The Bob Dylan Mystique

Subject: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: rick fielding
Date: 15 Jan 99 - 11:59 AM

If my memory serves me right, then good old Bobby released his first album in the very early sixties. (he recorded as a sideman and anonymously as Blind Boy Grunt for a least a year before the Columbia album) Here we are approaching the millenium, and so many of us still have opinions on his work, his persona, his ethics, and his alledged "betrayal" of his folkie supporters. Wow! that's longevity, and certainly makes his inclusion in "most significant folkie" a valid if debatable issue.

Every so often I put that first record on and I'm still amazed. The music was unlike anything that I had ever heard. Extroverted to the max, but with incredible discipline. I've heard bootleg tapes from the same period that were just plain awful..out of tune, sloppy, off key, and hardly worth playing a second time, so I have to think that John Hammond sr. (the producer) got the very best from him. The guitar playing was absolutely superb! The singing, VERY scary...and in a nutshell, memorable. Whatever it was he had, it worked!

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 15 Jan 99 - 12:35 PM

I'll always recall a story a good friend of mine told me a few years ago. He was visiting New York in the late fities or early sixties and being a musician himself he was checking out the local scene. He said he was in a club one night when this guy came out in overalls, playing guitar and singing horribly. He recalls laughing at the tenacity of this guy for getting up in public in the first place. He then went on to say that on the drive back to Toronto, he couldn't get the songs out of his head. He was watching T.V. several months later and saw the same "Hayseed" on one of the big T.V. shows of the day and of course, it was Bob.

Thank God that those times allowed a person to say something if they had something to say. You didn't have to sound like Celine Dion to be popular.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: John Twomey
Date: 15 Jan 99 - 04:12 PM

I never felt betrayed by Mr. Dylan; he was just in tune with the times, slightly ahead of the curve: he is still.

Every studio recording feels like getting a strange letter from an eccentric, bohemian uncle. Each contains at least one gem, usually more, and songs not appreciated at first, may grab you years later, and at odd moments old favorites may reveal new layers of meaning, or phrases or references may become suddenly clear, in a new light.

His love for the folk tradition is obvious, even though he doesn't restrict himself to what is known now as "traditional music", though he constantly draws on it for insprition, and references it in his lyrics and music.

How ironic that in the year Dylan released "Good as I been to You" the Grammy for best folk allbum went to Greg Brown. Kudos to Mr. Brown for stating, This belongs to Bob Dylan.".

One more thing. I disagree with those who say his best work lies far behind him; he writes for his age, and for the times, and he remains ahead of the curve. The media regularly savages him. They hold a huge bias toward him and some of the backlash he gets is a product of this bias.

We tend to hold great artists in low esteem, shame, shame on us for treating an artist of Dylan's stature so.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique, Another opinion
From: Don Meixner
Date: 15 Jan 99 - 05:06 PM

I guess I still fail to see the fascination. Dylan wrote many good tunes but the icon status eludes me. Tom Paxton, Phil Ochs, and Malvina Reynolds wrote as many good tunes and with the exception of Malivina, all sang better. Tom Paxton remains the topical bard that he always has been, clear of pen and voice, while Dylan mumbles his way, crptycally, through every record and performance I have heard and seen. Nashville Skyline approaches brilliance as do individual songs off many of his albums, but the same could be said for many singers that don't seem to enjoy the Cult Icon Status that Dylan has. Every song on Paxton's Morning Again album, which came out around the same time as Skyline is solid and incite full. Off later albums About the Children, When Princes Meet, and Icarus are especially good and inciteful songs. I think the sadness is that Phil Ochs didn't live long enough to fulfill his potential. But his songs too had a voice and style that no one has yet adequately measured. When I'm Gone, Cannons of Christianity, Pleasures of the Harbor, and Celia come immediately to my mind. I think that Dylans "goodness" is assured by his many good, solid songs but whether there is greatness therein; I remain unconvinced.

Don Meixner

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From:
Date: 15 Jan 99 - 07:59 PM

Actually, I thick Phil Ochs is no longer with us is because HE thought he had passed his prime...sad for him, sad for us.

