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BS: Join the war on Christmas

Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 12:03 PM
number 6 08 Dec 05 - 12:07 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 12:16 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 08 Dec 05 - 12:18 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 12:25 PM
Pseudolus 08 Dec 05 - 12:28 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 12:38 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 12:42 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 08 Dec 05 - 12:42 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM
mg 08 Dec 05 - 12:51 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 12:59 PM
ranger1 08 Dec 05 - 01:06 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 01:07 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 08 Dec 05 - 01:15 PM
ranger1 08 Dec 05 - 01:20 PM
TheBigPinkLad 08 Dec 05 - 01:28 PM
MMario 08 Dec 05 - 01:28 PM
Pseudolus 08 Dec 05 - 01:38 PM
wysiwyg 08 Dec 05 - 01:39 PM
number 6 08 Dec 05 - 01:44 PM
jacqui.c 08 Dec 05 - 01:52 PM
Liz the Squeak 08 Dec 05 - 01:54 PM
TheBigPinkLad 08 Dec 05 - 02:01 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 02:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Dec 05 - 02:18 PM
wysiwyg 08 Dec 05 - 02:49 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 08 Dec 05 - 02:54 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 02:58 PM
wysiwyg 08 Dec 05 - 03:23 PM
George Papavgeris 08 Dec 05 - 04:11 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 05:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Dec 05 - 05:30 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 07:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Dec 05 - 08:02 PM
Donuel 08 Dec 05 - 08:30 PM
SINSULL 08 Dec 05 - 08:44 PM
Once Famous 08 Dec 05 - 09:00 PM
appydaze 08 Dec 05 - 09:17 PM
number 6 08 Dec 05 - 09:54 PM
wysiwyg 08 Dec 05 - 10:30 PM
katlaughing 08 Dec 05 - 10:58 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 Dec 05 - 11:05 PM
Little Hawk 08 Dec 05 - 11:35 PM
Little Hawk 08 Dec 05 - 11:36 PM
Little Hawk 08 Dec 05 - 11:47 PM
open mike 09 Dec 05 - 02:10 AM
Paco Rabanne 09 Dec 05 - 03:55 AM
DougR 09 Dec 05 - 01:25 PM
leftydee 09 Dec 05 - 03:43 PM
Metchosin 09 Dec 05 - 04:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Dec 05 - 05:00 PM
LilyFestre 09 Dec 05 - 05:11 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 09 Dec 05 - 05:17 PM
Peace 09 Dec 05 - 05:46 PM
LilyFestre 09 Dec 05 - 06:20 PM
GUEST,Ben Stein 09 Dec 05 - 06:33 PM
LilyFestre 09 Dec 05 - 06:37 PM
GUEST 10 Dec 05 - 07:43 AM
GUEST 10 Dec 05 - 07:53 AM
tarheel 10 Dec 05 - 08:37 AM
bobad 10 Dec 05 - 11:29 AM
Donuel 10 Dec 05 - 01:22 PM
GUEST 10 Dec 05 - 01:39 PM
Donuel 10 Dec 05 - 01:44 PM
Wolfgang 13 Dec 05 - 09:32 AM
GUEST 13 Dec 05 - 11:12 AM
Greg F. 13 Dec 05 - 05:12 PM
robomatic 13 Dec 05 - 06:14 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 13 Dec 05 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,Ad Nauseum 13 Dec 05 - 07:54 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 13 Dec 05 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,Ad Nauseum 13 Dec 05 - 08:14 PM
Donuel 14 Dec 05 - 12:39 AM
GUEST 14 Dec 05 - 08:15 AM
Donuel 14 Dec 05 - 09:31 AM
Pseudolus 14 Dec 05 - 10:29 AM
Donuel 14 Dec 05 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,$2.00 Bracelets 14 Dec 05 - 04:11 PM
Donuel 14 Dec 05 - 09:00 PM
kendall 15 Dec 05 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,have faith 15 Dec 05 - 07:32 PM
frogprince 15 Dec 05 - 08:17 PM
bobad 16 Dec 05 - 09:13 AM
Donuel 16 Dec 05 - 09:41 AM
bobad 16 Dec 05 - 10:32 AM
Pseudolus 16 Dec 05 - 10:36 AM
Donuel 16 Dec 05 - 11:36 AM
Donuel 16 Dec 05 - 01:13 PM
Donuel 16 Dec 05 - 04:25 PM
Donuel 16 Dec 05 - 06:00 PM
Dead Horse 17 Dec 05 - 07:20 AM
Donuel 17 Dec 05 - 08:00 AM
GUEST,vickey Da Bolt 17 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,Kelly 17 Dec 05 - 11:16 PM
Donuel 18 Dec 05 - 12:08 AM
GUEST,saulgoldie 18 Dec 05 - 06:11 AM
GUEST,saulgoldie 18 Dec 05 - 06:12 AM
GUEST,saulgoldie 18 Dec 05 - 06:13 AM
GUEST,saulgoldie 18 Dec 05 - 06:14 AM
Donuel 18 Dec 05 - 09:34 AM
frogprince 18 Dec 05 - 11:15 AM
Bill D 21 Dec 05 - 12:35 PM
Big Mick 21 Dec 05 - 12:43 PM
Bill D 21 Dec 05 - 01:59 PM
Big Mick 21 Dec 05 - 02:30 PM
GUEST 21 Dec 05 - 03:15 PM
PoppaGator 22 Dec 05 - 12:52 PM
Donuel 22 Dec 05 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Let everyone know deocortive Chritmas light 11 Dec 06 - 12:17 AM
Cluin 11 Dec 06 - 01:45 AM
Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland 11 Dec 06 - 05:15 AM

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Subject: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:03 PM

It was the Puritans who banned the celebration of Christmas as a holiday for being vulger and sacreligious.

Now our current day fundamentalists are crying foul that department stores are not using the word Christmas in all their advertising this month. They are calling it a war on Christmas.

So fire up your credit card, take aim and Christmas shop till you drop at stores that advertise Christmas, unless you are some kind of godless creep who doesn't know the meaning of Christmas.

Visit, justsaymerrychristmas.com and you too can BUY the war on Christmas braclet for only $2 and declare war on everyone you meet.

Help win the war on Christmas buy the braclet, join a navity scene on the court house steps, boycot stores who say "happy holidays".

Win this one for the gipper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: number 6
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:07 PM

Are you ok Donuel ??

I know Yule can be hectic and it certainly can test the best of all of us ... but it seems to have sparked some anxiety out on ya.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:16 PM

No one is yet saying it out loud but I bet it is the Jews and their ACLU who are behind this ruthless attack on Christmas. This is a season that will live in infamy!

