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BS: Depression and Anxiety

Janie 07 Jul 12 - 06:35 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 07 Jul 12 - 04:52 PM
Stringsinger 06 Jul 12 - 05:35 PM
Mrrzy 06 Jul 12 - 05:32 PM
katlaughing 05 Jul 12 - 11:27 PM
Bobert 23 Apr 12 - 08:03 PM
wysiwyg 23 Apr 12 - 12:15 PM
GUEST,IRNS 23 Apr 12 - 11:18 AM
SINSULL 23 Apr 12 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,I'd Rather Not Say 23 Apr 12 - 06:25 AM
Clontarf83 12 Aug 11 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Eliza 12 Aug 11 - 03:48 PM
Amos 12 Aug 11 - 03:41 PM
GUEST,IRNS 12 Aug 11 - 03:30 PM
GUEST,hg 03 Sep 09 - 11:04 PM
Janie 03 Sep 09 - 10:33 PM
GUEST,hg 03 Sep 09 - 08:30 PM
katlaughing 03 Sep 09 - 06:53 PM
Bryn Pugh 01 Sep 09 - 10:01 AM
Joe_F 31 Aug 09 - 09:04 PM
Stringsinger 31 Aug 09 - 03:22 PM
olddude 31 Aug 09 - 01:22 PM
olddude 31 Aug 09 - 01:10 PM
autolycus 30 Jan 08 - 01:56 AM
Janie 30 Jan 08 - 01:12 AM
Janie 30 Jan 08 - 01:03 AM
Donuel 29 Jan 08 - 07:13 PM
GUEST,New to this... 29 Jan 08 - 06:22 PM
katlaughing 29 Jan 08 - 03:32 PM
autolycus 29 Jan 08 - 02:49 PM
Megan L 29 Jan 08 - 02:45 PM
Wesley S 29 Jan 08 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,IRNS 29 Jan 08 - 02:23 PM
robomatic 02 Jan 06 - 05:37 PM
Once Famous 01 Jan 06 - 10:38 PM
Janie 01 Jan 06 - 08:27 PM
Peace 01 Jan 06 - 07:10 PM
Flash Company 01 Jan 06 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,I'd Rather Not Say 01 Jan 06 - 07:03 AM
Azizi 15 Dec 05 - 10:28 PM
LilyFestre 12 Dec 05 - 11:11 AM
Azizi 12 Dec 05 - 10:41 AM
Azizi 12 Dec 05 - 10:33 AM
saulgoldie 12 Dec 05 - 08:42 AM
GUEST 12 Dec 05 - 06:43 AM
Once Famous 11 Dec 05 - 08:32 PM
GUEST,I'd rather not say 11 Dec 05 - 08:32 AM
Peace 08 Dec 05 - 06:55 PM
robomatic 08 Dec 05 - 06:51 PM
autolycus 08 Dec 05 - 09:28 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 06:35 PM

hg, just coming back to this thread and seeing your post of 03 Sep 09.

I agree.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 04:52 PM

"BS: Happy Independence Day, America!!         

BS: Depression and Anxiety"

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 05:35 PM

One of the keys to depression and anxiety is the loading of perfection on ourselves.
People who are depressed or anxious tend to be obsessive in their quest for perfection and beat themselves up when they don't achieve this unattainable goal.

One of the best therapies for depression and anxiety is Cognitive Therapy.
It works if you stay with it. Been there.

The other valuable advice here is to choose an exercise program but don't beat yourself up if you don't do it every day.

This condition is treatable more today than it has ever been.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 05:32 PM

Also, get out into the sun, no matter how hot it is, get some sunshine every day.

good luck. Been there, love my meds.

PM me if you want, I won't tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 11:27 PM

I got this in an email as a tagline for the sender and thought it worth sharing (no attribution):

"Depression is not a sign of weakness.
It is a sign that you have been strong for too long."


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 08:03 PM

The worst part about anxiety episodes that lead to and/or accompany depression is that it is real...

The best part is that in doing a few things differently, it will pass...

Life is a series of ups 'n downs...

I suffered from anxiety and depression at the end of my social work career... Part was from burn out... Part from other stuff... Part unknown... I checked into a mental health facility... Yeah, kinda strange for a social worker who dealt with mental health clients... Something not all that fair...

