Tech: Norton update problem

Subject: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:13 PM

I bought a new laptop in October (Windows XP) which came with two whole months' worth of free Norton AV protection. In December this ran out, so I bought the Norton 2006 upgrade from a shop, installed it successfully from the CD-rom, activated it, did a full scan, rebooted - all as I have done before on my other computers with nary a problem.

But I need to get some live updates, and when I try to log on I get a red alert menu saying that my subscription has expired and it won't download anything. But I BOUGHT the damn upgrade! Its initial installation menu said that I had 366 days left to go on my sub, but something somewhere refuses to recognise this and now I can't get any live updates. I had these expiry notices when the old sub ran out and Norton seems not to realise it's been updated, in spite of my getting all the "successfully installed/activated" messages at every turn. The live update menu does say 2006, and not 2005 so the programme is obviously not confusing the two versions.

I can't take it back to the shop straightaway because it's in the city (Cork) and I live in a farmhouse out in the wilds and won't be back there until after Christmas. I'm just writing in hopes that some of you tecchies out there can offer any suggestions. I've rebooted about a zillion times, turned off the Zone Alarm firewall while trying to access Live Update, scanned - and now I'm all out of things to try.

Can anyone help? Many thanks -

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:40 PM

JohninKansas may be able to help.

Norton worked for a while with me, but I developed problems after an upgrade that they could not seen to help, so I switched to McAfee. After a while, it started to take hours to update or the updates never completed loading. I spent two half days bending ears with their technicians in India, and no solution (the technicians seemed good- their solution would work for a short time, then the same problem again). Although I had months to go on their paid version, I quit.
I have Spyware doctor and Antivir now, and they seem to work well. However, when the paid Spyware Doctor runs out (or sooner), I will get the protection my broadband cable supplier offers (free). No one here in my city seems to be having trouble with protection through this cable service.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:12 PM

Try completely uninstalling Norton, then re-installing the new software.

I had a problem with different software that was resolved by doing this. It might help, and as long as you have the installation disc and documentation, it can't hurt.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 11:32 AM

You're failure most likely is because you didn't register the new purchase at the time you bought it. Since the original version likely was registered, and has expired, they have no way of knowing that you bought a new one.

If you open your Norton and click on Help, you'll find options for registration and for help. I'd suggest going into the registration and entering the new purchase. You will need to "set up an account" and put in a password if you didn't do that previously. Once you've registered the new purchase you shouldn't have a problem, although occasionally a new "subscription date" fails to save properly. Just email them using the link in Norton and it's usually quickly resolved.

When you uninstall a Norton AV version, it leaves a small file that records when your current subscription expires. This is so that you don't lose it if you uninstalled to fix something and reinstall the same version. For a first-time install of a new version, the default (temporary) expiration will be based on the date of installation. When you REGISTER THE PRODUCT with Norton/Symantec the expiration date will be set accurately according to the information you provide at the time of registration.

Installing a new version on a machine where a previous version was used sometimes doesn't reset the expiration date, since the program doesn't know it should change the subscription information. REGISTER the PURCHASE, and all should be well. (And when you set up your account, make a note of username and password for future renewals.)

FOR OTHERS: With current operating systems, some updates can only be installed if the user logged on at the time of update has "Administrator Privilege." If you have an Administrator account on your machine, you should log on as Administrator and run "Live Update" at least monthly, to make sure that nothing that downloaded failed the separate installation step.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 11:37 AM

I had a similar problem when I renewed my NAV, it took a couple of e-mails to their help dept. to sort it out, but they did so eventually.
Giok

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Louie Roy
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:07 PM

I've used Norton for years and have been very satisfied.I purchased a new Systemworks 2006 premium 12-5-05 and din't get around to install it until 12-9-05.I was about halfway through the installation when it hit and error with vague instruction how to use the patch.After exhausting my knowledge I called in a PC tech and it took him over 30 minute to finish loading the disc.Ran the scan live update and all the other necesary garbage and i thought I had a good system,but on 12-12 -05 I went to open one of my drives and it was locked up solid.I called the tech again and after trying all option he went to safe mode and downloaded all files off of that drive onto another drive(I also found before the tech came in that it had locked other web pages even the dictionary)Still in safe mode we uninstalled the Norton disc and all drives and web pages were operatable.I have no idea what is in this disc but if any one else purchases this unit be prepared to experience some problems.There is no doubt in my mind that all the packages will have the same problem.Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:21 PM

Mine suddenly developed this problem half way through the licensing year. After about 2 days it worked again. Never got to the bottom of it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 05:37 PM

Thanks so much everyone for all the helpful input. I have just tried to register, but have not been able to because when I click the Account link in my Norton window, it won't let me Log On, and nowhere else in all the links either on my Norton window or on their main website can I find how to register. (There isn't a "Register" option as such in my Norton menu and the other likely categories, such as Help & Support, all lead me nowhere).