No more X mas, thats just turning our holy day into a reference to porn.

No more happy holidays... its CHRIST MASS you moran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Support our shoppers who shop at good ol fashioned Christian values stores.

Never leave a shopper behind. Sempre Fidelio!

We are targeting: Target, Macys, Pennys and any other store that does not make this an EXCLUSIVELY CHRISTIAN holiday.

With a song in your heart lets march on to war!!!

Onward Christian shoppers
please do not delay
There is a war on Christmas
by rag heads, Jews and gays.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:18 PM

Taek a deep breath


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:25 PM

Show our troops overseas that we are winning the war on Christmas over here even if if the breaks are beating our boys over there.

Thank the lord that our beloved Savior and President GWB used the word Christmas in his Christmas card.

Praise the lord and fight for Merry Christmas on every street corner, on every beach, in every FOX hole.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Pseudolus
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:28 PM

Here is where some of my fellow Christians get themselves in trouble by painting themselves into a corner they can't get out of, and frankly it makes the rest of us look bad. Christmas, to me as I see it as a Christian, is NOT about the stores and the shopping and the mounds of gifts under the tree. It's about celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. End of story. Do I buy my friends and family gifts? Yes I do. Do I receive gifts from friends and family? Yes I do. But what happens when all of that is not part of my Christmas season? Several years ago it was. We lost my ex-wife's mother to a heart attack just days before Christmas. On Christmas Eve my two daughters opened gifts already purchased and wrapped from their grandmother. It was a lesson learned. They would have given up Christmas gifts for the rest of their lives to have their Grandmother back for just one more Christmas Eve celebration. We lost my dad the very next year...another lesson learned. the next year we saw the birth of our twins. A better year no doubt. Christmas is about a baby, and when there is a baby, usually there is a family, and where there is a family, there can be an awesome Christmas celebration. It's not about the gifts so why do we care if the store says Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas? WE know what WE are celebrating. We don't need a store to lead the celebration.

I should say that I don't pretend to speak for all Christians. However, I would bet that if you have your family, your friends and your faith, it would be difficult to have a bad Christmas season regardless of how many gifts are around or where they came from.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:38 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/ear12.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:42 PM

http://www.justsaymerrychristmas.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:42 PM

Amen, Frank. It's as foolish to judge all Christians by a small part of the radical right as it is to judge all poodles by their silly haircuts.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM

Aw jeez, comon you guys, there's a war on Christmas.
How would it look if we had a war and nobody came?


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: mg
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:51 PM

what a weak and mindless people we have become if we begrudge people a holiday that is important to so many. there are all sorts of holidays i know nothing about but i certainly wouldn't stand in the way of people celebrating them. if i should move to another country, i would respect their traditional holidays. get a grip. there are all sorts of wretched things going on in the world and here people are trying to get rid of something nice. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 12:59 PM

yeah right... thats the spirit.

Bring it on


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: ranger1
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:06 PM

Happy Holidays, everyone!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:07 PM

BLASPHEMER !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:15 PM

Seasons greetings! Merry X-Mas!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: ranger1
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:20 PM

Maybe I ought to wish folks a Merry Hanmasza?


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:28 PM

if i should move to another country, i would respect their traditional holidays.

Let's hear from the Aboriginal Americans on that one ...and perhaps in this post-Christian era other people are simply claiming back what was always there and always theirs.

Merry Crispness!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: MMario
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:28 PM

now -*that* I consider "blasphemy* (the rolling of all the winter holidays into one generic mass)

I don't begrudge anyone ANY of the winter holidays - I celebrate Christmas, I have friends that celebrate one or more other holidays - My Christmas is for me primarily a religious holiday, and I wish people Merry Christmas. I also wish them a Happy Hanakkuh (which I can't spell) or good Yule, or whatever. I accept their Yule or Hannakuh wishes in the same spirit I give Merry Christmas greetings. But they are seperate holidays for seperate groups of people - even if some people for whatever reason celebrate more then one of them.

But I find it tragic that at a performance the other day the guy claimed to be "unstumpable" when it came to christmas songs - and the kids in the audience didn't KNOW that two of the songs they proposed weren't christmas songs at all, but one a traditional Hannakuh song and the other a recent 'Kwaanza Karol' (no kidding - several sites I've visited spell "carol" as "karol" when referring to Kwaanza. bleech!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Pseudolus
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:38 PM

We're in a post-Christian era? Didn't realize it had come and gone!

Merry Christmas!
Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:39 PM

Donuel, I can't tell what you are trying to do with this one.

TBPL, if people want to take back what they feel is theirs, mightn't it be a good idea to use the original name and not call it "Christ" mas?

Happy Whatever. Happy ANY day, for that matter. Would I wish someone an ill day just because I celebrate something differently than they do?

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: number 6
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:44 PM

Good Will and Peace to All !!!

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:52 PM

Happy whatever to you all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 01:54 PM

Merry Hogswatch!

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:01 PM

TBPL, if people want to take back what they feel is theirs, mightn't it be a good idea to use the original name and not call it "Christ" mas?


A rose by any other name ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:16 PM

Sue, of all the Nirvana.
You really take the cake.
Its an attack on Ha nuke ca
for holy Christ's sake.


Of course I am running with the CNN headlines today regarding the War on Christmas.
It just seemed funny to me how easy it is to make another Christian holy war at the drop of a hat, even if it is only a tempest in a manger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:18 PM

You Americans do seem to relish thing each other to bits over this sort of thing...


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:49 PM

Uh, Don, didn't I read that there's a Jewish organization supporting the Christians on this one?

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:54 PM

Nothing wrong with calling Christmas Christmas. Beats, generic Holliday spending Spree any day. This is another non-issue. This thread is sure to hit 100 postings...

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:58 PM

Sue, it just happened to rhyme, but you have a point.
Just where do the Jews for Jesus (aka evangelical Jews) stand on this one?

Which side are you on, tell me which side are you on


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 03:23 PM

No, I don't think it was a Jews for Jesus group; it had a specific name-- go look it up yourself. I don't speak for them.

And hey, a gratuitous attack just because it rhymes-- that's not the best I've seen from you.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 04:11 PM

I'm still looking for my Easter Egg...


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 05:12 PM

Sue, you're representative
of lovers of fruit cakes.
yet you're more sensitive
than lambs of mercy sakes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 05:30 PM

I suppose Americans aren't meant to say "Happy birthday" to anyone, in case someone thinks it might offend all the people who have their birthday on some other day...


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 07:04 PM

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director

TO: All Employees

DATE: 1 October 2005

RE: Christmas Party

I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take
place on December 23, starting at noon, in the private function room
at the Grill House.

