BS: Wetherspoons

Subject: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 02:57 PM

There is a new policy regarding Wetherspoons and TV. http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1665096,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 03:05 PM

So they will tolerate the goggle box, but not a couple of good musicians playing live. Says a lot. These are the bastards who took over the Wheatsheaf, the best live music venue in the Potteries, and turned it into a place where very sad people go because the beer is cheap. I don't eat or drink in Wetherspoons, and never will.
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:36 PM

Tim - oh dear, I thought (and was saying in a noisy Youngs pub with loud (recorded) music on Friday) that one good thing about Wetherspoons was you could have a conversation without having to shout. At least they've been consistent about not having music, unlike Humphrey Smith.

There aren't really any chains that encourage acoustic music and song, are there?

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 06:06 PM

I went into a Wetherspoons the other day for the first time, because I had to meet up with family. Quite nice, cheap beer and quiet. But I will never go voluntarily into one otherwise, because,like Mandotim, I loathe the bastards for shutting down the Wheatsheaf, a great venue where I sometimes played and sometimes went to listen to great music.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 06:46 PM

I love Wetherspoons. No bloody pop music when I'm eating, drinking or having a conversation. However, even though the sound will be down, this could be the thin end!

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 08:11 PM

I agree Kitty, there aren't many chains of pubs who encourage live acoustic music. A lot of them encourage Karaoke, piped music and Sky TV though, and the chains are gradually tightening their hold on the UK pub market. Is this really what we want? Or is it another example of the beer industry telling us what we want, as they did with keg beer in the 60's, lager in the 70's and 'theme' pubs in the 80's? What makes Wetherspoons so repellent is their Unique Selling Proposition; Tim Wetherspoon (a New Zealander) based his chain on George Orwell's fanciful and tongue-in-cheek description of an ideal English pub, the famous and wholly fictional 'Moon Under Water'. The assumption is that this non-existent ideal is appropriate in all circumstances, and can be packaged and standardised a la MacDonalds. Aside from the obvious arrogance, this acts against one of the best aspects of English pubs; variety. Rant mode off, back to being the cheerful bloke in the corner with a pint of decent Mild!
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 04:04 AM

My local weatherspoons is so loud and noisy you can't have a normal conversation anyway. and like most it's so big it's like drinking in a feckin warehouse, you never see the same bar staff twice, ie. high staff turnover equals poor working conditions.

None of them know how to pull a decent pint, and the service is so feckin slow that the last three times i've walked out after ten minutes for not getting served.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 04:29 AM

Subject: RE: Minister say's jamming OK in UK
From: The Shambles - PM
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 05:27 AM

I was told by a regular in our local (non music) J.D. Wetherspoons in Weymouth that they have just installed two huge flatscreen TVs.

They also handed me the in-house magazine - which had the following article.

MUSIC
hits the right note.

The Tuesday Bell in Lisburn, has brought music to the ears of its customers. The Northern Ireland pub is now showing music videos on plasma screens. It means that all of the company's outlets in the province now play music.

The pub's manager, Alison McClelland, said; "It is great news for our customers, who love their music."

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 04:45 AM

But you still keep going in apparently!!

I like to have a choice of pubs and I must admit to a sneaking enjoyment in Wetherspoons because of the lack of TV etc.

As far as service etc is concerned it looks to me as if someone makes an effort to train the staff. The beer in the Wetherspoon's in the centre of Sheffield is generally of a very high standard and well-priced.

The building was an unused bank previously and I was not aware that they had taken over a "folk" pub and closed down the music. I shall spend less time and money in them (not a lot anyway) for that reason.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Stu
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:16 AM

Our local Weatherspoons is full of professional drunks getting sloshed and fighting.

Weatherspoons is another nail in the coffin of local pubs selling local small brewery beers. I'll stick with me local who keeps a better pint than that shower could ever hope too.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: GUEST,The Barden of England at work
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:18 AM

This is interesting in that I think it becomes a licenced activity under the Licensing Act 2003 as Shedule 1, part 2, section 8 states:-

Use of television or radio receivers

8    The provision of any entertainment or entertainment facilities is not to be regarded as the provision of regulated entertainment for the purposes of this Act to the extent that it consists of the simultaneous reception and playing of a programme included in a programme service within the meaning of the Broadcasting Act 1990 (c. 42).

So, if they are playing recorded music or video, that must be regarded as a provision of regulated entertainment. Not many Wetherspoon pubs had juke-boxes etc to be able to claim 'Grandfathers rights'.

John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: webfolk
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:26 AM

So that also means, if my interpretation of the new laws is correct, that they can now allow live music under the 'regulated entertainment' section of the law.