Also, I hope there is a pun in Don's use of the word incitefull for insightful

John

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Jan 99 - 08:33 PM

I probably take a position that is a mix of John Twomey and Dan Meixner. But I lean towards John's position more. While I don't consider Dylan to be the most important figure of the twentieth century, or even in the top 20, he certainly is very important precisely because of the number of great songs in his body of work. No artist writes all great songs. Bards, regardless of the age in which they live, attempt to make a connection with the "folk" in a way that conveys a message. They always write far more poor songs, than great ones. Gutherie was like this, so is Dylan. But it is the number within that body of work that hit a nerve and capture a feeling or cause or event, and speak with a voice that captures the listener that determine greatness. On that score, Dylan is certainly one of the great ones. The only reason I don't consider him on the par with Seger, or Lomax or any of those is that he didn't go beyond his message to attempting to pass the genre on to others. And I don't fault him for that, it is just that Pete did, the Lomaxes did, Odetta continues to do so. He speaks to the time in which he lives, and that is why he is far from being past his time. But the greatest, I just can't get there. With regard to Dan's comment about his voice, his voice has never been what made him great. It is his lyric and his way with a phrase. Hell, have you ever listened to Woody sing. Any number of us in this community can sing "better", but no one could deliver his songs like he could.

All the best,

Mick Lane

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 99 - 10:52 PM

by the time I heard Dylan, I had already heard a LOT of wonderful music...I listened, heard a couple that were quite moving.."It's All Right, Ma"..."Hattie Carroll"..a few that sure were different, and some that simply did not speak to me..*shrug*...but basically, I did not like his musical style...the chanting, semi-tuneless mode with mumbled words.He DID hit a nerve with some who were at a very impressionable age, and achieved 'cult' status..which to me means, that once he made it big, he could have made a living for years just singing the phone book....

(personally, there are many singers who I can't understand why they did NOT become rich & famous!)

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Don Meixner
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 12:15 AM

I think there are many great singers who have not so great voices. Its more in what you have to sing than what you have to sing with I guess. Arlo Guthrie has a less than fabulous voice but he uses it well. You can understand what he has to say. The great Ronnie Drew's voice is something to behold. Iris Dement has a voice my likens to velcro. As poor as these voices are tonally, they are clear and understandable. Dylan's is not. Nashville Skyline being the only exception of which I am aware. This prooves he can sing well, he just doesn't it would seem. John, I would like to say there was a pun in incitefull and I was typing with my tongue in cheek. Saddly, there isn't. I just wasn't paying attention. And if Mick wants to call me Dan, thats fine too. I enjoy this type of debate too much to split any but the really big hairs. I recall an interview with Dylan where he was asked about his poetry. He said in escence, " I don't write poetry. I just stick words to gether that sound good. If there is any meaning in my songs, you put it there, not me." Clearly this isn't true with all his songs. It takes more than middling skill to come up with " Just Like A Woman" or "Hard Rain" but The jury must still be out on "Leopardskin Pillbox Hat". I still maintain that equall or greater skill was to be heard in Ewan Macoll, Phil Ochs, Ian Tyson, Tom Paxton, Pat Sky, Will Mclean, or even the equally mumbbly, Gordon Lightfoot. Regards to all

Don, or is it Dan, Meixner

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Lonesome Ernie J
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 12:48 AM

In a discussion of Dylan's contibutions, it seems appropriate to mention one of his least known masterpieces,"Talking World-Worn Flea Blues", a song that is both a moving allegory of man's struggle in an environment that,if not hostile, is at best indifferent to his existence ,as well as being without doubt the only Dylan song to utilize the mystifying images of a flea, an orange and a bicycle seat. L E J

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Rasta
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 03:33 AM

In one of the threads somene was in New york and said he saw a guy in coveralls in one of the clubs. and then saw him on tv.---the first time I ever saw bob on tv was a show called ( songs of freedom ) also on show I think was Odetta and Freedom singers with bernice Reagan of sweet honey and the rock.---Bob sang I believe -times they are a changin but he was pretty twisted as I recall so after the stataion break they sat him down and he sang only a pawn in there game or Lonsome death of Hattie carroll. I was awe struck. Though to this day I have highest regard for the Kingsto trio I do believe Dylan clearly changed many of our lives in a way to look at our times and life itself --we all have good n bad in our souls somehow and he is and was a reflection of those things. ---for others we had the bee gees and beatles and supremes and carpentrs and etc, theres plenty of room for that kind of music too (your right from your side and Im right from mine-were just one too many morning s and a thoussand miles behind- so ----thanks Bob for the inspiration and thanks Pete seeger for your everything ya know what I mean ? --RASTAAAAAA--

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 06:55 AM

I'm sure I'm a bigger Dylan fan than Don or Mick but I also don't consider him a god either. But both Mick and Don touched on some things that to me have more to do with his mystique than his fame.

