Obit: Lennon 25 years

Subject: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: rhyzla
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 06:50 AM

I'm feeling nostalgic today about what might have been if Mark Chapman had been a crap shot!

Anyone else got any 25 year old memories about John's death.

Barry

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:08 AM

My mother in tears and saying "I suppose some s---t just had to do it". It's so hard to believe it's a quarter of a century ago now.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Hopfolk
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:15 AM

Not really believing why someone would be motivated to kill a civilian performer. (Well, I was only 12)

CamoJohn

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:37 AM

It was one of those moments, for which you can recall exactly when and where you were, when you heard the news. I recall getting in early for a shift on the Chesterfield buses.
A driver shouted, "Have you heard the news about John Lennon?"
"No. What's he been up to now?" (Expecting another daft stunt).
"He's been shot."
"But he's all right, isn't he?"
"No. He's dead."
I was not John Lennon's greatest fan. The thought that there was going to be nothing new from that unique voice did something to me though, even though his best work was a decade in the past. I was stunned for days.
For me, the saddest part of it all was the unrealised John Lennon as a human being. He seemed to have put most of his past behind him and had a quiet, purposeful life with his wife and young son. He seemed to be happier than at any time he had been in the past. I would have wished him and his family a few more years of that.
John Lennon opposed the death penalty. It would also surprise me if he supported the effective lingering death of his killer. If Mark David Chapman is safe for release, the most appropriate response for society would be to forgive him (as Yoko Ono has) and show him mercy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: JennyO
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:40 AM

I was one of the screaming teenagers at a Beatles concert in 1963. They came on after a series of supporting acts, and sang 10 very quick songs. You couldn't really hear them for the screaming, but the important thing to me was that I was there. I still remember the tartan tickets. Wish I still had them!

The day I heard John Lennon was shot, I remember standing at the sink where I was living in Gladesville and crying into the vegetable peelings. I just couldn't believe it! All the rest of the day the radio station played Lennon songs and I kept thinking about what had been lost. The one which really reduced me to tears, and still does, was "Across the Universe" - especially that line "Nothing's gonna change my world..."

In about 1990, when my daughter was 14, she was actually quite jealous that I had been involved in the Beatlemania period. She had the feeling she had missed something big, and in my opinion, she had. She asked me did I know at the time that history was being made, and yes, I did. She was a big fan of Julian Lennon, his son, and she also used to fantasize and write stories about going back in time and stopping Mark Chapman from shooting John. It was quite an obsession for her at one stage.

She didn't mention it today, but then, she had a couple of other things on her mind.

Jenny

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 10:07 AM

hope he finds an apartment just down the block from you, alanabit

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 10:39 AM

Interesting man, always felt an empathy with him as we shared the same birthday.
Just listening to his first wife Cynthia on the radio talking about how he flaunted Yoko under her nose while they were still married, and thought 'what a shit'
Funny how shocking it is when you discover your heroes had feet of clay.
Giok

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:41 PM

I remember howling like a baby at school, saying there were some shitty bastards in the world, and my teacher agreeing with me!

LTS

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:46 PM

The real down side is that of those 6 bullets, not one of them had the decency to kill Yoko instead!

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:26 PM

Yes that's sad but true CH, she lived off him when he was alive, she's still doing now, and he's been dead for 25 years.
G

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:40 PM

Anonymous guest: I don't care if he does. I'd rather have him here than an anonymous creep like you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Pooby
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 03:27 PM

Here's a weird first-person scene from the whole event. (It comes back to me every year at this time.)

That night, my brother and I went to a local radio station's annual Christmas concert, held at Lincoln Center and headlined by Daryl Hall and John Oates (as I recall -- might've been the Marshall Tucker Band). After the concert ended, we walked back down Columbus Avenue to my office on West 56th Street, where I'd parked my car. As we passed Roosevelt Hospital, on 58th Street, we saw a helluva commotion outside the emergency room entrance -- cop cars and ambulances with their lights flashing, people running back and forth, some folks just sitting around with their heads buried in their hands.

Granted this was New York City in the 80's, and normally I would've been more ho-hum about the whole scene and waited to read about it in the next day's newspaper. But this time, for some reason, I asked someone nearby what was going on. His answer was the last thing I ever expected to hear: "John Lennon was wheeled in. Somebody shot him. He's dead."

The half-hour drive home seemed like an eternity. And I don't know how many times I must've said during the ride, "I can't fookin' believe it!"

One of those "where were you when...?" moments.

Pete

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 04:02 PM

"Yes that's sad but true CH, she lived off him when he was alive, she's still doing now, and he's been dead for 25 years."
Is that really correct?
When Lennon died, he was effectively a part time musician and house husband. It was Yoko who went to work, managing their real estate interests. I saw it reported that the Lennons' fortune was actually in real estate rather than royalties and publishing. I am in no position to question or confirm the accuracy of that statement.
At any rate, it does appear that Lennon's fortune had a lot to do with the very astute business acumen of his wife. It was certainly her, who saw off Alan Klein in a short interview, with a fraction of the sum, which he had been trying to wrangle from John Lennon.
I suspect that as in the case of Madonna, the "artist" Yoko Ono's real talent was as a businesswoman. It does not necessarily make me a fan of hers, but it does look a bit unfair to accuse her of living off Lennon. To me, the reverse looks more likely.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 04:15 PM

Lennon's royalties alone would have kept him in style for the rest of his life. She was a "Performance artist" who came from a good family, had been trained as a classical singer, and had made a film about bottoms, she was married to an English film-maker whose name I forget, when she met Lennon, and was desperate for publicity, so she dropped her then husband for Lennon.
Giok

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 04:21 PM

He loved her.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 04:48 PM

No doubt he did, but did she love him?
G

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Kaleea
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:29 PM

I was stunned when I heard it on the radio. I recall that a tv news program that night played "A Day In The Life Of" at the end of the broadcast.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:31 PM

I didn't like her and I still don't. Her motives were and are suspect, as is her alleged artistry, but John loved her to bits and his love for her was a big part of who he was.