From what I understand, all pubs now automatically have a 'regulated entertainments' licence, as part of their licence to sell alcohol, and it is at their own discretion whether they use it or not.

I supspect, therefore, that Wetherspoons chain, did not have such a licence for their premises before, (as the cost of this was above that of a standard licence to sell alcohol) but seeing as it is now included, they are using that to their own, and possibly our advantage.
Perhaps a bit of lobbying of Mr Tim Wetherspoon would be in order to get live music back in his pubs.

Geoff - bit on the side

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:31 AM

We all agree weatherspoons are complete bastards. the foods shite. the whole policy is to encourage folks to get pissed, and by an large its full of demented boozehounds.

of course the tory element will say - well we don't want the nanny state telling us what to do and if people want to do this....and so on.

its a point of view, but i think it's not really fair tempting the unwise in this way.

and, the rest of us have to use the roads and byways after weatherspoons have filled them with the byproducts of their unpleasant profits.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Beardy
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 05:57 AM

I'm afraid this is not 'breaking' news.

The thin edge started last summer when Wetherspoons trialled TV's in some of their pubs during the 2004 European football championships. They admitted then they were chasing the money of that great consumer god of pubs, the footy fan. Once they had opened the door it was always going to happen especially as they have been under pressure from the city for not increasing their profits fast enough. (Although our local Wetherspoons have put up the guest beers from £1.39 to £1.59).

Plus dont forget Wetherspoons own the Lloyds No 1 chain which have always had big screens and TV's.

As Eric said they might not have piped music but it can be bloody hard to have a conversation without shouting when the pub is busy due to the high ceilings.

Personally I have lots of issues with Tim Martin and his company; he often tries to take the moral high ground on matters relating to the trade then backs down as soon as no-one follows his example. He has a warehouse full of 'oversize' glasses which would ensure a full pint that are sitting collecting dust as the Government have been rather reticent in pushing through legislation to protect the consumer. He stated that he would phase in no-smoking throughout his estate when the debate was at its peak yet one of the local Wetherspoons that should have converted to no-smoking in April is still no nearer despite having announced 4 dates when it would begin. Why do they have a policy of advertising the beer you could have drunk if only you'd been in earlier/yesterday. Just turn the pump-clips round! It helps everybody, customer and barstaff. Worst of all he announced to the press that his company are not reponsible for, even in part, for the 'binge drinking' or urban disturbances in town centres. OK you dont see many people under 30 in Wetherspoons at 11pm but thats because they have met up there from 7pm and drunk at low prices for a couple of hours before moving on to disturb other pubs and areas.

As for their bar staff why would they take the time to serve a mature customer with a well pulled pint of real ale that will require topping up when you can open the fridge and hand over a bottle of fizzy vodka to an 18 year old. No wonder Eric left without getting served.

Right nearly opening time I'm off to a decent local boozer.


Stewart

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:46 AM

Wetherspoons have also got a bad attitude to independant breweries, ie. if you want us to buy your beer, we will buy it at OUR price not yours,
this is why up here in Yorkshire Wetherspoons don't sell Timothy Taylor's, Taylor's won't sell on discount [ they don't need to ] and Wetherspoons won't pay the full price.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 12:51 PM

I don't think it is accidental that the football World Cup is due this summer.

From what I understand, all pubs now automatically have a 'regulated entertainments' licence, as part of their licence to sell alcohol, and it is at their own discretion whether they use it or not.

I don't think that uderstanding is quite right. They would certainly need to apply for entertainment permission to provide live music. And as they did not use recorded music before the Act came in - they most probably would need to apply to supply any recorded music.

I suspect that their TVs will be used for the exempt simultaneous reception and playing of a programme.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:19 AM

These huge monopolistic chains are generally bad news. They stifle competition, discourage diversity and only appeal to the lowest common denominator. Still, that's what our god forsaken 'civilisation' seems to want and that's what we're getting in spades. Where will it all end?
In the mean time I will go on avoiding chains (pubs, coffee shops and fast food restaurants) until there are no alternatives left.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: webfolk
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:23 AM

I don't think that uderstanding is quite right. They would certainly need to apply for entertainment permission to provide live music. And as they did not use recorded music before the Act came in - they most probably would need to apply to supply any recorded music.

But it doesn't cost them to apply now!

geoff - bit on the side

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:44 AM

Theres no real reason why a large chain of shops shouldn't be required to act in a civilised manner. Other than I suppose their economic power gives them the means to act like spoiled money grubbing adolescents. People generally get what they want when they're rich.