There will be a cash bar and plenty of drinks! We'll have a small
band playing traditional carols ........ feel free to sing along!

And don't be surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus!

A Christmas tree will be lit at 1.00pm.

Exchange of gifts among employees can be done at that time; however,
no gift should be over $10 to make the giving of gifts easy for
everyone's pockets.

This gathering is only for employees! Our CEO will make a special
announcement at that time!

Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Patty

*************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director

TO: All Employees

DATE: 2 October 2005

RE: Holiday Party

In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees.

We recognize that Chanukah is an important holiday, which often
coincides with Christmas, though unfortunately not this year.
However, from now on we're calling it our "Holiday Party". The same
policy applies to any other employees who are not Christians or those
still celebrating Reconciliation Day.

There will be no Christmas tree present, No Christmas carols sung. We
will have other types of music for your enjoyment.

Happy now?

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

Patty

***************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director

TO: All Employees

DATE: 3 October 2005

RE: Holiday Party

Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous
requesting a non-drinking table................. you didn't sign your
name.

I'm happy to accommodate this request but if I put a sign on a table
that reads, "AA Only", you wouldn't be anonymous anymore. How am I
supposed to handle this?
Forget about the gifts exchange, no gifts exchange are allowed since
the union members feel that $10 is too much money and executives
believe $10 is a little chintzy.

NO GIFTS EXCHANGE WILL BE ALLOWED.

Patty

****************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director

TO: All Employees

DATE: 4 October 2005
RE: Holiday Party

What a diverse group we are! I had no idea that December 20 begins
the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating and drinking
during daylight hours. There goes the party!

Seriously we can appreciate how a luncheon at this time of the year
does not accommodate our Muslim employees' beliefs. Perhaps the Grill
House can hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party -
or else package everything for you to take it home in little foil
doggy baggy. Will that work?

Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Weight Watchers to sit
farthest from the dessert buffet and pregnant women will get the
table closest to the restrooms.

Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit
with Gay men, each will have their own table. Yes, there will be a
flower arrangement for the Gay men's table.

To the person asking permission to cross-dress, no cross-dressing
allowed though.

We will have booster seats for short people. Low-fat food will be
available for those on a diet. We cannot control the salt used in the
food, we suggest for those people with high blood pressure to taste
first.

There will be fresh fruits for Diabetics, the restaurant cannot
supply "No sugar" desserts. Sorry!

Did I miss anything?!?!?

Patty

***************

FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director

TO: All ****ing Employees

DATE: 5 October 2005

RE: The ****ing Holiday Party

Vegetarian *****s I've had it with you people!!! We're going to keep
this at the Grill House whether you like it or not, so you can sit
quietly at the table furthest from the "grill of death", as you so
quaintly put it, and you'll get your ****ing salad bar, including
organic tomatoes. But you know, tomatoes have feelings too. They
scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them
scream right NOW!

I hope you all have a rotten holiday! Drive drunk and die.

The Bitch from HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**********************

FROM: Joan Bishop, Acting Human Resources Director
TO: All Employees

DATE: 6 October 2005

RE: Patty Lewis and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy
recovery and I'll continue to forward your cards to her

In the meantime, Management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and
give
everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.

Happy Holidays!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:02 PM

We had an Indian family move in a few doors away a couple of month back. We thought maybe we'd send them a Divali Card. Then we found out they were Catholics, so we didn't. Divali came around, and it turned out they celebrate it anyway, alongside Christian feasts.

That's how it's supposed to be. Nobody thinks that celebrating Saint Patrick's Day is an insult to people who aren't Irish, do they, or that only Irish people should be allowed to celebrate it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:30 PM

I wouldn't call this thread anti Christmas.
It was just a sarcastic parody of someone defending the absurd proposition of a war on Christmas.

I don't blame people who buy into the whole war on Christmas idea.
I blame the religious leaders who spur it on.

Mostly I blame the damn asteroid that caused such a violent tilting of the Earth for creating these darn seasons in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:44 PM

Even Bush didn't escape this one. He is under fire for sending out a non-religious HOLIDAY card with a picture of the family dogs and an inscription of Happy Holidays! His spokesman says that the cards go to many non- Christians ergo the choice.

The spokesman for the "war" says that even if the president himself were Jewish, he should send a Christmas card with a Christmas message. Because???? Seems to be because he says so. Go figure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Once Famous
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:00 PM

Actually I am sick of Christmas and having it shoved down my non-Christian throat. I don't care if you want to celebrate it though. Shop til you drop. Pay off all your bills by next November when you can start again. Shop at my cousin's store so he can buy my kids nice Hanukah presents. Wax nostalgic for a time many under 30 will never know or even care to. Get back to playing real music on the radio on December 26.

But most of all, please join us at the local Chinese restaurants for good conversation and some dim sum on Christmas Eve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: appydaze
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:17 PM

Excuse me...I am a pagan..The 'holiday' you call christmas was stolen from Pagans many years ago,,,it now appears to have been nicked, again, by a consumer society, who doesn't actually give a ***.
I agree with you here Martin Gibson.
(Hurry up January!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: number 6
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:54 PM

" But most of all, please join us at the local Chinese restaurants for good conversation and some dim sum on Christmas Eve."

MG - used to do this on every Xmas eve when we were living in Toronto. Unforutunately you can't find a Cinese restaurant in Saint John that serves dim sum.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 10:30 PM

appydaze, you must be bright-shiny brand new arond here (in which case, welcome to Mudcat), because you seem unaware that your point has been argued every way possible here each year at this time. And it's not what I was referring to. If the Christians stole it, people who want to take the day back should call it by their OWN name, not the name of Jesus. Looking at my post I think I said that quite clearly.... did you just want an excuse to pick a fight? I'm not going to fight.... Happy Yule or whatever you call your celebration, while I celebrate what I celebrate and call it what I call it. No harm, no foul, no fight. It can all happen on the same day, can't it?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 10:58 PM

Merry Solstice, anyone who chooses to celebrate the turning of the Wheel etc., etc.

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 11:05 PM

I am more or less a Pagan (I do believe in Father Sky and Mother Earth and their bounty, where not destroyed), but Christmas- what, me worry??

So we get together, buy each other gifts (music and single malt preferably), enjoy listening to early Renaissance polyphony to Vernon Dalhart to folkies to Tango or whatever, and generally enjoy!

Whatever you call it, enjoy!