No matter...

It took a number of twists and turns to find the correct treatment and, for me, that was swimming??? Weird... As a teenager I loved to just swim... Mile, 2 miles... Just swim and so I did...

It's a different puzzle for everyone but there is a solution set...

Anxiety disorders are beatable...

Anxiety disorders do pass...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 12:15 PM

It's a great topic tho, and the best place I think I can make an observation or two.

First, neither depression nor anxiety need be looked at merely from within the medical model, and no I am not about to recommend the Christian angle but a quite-secular one despite the initials in their URL: www.rc.org. In this model, time and listening attention are exchanged between people who come to know and trust one another well; it has clear guidelines; the person in the client role is always in charge of what is worked upon. It is basically the application of the natural process you can see any young person engage in-- when well-meaning adults do not try to stop them from using it.

Second, I have been really concerned to see the encouragement, here, of way-too-busy activity when it is likely that either anxiety or mania or hyperactivity are actually at work.

Third, a strong value at Mudcat always has been on taking the best and leaving the rest. It would be great to see THAT applied more often! :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,IRNS
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 11:18 AM

Dear Mudelf,
I don't know where you got your info from. THIS "IRNS" started the Depression and Anxiety thread. But I have NOT posted to the Nugent thread under any name. At any rate, I will not use this name again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 08:41 AM

I sympathize with your feelings about therapy. I am a painfully private person and found the process similar to picking at scabs. You have to take off the scab to release the infection underneath. It is an ugly nasty business but you come out of it infection free and capable of dealing with any further outbreaks on your own.
I found therapy very difficult but worth every minute of discomfort.

There are too many guests posting at Mudcat as "Guest,I'd Rather Not Say." The one who posted here just now should choose a new Guest name if you're not going to post as your registered self. Someone else has been using this guest name more consistently than you. And keep track of yourself - you DID post that last message, despite your protest to the contrary. --mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,I'd Rather Not Say
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 06:25 AM

First of all, I would like to say that the "IRNS" who has recently posted, is NOT me. She or he has hijacked my handle. (Some of this "guest" stuff, is over the line of ridiculous!)

So, an update for ME. Work has stabilized. I am taking what I think are pretty good meds. I haven't had formal therapy. But I have done some deep introspection and talking with caring friends, and I have made changes in my life that are positive. I believe in therapy as a process. But I am also afraid of it. I don't like revealing some of my deepest secrets or crying in front of a detached stranger.

I have made very big progress on dealing with extreme clutter. And I expect to be able to happily have company over in the near future without being horribly embarrassed.

And...I am dating! However, that has introduced some new issues. When in the relationship should I tell her that I live with depression? When should I tell her about being a clutterholic? Should I avoid someone who also has depression? Or can it work since we both understand and can lift each other up? Or should I look for someone who is more positive and appreciates me for me and can help lift me up without being brought down?

Thanks for all the caring and help from my Mudcat sisters and brothers. Aside from a few miscreants who hang out here as nasty trolls, this is a wonderful place.

IRNS


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Clontarf83
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:51 PM

Wish I had access to this kind of help in my twenties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:48 PM

There is definitely hope out there for you, IRNS. My niece has suffered similar things to yourself. After years of problems (including suicide attempts, and she's only twenty) she's got correct medication and professional support, and is feeling marvellous. She now has a steady boyfriend, and is on an even keel. She would have in the past said there was no hope, life wasn't worth it etc. So you too could be back on top soon. Please keep holding on to hope. You are in my thoughts. Eliza


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Amos
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:41 PM

Sure, lots of it!! Help yourself. You get to make tomorrow. Aroint to all despond, bansih and exile the voices of depression, and throw yourself into gear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,IRNS
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 03:30 PM

I need some hope. Does anyone have any to spare? Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 11:04 PM

Janie, I've recently discovered the writing of Jonah Lehrer who seems very good at making neuroscience research easy for a non-neuro scientist to understand. http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/index.php?page=2

I'm only just discovering this research through Jonah Lehrer so I would say I am not really very up on it. But it does make a great deal of sense such as explaining why it take several weeks for SSRI's to work when they enter your bloodstream immediately after you take them and should work sooner....the brain begins to build new neurons. I think that the practice of cognitive-behavioral techniques builds new neurons as well, don't you think?