It admits that my sub is good for the upcoming year, it admits that I correctly activated the product, but when I try to Log On in order to register (while I'm already online, via dial-up) it just says You Are Not Connected To the Internet, though I AM. So it won't let me in to set up an account or go through the registration process. I've clicked every link on their website, including the site index, and can find no other way of registering. (Have activated Java & all that...)

This of course is in aid of trying to get my live updates to download and stop telling me my sub is expired & refusing.

I've now spent an hour of phone time chasing this and I'm still no nearer being able to register. Sorry to keep hassling everyone but this is getting unreal. I run a small business from home (rural Ireland) and really need to get this sorted. Thanks again for the useful commentary -

Bonnie :-|

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 08:50 PM

Bonnie - you might look at this in the Symantec KB: Subscription expiration date does not change after installing your Norton program.

(I had a problem with a Norton upgrade in the past, when it seemed to be OK on installation, but Live Update had a series of problems later. It needed the old version uninstalling before installing the new one - Later in the year I saw the boxes had big stickers on saying you must uninstall the previous version first!)

Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 05:19 AM

In my two different versions (on two machines) if you click help, there's a "Registration" button. This will show what versions your machine shows as being installed. If there's a version installed that isn't registered, it should say so. You should be able to click on the unregistered one, and the "Register" button should turn on, to let you click straight to the Symantec Registration website.

There may be some variation with different versions, and of course this is what you get when all the basics are okay.

If you didn't uninstall an old version before installing a new one, your computer may not know what version(s) you have. This will definitely confuse the issue. If that's a possibility, uninstalling all Norton versions, and reinstalling the one you want to use should clear things up.

Registrations and Subscriptions are handled by "nontechnical customer support" which is a bit tricky to locate on the Symantec websites. They seem to rely on the link that should pop up when you install, or the link that pops up when your subscription is about to expire, and assume that otherwise you only need tech help.

At Norton Customer Service there's a button for "trouble with subscriptions" that should include help with resolving registration problems, although I can't offer any guarantees.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM

Are you running any other Symantec programs on your computer? I use the firewall and the NAV, and when I install a new one I uninstall both and then reinstall them. That seems to be the most reliable way to do it because some versions of Symantec programs don't play well together if they arrive at different times. And you may need to disable a firewall or other non-Symantec protection software when you do the installation.

That red LU message is annoying and difficult to get rid of. Try reinstalling any Symantec programs at the same time and it should clear up.

The benefit to uninstalling and reinstalling--sometimes it doesn't remember that it was running before and it extends your expiration date beyond the original one. It doesn't always happen that way, but is a pleasant surprise when it does.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Jim McLean
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 11:19 AM

This might be a silly suggestion but make sure your pop-ups aren't blocked.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 12:13 PM

I had thought of Uninstalling but was scared to try it because it's an upgrade to a Norton that came pre-installed on a new laptop, rather than software I'd bought myself and could re-install. I was afraid I'd nuke some crucial file or other which the upgrade needed. Nowhere on my 2006 upgrade kit does it say to uninstall, but it seems like a good idea. I'll create a Restore Point and try it.

Unblocking the pop-ups is not a silly suggestion at all Jim, though I did think of it ... eventually!

I'll try all the excellent suggestions here - one of them is bound to work. Thanks again for the time you've taken to help me, everyone. Wishing you all a hassle-free holiday season -

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Lanfranc
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 12:35 PM

I've had similar problems with updates from Internet Security 2003 to 2006. I decided that life was too short to struggle endlessly, talking to India for support, obtained a refund from Symantec, installed AVG and Spyware Doctor, and haven't had any problems since.

I had used Norton for years, but had become increasingly fed up with the overhead and the slowness of the updates, so the change has been welcome.

Alan

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 12:37 PM

If your original Norton came with the laptop, there should be a disk included with what you got that will allow you to reinstall everything that you paid for when you got the machine. Some OEMs don't give you the disks. I don't deal with them and would return the machine and demand a refund if they didn't instantly come up with them. (I've done so in the past - once.)