(Excellent dimsum to suchi to Ethiopian to Jamaican jerk to whatever in Calgary (even great beef, lamb and thick bacon), with out over 20% visible minorities and 70% invisible minorities (ethnic cookery from UK (Stilton to steak and kidney to single malt), Poland and Hungary and Spain (pirohy and paprika chicken and pizza and perdiz estofada and Italian sausage) and Oz and Alberta and Arizona (spring lamb and anything barbie) and, oh yes, great fry bread, bannock, berries and buffalo stew from the original immigrants).
Even Canadian whiskey and salmon and poutine for northern foreigners from outside Alberta and Saskatchewan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 11:35 PM

Celebrate LIFE! Any dang way you want to. All cultures have their own names for things, and that's okay. Animals greet the sunrise with reverence and joy, and they do not argue about what to call it. They know it's holy by direct awareness, and it is in fact beyond naming.

Only people are so foolish as to think that once they have named something, they know what it is. The fact is, they don't. They just know the name, which is a made-up mental convention. To fight and argue over such made-up conventions is beyond absurd. It's meaningless.

People should LIVE their religion, not argue about its outer forms. Outer forms don't matter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 11:36 PM

Meanwhile, this laptop is driving me nuts...


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 11:47 PM

God in any language whatsover still means God. Truth in any language whatsoever is still Truth. But who would care to listen...when there are converts to be made, borders to be violated, differing belief systems to attack and destroy, museums to be plundered, infidels to blow up, and "sinners" to burn?

It is religion's fanatics and fools who have given a bad name to religion. Kind of like politics that way, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: open mike
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:10 AM

isn't there a "buy nothing for christmas"
or simply buynothing dot org or something
like that?

you don't have to cave in to the compulsive
shopping addiction...


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 03:55 AM

Could I be the first to wish you all a merry Easter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: DougR
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 01:25 PM

Merry Christmas, Donuel!
DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: leftydee
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 03:43 PM

I find this War on Christmas just another talking point of the religous right. It seems they're hell bent on making sure we are divided. I find none of the mercy or goodness of Jesus in them but a mean superiority streak that allows for no thought but their own. They continually play the victim. I suppose it's easier to rally the troops when you appear oppressed. Our zealots are better than Muslims zealots is the message and it's disgusting.

I'm a reformed christian. I gave my heart to Jesus at 13 and took it back before 18. I found no comfort in zealotry even at a young age. Still, I'll wish you a Merry Christmas. Culturally, it's my holiday. A time for friends and family to celebrate life.

If these folks ( the warriors)really wanted to emulate Jesus they'd probably boycott Walmart, who has a history of abusing people on many levels, even though they'll wish you a Merry Christmas.

So to all of you Merry Christmas or whatever. I wish you Peace.

Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 04:19 PM

oh f**k..... this thread reads like the memo. Bah! Humbug! LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:00 PM

What's sometimes puzzled me is how it is the kind of Protestant fundamentalists who would deplore the whole notion of "Mass" don't seem to have a problem with the actual word "Christmas".


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:11 PM

Martin,

   I love your little tirades....you remind me SO much of Ben Stein...the guy currently doing the Clear Eye commercials...LOL...can't help it.....the voice, the look...I see him and I think Martin Gibson. LOL

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:17 PM

Maybe Ben Stein is reading my stuff here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 05:46 PM

Christmas. A sad time of year for many people who cannot afford gifts and have no one giving them gifts. Our school fills hamper every year for families who have hit some hard times; for single parents who do the best they can to make ends somehow meet. I abhor the HO HO HO garbage and really wish Christmas would get back to being a time for Christians to celebrate the birth of Emmanuel. However, I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon. Christmas for me? HUMBUG!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 06:20 PM

Brucie,

   I'm sending you a Christmas card anyway!!!!   ;)

My church has a "tree" every year with the gender and age of a child and a small list of things that they might like. Every year, it seems that the older children's names are left on the tree...everyone gobbles up the tags for the little ones. This year, the Salvation Army has Angel Trees...the same kind of idea....and in an interview I read recently, they ask folks to remember the older children as well. I decided that I would try to find a child that is closest in age to a teen that I hold dear to my heart. Both will receive presents from our home.

The HO HO HO business has been going on around here since before Halloween. That is just a bit much for me and for me personally, the season loses a little bit of magic because it is SO commercialized and drawn out.

Keep an eye out for that card, Brucie.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,Ben Stein
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 06:33 PM

The truth is out. My whole shtick is based on Martin Gibson. All of it. Without Martin, I'd probably be making onion buns in some neighborhood bakery. Martin, baby, I owe you. Bigtime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 06:37 PM

Martin, dear Martin,

    I can't imagine Ben Stein saying half the things you do without falling over....and then for some strange reason, I picture him/you sitting up with a hotdog....a Hebrew Frank to be specific...."We answer to a higher authority!!" thundering in the background....strange....so very strange...



Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 07:43 AM

I see two main problem with these sorts of holy wars over Christmas: people's ignorance about the historical holidays, and the Christian right in the US.

There have always been three sorts of Europeans/European Americans celebrating: Christians (who celebrate the birth of Christ), quasi or lapsed Christians (who aren't much for the religious aspects of the Christian holiday but go to church/mass on the day), and secularists, pagans, and people of other religions who celebrate the secular/cultural Santa/St Nick/gift bringer aspects of a variety of European cultures.

Christmas/mid-winter celebrations have always had two tracks: one religious, one cultural. In some countries where pagan traditions remained strong into the 20th century and the conversions to Christianity didn't run so very deep, days or eves other than Dec 24/25 were, until globalized capitalist Christmas took over the world, still the major celebrations in those countries. That has begun to wane all across Europe now, where the Anglo American capitalist conversion to corporate style Christmas has begun to stamp out local cultures' holiday traditions.

Conservative Christians have always been niggardly about the celebration of Christmas, and believe secularists/pagans/non-Christians shouldn't be able to "steal" or "water down" or "destroy" Christmas as the dominant holiday of the US holiday calendar. Unfortunately, those conservative Christians also control all three branches of the US government, so we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. These people remind me of those intolerant relatives of mine who refuse to change the Christmas dinner menu after 35 years of no one eating the oyster stew.

Fuck 'em all, I sez. Do whatever you want.

Celebrate Las Posadas. La Befana. St. Nicholas. St. Lucia. Nochebuenas. New Years. Boxing Day. Women's Christmas. Joladagatal (w/13 Santas). Celebrate Advent, Epiphany, the solstice, the turning of the year, or whatever your culture (of origin, or adopted, or adapted) compells you to celebrate.

And ignore the dumbass Christian right begrudgers who insist upon dictating to the rest of us how we should live our lives, from the bedroom, to the boardroom, to the halls of government, to the holiday festivities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 07:53 AM

Sorry, I meant to provide links to two good, relevant wiki articles on the subject:

Santa Claus

and

Christian opposition to Santa Claus


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: tarheel
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 08:37 AM

Merry Christmas,everyone!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 11:29 AM

And a Happy Chrismahannukwanzaka to you too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 01:22 PM

It has recently come to my attention that not only are some department stores ignoring the very word Christmas but there are certain houses of worship that are doing the same.