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Janie
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 10:33 PM

Look for a pm, hg. You are more on top of the research than am I and I'd like to read more.

When starting any medication, if one experiences an abrupt change in mood, mental capacity or physiological phenomena that the medication is not intended to address, call your doctor, even if the change you experience is not on the list of side effects or adverse reactions that comes with the prescription. You may be the "one in a million" that did not turn up in the "rare" category of side effects and adverse reactions reported in pre or post release trials of the medication.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 08:30 PM

Perhaps pain meds or more likely chronic pain, suppress neurogenesis. The latest thinking on anti-depressants is that they allow the brain to create new neurons. The implication is that stress and other mitigating factors suppress neurogensis and lead to depression. Sapolsky argues against this but it is a very convincing bit of neuroscience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 09 - 06:53 PM

Nice to reread the good advice given in this old thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:01 AM

Dear IRNS,

I, too, have been there. I don't think that anyone who hasn't has any understanding of the emotional pain.

Delighted to hear that you are on the mend.

I was given ECT, and it worked. The meds I was on - I'm in the UK - just weren't doing the business.

Please don't think I am suggesting this for you - I am a lawter, not a medic.

But thinking of you, and empathising with you, and should you wish to PM me I'll be here.

I wish you Joy, Health, Love and Peace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Joe_F
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 09:04 PM

Deficient contact with reality is called mania.
Excessive contact with reality is called depression.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Stringsinger
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:22 PM

"Overcoming Depression" A cognitive therapy approach. by Mark Gilson,Arthur Freeman, M. Jane Yates, Sharon Morgillo Freeman
Publisher: Oxford University Press, USA
Pub. Date: April 2009
ISBN-13: 9780195300000 It's available through Barnes and Noble. It works!

Hot off the press!


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:22 PM

I always thought with pain meds there were a list of reactions. I never had any issue with them before. This one, depression and anxiety. Anyone taking pain meds watch for it. I at least had the sense to know something was wrong before it really caught me. It took a couple of weeks to really sneak up on me. Just watch if they give you any pain medication. They all have it on the label but who reads that stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:10 PM

My Gosh, doc changed some pain meds. Wow, the depression and Anxiety it caused was amazing. So unlike me, the loss of sleep, helpless feeling. A sadness that goes right to your bones. Amazing from a scientific side. One of the worst things I have ever experienced in my life and boy I sure had a number of bad things happen. Had a run in with a terrible nasty client and it put me in a tailspin where I would normally just dust it off knowing the personality and the source since he does it to everyone.   

Doc fixed it, like putting ice on a burn ... My heart goes out completely for people who suffer with this. Terrible is not the word I would use for it does not describe it fully.

Wow did that suck ...

Thank you for this thread, I thought it was just me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 01:56 AM

Donuel, why are you surprised?

Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Janie
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 01:12 AM

INRS,

Sorry to hear the dark days are back. Looking at the dates (January 06, January 08) is it possible that there is either a seasonal component to your depression, or possibly an anniversary reaction of some kind?

Holding you and 'New at this' in my thoughts.

Kat and Megan are describing the use of cognitive techniques and exercises that have proven useful to many people who deal with depression.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Janie
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 01:03 AM

Clinical depression (Or Major Depressive Depressive Disorder) simply means that you are experiencing a sufficient number of a list of signs and symptoms to add up to meeting technical diagnostic criteria. It says nothing about the origins of the clinical depression.   

There is a difference between being stressed and unhappy and being clinically depressed. However, stress and distress and the unhappiness involved can trigger a clinical depression. Once the clinical depression sets in, it can become very difficult to call upon the strengths and coping skills most people usually have that help us manage the rough times. It is like the depression holds us hostage. Things that never used to bother us, bother us a lot. Little problems begin to be perceived as big problems. Big problems become huge monolithic monsters that seem unsolvable or impossible to find a means or the inner strength with which to cope. The depression robs us of the energy we need to find solutions or to find ways of coping. Depression turns pain into misery. Burdens we have always managed to bear, become unbearable.   Encounter enough pain and sadness over so many things, events, people and circumstances over which we have no control, and eventually any of us can become overwhelmed and experience a clinical depression. R