If Chapman had killed her intead I don't like to think what that would have done to John.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Skivee
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 11:36 PM

RE: comments about Yoko
Wow, folks.
Given that she is (IMHO) a low talent hack, that she has written some of the worst poems ever committed to paper, and that she seems to have an Andy Warhol/ Madonna air of self-importance about her persona...But these comments amounting to "Chapman should have shot her, instead" are unworthy of us. (again, IMHO)

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 01:30 PM

What do you thing of the theory that Chapman was aiming for Yoko, and John stepped between?

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 01:34 PM

Is this part of the SHITE thread?

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:07 PM

Let him rest in Peace and his past live on in peace.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:26 PM

Mike I feel absolutely sure that John Lennon would laugh at this thread, he always seemed to find it funny when people took him seriously when he was alive.
Giok

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 04:10 PM

I'm no Yoko Ono fan, but these vicious comments that she should have died instead are disgraceful. Grow up you spiteful babies!

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Hrothgar
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 02:28 AM

Did Lennon still actually own the rights to enough of his songs to live off the royalties?

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: GUEST,Sidewinder.
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 03:20 AM

I remember him saying to me "there's nothing you can do that can't be done. Nothing you can sing that can't be sung. Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game. It's easy".And for several years that was enough. However, he later said to me "love is the answer, and you know that for sure. Love is the flower you gotta let it, you gotta let it grow."He spoke to me often and made sense, as did my undying admiration for him. And you know what? He still speaks to me today and makes each day of my life just that little bit better.

Remember Love.

Sidewinder.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 04:55 AM

As far as royalties are concerned, while Lennon, and the others in the group may no longer own the publishing rights, they still receive writers royalties, which are about 50%.
When you think of how many times a day a Beatles track or a cover is played round the world in any 24 hour period, this must amount to a tidy sum.
This according to Snopes is still being paid into John's estate. Ironically this last week on the anniversary of his killing was probably a nice little earner, as lots of their tracks were replayed.

Giok


Details here

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Terry K
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 05:12 AM

I did a double-take just yesterday in a pub in Kensington - there at the bar was John Lennon, dead ringer, with his mate. Overheard the scouse accent so got chatting and it turned out they were "Lennon" and "McCartney" of the Backbeat Beatles who were on at the Shepherds Bush Empire with Steve Harley. Really nice lads. I don't know why I was so tickled pink by the happenstance, but I was.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 10:30 PM

To GUEST,Ooh-Aah2:

I'm not meaning to bash Yoko, just recalling the theory that Chapman was after Yoko, as he saw her as the one who broke up the Beatles.

All we are saying, is give peace a chance. What a wonderful idea!

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Brakn
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 11:37 AM

I think this programme tonight on BBC4 will have some info on Lennon.

Stuart Sutcliffe: The Lost Beatle

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: rhyzla
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 10:58 AM

"I remember him saying to me "there's nothing you can do that can't be done. Nothing you can sing that can't be sung. Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game. It's easy".And for several years that was enough. However, he later said to me "love is the answer, and you know that for sure. Love is the flower you gotta let it, you gotta let it grow."He spoke to me often and made sense, as did my undying admiration for him. And you know what? He still speaks to me today and makes each day of my life just that little bit better." from sidewinder above!

Does it for me, enough said?

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 12:37 PM

After all of these years, I think I'm able to forgive Yoko for those warbling wails and the irritating songs she wrote. I bought Double Fantasy just before John was killed, and was a little surprised and disappointed that every other song was a Yoko tune.And I suppose that, like a lot of others, I'm still a little mad that Yoko "broke up the band".
But John loved her and she loved John, and with McCartney's help, she was able to recover from Michael Jackson the catalogue of Northern Songs, saving John's songs from being used to sell everything from Buicks to breakfast cereal.
I went to Spain last May and visited John's lodgings at the Dolfin Verte guesthouse on Almeria Beach where he wrote Strawberry Fields while filming How I Won the War. I was excited to have my picture taken there and stand there trying to recapture some feeling of that ancient era. 25 years after his death, I guess I'm still a big fan.

Subject: RE: Obit: Lennon 25 years
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 01:53 PM

I was 14, I remember I was lying in bed lightly sleeping, the stereo on but the volume low. I woke up to Howard Cosell's voice reporting the shooting. I didn't want to believe it, I thought it was a bad dream until the next day. I don't want to believe it now.

My daughter took an interest in the Beatles early on. She has a cap like John had and with her hair cut short and her pair of rose tinted circle glasses she could pass for him. Her tribute I guess. Her friends think she's a strange little girl, I love her all the more for it.