It seems that Synagoges and Mosques are not celebrating Christmas.

When will this persecution ever stop?

We must put an end to this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 01:39 PM

Bill O'Reilly has, of course, gotten into the act too.

Oh, the horror.

As my mom used to say, "That's not a very Christian attitude young man."


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 01:44 PM

Guest, please email this thread to Bill O'Reilly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 09:32 AM

Happy Christmas to all of you.
This looks like a very American thread to me.

At least three of the parents of the 21 kids in my daughter's class are atheists like me and we still follow the local custom at Christmas time. If my parents hadn't married just one day before Christams in 1945 to make this their 60th wedding day my daughter would sing with the local church choir and I would sit there and listen. We even sing Christmas chorals at home. I know Christmas means something more to Christians than to me but I like customs and traditions whatever the origin.

Some day in February the kids of the village go around in costumes. That has a pagan origin and I don't care.

To a native speaker of German the 'happy holidays' replacement for 'merry Christmas' sounds particularly ironic. Our 'merry Christmas' in verbatim translation is 'merry holynights' and it is not easy to see that 'happy holidays' is an improvement upon 'merry holy(i)nights'.

But just for those for whom these days are not holy days in a Christian sense in respect of your feelings let me end by wishing you
merry holy days.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 11:12 AM

Exactly as it should be Wolfgang. What the US Christian right doesn't want anyone to know, is that there has ALWAYS been two sorts of Christmas traditions: one religious, one cultural/secular. For hundreds of years. In both new world and old world.

And of course, they don't want ANYONE talking about Hannukah! So much of this "war on Christmas" drivel is good old fashioned Jew baiting--and I don't think I've used the term 'Jew baiting' in a long time. But that is, IMO, what is driving this whole right wing thing. Backlash against broader acceptance and inclusion of other cultures' holidays, like the Jews and African Americans who celebrate Kwanzaa, Mexican Christmas traditions, that sort of thing. It's very racist.

I understand Bill O'Reilly is now blaming Jon Stewart (a Jew) and The Daily Show for the slide towards secularism.

Here in Minnesota, the reaction to this whole war on Christmas thing is being viewed very negatively. People here just don't understand why the right wing nuts want to insult non-Christians and secularists by putting down their holidays, in order to "boost" Christmas. It is perceived as just a rude and nasty attitude to have, especially at holiday time.

But hey--the arrogance of the right wing nuts, along with the fact that this is their last hurrah in the US, as the backlash is now starting to bite them in the ass--is pretty legendary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:12 PM

their last hurrah in the US, as the backlash is now starting to bite them in the ass

If only that were true.......unfortunately, its just wishful thinking. The U.S. ain't seen nothin' yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:14 PM

I kinda see it Wolfgang's way. When I was a kid Christmas was part of the school year. While I did NOT participate in the saying of The Lord's Prayer first thing in the morning, I did sing along with the rest of the glee club during our Christmas presentation, which did not include a nod to either Hanukkah or Ramadan. While I am glad that school prayer is out, run of the mill Christmas Carols aren't particularly objectionable to me.

Bill O'Reilly is a weird little guy. He's a bully on the set, but has occasionally indulged in some opinions which sound as if he is actually occasionally thinking for himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 07:35 PM

Hey, wolfgang:

Good posts, and a Merry Whatever You Take In the Friendly Spirit It Is Offered in. My German is pretty rusty, but in English, Christmas is very simple. "Mass" is a celebration. So, Christmas is literally celebrating Christ. Now, I'm sure that someone who is far more scholarly than me (the average man on the street) could come up with a much lengthier dissertation on the root meaning of the word Christmas. But, that's what Christmas is for me. That simple. It's not Christmas trees or gifts or Jingle Bell Rock or all the other accoutrements that have attached themselves to the celebration like barnacles. It is celebrating Christ, which I could do anywhere on the planet without pretty lights or fancy-wrapped gifts. I don't see anything inherently wrong with gift giving or Christmas trees. It depends on the reason behind them... if it is no more than corporate merchandising, and people buying gifts because "I've got to get him something," then it has no meaning to me.

Believing in God and Jesus Christ does not set me against those who don't. To me, much is simple. I believe that God is love. That means that as a believer, I am called to be as loving of others as possible. I have a son who doesn't believe in God and my love for him is no more dependent on what he believes than it is for loving you, Wolfgang... or even Martin Gibson. Love is not dependent upon what someone else believes. It is the expression of what I believe.

So, it's not important what I wish someone, as long as they accept it as an expression of love and well-wishes. If wishing someone Merry Christmas offends or irritates them, then my wishing them good cheer with that phrase isn't loving. I'd rather say "Merry Alternate Thursdays."

Sometimes it's hard for people who worship Christ not to get lost in the distractions that swirl around Christmas. I try to keep it simple. Why, hey... I even try to love the religious right. They are a particular challenge to me, in a way that Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims or just about anyone else is because they are distorting a message of love, service and humility for their own gain.

And so, Herr Wolfgang, I send you sincere warm greetings of the season that have nothing to do with what you believe, and everything to do with what I do.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,Ad Nauseum
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 07:54 PM

Well no shit Jerry.   We are all well aware of your Christianity because you shove it in just about every post there is. Oh and hey, let's not forget you are married to a woman of color. I'm sure she is wonderful but the more you carry on the sicker I get. I don't see anyone else going on about the color of their spouse. Why? It's highly inconsequential. I make it a point to pass over a majority of your posts simply because you have very little to say that is new. Give it a rest pal.

Oh yeah, Merry Christmas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:05 PM

How insensitive of me to mention Christ in a post about Christmas. And a Merry Christmas to you too, as nauseum.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,Ad Nauseum
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:14 PM

Of course Christ and Christmas go together, that is not my beef with you. Your personal beliefs seems to worm into many posts. That is what gets sickening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:39 AM

Poster for World Premier :
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/hakka.jpg

                  
I used the mandelbrot fractal to represent a simple philosophy with a deep meaning.