Unfortunately, even if you have the disks, relabeling by the OEM may make it almost impossible to tell which disk the program you want is on.

With WinXP, especially if you're signed up for automatic updates, you may have received an update that includes their AntiSpyware and Popup Blocker. Theres also a "Malware Remover" that comes automatically once a month with mine.

A few sites won't connect you with popups blocked, but if its the Microsoft blocker you should get a banner at the top of the browser window that you can click to say "allow popups for this session only."

I thought I saw a complaint about a "Your machine may not be protected" warning somewhere up above, but perhaps it was another thread. That warning usually comes from the WinXP SP2 firewall update, and you should go to Start|Settings|Control Panel|Security Center and tell them to quit worrying. The setting is something like "I have my own AV program and I promise to keep it up to date."

With a dialup connection, occasionally your browser will revert to "work offline" but will still show you pages that are in Internet Temp storage, so that it looks like you're on line when you're not. Usually there are other clues, but my dialup (my ISP actually) drops connections randomly and fairly frequently, so I know that it does happen. In IE, a click on the "File" button will roll down the menu, and show a check mark by the work offline choice, so it's easy to check.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Helen
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 05:27 PM

Bonnie,

I had a very similar problem with NAV after years of being happy with their product. The problem happened after installing a Windows Update called Windows XP Service Pack. That upgrade killed a lot of things but the Norton was a fiasco. We tried and tried to fix the problem (my hubby is a computer techie) but nothing seemed to work. Hubby uninstalled the XP Service Pack.

Eventually I tried again a year after I purchased the new software. I didn't hold out any hope of getting NAV to work this time. It connected to Symantec, then connected again and downloaded something else, and, ta-da!, it worked. Has been working ever since. I have my full year's subscription dated from the NAV installation date.

One of the things it downloaded was a patch for WinXP, so Symantec obviously knows about the problem. I don't know how you should fix it, except see if you can find someone who can uninstall the WinXP Service Pack, if it is on there, and then try the NAV installation again.

The other WinXP Windows upgrades are okay, but don't allow the Windows upgrades to put on the Service Packs. I always do the custom install option and make sure the Service Pack doesn't install.

Helen

P.S. Harpy Christmas, Bonnie!

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 06:13 PM

While there were a few who had problems with the WinXP service packs when they first were released, most of those problems have been worked through, and you should NOT have a problem with installing the SPs unless you have some SPECIFIC hardware or software that you must use and that is known to conflict. In most cases you'll be better off getting rid of the conflicting (usually obsolete) item and getting the SPs.

Microsoft currently downloads automatic update to MORE THAN 200,000,000 users EVERY MONTH, and you MUST have the service packs installed in order to receive automatic updates for WinXP. That's a pretty strong vote of confidence from the users.

Norton did have a problem when the first big SP was released. It could look pretty big if you weren't expecting it, but actually was not difficult to accomodate. If you had Norton Updates, it was corrected within a week or two of the first distribution of the SP for all Norton AV versions eligible for updating.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Helen
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 02:50 AM

Hi John,

I had up to date NAV but I couldn't do the updates, even if I manually downloaded them and tried to install them. Nothing worked. I gave up trying.

But a year later I tried again and it did work.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 04:13 AM

I must agree with John here - I'd keep the Windows SPs up to date and never uninstall them (XP updates need SP1 or SP2 these days anyway) - too many security problems. I've never had problems with the SPs (I didn't even have problems with a non-clean upgrade from Win98 to XP/Pro - I just did the compatibility run first and them went hunting for the new drivers/software versions it told me I needed and then the upgrade went without a hitch).

I did have to sort out a Norton update problem with the 2005 (IIRC) version on a couple of machines (mine included), where the installation seemed to be fine but Live Update then didn't recognise half of the things to update. It wasn't made clear that the old version had to be uninstalled first before installing the upgrade (an unusual thing for an upgrade - perhaps an oversight on Symantec's part). It took a bit of messing about to fix it (though the Symantec KB was helpful enough). Later in the year I saw they'd added big stickers on the outside of the packages saying "You must uninstall the old version before installing this". When I got the 2006 upgrade (online) it installed with no problems.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 04:34 AM