New at this, you have experiences so much grief already. And now, the actual and anticipated slow loss of your wife as the person you have known. Always difficult, but even more so if it has been that relationship that has been the rock that has sustained the two of you through the years of coping with your daughter's problems. I'm glad you are going to see a psychiatrist to explore the idea of an antidepressant medication. And I am glad to hear you are working with a therapist.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Just because some may find it helpful, the more common signs and symptoms of clinical depression in adults include several of the following signs and symptoms, most of which occur everyday, or nearly everyday for a period of two weeks or longer. If you experience 4 or more of them you may want to consider talking with someone for further evaluation, recommendations or treatment.

1. Changes in sleep patterns.

    a.   Insomnia, which might include difficulty falling asleep, difficulty staying asleep and trouble falling back to sleep when you awake in the middle of the night, very early morning awakening, or some combination of the three.

    b. Some people experience hypersomnia, and will sleep 10, 12 or 14 hours if they can.

2. Appetite changes that result in rapid significant weight loss or weight gain in a short amount of time. i.e. losing 10 lbs. or more in a two month period without trying to diet.

3. Depressed mood. May be sad. Or may be simply 'blah.' Feeling numb or bored.

4. Increased irritability. Loss of interest in activities that normally you find interesting. Not enjoying or finding pleasure in activities you normally enjoy.

5. Feelings of hopelessness or helplessness. Decreased sense of self-worth. Irrational or excessive guilt.

6. Increased tearfulness, or increase feeling of wanting to cry.

7. Decreased concentration.

8. Increased or excessive rumination or worry about the past, current problems, the future, perceived slights, etc.

9. Loss of energy. Fatique. Decreased motivation. Not attending to activities of daily living to the degree that you usually do. (housekeeping, paying bills, showering, attending to your appearance.) Atypical procrastination. Taking care of 'business', but really having to push yourself to do so more than is typical for you.

10. Passive or active suicidal or homicidal thoughts, plan or intent. (Please tell some one, be it a friend, loved one, or a professional if you are having these kinds of thoughts.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 07:13 PM

I was surprised at the large number of TV and movie personalities who admitted having had clinical depression.
There was no one stereotype personality, Some had a core personality that was typically gregarious and some were typically morose,


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,New to this...
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 06:22 PM

I've always thought that there is a real, qualitative difference between clinical depression and feeling bad for a good reason.

My sister has dealt with bipolar disorder for her whole life; for years, she was diagnosed with "depression" and never had successful results from treatment until the diagnosis was modified to "bipolar," since which time she has been doing better thanks to more appropriate meds, etc. One of our aunts, long dead, suffered from mental illness, likely the same or a similar condition although not diagnosed as such back in the 1940s and 50s. She died of pneumonia in a state mental hospital shortly after undergoing electroshock therapy..

I'm providing this background to indicate that I have plenty of sympathy for unexplained bouts of depression, even though I can state with some confidence that I am not subject to that kind of trouble myself.

My daughter has been epileptic since childhood and now, at age thirty, has been an out-of-control opiate addict for more than ten years. (Pills, not needles ~ which has made the problem much less evident for quite a while.) She is also very likely to have inherited the family propensity for bipolar disorder and/or clinical depression, although by this time, it may be hard to separate her drug-induced problems from other aspects of her sorry condition.

Her life has become especially miserable over the past year; her no-good boyfriend and partner in addiction is in jail, and their two daughters, our only grandchildren, have been taken away by the state and placed with a foster family for permanent adoption.

On top of everything else, my dear wife is falling into a state of dementia at the relatively early age of 54. While her condition is organic and physical, not strictly psychological, and is probably inherited as well, it is hard to believe that the emotional trauma of losing our grandbabies did not contribute to her misery and hasten the onset of the terminal neurological condition that has gripped her.

She began seeing a therapist several years ago, mainly due to the problems and heartache involved in her relationship with our wayward daughter. Now that she can no longer drive, and also is losing her ability to speak clearly, I've been attending the therapy sessions with her and "her" therapist has become "our" therapist.