First, not all his songs are great and Mick's body of work point is quite true. Generally I like or dislike a song right away no matter who the artist is. Sometimes I change my mind as time goes by, but generally not. But Dylan...I'll be listenong along to something I've heard a hundred times, never caring much about it, and all of a sudden it hits me what a great song this is. How have I missed it all these years? I know that happens with other artists but none with the same impact for me as Dylan. It's strange for me to swap out good/bad/good bad/ like that, but with Dylan's stuff it's been happening for 30+ years!

Then there's this adaptability factor. Does anyone come up with so many different renditions of their own songs? Besides that, I'm always kinda' amazed at what other styles his songs fit into. Even some overplayed, chauvinistic, piece of crap like "Don't Think Twice" has stopped me in my tracks. If I heard that thing again......THEN, along comes Clapton on the 30 year tribute thingy and it's a BLUES. A lot of that had to do with Slow Hand himself and his tremendous abilities but, damn if it doesn't sound like an old blues tune, many of which were chauvinistic, but now the character sounds both sad and bitter over a lost love, instead of like a flippant, smart ass. Completely different take.

I too love Tom Paxton, Phil Ochs and many others. So many superb songwriters and singers...according to most accounts Dylan made sure he was in the right place at the right time and created his own mystique as he went. I think his self promotional talents are often overlooked. But that doesn't take away from his stature and his huge volume of songs. I always loved those little one liners that Don mentioned above...some saw through them, but to many it just added to the "mystique."

Finally...TO DON MEIXNER: I was more heavily influenced by Patrick Sky than by any other artist of the era. To the best of my filtering ability, I think you and I are the only ones to have brought his name up in the past year. Many years of moving around the country have separated me from my old worn out 33's and all I can now find available on CD (or any format) is the original "Patrick Sky" album. I still do a lot of his stuff but old age has cost me a lot of lyrics. Got any info on this? And what's become of him? Anybody? Maybe I oughta' try a new thread on him. catspaw

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 12:04 PM

Don,

Please forgive me, I get a little airheaded at times.

All the best,

Big Mack Lane

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: rick fielding
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 12:15 PM

To Catspaw.. I was reading through a trade mag yesterday and noticed that Pat Sky's album "Songs that made America Famous" was voted (by experts obviously) the WORST folk album ever!! Now if that doesn't make me want to find the record and listen to it, nothing will. I remember years ago being on a bill with Mr. Sky in Toronto, and laughing hysterically at his old time frailed banjo version of "I am the Very Model of a Modern Major General".

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 01:29 PM

Thanks Rick...that album required a nicely warped and somewhat evil sense of humor and lack of reverence to enjoy. I have that so ......but I can see how it was voted in. I've been looking and found that album on vinyl at the big used site, can't remember the name of it now. Must be the 50 mark that's killing me.

In any case, I think there were 6 albums and "Modern Major General" was on either "Photographs" or "Reality is Bad Enough." It cracked me up too. A while back, somebody was looking for "Jimmy Clay" and that too was on one of those two. I only saw him once live, about '70 or '71, at a festival type thing outside D.C. A lot of his stuff was very tongue in cheek humorous, some blatantly offensive (but with a sharp point), but his "serious" (don't know what else to call 'em) songs were really good and delivered with passion.

Didn't mean to get to ramblin' like that...Thanks for the info!!! catspaw

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: rick fielding
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 02:27 PM

dear 'paw, you might ask Sandy Paton for an update on Pat Sky's whereabouts. I seem to recall that he and Caroline know someone that is/was a friend of Pat's.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 03:00 PM

Hey Rick...Wanna' see somethin' kinda'weird? Read the Uillean Pipes thread. You had some good advice and I thought I'd read a few other threads before I wrote to Sandy Paton. Check out the pipes thread and you'll see what I mean. Now I'll send 2 messages.....catspaw

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: rick fielding
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 03:17 PM

Holy cow! Small world eh?