When your Norton's year subscription comes to an end, my untechnical solution is to uninstall and throw the whole thing in the bin. I have done that with Norton's firewallprogramme and will do the same with the the virus scan when it runs out. Long before the end of the subscription period, you will find your screen bombarded with warnings and reminders and freeze ups. Zap them and they reappear shortly afterwards. Is this a way to treat paying clients? The whole thing behaves like a worm in your computer, which is what it seems to resemble. I have replaced with a McAfee programme which comes free with aol.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Dec 05 - 06:32 AM

dermod -

I had a McAfee that came free with a machine. My main reason for getting rid of it and going back to Norton, aside from consistency with my other machines, was that McAfee has an "ad-sponsored" website as their only contact, and every time I visited their site I had to run both Ad-Aware and Spybot to clear the average of 18 objectionables that McAfee loaded to my machine with each and every visit. Links on their site that were offered as answers to a specific search term you'd entered turned out to be an advertisement for something completely unrelated. Popups were abundant, and some search results took you offsite without warning that you were leaving McAfee's "secure" site. Their AV program is pretty capable. Their website just makes it not worth my time and effort to use it. They claim to be one of the most successful commercial AV suppliers, and the can't afford to run their own support site?

Norton firewall will pop up a notice when malware is detected, and will tell you what it did about it. If you're getting an excessive number of such popups, it just means that Norton is detecting an excessive number of attacks on your system. You probably should find out why you're being attacked, and do something about it; but if you wish, you can turn of the notification feature. All you have to do is RTFM.

Norton will pop up a reminder when a subscription is about to expire. I've never seen any such reminder that did not allow you to elect "don't notify me again" and/or "notify me again in x number of days." If this isn't sufficient, you can change settings to disable all notifications relating to your subscription. All you have to do is RTFM.

If ANY program causes a "freeze up" with WinXP, it usually means that you've screwed up either your WinXP installation/settings and/or the program installation. Usually all you have to do is RTFM. If an obsolete Windows OS freezes up on you, Microsoft has explained that it's a "feature" of the OS.

You may have persistent problems if you've applied options other than the defaults in either your OS or your Norton installation without understanding whether they are appropriate to your individual setup. That means you didn't RTFM at installation.

You may have persistent problems if you've upgraded an older machine to WinXP that doesn't meet the requirements for WinXP, either because of hardware deficiencies or because of incompatible legacy programs. That also means you didn't RTFM at the time of update.

If you're still using a Windows version older than Win2000 or WinXP you have an obsolete and unsupported OS, and there really is no way that Norton or any other add-on programs can provide the kind of protection you should have to be on the web in the current world. If you work at it, you can be reasonably safe; but new threats appear almost daily, and there are numerous ones that can't be reliably defended against by any add-on if you're stuck with an obsolete OS, especially if you expose yourself to attacks by your own web surfing practices. "Safe Surfing" becomes critical.

I've found Norton pretty straight-forward and trouble free, but then I don't have a particularly sophisticated setup or any significantly "deviant" devices or programs. Just a simple ethernet LAN (Workgroup) with 3 to 8 PCs, 3 or 4 printers, a couple of scanners, a half-dozen special purpose USB externals - mostly storage, and a dialup connection. If you've got something complicated, you may have to make adjustments to the default settings in Norton, and you may need to RTFM.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Helen
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 01:12 AM

Symantec recognised problems with Win XP Service Pack 1:


Norton Internet Security or Norton Personal Firewall 2002 and Windows XP Service Pack 1

You applied Service Pack 1 (SP1) for Windows XP (Home or Professional), and now you encounter various problems with Norton Internet Security (NIS), Norton Personal Firewall (NPF), or Norton Internet Security Professional (NIS Pro) 2002.

http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/sunset-c2002kb.nsf/ 46883463d5efbecc85256ee600556cc2/d2f29a7c7d8729b285256ede00518dc1? OpenDocument&src=bar_sch_nam&seg=ag

Norton Internet Security or Norton Personal Firewall 2002 and Windows XP Service Pack 1

Situation:
You applied Service Pack 1 (SP1) for Windows XP (Home or Professional), and now you encounter various problems with Norton Internet Security (NIS), Norton Personal Firewall (NPF), or Norton Internet Security Professional (NIS Pro) 2002.

Solution:
Symantec is aware of this problem, and there is no solution at this time. We will continue to track this problem, and this document will be updated when new information becomes available or a solution is found.