Program Notes on Hakka, a violin concerto
"Hakka," a new violin concerto composed by Chien-Tai Chen, describes the great migrations of the Hakka people from antiquity to modern day. The Hakka Violin Concerto is best subtitled as "wanderer" for people who are new to this culture.
With eyes closed, you may envision an ancient journey that began in the mountains and grew in scope and intensity, propelling the Hakka people into the future. There are celebrations and hardships as people shake the dust from their souls as they travel from marginal soil to new horizons. Bending like bamboo throughout the ages, the strength of tradition has sustained the wandering Hakka people worldwide with a hard-working peaceful discipline. There is a simple story here, but it floats upon a deep philosophy.
The first movement   'Migrations' portrays countless years of wandering. Historic Chinese percussion is heard in the finger bells, harp and gong as chanting of the winds and brass morphs into Hakka mountain song set against an enormous landscape. There are many crossroads of hardships and celebrations that the caravans traverse. Near the end of the first movement, one can hear a bridge of harmony between traditional Chinese instruments and sounds of today.
Chien-Tai Chen has incorporated early traditional songs from very specific regions--including the district of South Taiwan, like "Jian Jian Hua" from Kao Hsiung and Mei Nong district. The composer has also adapted the "Song Kou Mountain Song" from district of Mei Xian from Guang Dong Province. This is where we hear the solo violin, not merely singing, but chanting Song Kou in a question answer style.
The second movement 'Millennium' has three distinct sections: (1) Solemnly, which begins with a Hakka-style melody lending reverence and celebration of one's ancestors.         (2) Cheerfully, swirls with a unique and carefree joyous counterpoint.    (3) The final section of this movement is titled Thankfully. You will hear the violin truly take flight here amidst the pulse of both rich and peaceful harmonies.
The glorious 3rd movement is Perpetual Motion. Look for a complex and slow gong sequence from Cantonese Zen Temple, as well as Chaozhou music that is written with an 18-beat theme. The steady increase in tempo is as relentless as the growing dynamics of Ravel's Bolero. The tempo eventually becomes unbound and transforms to one beat per measure. The violin solo enters into a random exploration and unites with modern percussion in a brand-new "Symphony Fantastique" fashion. Instead of striking the strings with the wood of the bow in a traditional col legno manner, chopsticks are used to bounce across all the strings. The finale is a total joy. I sincerely believe that this concerto will illuminate a personal journey for Hakka people as well as all people who wander this Earth.


Don Hakman, an American poet and artist, wrote the English program notes and created several graphics inspired by the Violin Concerto Hakka. You have his permission to use the concert program notes as well as his graphic designs for the concert programs and print media

Works in progress….

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/earthseeded.jpg


http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/hakka.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:15 AM

The poem 'The Night Before Christmas' or 'A Visit From St. Nicholas' was written by Clement Moore in 1822. It doesn't mention Christ. I think it safe to presume there is a secular tradition of Christmas that goes back quite a ways, that has nothing to do with being Christian, except it was the default religion of the countries where the gift bringer cultural traditions come from.

The right wing nuts are just pissed that jolly ole is more popular than Jesus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:31 AM

If the war is on secular Xmas then they should put certain Christmas songs on their NO PLAY list:

White Christmas - Irving Berlin

Silver Bells

...?


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Pseudolus
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:29 AM

Jerry, excellent post and I love ya.

Ad Nauseum, Nice name.

Of COURSE there is a secular tradition to Christmas. Anyone one who says that there isn't, and then goes out a buys their family gifts is a hypocrite. Is Santa more popular than Jesus? Yep, no doubt. Is ice cream more popular than green vegetables? Yep, no doubt. Point is, in both cases, you can have both and in my humble opinion, one is definitely better for you than the other.

It's not a contest folks, enjoy the holidays, all of them!

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:33 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/sainta.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,$2.00 Bracelets
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 04:11 PM

Where do I go to order the bracelets? I can't find them.
Please help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:00 PM

On CNN they had the woman whowas selling them on justsaymerrychristmas.com, but I could not find the site either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: kendall
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 02:04 PM

Jimmy Durante was right. His motto was "Leave everyone else the hell alone."


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,have faith
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:32 PM

True Christians should not be surprised by the actions of the Secular Humanists. They are aggressively and satisfactorily exterminating not only Christmas but also all religious beliefs from our society. This New World Order is celebrating victory to the smallest level ….. our young school children. These end times are accurately written in Bible Prophecy. They should be embraced as evidence that the coming of our lord Jesus Christ is close.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 08:17 PM

Ho-hum... The biblical description of the "end times" has applied just as well to any time since the Bible was written; you've got general insight about the nature of things there, at least as seen from a Christian viewpoint, but no specific prediction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: bobad
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 09:13 AM

Oh man, fuck Christmas.

Seriously � are you kidding me with this �There�s a war on Christmas� bullshit? FOX News wasn�t raking in enough cash already from all the Christmas commercials for Kill �em All Barbie and Girls Gone Wild Brand Toddler Gear? They had to start publishing books about some bogus attack on Christianity? And who did they pick to lead this particular charge?

John fucking Gibson. This guy has wiener written all over him.

Bill O�Reilly gets all the credit as the biggest nutcase in FOXville, but Gibson really deserves his own special wing in the happy house. This motherfucker�s embedded assignment reads �Up Karl Rove�s ass.�

What makes him such a dick? I mean, besides making a fortune by screaming hysterically about how oppressed Christians are by the other twenty percent? How about advocating bombing countries that don�t vote the way we want in their own elections? Way to encourage democracy, fuckhead. And maybe he was kidding when he wished, on air, that the French had gotten the 2012 Olympics instead of the Brits so the terrorists would �blow up Paris,� but it might have been just a touch over the top to call for it again on the day of the London train bombings. Classy move, asshole.

And really? That�s just scratching the fucking surface. Anyone remember who was responsible for the bombing of the Federal building in Oklahoma City? John does: Iraq. And speaking of Iraq, Gibson thinks Rove deserves a fucking medal for outing that CIA agent. And, like any good reporter, he wanted to burn the Florida ballots after his buddy Bush got �elected� rather than, I don�t know, count them? �Is this a case where knowing the facts actually would be worse than not knowing?� That right there is why sometimes it�s useful for journalists to go to, what do you call that fucking place? Oh yeah, journalism school.

And now he�s all worked up about Christmas being stolen. What is this, the fucking Fairytale Network? It�s a national fucking holiday and we�re spending gobs of our hard-earned tax dollars on wreaths and lights for your special Santa day. But these bastards are all �But they call them Holiday trees!� Here�s a clue: no, they fucking don�t. Ok, maybe in a couple places, like on FOXNews.com and at the White House, but if Christmas is under attack, I�m Kris fucking Kringle.

And guess who�s stealing Christmas, according to Gibson. Go on � guess. �A cabal of secularists, so-called humanists, trial lawyers, cultural relativists, and liberal, guilt-wracked Christians � not just Jewish people.� (Emphasis mine. Pure, unadulterated anti-semitism, his.) A cabal? Are you fucking kidding me? Could we try to be a little more fucking original with our Jew-hating?