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: DonMeixner
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 03:42 PM

Somewhere I have a Pat Sky song book and I be happy to fill any holes in the lyric memory of anyone who asks. If I can. Modern Major General was on the Photographs album if I recall. (Whichever doesn't have the picture of John Hurt on the back) The last I knew, Pat was into Bagpipes and working for the Library of Congress.

Big Mick, I wish I could say I'm never airheaded. I know a number of Dans and they are fine folks. I figure as long as you got a vowel in there it was close enough.

Dave Meixner

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Jan 99 - 04:33 PM

DON/DAN/DAVE: If you were reading what Rick and I were talking about, you'll get a kick out of the Uillean Pipes thread. Go check it out!!! Weird, huh. Thanks for your info and if you can find your songbook I'll let you know. There's only a couple in the DT and I know 'em. But a number of others should be. Thanks again, catspaw,cotspew,cutspam.........whatever

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: bbelle
Date: 17 Jan 99 - 01:26 PM

I've always had the "voice" but I'm not a writer. That is why I think I've always been mystified by Dylan. I'm not too fond of his recent stuff, but stiff get chills when I listen to his older stuff. Obviously, it strikes a chord somewhere inside me ... go figure. jenny

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: bob jr
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 09:54 PM

well i got to throw in two cents here unfortuantly you here an awful lot about "new bob dylans" but never new tom paxtons or new phil ochs and let me tell you if you have to wonder why then you might as well keep your head in the sand (not where i think it is but i am gonna be polite for once) bob didnt write great songs? please i could list about 50 0f the top of my head ewan macollic? the first time ever i heard his nonsense was enough although the pogues did a good version of dirty old town as for paxton i cant even be bothered but i do like phil ochs but mostly just his last album "my kingdom for a car" now there is protest music anyone can understand, just compare only a pawn in their game to phil's death of medgar evans to see why one was considered a "genius" and the other "a folk singer"

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: bob jr
Date: 11 Jul 00 - 09:58 PM

evers sheesh i should proofread what i type

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 12:35 AM

Mooh, Bob jr.

Bessie the heifer.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 12:50 AM

Aw geeziz, I'm busting a gut here Rick................

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Terry K
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 02:17 AM

Comparison with other singers and writers is pointless - Dylan was and is unique.

Criticisms of the technical quality of his voice are also pointless - many of the singers who have "good" voices are very often as boring as hell. Dylan is rarely boring.

The magic element is probably that the whole mix of songs, voice, music, delivery and pertinence to us and our times just happen to come together in the right way.

Another thing I find paradoxical is that someone so downbeat and understated can be so charismatic - the man has an aura about him, especially live, but even on TV as well. I still keep telling myself how lucky I am to have grown up in the Dylan era.

Cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: bob jr
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 02:35 AM

rick i dont know what your post means at all .....is it some kind of bovine humour that i am missing out on? and um there is no h in moo but there is one in huh?

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 11:06 AM

Rick,

You're enjoying the new persona, aren't ya?

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 11:13 AM

I been listening to some Dylan stuff this week. He is pretty cool! I love his goofy voice. I was listening to "Blonde on Blonde"...it seems people don't like it a lot, but I think it's pretty cool. There's this one called "Stuck In Mobile With The Memphis Blues" that's been in my head for the last couple days.

--mbo

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 11:22 AM

I've never been a great fan, own a couple of his early records and a songbook, know the usual early protest songs but recently heard something being played in a bar which turned out to be his Time out of Mind cd. Sounded pretty good to me in a Joe Cocker-ish sort of way (herself and I had a spat about who it was-I lost, thinking it was Tom Petty or Joe Cocker, she guessed right!). I may give the old boy another chance!
RtS

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 11:28 AM

Ya know I still go back to Bob's version of Roy Acuff's "Freight Train Blues" and listen in wonder. He breaks ALL the rules in that. No wonder a lot of folkies didn't like him. He BECOMES that freight train. Love the guy.

Rick

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: WillH (inactive)
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 11:41 AM

Don't know who is feeding you that stuff, Mbo, but it used to be thought that Blonde on Blonde was the best--still is, in my book!

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 11:45 AM

RTS,

I highly recommend Time Out Of Mind.

Rick, if you go here

www.bobdylan.com/performances/ (sorry, I can't Blueclickything)

You can here Bob performing the Stanley Brothers 'I Am The Man Thomas' and Muddys' 'Hoochie Koochie Man' live. Neat stuff.