As a workaround, ensure that SP1 for Windows XP (Home or Professional) has already been applied, and then uninstall and reinstall NIS, NPF, or NIS Pro 2002.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 07:03 AM

Sorry Helen, but your link doesn't work because 2002 versions are discontinued and Symantec has removed direct calls to them from the database. Is this from an old record in your files?

(Symantec does provide a way to look at archived documents, but you can't link directly to them, if I understand their system. Anytime you pull an obsolete document from an archive, there is a risk of not getting the latest version.)

The article may be one that was prettty well known at the time of release of SP1. What it says is that your Norton security product may stop working when you install SP1. In a world where everything was right, it would continue to work without further action on your part. This is an "incompatibility," but not a really major one.

The "workaround" suggested is to insure that your SP1 installation is complete, and after SP1 is installed uninstall and reinstall your Norton product.

After you do the additional uninstall/reinstall your Norton product will work.

The only conflict here, with the 2002 Norton products, is that an additional uninstall/reinstall step is required that should not have been needed.

This is not something that happened with all installations, but the workaround did work, according to all reports. I had NAV2002 on one machine when I installed SP1 and it didn't happen to me; but I waited until my SP1 CD arrived since my dialup connection made it "inconvenient" to try to download the SP. By that time, Norton updates may have resolved the problem, a Microsoft pre-SP1 patch may have solved it, and/or one of the notorious "first ten" patches to SP1 had already been applied to SP1 to help with the Norton fix.

A recommended step, often neglected, was to make sure that all prior patches to pre-SP1 were up to date, and a Microsoft patch that "lessened the frequency" of the Norton problem was released for "pre-SP1" machines; but my recollection is that didn't happen until after quite a few SP1 installations were already installed.

I did a "convenience update" to NAV2003 because NAV2002 did not include email scans on all incoming messages if you used the POP3 email protocol. This was true regardless of which OS you had. The email wasn't scanned by Norton until/unless you opened it. Especially if you used the preview feature in OE, this posed a slightly increased risk, so I made the step up, but that was done a while after SP1 installed on my machine without affecting my NAV2002.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Helen
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 07:37 AM

John,

I did a search today on Google for "Windows Xp Service Pack 1" "Norton Anti Virus" and found a number of references to the problem. I then did a search within Symantec for "Windows Xp Service Pack 1" and the data I pasted into this thread came up in one of the pages listed.

My machine had been set for automatic Microsoft upgrades which is why I had the initial "Windows Xp Service Pack 1" when it first came out. After that I set the windows upgrades to custom install so there may have been patches etc but I didn't get anything to fix the problem so I was still struggling to fix it for quite some time.

Symantec was of no use at that time. A year later they had fixed up a patch for it, but it's a long time to go without anti-virus software. They may even have fixed it within the year but they never replied to my email requesting help and certainly didn't let me know there was a patch for the problem.

It was a "hole in the bucket" problem, as I recall. I couldn't get the Norton upgrades or download & install anything including virus definitions so I couldn't fix the problem which prevented me from upgrading or downloading.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 09:26 AM

Helen -

I can sympathize, but from the info available if you had been able to reinstall your Norton after SP1 was in place, you probably wouldn't have had a problem. Of course if you installed from a download, and didn't save an "original and installer" there probably was no good way to get the fix accomplished.

That's one of those kinds of situations that make me stick to my insistence that I have a disk for anything critical that I put on my machines, but of course sometimes that complicates my life too. Sometimes you can download and save the installation file(s) and then execute the installation from your own "original" but I don't know if Norton lets you save an original.

If you still don't have SP1, I would recommend you check to see if you can still get the free CD. They may have one by now that has both SP1 and SP2. Installation from the CD is a lot cleaner than from a download, and once you get at least SP1 in place and working, I believe you can sign up for the autoupdates, and they'll dribble the later ones to you. Of course, it's your machinery, and your choice, but I would recommend that you get the SPs in place. The security improvements are significant.

The latest round of malware may make us all "buy up" to new versions fairly soon. Some AV makers have begun adding "root kits" to their latest versions to detect and block malware root kits, but the "wise ones" in the business haven't yet agreed that this is a good thing. Some are suggesting that the AV rootkits may be more of a hazard to your OS than the malware ones, but I'm not convinced the arguments on either side are "persuasive" yet.