Speaking of Jew-hating, Pat Buchanan has joined the hype-a-thon of the supposed Attack on Christmas, too. Or, as he put it, �What we�re witnessing here are hate crimes against Christianity.� Sorry? We�re not so hot on paying for an inflatable camel for your goddamn nativity scene and suddenly we�re Slobodan fucking Milosevic? Fuck you. Get some goddamn perspective, you little prick. When they start hunting Christians in the streets, it�ll be time to start yelling �Hate crime.� And no, it won�t count when they start chasing you with the torches. That�ll be called �The Most Wonderful Time of the Year.�

And Bill O�Reilly, Gibson�s cellmate in the silly shack, is doing his part to save Christmas, too. He�s been going after New York�s Mayor Bloomberg (that Commie) because he says the Christmas Tree at Rockefeller Center has been renamed a �Holiday Tree,� and �No Christian Christmas symbols are allowed in the public schools.� The only problem? Neither of those things is even remotely fucking true.

It takes some super-sized balls for O�Reilly to get all lathered up about sinners and their fictional anti-Christian crusade. Every fucking person on the planet has hard and fast evidence that Bill is a world-class pervert, but still he feels totally justified lecturing the rest of us on our moral inferiority.

How fucked up is Bill O�Reilly? Pretty fucked up. Everyone got so crazyfaced about him confusing a sponge and a Middle Eastern snackcake (pretty fucking funny, mind you), that they missed the scary bit: what he meant to say. Old Bill wanted to get all funky on his intern like this: (you�ll excuse my foul language, I�m quoting an award-winning newscaster here) �I�d take the other hand with the [loofah] thing and put it on your pussy.�

loofah (lū�fə) noun. A natural exfoliating sponge.

exfoliate (ĕks-fō�lē-āt�) verb. To remove (a layer of bark or skin, for example) in flakes or scales; peel.

That�s right. Bill O�Reilly, fount of morals, is super familiar with the female anatomy. So much so, that he knows how good it feels to have one�s pussy exfoliated. We�re talking h � o � t, Hot. That�s exactly who I�m going to for my life lessons.

Sorry, where were we? Oh yeah, fuck Christmas.

Can we back up just a couple steps here? At what point did a basic understanding of the separation of church and state become a fucking war on religion? And how did we get to the point where you can call an organization set up to defend our civil liberties �Terrorists� on national television and no one fires your ass? Enough. Fuck all of you lying little shitheads who wish the world was out to get you so you could play the poor oppressed victims. Wake up assholes � you�re the cowboys, not the fucking Indians.

�But we want to display our Christmas tree on city property!� You can, go right ahead. �They�re stopping us from praying in school!� They�re not, so fuck off. �We�re not allowed to say �Merry Christmas� anymore!� Are you fucking kidding me? Knock yourself out. Say it at work, scream it in your high school lunch room, hell, tattoo it on your fucking forehead for all we care. Guess who�s gonna be there defending your right to do every one of those things? The fucking ACLU. One of these days you bastards are going to drive those fuckers out of business, and then you�ll see some actual attacks on your religious liberties. I thought conservatives were supposed to be all proud and independent? When did they turn into a bunch of fucking crybabies?

Let�s back up even fucking further, shall we? Can anyone tell me how old Christmas is? Anyone? Two thousand years, give or take, right? Gee, who�s been reading their No Child Left Behind History Textbooks? Try fucking four thousand years. Huh. Twice as fucking long as your little baby king has been around. How could that possibly be, unless. . . waitaminute. . .

Christmas isn�t fucking Christian. Ok, now we�re talking.

That�s right, that Yuletide cheer you�re spreading? What exactly do you think Yule is? It's the fucking Pagan celebration of solstice. And those �Christmas� traditions? They�re not just like Pagan rituals, they fucking are Pagan rituals. Way before your Jesus got all magical with the bread and fishes, the Romans were celebrating the birth of Mithra on . . . guess? Go on � guess. December fucking twenty fifth. What a weird coincidence. Practically the whole thing is ripped off from the fucking Druids and the Romans. Twelve days? Check. Exchanging gifts? Check. Mistletoe? Check. And you�d better fucking believe that those decorated trees that Gibson and Co. are so bent out of shape over are as Pagan as the Rune and Crystal Shack at Pentagramfest 2005. You might as well be building miniature fucking Stonehenges in your den.

And don�t you read your own goddamn Bibles? Jesus was born when? In the middle of winter? Lot of Shepherds out watching their flocks around that time of year in Bethlehem? No, because they�d be freezing their fucking asses off. Tell you what � y�all go figure out which one of the different Bible stories about the birth of Baby Jesus� you want to believe, and then we�ll argue about whether it fucking happened like that or not.

Christians just stole a bunch of traditions from other cultures, slapped them together, stuck a fucking tinfoil star on top and called it the Most Important Holiday of the Year. Modern American Christmas makes Michael Jackson look positively organic.

But you boys at FOX still freak out every year about how everyone's out to get your special trees. This is really the most important thing you have to talk about? Whether Target says Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas? Here�s a brainstorm: there�s a fucking war on. Our soldiers are out there dying while you guys do your 14th live feed of the day from WalMart to show us what good little consumers we are. What Would Jesus Do? He�d jump over that newsdesk and kick your ass for that shit. Are you sure you want to hang your journalism credentials on a story about what some guy calls a tree?

Well we�ve fucking had it. You want to play bullshit games and scream about how God�s fucking judgment is gonna come raining down on us if we don't start watching our vocabulary? Go right the fuck ahead. But let me clue you in on something: fire and brimstone ain�t no deterrent for us. We�re not going to hell, assholes, we�re fucking in hell. We live with you.

And fuck Easter too, you fertility�rite�celebrating, whiny, self-righteous, don�t�know�the� history�of�your�own�religion assholes. Fuck off.

http://www.fuckchristmas.org/


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 09:41 AM

bobad, take heart in the humiliating defeat of O Reilly when he tried to sue Al Franken. His humiliating defeat when he debated Phil Donahue. His self debasement when he attacked family members of the victims of 9-11. And as you mentioned his grave financial set back when he settled out of court regarding sex crimes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: bobad
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 10:32 AM

Don

I didn't write that, I found it on the web, I'm not that erudite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Pseudolus
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 10:36 AM

It's nice Bobad that in an effort to put down the whining and complaining that you were able to state your point so calmly and without emotion, cause we sure hate crybabies.