I've been watching his set lists from this tour as I am going to see him on Tuesday. He has been doing a lot of Bluegrass on this tour, Rank Strangers, Dark As a Dungeon, Long Black Veil, Roving Gambler have all been performed on various nights. I'm hoping he'll do a 'grass song in Toronto.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 11:51 AM

Really Will? Online reviews always say it's too rowdy and "portentous," while "John Wesley Harding" is worlds better. I like them both...but dang here come that Mobile Blues again...!

--Mbo

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: GUEST,I guess
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 04:10 PM

Dylan may not be now, but for a few years he was an absolute original. that's why we're still talking about him. I think it would have done a lot for the mystique if he 'd died in that motorcycle accident. Kind of like James Dean. The older we get, the more chances we get to embarass ourselves.

g

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 04:29 PM

Well now ain't that the truth.

Meebo, "Blonde on Blonde" caught plenty of bad raps but it has a few classics too. Because of the sheer volume of work and the progression/regressions Dylan has gone through, most of his albums have had their share of flak and praise and its possible to find something you like on most.

When this thread started (almost two years ago) I said then that Dylan has a strange place in my heart since in his case more than anyone elses, I find myself ignoring a song for years, often just hating the damn thing. Then one day something clicks and its at the top of my list. The last one that happened with was awhile back, but was "Lay Down Your Weary Tune." One day it just hit me......Damn!!! What a song!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 04:48 PM

Mbo,

I can go months without listening to Stuck inside of Mobile, but I always find myself suddenly needing a fix and having to pop it in the player. I really can't think of any other song, Dylan or otherwise that effects me this way.

I sure consider Blonde on Blonde to be one of Bob's finest works. Blood On The Tracks is still my favourite, I think it's brilliant from start to finish.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 06:00 PM

As Steve knows, "Blood on the Tracks" is a favorite of mine and I agree with him on it. Back in the 8 track days, I went through about 8 or 9 copies of it. Planet Waves on the other hand is my least favorite with Desire a close second....Couple of songs I like on each, but it interesting that all of them came out within a few years of each other. Dylan goes through lots of changes. Some I like, some I don't. No denying the wordsmith though.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 06:07 PM

I can't believe he is doing Long Black Veil after the shit he gave Joan Baez all the time for singing it. He is such a jerk (total genius though).

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: bob jr
Date: 12 Jul 00 - 09:22 PM

i am a big country and western fan so i love nashville skyline its proof to anyone who thinks dylan couldnt sing also i like new morning ,great songs and real good musicians just jamming away but i got to admit that i like almost everything bob does so i guess i will stop talking bout him now

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 10:36 AM

Well, for a different angle on an age-old topic, let me offer my most humble opinion -- Dylan has a GREAT voice. To me, the ability to croon like Bing Crosby is a minor talent. But the ability to put across a lyric with the kind of subtlety and complexity that Dylan has is much more valuable. One of the things that I've always liked about Dylan is the way he mixes things together, conveying a range of overlapping emotions that doesn't fit neatly into any one category. Listen to the mix of sarcasm, weariness, playfulness and compassion in songs like "Just Like A Woman" or "Visions of Johanna" -- if that isn't a great voice, I don't know what is. Can you imagine anyone else singing those so well?

I'll admit that Dylan's voice had been a hit-or-miss proposition in recent times, as his songwriting has been. But in his prime (1963-66, with a blip on the chart in 1974), he was a master, and his voice was an integral part of the presentation. I would think that the folk/blues crowd would be able to put his voice in context and recognize how good it really is. Am I all alone on this?

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 11:46 AM

Whistle Stop,

No arguments here. A singer has to convey the emotions of a song, make you feel them. I have a hard time with Pop music for this reason, often the "pretty" voices lose the feel of the song. I have heard very few covers of Dylan songs that were as good as the original. Give me Bob, Willie, Ray Charles, Robert Johnson, Son House any day.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 12:09 PM

Bob jr. 25 years ago, after getting into my umpteenth debate with a "serious" folkie about why I thought Zimmerman was the most important folk performer of his day, I decided, "aw screw it", I'm done talkin' about him". Not a chance...he still inspires passions...even when he comes out with crap that would have killed any other singer's carreer. In my (occasionally) humble opinion, THAT'S what made him the most important. And I LOVE all that Ewan MacColl trad stuff! I just think that (for example) Dylan's take on Lord Randall (Hard Rain) is as important as MacColl's "true to the tradition" version.