As you might imagine, I'm not feeling too good myself, either, these days. I have an appointment with a full-fledged psycholanalyst fairly soon, scheduled mainly as a way to have some kind of anti-depressant medication prescribed. (Our regular therapist is not qualifed to write scrips, she's just a BCSW.)

I don't deny that I'm miserable, and I certainly hope that medication will make it easier for me to get up in the morning, get to work, and to concentrate on work instead of frittering away my time websurfing (and, specifically, Mudcatting).

But I truly believe that my problem is NOT the same as the kind of irrational depression that I've seen others suffer; I'm miserable for a reason ~ several reasons in fact ~ that will not be going away anytime soon. Is there really any point, any constructive prospect, to achieving a "happier" state through medication when the underlying causes of my unhappiness continue to exist?


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 03:32 PM

Megan, good advice. When I was waiting for heart surgery and not able to do much, I'd call my girlfriend and we'd go over my day. She's say, "What did you do today? I'd say, "Nothing, really." Then she'd start asking questions and we'd both laugh because I'd start telling her the little tiny baby steps I'd taken that day...fed the dog, washed my hair all by myself, made a list, saw a robin...bunches of really simple things I didn't think were important enough to note. She talked me into writing them down, each day, and I saw that I really wasn't worthless and non-functioning, so I could let go of the guilt I was feeling over my family having to do so much for me.

IRNS, thanks for the update. May things improve for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: autolycus
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 02:49 PM

If you wish to join in an ongoing conversation among people struggling with depression, who function rather like a mutual support group, you could do worse than try http://talk.guardian.co.uk, then, in the left-hand column, click on The Haven, and click, in the resulting middle column, on Overcoming Depression. You can read what they've said without sining on, if I remember. (LOL, not 'sining', 'signing'.)


Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 02:45 PM

My dear perhaps I was luckier than most people when those feelings struck in that i could trace the chain of events which led to the deep anxiety. I was even luckier in that i had a doctor who was willing to work with me as i tried to knock bricks out of the wall.

I know what i did wont help everyone but if there is a chance i will share. I kept a book in which I set myself goals, to many people they may seem silly, things like not biting my nails for a week or getting up before 11 am and having a shower. But at a time when I felt worthless being able to write in my book that I had set a goal and achied it helped me see myself as a person.

The next thing i did was to activly look for something good and positive each day and write it down. Somedays those efforts were pretty weak "Saw a crocus this morning" but gradually I managed to retrain my mind to look for the up rather than the down.

Tiny steps sometimes like a waltz they went backwards as well as forwards but the ned result was moving on till one day the light at the end of the tunnel wasnt a train comming but beautiful sunshine.

All the best Dauvitts Meg


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 02:38 PM

Has your general condition improved?


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,IRNS
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 02:23 PM

I am taking my meds, using my mood lights, and trying to get a good night's sleep. But I still would rather not wake up tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 05:37 PM

Stay In The Game.

"Otherwise, what've ya got to talk about in the locker room?"


from Harold and Maude


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Once Famous
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 10:38 PM

Glad to hear it, IRNS. A good hot dog sandwich will do wonders, won't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Janie
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 08:27 PM

Really glad to hear it, IRNS!

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 07:10 PM

Good news. Happy New Year to you, IRNS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Flash Company
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 10:38 AM

I am pleased to see that 'I'd rather not say' is feeling the signs of recovery. Hope that a New Year gives you a new start.
I have been keeping out of this one, because it was painfully close to home. A dear friend and neighbour has just been through 10 months of hell because a medic prescribed steroids for a Rheumatic condition without checking her medical history. It put her back 15 years!
Happily, her husband tells us this am that the signs of recovery are showing there too. Maybe a New Year is a good thing.
I have nothing but admiration for all the people who have offered such positive support on this site, Bless you all!

FC


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,I'd Rather Not Say
Date: 01 Jan 06 - 07:03 AM

Well, the New Year is starting off well enough. I continue to make progress. Without the moral support of members of the Mudcat, it might have been quite a different outcome. Thanks again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 10:28 PM

I just finished reading an article in an astrology magazine on Chiron, the Greek centaur demi-god who is associated with healing, with skills in battle, as well as with philosphopy & music.

That article reminded me of this thread's discussion and I'd like to share some excerpts from it with those who may be interested.