If you get the SPs up to date, and sign up for automatic updates, Microsoft will do an automatic "Malware Remover" run every time it updates (there may be a separate signup for this, and you may need to get their AntiSpyware (Beta) - all free). It's been getting fairly good reviews for effectiveness on a lot of stuff that "isn't viral" and gets missed even by the really good AV and by the "pretty good" AntiSpyware programs.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Helen
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 02:40 PM

John,

I had the NAV on CD, which I had bought. I could install NAV but then it would not allow me to update the virus definitions. I could download the definitions but not install them into NAV, so I was stuck. My hubby tried uninstalling the older version of NAV, uninstalling and reinstalling the new NAV, etc etc. Nothing worked.

I do get the Windows upgrades and install them but I shied off putting the WinXP Service Pack 1 back on again, so I probably never did install it.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 03:45 PM

Possible inspiration(?):

We have the "problem" with our Win2K machine that automatic AV downloads don't always "take." That machine is the "master" for our internet connection sharing, so it's set up with an Administrator Account with strong password. Norton update can't install some updates unless the user logged on at the time of the download has Administrator privileges.

Win XP can be set up the same way, and if you have more than a single user logon it will create an Administrator account and automatically defaults all other users to "lesser privileges." "Power users" - the strongest non-Administrator status - may not be able to install some updates. With a new AV installation, there will almost always be some "program tweaks" with the first - or first few connections, so it's likely that you'll get some install failures or some "only part of it installs" with a new setup, if the Administrator - or the user who installed the program - is not the one logged on.

Once we got things sorted out on the Win2K, virus definitions seem to autoinstall, but anything that changes the AV program requires an Administer login and re-download of the update.

A complication is that if you installed a program while logged on as a specific user, generally that user has authority to change programs he/she instlled, but an update when another user with the same authority is on the machine an update may fail if it includes changes to the program.

We installed the AV under the Administrator account on the Win2K machine specifically so that crudware that attacks the AV itself has to get through the Windows privileges barrier to get to the AV program if a lesser user is on the machine.

Either Win2K or WinXP(pro) does allow for you to script privileges to a program, so that the program can "run as Administrator" regardless of who's logged on; but that gets into more advanced setup, and I haven't bothered.

If you use Norton "Live Update" Norton loads a small file to your machine that can look at what you have and figure out what updates you need. This speeds up the updates, since you only have to down load the specific stuff you need. A "Live Update Installer" also should download, and may be updated occasionally, although you may not notice that it's there. The installer should run automatically as soon as the new data and program files are downloaded. If the current user at the time of the update lacks the authority to make program changes, the installer may fail or may only install part of the update files.

I can't say this is the problem you had, but if you do have an Administrator account, you could try running the Live Update (clicky in Norton) while logged on as Administrator.

A workaround that sometimes works is to let the user most likely to be on the machine install the AV program under that user account logon. This usually will let anything affecting the program be successfully installed as long as that user is logged on. Just be sure to set the "share this program" so that running the AV won't cause permissions problems when someone else is signed on.

Note that all this really isn't a Norton thing - it's a Windows thing, and can pop up in any recent version of Windows, with or without the SP updates. If you've been getting critical updates, you probably have nearly all of what went into the SP packages. The exceptions would be the firewall update and some changes to settings.

WinXP SP1 does reset some permissions requirements, defaults the firewall to on, and adds several other "nice little features" that they neglect to tell you about. One thing I didn't expect is that it blocks sharing the root directory of the system drive with other machines on a local net, which meant we had to move a small number of shared data files into subfolders that could be shared. But it does work for most people, and they've had time now to get to know how to make it less troublesome.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Helen
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 01:44 AM

Yes, we have our own little network between hubby's 2 computers plus server in the shed/garage and mine in the house, so he is the Administrator and that may have been part of the problem. I don't pretend to know anything about the inner workings of computers. I just drive the things for my own purposes and leave the mechanical stuff to hubby - because he is interested in that stuff.

I was very disappointed when NAV came to a dead halt and more excited/gratified than is really warranted when it finally did its thing a year later.

Helen

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Helen
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 02:55 PM

BTW, John, thanks for your input on this. I appreciate our insights on the mysteries of techie-land. :-)

Helen

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 04:29 PM

Helen -

It's a lot more fun than just talking to myself. When I do that I never understand my answers.

You should hear some of the questions I ask me.

And you don't want to hear some of the ones she asks me.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 08:36 PM

You could always do what I did.

Kick NAV into touch, and download AVG free antivirus.