Guest, I guess. Tacky though it may be, I agree with you about dying young. Most of us here have missed our chance.

Rick

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Mbo
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 12:17 PM

WHOA! I just thought of something! Bob would sound AWESOME singing "Dirty Old Town"!!!

--Mbo (who was once compared to Dylan)

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 03:45 PM

I wondered how long it would take for you to remember that Mbo. I still love the "Freewheelin" album but am only allowed to play it when no one else is home. The fact that I can sing along as loud as I please and not be accused of being off key appeals to me.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Catrin
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 03:52 PM

I sang at a friend's fortieth recently - all non-folkies present wasn't sure how to handle it so I did 'May you stay forever young' as it felt appropriate and like a kind of gift for my friend. People were 'amazed and surprised' to find it was bob dylan - I think he's brilliant.

Oh and something else - Andrew Motion - The poet laureate, claims that Dylan is one of the very few 'modern' song writers to write genuine poetry. I'm not sure about that but some of his songs, heard at the right time and in the right place, have moved me to tears.

Catrin

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Mbo
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 06:31 PM

Remember what, Sins?

--Mbo

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: bbelle
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 06:56 PM

One of two of the first songs I ever learned to play is Dylan's "Tomorrow is a Long Time." And if he had never written another word, I would have loved him for that. "Just Like a Woman" makes me weep. "With God on Our Side" makes me angry. I don't debate it or try to explain it. It just is ...

moonchild

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:48 PM

Horses for courses. I love Planet Waves.

Actually, part from most of Self portrait (and I like some of that even), there's not a Dylan record I don't love.

I remember something someone once wrote or said which summed it up for me. It might even have been the lad himself. The truth is, he isn't really a song writer in the sense that somoene like Ewan McColl, and a few of the other people mentioned were or are. He's a coiner and collector of phrases which he sticks together, like a sort of verbal collage.

In his best songs, he takes phrases which have various kinds of association, various kinds of reverberations in your mind, and he sticks them together with other phrases in a way that seems almost random at times. But it somehow works, and sets you thinking along some individual track that is personal to you,

In the late 60s I was working on a movement paper, and we used to find that with almost any story, you could pick a headline out of a Dylan song that would fit it, and would change the way you thought about the song afterwards.

You don't have to choose sides - it's not like some kind of contest where you pick your candidate and rubbish the rest. Appreciating Bob Dylan doesn't mean you have to discard Phil Ochs or Tom Paxton or Ewan McColl or Vin Garbutt or Colum Sands. But if you don't appreciate Dylan, you're missing out on something. Seriously.

Interesting that Andrew Motion the English Poet Laureate gets quoted as saying Dylan's a significant poet. Actually I reckon he's a long long way more significant than Andrew Motion is, but it was good of the man. Now if Seamus Heaney were to say he reckoned Dylan as a poet, that would be something indeed...(He may well have. He's about the same age, as I am. "Talkin' about my generation"... )

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: GUEST,Alistair
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 08:49 PM

I used to hate Dylan. then I liked him. Then I got to thinking that he was pretentious, then that he had lost his stuff. Then He came out with some really cool stuff. Dylan is Dylan, he is what he is, he is like Elvis or the Beatles, a self made myth who was in the right place at the right time and had the right stuff ( and the right management) to get him up there. At least he didn´t stagnate, like the Stones.

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: bob jr
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 09:23 PM

i was waiting for someone to say something bad about self-portrait! i play that one alot and there are some nice traditional songs on there (belle isle and copper kettle are both excellent) plus a few howling bad songs (in search of little sadie ,the boxer?) but i prefer it to any of these stinkers ,empire burlesque (bad) knocked out loaded (real real bad) down in the groove (argh) and you probably wont believe this one HIGHWAY 61 (i think the blues backing on this album is lame city) i have my own music store and you wouldnt believe how many times i will be playing nashville skyline or john wesley harding or the basement tapes and people ask "who is that?".

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Mbo
Date: 13 Jul 00 - 09:29 PM

I was blasting Rainy Day Women today...!

Subject: RE: The Bob Dylan Mystique
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Jul 00 - 06:16 AM

Rick, Bessie the heifer? Explain...Thanks. Mooh.