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Lyr Add: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow (La Farge DigiTrad: Now I will tell you "busters" THE BALLAD OF IRA HAYES THE SENECAS (AS LONG AS THE GRASS SHALL GROW) Related threads: Lyr Add: Drums (Peter LaFarge) (1) Peter LaFarge (20) |
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Subject: Lyr Add: AS LONG AS THE GRASS SHALL GROW (f/J Cash From: Gene Date: 18 Jan 99 - 02:44 PM AS LONG AS THE GRASS SHALL GROW Words and music by Peter La Farge As recorded by Johnny Cash on "Bitter Tears" (Columbia CL-2248, 1964) CHORUS: As long (as long) as the moon (as the moon) shall rise (as the moon shall rise), As long (as long) as the rivers (as the rivers) flow (as the rivers flow), As long as the sun will shine, As long (as long) as the grass shall grow. The Senecas are an Indian tribe of the Iroquois nation. Down on the New York-Pennsylvania line, you'll find their reservation. After the U.S. revolution, Cornplanter was the chief. He told the tribe these men they could trust; that was his true belief. He went down to Independence Hall and there a treaty signed That promised peace with the U.S.A. and Indian rights combined. George Washington gave his signature; the government gave its hand. They said that now and forevermore that this was Indian land. CHORUS On the Seneca Reservation, there is much sadness now. Washington's treaty has been broken and there is no hope, nohow. Across the Allegheny River, they're throwing up a dam. It will flood the Indian country--a proud day for Uncle Sam. It has broke the ancient treaty with a politician's grin It will drown the Indian graveyards. Cornplanter, can you swim? The earth is smothered to the Senecas; they're trampling sacred ground, Changed the mint-green earth to black mudflats as honor hobbles down. CHORUS The Iroquois Indians used to rule from Canada way south, But no one fears the Indians now and smiles the liar's mouth. The Senecas hired an expert to figure another site, But the great good army engineers said that he had no right. Although he showed them another plan and showed them another way, They laughed in his face and said: "No deal; Kinzua Dam is here to stay." Congress turned the Indians down, brushed off the Indians' plea, So the Senecas have renamed the dam; they call it Lake Perfidy. CHORUS Washington, Adams, and Kennedy now hear their pledges ring. The treaties are safe; we'll keep our word, but what is that gurgling? It's the backwater from Perfidy Lake; it's rising all the time Over the homes and over the fields and over the promises signed. No boats will sail on Lake Perfidy; in winter, it will fill. In summer, it will be a swamp and all the fish will kill. But the government of the U.S.A. has corrected George's vow. The father of our country must be wrong; what's an Indian, anyhow? CHORUS: As long (as long) as the moon (as the moon) shall rise (as the moon shall rise), Look up! As long (as long) as the rivers (as the rivers) flow (as the rivers flow), Are you thirsty? As long as the sun will shine, My brother, are you warm? As long (as long) as the grass shall grow. Johnny Cash Studio Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwhlI5Rj0-U Johnny Cash live performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQq0dw7rmtc Gillian Welch & Dave Rawlings Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g98VnKORRpk Click for related thread |
Subject: ADD: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow (La Farge) From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Dec 16 - 04:40 PM "As long as the grass shall grow and rivers flow" and similar language was used in reference to Indian treaties made by the U.S. Government. I have not been able to find this language in any of the treaties I have read, but popular writing of the time does use the language. Thread #41907 Message #606906 Posted By: Joe Offer 09-Dec-01 - 07:14 PM Thread Name: Lyr Req: Talking Kinzua Dam Subject: Lyr: SENECAS (AS LONG AS THE GRASS SHALL GROW)^^
Gene posted the Johnny Cash version of this song a couple of years ago, but I think this may be closer to the original. I guess it's not the song requested, but it's certainly related. |
Subject: ADD: The Indian Prayer (Indianee) From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Dec 16 - 04:50 PM There's another song on this theme in the Rise Again Songbook. It's called by various names, and the lyrics vary greatly from one recording to the next. In the songbook, we tried to honor the original Mousaa version while including the best of the other versions. I can't find my transcription of the Mousaa version. A link to his performance is below. Feel free to transcribe it and post it here. Here's the version from the Emma's Revolution Website: THE INDIAN PRAYER (INDIANEE) ©1974 Victor Roland Mousaa Tom Pacheco Loesser Music As long as the sun shall glow As long as the stream shall flow As long as the wind shall blow As long as the grass shall grow This land, this land shall be Indanee As long as the bird shall sing As long as the deer shall spring As long as the whale's swimming As long as their lives shall be This land, this land shall be Indanee As long as the baby's small As long as our children grow tall As long as our elder's recall As long as this earth shall call This land, this land shall be Indanee Source: http://www.emmasrevolution.com/listen/album/hands/2-indanee/ Performance by Roland Mousaa (lyrics are somewhat different): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5AkdKadKiA Richie Havens performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TME9VWLovCA |
