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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 30 Dec 10 - 09:56 AM Strange - that link worked in Firefox on my Mac at home but doesn't work in the same version of Firefox on the Windows machine I have here. This one does, though, but doesn't do the pop-up: http://www.rachealcogan.com/ Her website is fairly complicated so there's a lot to go wrong. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 30 Dec 10 - 09:43 AM Thanks for the link, Jack. Your first link didn't work for me, so here's another try: http://www.rachealcogan.com/soundBytes/video.html |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 29 Dec 10 - 01:42 PM Somebody doing very unusual things with the recorder: Racheal Cogan An Australian playing Greek music on Renaissance recorders. Her homepage pops up a lovely solo sound sample; the other sample tracks on her site (mostly hosted on YouTube) are all with various groups. She uses Ganassi-type recorders in C and G; I've never tried one (got rather put off by attempting to read Ganassi's book, it seems to be one of those occasions when the product is better than the manual). Probably not all that far from my Mollenhauer Kynseker G alto. Cait Webb of the Scottish mediaeval music group Gaita also uses a Ganassi G alto, made by Tim Cranmore (who doesn't make them any more) - really nice instrument. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 29 Dec 10 - 12:47 PM I've still never tried a wooden recorder, but would have if I'd seen the 1/10th deal mentioned above; rather, I introduce English hymns, folk songs and carols, and my own "Chants from Walkabouts" with the ABS Aulos, also, mentioned above - http://myspace.com/walkaboutsverse |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 29 Dec 10 - 11:44 AM Thanks for the link, Tootler. for what it's worth, I think he's playing too fast. There's a difference between lively and frantic. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Tootler Date: 28 Dec 10 - 06:18 PM Thanks Leeneia, glad you like it. I think Jack's right about La Rotta, though we will probably never know for certain, but there is another pairing in the collection: "La Manfredina" and "La Rotta" which have a similar characteristic of a lyrical tune followed by a lively one. There is an excellent album featuring the tunes from the collection from Which Lamento di Tristano came from, called "Chominciamento di Gioia" by an Austrian Group called "Ensemble Unicorn". They have an excellent recorder player by the name of Michael Posch. Here is a clip of them playing Chominciamento di Gioia The original notation came from a manuscript in the British Library. I am not a scholar of medieval music and I found my copy of Lamento di Tristano in a book of medieval music for the recorder - in modern notation, of course. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:49 AM I think it means "round", as in a round dance. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:45 AM Thanks for the link, Tootler. I like the way you bring the Lamento alive, as if it truly were a person singing of sad things. The Rotta is enjoyable too. Do you suppose La Rotta means 'The Redhead'? |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Tootler Date: 27 Dec 10 - 07:50 PM I liked your Scott Reiss Clip, Jack. Beautiful, expressive playing. Leeneia, I know what you mean about playing in church. I belong to the Northeast Recorder Orchestra (NE England, that is) and we mostly play our concerts in churches. I remember one particular concert where we opened with a piece by Byrd and it just seemed to soar in the way you described. Here is a clip of me playing some Early music on a Mollenhauer "Dream" Alto. http://soundcloud.com/tootlingeoff/tristano-la-rotta If anyone else has clips of themselves playing recorder, why not post them? |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 27 Dec 10 - 06:04 PM Following a suggestion in another thread here (perhaps best forgotten otherwise): Scott Reiss playing an Irish slow air The accompaniment is a bit too Gothic for my taste, but Reiss is great. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 27 Dec 10 - 05:42 PM flatten the tongue against the hard palate so that the air going out seems to be a flat ribbon of air rather than a soda-straw shaped column of air. Experiment with ribbons of various widths and thicknesses until the note sounds good. I have found this very useful ever since. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Mo the caller Date: 27 Dec 10 - 10:49 AM Leeneia, what did you mean by 'blow a ribbon'? |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 27 Dec 10 - 10:26 AM I liked it and bought it, Tim. Thanks for the info. You might pass it on that CD Baby has 'Passacaglia' spelled wrong. That might keep customers from finding the CD. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: RTim Date: 27 Dec 10 - 10:05 AM I know this is Blatant promotion - But my wife is a Recorder Player and her group - Ensemble Passacaglia has just brought out a new CD of music that people on this thread might be interested in. It is Early music including Spanish and some Turkish music. Below is the link to the CDBaby site where you can listen to some tracks. Tim Radford http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ensemblepassacglia |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 26 Dec 10 - 10:41 PM Probably. Here's a story on a different topic. A friend asked me to play 'Silent Night' along with her at a big church on Christmas Eve. At her request, I had written a descant for soprano recorder. We practiced at my home, and I was disappointed. I felt that it sounded pretty ugly. But when we played in the church, the recorder seemed like a different instrument. I believe that in the confines of our 'elbow room' (many windows, tile floor) the notes were echoing back and mixing up the frequencies, but in the church, they sailed into the huge space, pure and free. Either that, or the soprano realized it was in church now and decided it better behave. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 26 Dec 10 - 06:41 AM Other people (including dealers who sell them) find the Zen-On bass unresponsive high up, so it isn't just me. I know enough to not just try the standard fingerings but also use alternatives or make up my own. This is a common problem with wide-bore basses - the Zen-On is more like a Renaissance recorder than a Baroque one. I once tried a Mollenhauer Kynseker bass and it was even more extreme - fantastically loud in the low register but nothing would make it play above C in the upper octave. Doesn't matter for Renaissance bass parts. Recorders are idiosyncratic things. The hard note at the top end for the Zen-On is D (t12- ----, like the upper A on a C recorder). It sounds more easily both above and below that. This is a fairly common problem; the Aulos plastic tenor has it too. I expect the problem will lessen with time as the right combination of breath pressure and thumb opening becomes instinctive. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Dec 10 - 10:30 PM The Zen-On bass is a bit hard to play in its high register. I don't know if it has a scientific basis, Jack, but people say you shouldn't try to make a new instrument play high until it's been 'broken in.' How long that would take, they never say. I would give it a couple of months, anyway. Did you know that sometimes the note in the high register has different fingerings than the same note lower down? (If not, check a fingering chart.) I once commented that the high A on an alto was squeaky, and my teacher said "Blow me a ribbon." That was very helpful advice. Sometimes it helps to put your thumbnail across the top of the hole in the back versus at the side. Or vice versa, depending on the instrument. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 25 Dec 10 - 06:38 PM Just got another couple of recorders, brand new Zen-On C tenor and F bass in sycamore wood (from a charity shop that was selling them for about a tenth of the new retail price). Tried them out at an acoustic music session on Christmas Eve. So one of the first things I tried with the bass was playing it left-hand-only making a percussive train-whistle sounds while playing a cajon with my right hand, for a song I'd never heard before called "Santa Claus is Coming on the Boogie-Woogie Train". The Zen-On bass is a bit hard to play in its high register, but it has a great response to really hard attack. In a group of miscellaneous folk instruments it stands out much more than its continuous volume would suggest, it's almost like a wind-powered marimba. And it's extraordinarily light. Playing Telemann on it would probably be a non-starter but it does what I want. The tenor is less unusual, though it has a very bright tone compared with my others. I am thinking of it as a specialist Happy Music instrument. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 May 10 - 02:41 PM Sounds good, Creede. Actually, I'm in favor of anything that causes someone to get an instrument out and start making music. For duets, however, you might want two sopranos. An alto only goes down to an F, while a soprano goes down to a C. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Creede Date: 25 May 10 - 01:57 PM My parents got me my first recorder some 40 years ago when the music store in the town I grew up in had a fire sale (yes, first they had a fire). They got me a very nice soprano for $1. It smelled a bit of smoke, or maybe that was just my overactive kid imagination. I still have several around the house somewhere, but most are either missing a foot joint or need some repair. The exception is a very nice alto with ivory or ivoryesque joint rings. Wish I knew which box it was in, this thread has me of a mind to play it some more. And just yesterday my grandson was visiting and brought his recorder along. He's pretty good at Hot Cross Buns and similar songs; I just need to work with him on his breathing. He still hasn't quite mastered how to get the right pressure to produce a good, solid note. (That's another reason to find my alto, so I could do duets with him.) |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 25 May 10 - 01:35 PM Music teachers like to think of their pupils as using "music for recorder" (or "...for cello", or "... for trumpet", or whatever), and that's what's printed on thousands of sheet music covers, but most of the recorder's earliest repertoire was meant for any instrument that could play it. Most of us here play folk music a lot of the time, and most folk tunes work on most recorders. You don't need that "for recorder" label on music you get. You will sometimes come across effects that only work on the violin - if so leave them out or look for alternate ways to do them. You will very rarely find a folk tune version using an effect that only a recorder can get. Probably the tunebook I've used more than any other is "Kerr's Merry Melodies for the Violin", book 1. It's a collection of Scottish tunes published around 1880, at a time when hardly any recorders were in use, and Kerr can't have ever imagined a recorder playing from his book, but most of it works fine. It's never gone out of print. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 May 10 - 12:53 PM Hello, Destiny. I saw your question about getting music for recorder. Please tell us a little about your playing. Are you a beginner or experienced? Do you have a C recorder (soprano) or an F (alto)? Can you read music? ========= Betty, it is very common for recorders to be treated with wax or oils. It is to keep water vapor from the breath from soaking into the wood. It also makes the flow of air through the instruments go more fluidly. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Bettynh Date: 25 May 10 - 11:48 AM I bought a Koch recorder from his widow shortly after he died, after seeing an entry in the Whole Earth Catalog. If I remember correctly, he had a special process of curing the wood in a bath of special wax or oils, possibly to keep it from becoming toxic? It was beautiful, but a puppy chewed up the fipple. picture of workshop |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: mattkeen Date: 25 May 10 - 11:30 AM e have a Moeck Tenor and a Kung descant Fantastic tones |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 24 May 10 - 07:47 PM Looking back at this thread, I see all those articles about Koch recorders. I got one (an F alto) off EBay not long ago and it's fantastic. Supposedly made of cocobolo but hasn't been a problem for me. There were two Kochs, father (1892-1970) and son, though the father seems to have made most of them. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Tootler Date: 24 May 10 - 07:11 PM What sort of music are you looking for? BTW, try to avoid all capitals. It is considered shouting. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,DESTINY ANNASTASHIA DUARTE Date: 24 May 10 - 06:47 PM wERE DO YOU GO TO GET GOOD MUSIC 4 RECORDER |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Tootler Date: 11 Mar 10 - 07:45 AM You might do better to make a portative organ, Jack! They have a bellows with a chunk of granite on it. You lift up the bellows and let go and the weight causes the bellows to fall the air being directed through the pipes by a keyboard. The resistance in the system ensures the bellows falls at a reasonable rate. Periodically you lift the bellows up again. It means that the bellows hand is not fully occupied with the bellows and so can play the keyboard, unlike the Indian Harmonium. To buy one is serious money as you can see here. Mind you 8ft pitch organ pipes would not exactly make a portative organ :-) |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:46 PM I have middling-sized computer speakers and that mp3 made them rattle like they were about to fall apart! Some time ago I picked up a bunch of 8-foot-pitch organ pipes out of a skip, thinking I might turn them into Paetzold-type recorders by adding toneholes. I soon realized it wasn't that easy - an organ pipe is voiced to play at only the pitch of the full-length pipe, and it also needs far more air than any human-blown instrument. All I can produce is short sharp honks. They might work as drones if I can make a small blower - computer fans? |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Tootler Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM Tootler: you've got one of those F subcontras. Where are you? If we're ever likely to be in the same place at the same time I could bring my greatbass. [pedant mode] Strictly speaking an F Contrabass. The Subcontra is lower though I believe the Germans call the F Contra a Sub bass. [/pedant mode] Mine is a square one by Paetzold. You can see one here Mine is the larger one on the right. The smaller one is their great bass. They look odd but they make a great sound. They have the full 2 octave range of a recorder with a strong first octave which is what you need with an instrument like that. It is possible to play tunes on them though it is not something you would do everyday. I have taken it to sessions on occasions and basically play oompahs on it. There is an mp3 of mine here. I'm playing a couple of Northumbrian tunes, Derwentwater's Farewell and Johnny Armstrong. I live about 200 miles south of you, Jack, in Middlesbrough. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:15 PM Thanks for those links, Jack. I enjoyed them. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Mar 10 - 09:20 AM I do NOT read Murdochspace. Ever. The samples in their "recordings" page work fine once I enable Flash, though. Nice, albeit the message it leaves with its choice of repertoire is that the recorder is really meant for those Latin types. This Dutch group is maybe a bit closer to mainstream English style: Folkcorn more Folkcorn |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: mattkeen Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:26 AM Thats really weird Jack I am on Firefox too and have just liestened to both Have a look at their myspace site then? |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 10 Mar 10 - 06:38 AM I tried the Radio 3 one - nothing. This was on the latest Firefox so there shouldn't have been a problem. My guess was that the BBC had deleted the programme from their archive. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: mattkeen Date: 10 Mar 10 - 05:23 AM Quoting Jack Campin "The LISTEN link on the Horses Brawl site doesn't work." Yes it does Jack And there are 2 One on the front page bottom left that plays a Radio 3 session and one on the recordings page. Perhaps its your browser? |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 09 Mar 10 - 11:51 AM Nice - the humungous B flat subcontrabass Loeki Stardust have is far bigger, but I couldn't find a video of them making real music with it. Tootler: you've got one of those F subcontras. Where are you? If we're ever likely to be in the same place at the same time I could bring my greatbass. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 09 Mar 10 - 10:56 AM How nice it is to hear from other recorder players. I have instruments from sopranino to bass. Click here to see how big a recorder can get: really big motha (I don't have one that big.) The Flanders Recorder Quartet is noted for its collection of really big recorders like this. One day I heard them do a concert of classical music. For the encore, they played "Moonlight Serenade" on the huge instruments. It was great. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 09 Mar 10 - 08:38 AM The LISTEN link on the Horses Brawl site doesn't work. Meanwhile... David Bellugi playing klezmer on a Renaissance alto recorder |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: mattkeen Date: 09 Mar 10 - 07:48 AM My wife plays traditional Englsih/British tunes on recorders one a descant and also a tenor It was seeing the band HORSES BRAWL, who play an unusual and rather brilliant blend of early music and English traditional tunes |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 08 Mar 10 - 06:35 PM You can make truly huge flutes more easily out of metal: The Subcontrabass Flute It would be tempting to rent one just to freak out an uptight "wooden flutes are the only way" Irish session. It can play fast enough - The Kid On The Mountain would turn into The Kid Down The Mineshaft. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 08 Mar 10 - 06:09 PM The Sub-Contrabass You have to wonder if he got that extra-height part of the ceiling built specially. I've tried an F subbass once - nice tone but not something you can really play tunes on, when every note needs an entire lungful of air. My C greatbass is not too hard to play normal melodies on. The plastic Susato G altos are not that expensive - currently $69. I tried to get Kelischek to make them out of tartan plastic and market them as "The Scottish Recorder" but he didn't get it. The really exotic size in my armoury is a "sopralto" in A with German fingering. No maker's name on it but I think it's from the 1930s. Hindemith's "Plöner Musiktag" trio was written for it (along with soprano and tenor recorders in D, which are still made, at a price). I last used it for playing a Carolan tune in G - I was fingering it as if I was playing it in B flat on a descant, which gave a softer effect because more notes in the scale were crossfingered. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Rowan Date: 08 Mar 10 - 05:43 PM Thanks for that, Tootler; I was losing confidence about my recollection of Contra Basses; I stick to free reeds. Daughter #2 is the (Year 10) recorder player in my family and is aiming for A.Mus.A. later in the year. The New England (Oz version) appears to be the 'recorder-playing capital of Oz' judging by the number of players and the standard of their playing. The local recorder society has a couple of Great Basses but I don't think they yet have a Contra Bass. I'm lucky enough to have the concertina version of each. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Tootler Date: 08 Mar 10 - 05:21 PM Below the Great Bass is Contra Bass in F There are others below that, but they are rare as yet, though there do seem to be one or two playing a C sub contrabass in the Society of Recorder Players. I play an F contra bass. Wonderful instrument with a fabulous tone. Rowan is right. The various C and F instruments are what are nearly always played, certainly among amateurs. Professionals (usually Conservatoire trained) do play instruments pitched in other keys, the most common being the Voice Flute which is a Tenor in D, a tone above the C tenor. It is quite widely used for playing Baroque flute music as the Baroque one key flute was also pitched in D. Jack Campin is fairly unusual as an amateur playing a G alto and I can appreciate his reason for doing so, though he does seem to have a liking for unusual wind instruments. :-) |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Rowan Date: 08 Mar 10 - 04:55 PM Jack's info on recorders in G, while spot on, could mislead novices. The "usual" keys for Baroque recorders as used widely in schools, and the consorts that they produce are (in descending order); sopranino F descant C (also called soprano, in some countries) treble F (also called alto, ditto) tenor C bass F great bass C Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 08 Mar 10 - 07:13 AM This is one of the classic pieces for two recorders in one mouth: Maki Ishii, Black Intention though I prefer the second half, which is just one recorder played with some unusual techniques. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Jack Campin Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:33 PM The sizes of recorder I use most are in G (alto and sopranino). The reason is that I play a lot of Scottish tunes, which often use the pipe scale (nine notes G A B C# d e f# g a). If you play those on a G recorder your fingers will often be in the same places as they would be on a pipe chanter, so they feel more natural. Good G recorders are not cheap, but there are altos and sopraninos from Susato that work okay so long as you don't want to use the very highest notes much - they're good and loud in the range where it counts for Scottish tunes. For a ten-year-old, an alto might be manageable, depends on how big Ava's hands are. It's worth getting used to switching sizes as early as possible, as recorder players do a lot of it. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 21 Jan 09 - 01:18 PM Just for info, the musical alphabet consists of only the first seven letters, but it starts on C rather than A. So it goes: C D E F G A B - then back to C, in a repeating loop If you're going up the scale/staff it goes in the above order. If you're going down the scale/staff it goes backwards, i.e. B A G F E D C On that chart in the link I gave above, the # (sharp) sign next to to the F (F#) means it's halfway between the notes F and G: a little higher than F but a little lower than G. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Marje Date: 21 Jan 09 - 11:55 AM Romany man, one way to learn to read the dots might be to start with tunes you already know. If there's something you can already play and you can get the dots for it (in the same key! -get someone to check this out for you if you're not sure) it could be a way to learn to match the notes you see with the notes you're playing. It's not rocket science, it's fairly straightforward and I think a lot of people imagine it to be more difficult than it is. For a melody instrument like recorder you only need to be able to read single notes (no chords to worry about), and only the treble clef, which keeps it simple. It's not like you're learning to read a score for the church organ - give it a go! Marje |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: wyrdolafr Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:53 AM Nice to see recorders get some praise for a change. I know they've had some flak in some on-line communities which I think is pretty bizarre, to be honest. Piers Plowman wrote: A couple of months ago I bought a recorder and became addicted. I've got a soprano (treble), an alto (descant), and a sopranino and I am sorely tempted to buy a tenor. Then I could be a whole recorder ensemble all by myself, if I could just fit them all into my mouth. A few years ago I saw jazzer Julian Argüelles make a pretty good attempt at doing that! Actually, just a couple (descants I think) but he was simply amazing. |
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Subject: RE: recorder music From: Piers Plowman Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:29 AM I agree about the Aulos recorders. They are definitely a good value for the price. I don't know about the other brands, because I haven't played them. A couple of months ago I bought a recorder and became addicted. I've got a soprano (treble), an alto (descant), and a sopranino and I am sorely tempted to buy a tenor. Then I could be a whole recorder ensemble all by myself, if I could just fit them all into my mouth. It's only taken a couple of weeks to learn the fingerings pretty well and I can sightread on both the C and F instruments without too much hesitation, although I haven't got stuck in learning the alternative fingerings and trills yet. I've bought some recorder music, but have just mostly been playing from my various song books. I find that they mostly go too low for the soprano, but I can play most things on the alto. |
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