-ass, but how else will they ever find out how much better they could sound if no-one tells them?)

(However, I must say that a music shop tried to sell me a speaker which had an audible buzz, so maybe they also don't know any better.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST,Hen Harrier.
Date: 01 Dec 05 - 07:52 AM

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 08:54 PM

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Claymore
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 05:50 PM

Let me respond to the compressor discussions above. Yes, compressors are used for Rock Music but they do have their place in acoustic music reinforcement, and almost exactly in the situation described by Seamus Kennedy. If the sound is set at a reasonable volumn with realistic headroom, and one performer decides to increase his volumn for "dramatic effect", it is still there; just not at the rate he expresses, and certainally not at an input which would cause the amps to blow the speakers.

You need to remember that if you have set your levels well after a realistic sound check, you most want to ensure that the noise floor is extremely low so that during the quiet sequences of a given piece of music, you do not pick up what is often called "hash" "frying bacon" or "pink noise", but in reality is the 60 cycle hum (in the US) or any of its resonant/harmonic cycles, such as 120, 240, 480, etc. or input from the lighting system or a bad ground.

(Several people have objected when I suggested a ground lift to reduce "hiss," but the voltages in the US are not the same as in Europe, and for about $9 you can by a two pole 15 amp GFI which will allow you to plug a three prong plug into a two prong adapter and then into this GFI, hence to the power source, with no danger, and a significant loss of 60 cycle hum. For you European types, they may manufacter a similar item in your voltages, as a retrofit GFI for "older homes' as this one is marketed in America.)

When I said "soft knee compression" it is clear that several individuals who objected have no idea what I was saying. Without getting into a long side-bar, it is a ratio of reduction which gives plenty of room for "dramatic effect" but the draw-down is at a lesser rate than for other forms of compression.

Remember that at the end of the day, that "dramatic effect" may be completly limited by the amp, without the sound engineer doing anything at all; kind of like crashing into a brick wall. Almost anyone has heard it, as it develops into incoherent distortion. What a compressor does is slows the approach to the brick wall without the distortion (providing it is set at a proper rate of attack, decay, and the ratio is "soft" but within limits of the amp/speakers outputs.

Hope this clears things up.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 06:46 PM

Claymore you probably need to draw a graph. No idea how you do that in html.

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:17 PM

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Bob TB
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:25 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Tech: Sound Engineers
From: Bob TB
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:37 AM

The talk of artists using their own SEs prompts me to put the other side. Early on as an SE a reasonably well known band provided their own SE and I let him take over. The guy knew nothing and the sound was a complete disaster! We spent half their set edging him off the desk and the other half getting everything back to where we started. Of ciourse they hadn't turned up for a sound check. This is not, in my experience, unusual in folk mucsic. Ever since then I have let the artists SE advise but not take control - at least not until I have confidence in them. After all it is my reputation that is a stake, not theirs. Bad sound is always the SEs fault ;-)

Its a careful balancing act.

Bob