Perhaps I'm just an old fart. Maybe when I was young, people served me with booze when I was falling down drunk. In fact, I'm sure they did.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Grab
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:31 AM

OTOH, our "local" Wetherspoons serves real ale, usually served well and promptly. Not only is it cheap (due to the buying power of the chain), but it's streets ahead quality-wise of many of the pubs around. And there's no TV or piped music, so you can talk in relative peace (even though there are many other people around you talking in relative peace at volume too! ;-).

Yes, there are better pubs around in the Cambridge area, and the folk clubs we go to use some of them. But there aren't many better pubs in the very centre of Cambridge. Having said that, if they force TV on us then we'll not be going in there again.

As far as Wetherspoons having a "bad attitude" to brewers, I'm sorry Eric but you're dead wrong. Their attitude is the same as every other bulk-buyer: "You can sell to us and have a guaranteed large customer, but at less profit per barrel, or you can sell to smaller customers at a higher profit per barrel and take the risk of not shifting your stuff". Why is expecting lower prices for bulk-buying immoral? And if it is, do you always buy your breakfast cereal in those tiny one-bowl boxes (at some huge markup) instead of in 1-kilo boxes...? ;-)

Yes, it's a shame the Wheatsheaf went. I've been in there a few times and had a damn good time. But there's no compulsion for people to keep things as they were when they buy them - have you not redecorated your house? ;-) In the case of the Wheatsheaf, they basically decided "screw what the existing customers want, we can get different customers by making a completely different type of pub, and make more money that way". That's guaranteed to lose the existing customers, but the pub will make more money. The Wheatsheaf actually wasn't making much money, even though it was a great place for music.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Pied Piper
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:47 AM

I regularly drink in my local Weatherspoons in Eccles and the manager approached me to see if I new any one who could play standards on the organ for the older clients because they now have a music licence. The proverbial flat screen has appeared but it's tuned right down when I'm in the evenings.
I used to drink in a Sam Smiths pub down the way but they put the price of a pint of the cider I drink up from £1.45 to £1.86 so I thought I'd try the Weatherspoons in which I discovered Weston's organic Cider (7.5%!!) for £1.99 a pint. Of cause you have to be careful so I drink it diluted with 50% soda water, which is FREE in JDWs.
There also the only pub using the late licence, all the others are having legal lock-ins shutting the doors at 11pm.

PP

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:12 AM

Grab, it's the same principle as supermarkets putting small shops out of business, they also dictate prices to suppliers.

You must be lucky because in my local Wetherspoons, the beer can be crap and the service is abysmal.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: mandotim
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:38 AM

There is a wider issue here, around the power of a limited number of large players in a restricted market; in former years the Big Five breweries more or less dictated what the UK beer market should be, leading to the horrors of Double Diamond, Watneys Red Barrel and Skol. (Showing my age a little here, perhaps)A further consequence was the takeover and subsequent closure of many of our best small local breweries, leading to a huge reduction in consumer choice Mild almost disappeared completely. Since the flawed legislation that forced the breweries to sell off large parts of their tied estate, the brewing oligopoly has been replaced to a large extent by a pub chain oligopoly. Providing choice to consumers is more expensive than standardisation (generally speaking), and in order to maximise profit all oligopolies will tend to limit choice. The power of these large chains, plus the power of the supermarkets in the off-trade is causing severe problems, particularly for 'middle sized' breweries, as they have sizeable overheads to set against their sales levels. Even some of the big brewers are being squeezed hard, and are making people redundant. There seems to be no notion of 'reasonable profit' in this market: the oligopolies are running unchecked, and beginning to cause carnage in brewing. Wetherspoons are by no means the only culprits, but their policy on live music and nonsensical image of an ideal pub make them particularly abhorrent to me.
Rant mode off again,
Tim from Bit on the Side

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:16 AM

There is a Wetherspoons in Edinburgh that I go to occasionally. There is a very good range of proper beers on, which are almost always well kept, and the service is not at all bad.

No, it's not a proper local pub, and it could never be as like a good local , but it's far better than any other chain pub I've encountered. given its location (rose st/george st), it's the best yuou could hope for.

I've not found it packed with those intent on getting drunk either, anthough that's probably as the cowgate is a natural gutter for them....

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:41 PM

But it doesn't cost them to apply now.

If a pub have got it wrong (this first time) they have a certain period in which to submit a variation. After that they will have to pay again in full for any variation to their Premises Licence.

They would have to pay for a PRS/PPL licence. The proposed increase in this was the reason that Sam Smiths decided on their non-music policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:00 PM

The quality of any branch in a chain depends on the local management. The service in different pubs in the same chain can vary wildly just as the service in banks and supermarkets can.