It found a number of viruses on my PC that NAV had missed, and, after three years, I have yet to experience any new virus problems.

I still use Systemworks 2003 for other purposes, entirely without trouble.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Stewart
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 03:36 PM

Another damn aggravation from Norton. After trying unsuccessfully to renew my anti-virus and firewall subscriptions without buying a new program (my program was only a year old) I got disgusted with Norton and removed all their software from my computer, and went with AVG.

Now my wife's computer firewall subscription from Norton is soon to expire, and we will then switch to AVG also for her computer.

BUT, yesterday I got an email from Norton saying that they would automatically renew the Norton firewall subscription and bill my credit card for $29.99 unless I opt out within 9 days. To opt out I need to go to my personal page on Norton's web site, but to do that I need my password (which of course I couldn't find). So I clicked on the "forgot password" link and was told I would receive a new password by email. But it never came. From past experience, I know it is impossible to communicate with Norton (phone support gives you a person in India who doesn't speak or understand english, and email support gives canned replies which don't address your question).

So what to do? I finally found after much searching my forgotten password and was able to enter into my personal page and opt out (I hope!). Later I found that their emailed password got shunted into my spam filter file as spam).

That's got to be a great scam - charge you credit card (which information they still have) to something you don't want, and make it as difficult as possible to opt out. Another reason to have nothing to do with Norton!

So there, got that off my chest - rant, rant!

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 04:00 PM

That hardly sounds legal - I would report it to my credit card company as sharp practice (tell them everything you've told us). They do take an interest in that sort of thing. I don't think Norton can just keep using your number unless you have authorised them to. (Did any of the small print in the user's license agreement set it up as some sort of standing order?) Any US lawyers out there?

Otherwise tell your credit card company to decline their charge.

Yours in sympathy & support -

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 04:19 PM

Norton has difficulties on a number of fronts when it comes to updates. I've found that sometimes uninstalling all of the Norton products (go through the Control Panel and Add/Delete Programs to do this) then reinstalling them solves the trouble. An older neighbor of mine calls every year to have me help her update her program. Sometimes we do this, sometimes we don't.

The thing that is easiest is to watch the ads for sales. Norton products are regularly offered down here with update rebates and store rebates. I often find it cheaper to buy a new box and install it and mail in my rebate coupons. I can sometimes get it for free, other times it comes out about $20.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Stewart
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 04:45 PM

Yes, I just looked at the Norton web page, and their price for a subscription renewal (if in fact you can do it, they make very difficult and even hide the renewal link in the smallest type possible) is $19.99 versus the $29.99 they were going to charge me for automatic renewal - no thanks!

When I ordered a renewal for my anti-virus last year, I found that the key they sent me didn't work. When I emailed support, they told me to do exactly what I had just told them I did that didn't work. I then cancelled their charge to my credit card - my credit card company was very obliging. That's when I decided to have nothing more to do with Norton. So if they do charge me again, I will get my credit card company to cancel as before, and also to refuse any further charges from Norton.

Oh and further, they said in their email informing me of automitic renewal - "However, cancelling the auto renewal feature will leave you at significant risk of becoming unprotected from the latest security threats. Also, please note that you must turn off the auto renewal feature by November 27, 2006 to avoid the automatic charge." Is that some sort of protection racket worthy of the Mafia?

What a bunch of scum-bags!

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 07:59 PM

I had hassles trying to update AVG from 7.1 - many times each update till I eventually gave up - finally they recently sent an auto update popup advice that 7.1 is no longer to be supported as of 2007.

So I had another go, and Lo! version 7.5 installed without hassle.

Lots of nice new things like being able to look at Mailwasher downloads, etc.

So look at AVG 7.5 - free version.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 08:06 PM

AVG Free is excellent - and now they've added Anti-Spyware (a separate utility at the moment). You have to ferret through the website to find the free version, though...

Do be careful if installing or updating to v7.5, as other software may conflict - I had to disable Webroot's Spysweeper before AVG 7.5 would successfully install and update.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: woodsie
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 09:04 PM

Norton came with my laptop too. I uninstalled it and replaced it with AVG free.

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Nov 06 - 09:51 PM

As an old mate of mine was wont to say , I wouldnt Piddle on Norton , if they were on fire !

Subject: RE: Tech: Norton update problem
From: GUEST,william connaughton
Date: 05 Feb 07 - 05:20 PM

my internet security program is installed. 44 days left .reactivate same