Merry Christmas,
Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 11:36 AM

åÌãÇÊ ÇáãÞÇæãÉ
æÚáì ÕÚíÏ ÇáãÞÇæãÉ ÇáÚÑÇÞíÉ åÇÌãÊ ãÌãæÚÉ ÊÞæá ÅäåÇ ÊÇÈÚÉ áÔÈßÉ ÇáÞÇÚÏÉ ãÓÇÁ Çáíæã Ýí ÈÛÏÇÏ ÚÓßÑííä ÃãíÑßííä ááãÑÉ ÇáÃæáì ãäÐ ÈÏÁ ÇÍÊáÇá ÇáÚÑÇÞ. æÃÝÇÏ ÔåæÏ æãäÔæÑÇÊ ÚËÑ ÚáíåÇ ÞÑÈ ãßÇä ÇáÍÇÏË Ãä ÚÑÇÞíÇ ÞÊá Úáì ÃíÏí ÞæÇÊ ÇáÇÍÊáÇá ÎáÇá åÌæã Ôäå ãÌåæáæä ßÇäæÇ Ýí ÓíÇÑÉ ÖÏ ÇáÞæÇÊ ÇáÃãíÑßíÉ ÇáãÊãÑßÒÉ Ýí ÈÛÏÇÏ


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 01:13 PM

( I shoulda put this xmas carol here )


Gingle bells


The hero is inside you
when you follow dreams.
Worship God in everyone
it's easy as it seems

There's folks who don't find Jesus
cuz they didn't look inside
There are Jews who feel more Jewish
than the Jew they are beside.


Chorus_________________
Heaven Hell Heaven Hell
are words that we made up
to signify our life on Earth
when honest or corru-upt.

Heaven Hell Heaven Hell
in temple mosque or church
are not the way to peace on Earth
no matter how you search.
________________________


Until you know that Budda's you
you will have no clue
that metaphors describe unknowns
shared by me and you.


Unless you're a creator
Creations not for you
If you are not merciful
You messed up Allah too

Chorus_____________

If you're not a Santa
your presents will be few.
If this song offends you
I'll tell you what to do.

Look inside and ask yourself
the words that you believe.
Have you confused the metaphor
and worship Christmas Eve?

Chorus_________________

Some may think this sacriledge
because they missed the point.
They listened to a guy in charge
that God did not appoint.

The hero is inside you
when you follow dreams.
Worship God in everyone
it's as easy as it seems.

Chorus


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 04:25 PM

THIS JUST IN!

Ha O'Reilly has been caught perpetrating fraud with his personal war on Christmas crusade.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/14/silent-night-fraud

FUAX News has no comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 06:00 PM

As if to justify the FOX network war on Christmas fraudulent reports, the US Congress passed a house resolution to PROTECT CHRISTMAS today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Dead Horse
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 07:20 AM

Let us give them (Christians) Christmas, so long as they keep their grubby paws off Easter, huh?
Can you imagine giving your children chocolate figures nailed to crosses, or playing Hunt the Stone that the Easter Ghost hid in ya friggin garden?
Let 'em keep Christmas and we keep our eggs & bunnies, right? :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 08:00 AM

I fear a domino theory at work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,vickey Da Bolt
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM

this freakin' war needs 2 end


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,Kelly
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 11:16 PM

The lack of people greeting each other with Merry Christmas, and calling Christmas trees, Holiday trees makes things feel like someone blew every fireplace out for the season.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 12:08 AM

Now stop it right this minute. If this thread reaches 100, as predicted, then the Christmas terrorists win.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 06:11 AM

Dare I?


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 06:12 AM

Izzit fair?


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 06:13 AM

I dunno. Well, Ted and lead are ALWAYS getting it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 06:14 AM

And there is is...100!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 09:34 AM

You are a cad sir. Don't you know this means waaar!? :^)

woomp (thinsulate glove slap)


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 11:15 AM

So, is everybody ready to join in an old Manson Family favorite?...

    "Oh, it's lovely weather for a slay ride together with you..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 12:35 PM

*big grin*


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 12:43 PM

Good example of bias, friend Bill. I have been chastised several times for saying Merry Christmas. Yet when I wish a Pagan friend a joyous Solstice, or a Jewish friend Happy Hannakuh, I never hear a word. I agree that the fundies of all religions are problematic, but you have given a good example of what I am talking about.

Can't we all just get along??

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 01:59 PM

ALL of us? All 6 billion? Do I have to have them all over for tea?

Maybe just you & me for a beer, Mick...and then we'll invite a few more & see how it goes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 02:30 PM

Now we're talkin'!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 05 - 03:15 PM

MERRY FESTIVUS!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:52 PM

I don't blame the Christian fundamentalists for this nonsense as much as I blame the cynical neoconservatives who take every opportunity to exploit the emotions of their sincere but unsophisticated salt-of-the-earth constituents.

This whole stupid campaign is obviously the work of biased right-wing media outlets (most notably, Fox News), quite transparently under the direction of political masterminds like Karl Rove. It's nothing more than a smokescreen to distract the public from considering the current administration's too-numerous-to-mention shortcomings. That's the reason I hesitate to engage in this "debate" at all ~ not only is it unworthy of serious discussion, but more importantly, participating in this "debate" on either side only adds to the desired effect of avoiding consideration of real issues.

But here I go, anyway...

Today's local paper here in Central New Jersey included a very refreshing "Religion" column by a minister who thanks the merchants who "have removed the word 'Christmas' from their holiday advertising...You have reminded us that Christmas has nothing to do with entering your stores and buying more than we can afford..." Amen!

It might also be noted that many aspects of our public year-end celebration predate Christianity, with roots in ancient European paganism ~ notably the ubiquitous tree, the yule log, drinking and general partying, and the basic idea of celebrating the return of the sun during these days immediately following the winter solstice. But then again, those bigmoughed numbskulls pressing their anti-"anti-Christmas" campaign can hardly be expected to know anything about history, can they?

If I'm repeating anything already discussed above ~ sorry! I haven't the stomach to read everything written on this non-issue, and so I didn't read through the entire thread before sounding off...


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 05 - 12:59 PM

I whole heartedly agree PapaGator. The greatest blasphemy of all is to hijack a faith for the purposes of a warfare state.
There are no greater scoundrels than those who are wrapped in flags and bibles preaching for war and the patriotic call to kill.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: GUEST,Let everyone know deocortive Chritmas light
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 12:17 AM

is Christ himself, the light of the world.. I have been
notice that the last couple of years people shy saying "Merry Christmas". I may not martyers but You can be sure that I will say
Merry Christmas, Happy Easter, and sign of cross before the meal at
restaruants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 01:45 AM

1st man: Merry Christmas.

2nd man: Don't you fucking start with me, asshole!


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Subject: RE: BS: Join the war on Christmas
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 05:15 AM

I'm a born again Christain, and I hate this business about Happy holidays and winter festivals. The other faiths have their beliefs and so do we, so MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE ANDA HAPPY HAUNKUAH AS WELL.


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