Subject: RE: ADD: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow & Indianee From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Dec 16 - 05:19 PM The LaFarge song indicates that George Washington signed a treaty with the Seneca Nation with language similar to "as long as the grass shall grow and rivers flow." I understand similar language was used in the Treaty of Fort Laramie in 1851, and the Treaty of Medicine Lodge with the Sioux in 1867. I haven't been able to find texts of these and other treaties with this language. Can anybody find them? -Joe- Here's the Treaty of Fort Laramie Here's a whole library of Indian treaties: http://digital.library.okstate.edu/KAPPLeR/Vol2/toc.htm It would be nice to be able to document original sources of this "grass shall grow and rivers flow" language. I see references to it all over, but no original sources. Could this be an early example of "false news"? The Indian treaties I've read sound like treaties - no poetic language in them. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: ADD: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow & Indianee From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Dec 16 - 09:15 AM Any historians here? |
Subject: RE: ADD: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow & Indianee From: GUEST,Phil D.Conch Date: 18 Dec 16 - 11:30 AM Have you located the phrase in any Indian treaties yet? I thought it came from Cooper's Littlepage series which was more about Euro-American farm leases in the Hudson Valley. I don't think he ever used it in relation to the local tribes/treaties (???) |
Subject: Lyr Add: AS LONG AS THE GRASS SHALL GROW (Scofield From: Stewart Date: 18 Dec 16 - 12:27 PM Here's another related song AS LONG AS THE GRASS SHALL GROW by Twilo Scofield, 1977 Sung by Sally and John Ashford From a live "Apple Jam" concert in Olympia, WA on Sept. 9th, 1978 As long as the sun will shine As long as the rivers may flow As long as the moon will rise And as long as the grass shall grow We first knew you as the feeble tree That needed a place to grow We could have trod you under our feet But we taught you the ways that we know Good words and broken promises You gave us and we trusted you You came to live in peace you said And that's all that we wanted too As long as the sun will shine… You lit our lodges for your campfires In the ashes left dust and blood We thought half our land would satisfy you But we found out that it never would You left us like birds with broken wings All scattered like stones on the ground But in silent fields and pathless woods Our dreams and our spirits are found As long as the sun will shine… For we have known when the forests were free And the wind spirits roamed our land And everything that we needed for life We took with a gentle hand Now the sky is round and the earth is round And the sun and the stars and the moon The seasons all move in a circle too And our spring will come again soon As long as the sun will shine… From Washington Songs and Lore – Linda Allen, p.119: "Twilo Scofield wrote 'As Long As The Grass Shall Grow' in 1977 after reading Touch the Earth by T. C. McLuhan. The book contains speeches given by Native American tribal leaders. The verses are paraphrased from speeches given by Nez Perce Chief Joseph, Red Jacket of the Seneca, Ten Bears of the Comanche, Seattle of the Duwamish, and Dan George, hereditary chief of the Coast Salish, among others." Twilo Scofield, the granddaughter of an Oregon homesteader, a teacher of folklore, musician and author, lived in Eugene, OR. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
Subject: RE: ADD: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow & Indianee From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 18 Dec 16 - 12:29 PM Exact quote is a bit different: "...and I sincerely hope this neck of the land will continue to go by its old appellation as long as the House of Hanover shall sit on the throne of these realms; or as long as water shall run and grass shall grow." [Satanstoe; from the Littlepage Manuscripts, A Tale of the Colony, Cooper, James Fenimore, (New York: Burgess, Stringer, 1845, p.12)] |
Subject: RE: ADD: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow & Indianee From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 18 Dec 16 - 12:54 PM "Each tribe or band shall have the right to posses, occupy, and use the reserve allotted to it, as long as grass shall grow and water run, and the reserves shall be their own property like their horses and cattle."* Article 5 of the Confederate States of America Treaty with the Comanches and Other Tribes and Bands, 12 August 1861. *The expression "so long as grass shall grow and water run" appears in eight out of nine Confederate States treaties with these tribes: it is absent from the text of the Treaty with the Cherokees. http://treatiesportal.unl.edu/csaindiantreaties/index.html |
Subject: RE: ADD: As Long as the Grass Shall Grow & Indianee From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 18 Dec 16 - 06:11 PM There are earlier citations for Presidents Monroe and Jackson and Senator Houston but, so far, it's unrecoverable speeches, letters &c quoted third-hand, much after the fact. No treaties at all. One thing that seems universally lacking in the academic discussion of "how long is that?" is the ultimate source of the expressions (and wind, water and grass ftm.) One would think it be Psalms: "Sing unto the Lord with thanksgiving, sing praise upon the harp unto our God: Who covereth the heaven with clouds, who prepareth rain for the earth, who maketh grass to grow upon the mountains. ...he causeth the wind to blow, and the waters to flow." [147: 7-8, 18] Taken in context it means less "forever & ever" than a somewhat more humble B'ezrat HaShem, Inshallah, Lord willing and the Creek don't rise &c. |
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