"Most notably Chiron related to woundedness. Known as a great healer, he mentored Aesculapius, the semi-mythical father of Greek medicine, and his name comes down to us through chiropractice, chiropody, chirography, chiromancy, and chirugie {the French word for surgery}. But in his healing, we are told, he used herbs and wholistic methids, and it seems that Chiron, wounded in the foot as he was and therefore walking with a limp, symbolizes, among other factors, a search for the balance that heals. Thus his connection with the wounded healer archetype. Further, through his connection to a madala of skills that one offers to the world, Chiron suggests that we heal ourselves when we make use of the mandala of abilities within us, when we engage in a search for inner balance. But the process begins when we acknowledge our wounds...

The years around Chiron's discovery saw an increased emphasis not on disease per se, but on what we might call the environmental and wholistic issues related to disease. We see this environmental quality when we realize that disease often arises from environmental factors-not necessarily germs or microbes, naturally occurring or otherwise, but the larger structure of a person's life, a structure that promotes or generates the imbalance that leads to disease. We see the wholistic nature when we realize that the deepest cures come not from simply getting rid of the symptomology, but from looking into and making changes in the larger pattern.

Thus, Chiron's cures can result from our attempts to re-balance ourselves, to bring our lives into harmony, coordinating body and mind, livelihood, and creative enterprise, work and play, participation, and solitude. Chiropractors can accomplish the first, we can accomplish the second if we analyze our lives closely. And of course, many chiropractors will tell us that misalignment of the spine often results from tension, from habitual ways of holding ourselves, ways that arise, in turn, from larger life-situations, from ways of approaching these situations, ways of holding ourselves within them. Unconscious body-armoring, it seems...

We can heal by healing the structure...We may fear {Saturn} getting sick {Chiron} or we can heal ourselves {Chiron} by looking directly at fear {Saturn} and having the insight {Uranus} to realise that we shouldn't take fear as solid: that a person fears something doesn't mean that there's something out there to fear. We can see that fear constitutes an approach {a limiting one} not an accurate description of the world"...

-snip-

Source: Tim Lyons "Chiron, Saturn, and Your Birth Planets" {an article that is part of a monthly series called "Astrology for The New Age" in HOROSCOPE GUIDE, February 2006, pp 88-92

Note: I haven't had any experience with chiropractors and am not promoting the benefit of chiropractice.

I am sharing these excerpts because it seems to me that it is important to consider the reasons for a person's [psychological]
dis-ease and not just treat the physical or emotional symptoms of that dis-ease...

Sorry, I was unable to find an online version of this article or this magazine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: LilyFestre
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 11:11 AM

Azizi,

I really like that song...and yes indeed, it IS a country song. I like VanZant to begin with and these lyrics, well...how can you not like them? They paint a picture for me...especially about Granddad and Granny. One of my favorite lines...If you want to hear God laugh, tell him your plans. Love it. Oh heck..I love the whole damn song. :)

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 10:41 AM

Me liking cowboy lyrics?!?! Ain't that country and western music??!!!

Thanks "Mudcat" and all you 'Catters too.
Lord knows, my music tastes have expanded.
And it's all because of you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 10:33 AM

I woke up this morning with this song in my head:

"If I can help somebody
as I travel along
If I can cheer somebody
with a word or song
If I can help somebody
as I travel along
than my living will not be in vain.
Oh my living will not be in vain.
Yes my living will not be in vain
If I can help somebody as I travel along
than my living will not be in vain."

-snip-

Since I was curious about whether I had remembered the song correctly, I decided to see whether I could find the song on the Internet. So I went to google and put in the key words "If I can help somebody." But the first link I came up with was a whole 'nother song. At first I was disappointed, but I decided to read the lyrics to the song that was staring me in the face.
And those lyrics made me smile. I figure that maybe the Universe knew that at this point in time I needed that smile more than I needed the earnestness of the first song.

Maybe these words will make some of you smile too.


"Artist/Band: Van Zant
Lyrics for Song: Help Somebody
Lyrics for Album: Get Right With the Man

Well grandaddy was a hillbilly scholar,
blue collar of a man...
He came from the school of
"you don't need nothin' if you can't make it with your own two hands"
He was backwoods, backwards, used words like:
no sir, yes ma'am, by god, I'll be darned, hell yeah I'm American..
and all the years he walked this earth
I swear all he did was work.
He said the devil dreams on an idle horse
so you listen to me squirt..