The only time I have used JDW was for a leaving dring at work. Chosen becasue there was a non-smoking area provided plus food available when we got there at 6, no wait until 7 or 8 in the evening plus no musak. The whole experience was bland but reliable, suitable for the diverse crowd that was there but I have never bothered to go back in one since.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:59 PM

From this thread it is pretty clear that Wetherspoons pubs vary about as much as any other pubs. That's largely because of the way they've mostly gone in for taking over existing buildigs which were previously used for very different activities.

In our case in Harlow they took over the old labour exchange, and it's now a pretty useful sort of pub. One end of the building there's the bar, which is noisy enough at times, but in a pleasant way, with a varied bunch of regulars. Friendly barstaff, who know their job, good beer, and, yes, a flat screen for the footy. Up the other end there is the eating area, with sensibly arranged tables, and a wall full of books you can borrow; and it's quiet enough to be able to read them, or have a conversation. No live music, but then no canned music either. Civilised.

If I compare it with most other chain pubs I've come across, it compares very well, and so do most of the other Wetherspoons I've used. And they all seem pretty different from each other, apart from the rather samey menu, and the low price of the beer.

If I wanted to have a go at modern pubs, there are a whole lot of other targets I'd aim at before getting round to the deficiencies of Wetherspoons.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:26 PM

I started this thread not as a troll but to genuinely garner views and it seems to have worked:-)>

It seems that there are two distinct sides here and I suspect there are a few of us who fall into both camps as I do.

My general experience is on the positive side, and if I am in a strange city centre I tend to look for a Wetherspoons. I have been disappointed (Newport, S.Wales) when I was clearly in for a bad day since my team lost at the Millenium Stadium. I have been genuinely) moderately pleased (the one on Edinburgh as mentioned previously )by someone else) where the beer was good, staff pleasant and food ok).

There is a Wetherspoons in the centre of Sheffield (Bankers Draft) which is dead handy if you are in the area. It sells good beer and
is a hell of a sight better than the derelict bank that was there before. (Anyone seeking decent beer in Sheffield is advised to PM me).

At the same time I can see the socio-economic problems of the beerage and so on........and I agree about the problems of the local shop.

What I find difficult is that in Spain (where I live part of the time)the local shops tend to be less expensive than the supermarkets and the local market in Almunecar beats the "Mercadona" hands down. The choice is smaller but the inexpensiveness is generally true.

And what I also find a little strange is that the lower-priced beers generally speaking, in a Wetherspoons, have done little to bring the price of drinking in City Centre pubs.

And I am sorry when any session closes - but since it seems there were alternatives to the Wheatsheaf it cannot be too bad.

Let's be honest about this, no-one starts a session in a pub which is packed. We all have to go for our sessions (I speak genearally of course) to a pub which is not too busy on whatever night of the week we are able to have the session, and if the beer is all that good why is it empty!!??

I should add that our Morris team has had the same problem.

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 05:22 PM

http://www.thepublican.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=19450&d=32&h=24&f=23&dateformat=%25o%20%25B%20%25Y

JD Wetherspoon is seeking a judicial review after one of its outlets was refused extended hours.

The chain said the issue was of "national importance" after Guildford Borough Council rejected its application for a three-hour extension at its Bridge Street pub.

Clare Eames, legal director for JD Wetherspoon, said that although authorities can designate an area as a "stress area" and apply a cumulative impact policy, this should not act as a presumption against pubs seeking to extend their hours.

"We're not saying that they must extend our hours, but applications should be dealt with on their merits, without this first hurdle," she said. "We want clear guidance from the court on this point because it's an issue of national importance."

Lawyers for Guildford Borough Council said that its policy was both lawful and in line with government guidelines.

The move comes as Stringfellows nightclub last week lost its appeal against Westminster City Council who ruled not to extend its hours.
ENDS

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 07:40 PM

Dave.. Weatherspoons are beer supermarkets yes the beer is cheap but the vast majority have no atmosphere they do serve reasonable quality food but the service is shocking, I do frequent but would rather go elsewhere pubs lke the Kelham, Hillsboro, Fagans and the Red Deer beat Wetherspoons hands down.

Subject: RE: BS: Wetherspoons
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Dec 05 - 07:57 PM

Hi Jim, I agree with you about all those pubs being preferable to Wetherspoons though obviously I do not frequest them as often as you :-)

BUT I was in town centre today panic buying and bumped into a mate doing the same. We nipped into the Bankers for a pint and got two Pale Riders of excellent quality in a packed boozer within moments at about £1.80 a pint.

It was handy. At the other end of town I go to the Cat, Deer, Bath. Further out the Sheaf. And the Fat Cat.

I did go to the Walkley Cottage but I just barred myself. The landlady seems to think dogs buy more beer than people and therefore should have priority.

And there have been others in Sheffield with the same attitude and I didn't drink there either.

I, feel a thread coming on......