Don't get too high on a bottle,
and get right with a man.
Fight your fights, find your grace
and all the things you two can't change, and help somebody if you can

Now Granny said sonny
stick to your gun if you believe in something
no matter what
cause it's better to be hated for who you are
Than loved for someone you're not.
She was 5 feet of concrete
New York born and raised on a slick city street.
She'll stare you down, stand her ground,
still kickin' and screamin' at 93
I remember how frail she looked
in that hospital bed
taking her last few breaths of life
and smiling as she said

Don't get too high on a bottle,
just a little syrup now and then,
fight your fights,
find your grace,
and all the things you two can't change
and help somebody if you can,
and get right with a man

I never let a cowboy make the coffee
yeah thats what Granny always said to my Grandad
and he'd say never tell a joke
that ain't that funny more than once
and if you wanna hear God laugh,
tell Him your plans

Don't get too high on a bottle,
get right with a man, son.
fight your fights,
find your grace,
and all the things you two can't change
and help somebody if you can
and get right with a man

and get right with a man

[Thanks to imarulethaworld@sbcglobal.net for lyrics]"

Source: http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/van-zant/help-somebody-15632.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: saulgoldie
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 08:42 AM

Focus, people. This thread is about the troubles of IRNS. There are other threads for gay-bashing and anti-circumcision arguments.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 06:43 AM

Traditional famly values like mutilating babies with the Bris.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 08:32 PM

What's the difference, Robo?

If it isn't some fags getting bent out of shape for what I say or think, it will be some one else for what they say or think.

If people want to be gay, they can go fuck each other, that's fine. Gays with attitude who flaunt their dementia life style to upset mainstream society and traditional family values are fair game in my book.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: GUEST,I'd rather not say
Date: 11 Dec 05 - 08:32 AM

Hi folks. Not to keep the spotlight on myself, but so many have been so caring, I thought I'd give an update. I am doing much better.

The meds have taken the harsh edge off of the anxiety, and I can think more clearly and with more balance. I still feel apprehensive about taking them, and also that there is something wrong with me that I need to do so. But I am not dwelling on these notions.

As I said, doing well, onward and upward. Now to take back control of my life. Thanks again for all the warm caring. Mudcat is a GREAT collection of people!


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 06:55 PM

IRNS: Great to hear from and about you. I posted as a guest somewhere above--depression is a cast iron sonuvabitch, and I really hope you stay with the 'program', and please post when you have some down times. They will happen despite meds and therapy, and sometimes just knowing that people care can make a world of difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 06:51 PM

Martin Gibson, I hope that was some lying Guest utilizing your name in order to muddy the waters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:28 AM

IRNS. Good news. Wishing you well.

Speaking as a qualified therapist, I'd like to say you can't figure other people out because you can't be them or be inside them. You can respond honestly, say what you notice, and if they're not interested, then that's it.

It's quite hard enough trying to figure oneself out.

Much of any and every human is beyond understanding anyway. And if you decide that the other isn't listening ....... True listening is pretty hard to do, and anyway, plenty of people find being truly heard hard to take; they can become uncomfortable.

So I didn't offer much to IRNS beyond pointing them towards professional help because I would want direct contact with the person,which is not obtainable via a screen.

However, reaching out, as IRNS did, was, rather than a pathetic thing to do, actually a brave thing to have done. Would that more were that brave; it's certainly more courageous than gun-toting. The courage shows up in the relative rarity of people doing so in society(especially here in stiff-upper-lip UK).

Going to a professional is also seen as selfish, which is odd in a society that encourages making money, owning property, becoming famous. The fact is that , for each of us, there is only one person who can live our life.

I'm personally not to keen on taking stuff, if only because you are thereby avoiding getting to the roots of whatever is going on, and stuff can have undesirable side-effects. There are alternatives, like exercise, as was said, and eating better ("You ARE what you eat"not yet sourced) See, for example Nutritional Medicine by Dr. Davies and Dr.Stewart. And of course therapy or counselling.


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