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BS: Where's the Global Warming
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:03 AM This discussion is reminding me of the scene in "Life of Brian" where the committee needs to make a unanimous decision as to what action will be taken to help Brian, captured by the Romans, and on his way to be crucified. They fart about for ages, then issue a 'strongly worded politically correct statement', but actually DO nothing... this is the scene with "What have the Romans done for us?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Bunnahabhain Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:42 AM The West, at the moment, is the only area that can afford to develop large scale clean energy sources that actually work. If we do so, and start using them, then not only do we cut our emmisions, we then have proven technology to sell to the developing world. Lets take China as an example. The projected health care bills due to the air pollution from their dirty coal powered industry make the US national debt look sensible. How many million will have to die there before the pressure to switch to cleaner power becomes irresisitable? I don't know, but it will happen, and sooner than many people think. Even if they rip off every patent on the clean technology, then the West still benefits, by having New York and London above sea level. So does Bangladesh... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Old Guy Date: 18 Oct 06 - 01:17 PM "We can't do anything about an asteroid strike" Oh yeah? http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn9063.html ...Various plans have been put forward to deflect incoming asteroids. For example, lasers or giant space mirrors could evaporate ices on their surfaces, creating jets that propel them away from Earth. And half-painting an asteroid could make it radiate heat differently on each side, slowly nudging the object off course... Who is going to make the Barbara Striesands and John Travoltas of the world park their private jets (Travolta has 5) and drive a Civic? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Old Guy Date: 18 Oct 06 - 01:24 PM Who is going to stop cows from farting and force termites to retain their methane? http://www.windows.ucar.edu/physical_science/chemistry/methane.html ...Although the concentration of methane in Earth's atmosphere is small (around 1.8 parts per million), it is an important greenhouse gas because it is such a potent heat absorber. The concentration of methane in our atmosphere has risen by about 150% since 1750, apparently largely due to human activities. Methane accounts for about 20% of the heating effects by all of the greenhouse gases combined. Both natural and human sources supply methane to Earth's atmosphere. Major natural sources of methane include emissions from wetlands and oceans, and from the digestive processes of termites. Sources related to human activities include rice production, landfills, raising cattle and other ruminant animals (cow burps!), and energy generation.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Don Firth Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:04 PM So Old Guy is perfectly willing to sit back complacently and "let technology save us." Where have we heard that before? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: GUEST,TIA Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:18 PM Once again, if we can't get EVERYBODY to help, we might as well let the poor bastard drown. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Bill D Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:44 PM Well, at least Old Guy's continuing list of "Oh, yeahs?" is a good way to have all the usual complacent and stereotyped objections to the warnings in one place, so that some of us can answer them, leaving food for thought for those who wander in. Ahem...the asteroid deflection ideas are WAY in the theory stage so far,(I hope they DO come up with a good one!) but there are LOTS of ways to reduce Ozone depletion and greenhouse gas emissions, etc. already. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Old Guy Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:46 PM One thing I am doing to save energy is replacing my lightbulbs with Compact Florescents that use less than 1/4 of the electricity of incandescent bulbs. You can buy a 6 pack of 60 watters for less than $10 at Home Depot. They consume only 14 Watts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Old Guy Date: 18 Oct 06 - 02:58 PM "there are LOTS of ways" All I want to know is who is going to enforce those "ways" to have a sufficient effect to reverse global warming. There are lots of ways to prevent drug abuse, auto accidents etc. Have they been prevented? Have they even been reduced? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Bill D Date: 18 Oct 06 - 03:10 PM The light bulb bit IS one very good way you can help...and save money. I am doing that myself. As to enforcement, most of us can do little but VOTE for those who promise to do the enforcement! Of course it is hard to get people to change long established habits..especially when $$$$ are in the way of sense..(pun intentional). Education will help....if enough people KNOW what needs to be done, the idiots who refuse to pay attention 'may' get out voted....if there's enough time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: GUEST,Al Gore Date: 18 Oct 06 - 03:15 PM I blew a fart and started it all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: GUEST,ibo Date: 18 Oct 06 - 05:02 PM I know,i smelt it |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Don Firth Date: 18 Oct 06 - 06:31 PM Seattle City Light gave bunches of those 14 watt bulbs free to any customer who wanted them. Seattle is a fairly (excuse the expression) progressive city. And ". . . who is going to enforce those 'ways' to have a sufficient effect to reverse global warming[?]" Well, certainly not the Bush adminstration. So--save a planet--work for regime change! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: GUEST,TIA Date: 18 Oct 06 - 09:12 PM OG - I am truly (no sarcasm, honest) grateful that despite your rhetoric, you are actually doing things to alleviate climate change. Thank you. From me and my kids. BTW, auto accident injuries HAVE been reduced thanks to seatbelt laws. And I, for one think that even if there are a few people who don't wear seatbelts, we should still all be required to wear them. Remember, some of us will try to save the drowning swimmer even if others stand around and watch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 18 Oct 06 - 09:21 PM "who is going to enforce those 'ways' to have a sufficient effect to reverse global warming" Think Globally, Act Locally. What have YOU done? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Old Guy Date: 18 Oct 06 - 10:48 PM I think the CF bulbs should cost less than the incandescents. Either lower the CF or jack up the Incandescents. Why not a tax on the gas hogs that makes the price of a hybrid look more attractive. Some people would like to have a hybrid but they can't afford the extra cost. "Where have we heard that before" I don't know Don, where have we heard that before? You know who will certainly not so you must you know who certainly is. So who is going to enforce those ways? Also you can get 6 packs of 40 watt CFs for less than $10 at Home Depot. They use 9 watts of electricity. Compact flourescents are a product of technology that will help the environment. I am willing to let that happen, Does Don have a different plan for us to follow? The next technological step forward is Cold Cathode bulbs which are more efficient than CFs. Beyond that are LED bulbs. Is it OK if we just sit back and let these things happen Don? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Don Firth Date: 18 Oct 06 - 11:47 PM Lot's of people, particularly polluting manufacturers and the politicians they buy off, say that a lot. "Don't worry about it. Advancing technology will save us." And then automobile manufacturers, for example, go right on making and and selling SUVs and other gas-guzzlers and complain that it would cost too much to try to procuce more fuel-efficient vehicles. No advancing technology from that quarter if they can help it. Sit back and wait for these things to happen? No, I think we should insist on it. It's called "consumer demand." Businesses are often responsive to that. especially if you make it plain that you won't buy their products unless they make something you want, you'll buy from someone who already does, or managed to make do with what you already have. A tax on gas hogs sounds like a good idea to me. And how about a tax credit for buying a hybrid? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Old Guy Date: 19 Oct 06 - 12:12 AM Credit for Taxpayers Who Purchase or Lease Hybrid Vehicles or Other Alternative Motor Vehicles The tax credit for hybrid vehicles, which was enacted by the Energy Policy Act of 2005, may be as much as $3,400 for those who purchase the most fuel-efficient passenger automobiles and light trucks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: DougR Date: 19 Oct 06 - 01:40 AM I don't know where it is, but it darn sure isn't in the Buffalo NY area where they endured one of the earliest snow storms in history this past week. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Don Firth Date: 19 Oct 06 - 01:40 PM I think we've already covered that, Doug. Read the thread before you post. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Greg F. Date: 19 Oct 06 - 05:59 PM Aw, c'mon, Don- that takes all the fun out of it for ol' Douggie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: DougR Date: 19 Oct 06 - 07:54 PM Gee, Don, whatever would I do without you to guide me in curbing my errant ways? I'm just so grateful. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 19 Oct 06 - 08:04 PM What? putting a bit of your own turbulence in there Doug? :-P |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Don Firth Date: 19 Oct 06 - 09:40 PM Always glad to be of help, Doug. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: GUEST,TIA Date: 20 Oct 06 - 10:31 AM Got to thinking about the Global Warming/Buffalo snowstorm thing (and similar ideas way up thread). So, I watched a lot of FOX News last night, and darned if my method of thinking isn't starting to be corrected. Works like a dream. For instance, there is no world hunger problem -- I saw a whole bunch of chubby people on my way to work this morning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Oct 06 - 10:58 PM TIA - you've been out-Foxed... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Old Guy Date: 20 Oct 06 - 11:09 PM DougR: Be careful. You will get drawn and quartered by the fanatics here if you hint that there is no global warming. Though out in Colorado, they had the earliest opening of the ski slopes ever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 20 Oct 06 - 11:28 PM There is of course, Old Guy, DougR, no Global Warming locally where you are, yet... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: TIA Date: 21 Oct 06 - 12:17 AM And, what's all this fuss about deforestation? I've got a whole bunch of trees right here in my yard. My how much easier thought is now that I understand the way evidence works. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Greg F. Date: 21 Oct 06 - 09:44 AM Fanatics sez Fat Old Woody? Ya gotta love this guy, dontcha? Even most of the worst of the right wing loonies don't attempt to argue with the overwhelming scientific evidence that the phenomenon of "Global warming" is established fact. What they choose to question, for ideological reasons, are the CAUSES of global warming, i.e. they like to deny (again in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence) that human activity and "greenhouse gasses" and the burning of fossil fuels contribute to it. Poor Fat Old Woody doesn't even begin to comprehend the Party Line he's supposed to be spouting! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Bunnahabhain Date: 21 Oct 06 - 10:07 AM It's not their fault anthropogenic is such a long and difficult word.. Questioning the causes of the current climate change is the only way they can make the case for doing nothing. It's such a complcated system, with so many feed-back loops, that any short( short enough for TV) and honest answer to 'What's happening' will have probably and we think scattered throughout it. The enviromental records for the last few Glacial cycles (Not ice ages, we are in an ice age right now, which is composed of several glacial periods( much ice), and interglacials, like now (less ice)) is less than perfect, so trying to figure out what is happening to the satisfaction of scientists, let alone the absolute proof required to convince those who don't want to see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Alice Date: 21 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM TIA, lol, thanks for making me smile! Yup, that old Fox "programming", just program your thinking to make scary facts go away. Such as, there can't be world hunger, those African babies on tv have round tummies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: GUEST,Old Fat Woody Date: 21 Oct 06 - 02:24 PM Will Dear Leader Greg Jong-il please point out where anyone here said global warming does not exist? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: TIA Date: 21 Oct 06 - 04:26 PM LOL. Wots the titul of this thred? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 21 Oct 06 - 08:01 PM Whatever the Moderators want it to to be! Oh no - did I say that?... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Sawzaw Date: 05 Jul 09 - 09:26 AM Why did the EPA smother a scientific report that questioned global warming? Why is the EPA suppressing this global-warming report? EPA May Have Suppressed Anti-Global Warming Study NASA Astronaut Dr. Buzz Aldrin rejects global warming fears |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: DougR Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:05 PM Guest Old Fat Woody: Perhaps no one has posted that global warming does not exist, but this poster confesses to having doubts. At least I think it is questionable. It seems that there are many other reputable scientists who also question the evidence too. The mainstream press (other than the Wall Street Journal) has kept the lid on the fact that one of the leading scientists at the Environmental Protection Agency, Alan Carlin, (who holds a degree in physics from CalTech)along with another colleague at the EPA presented a 98 page analysis to the agency recently arguing that the agency should take another look, as the science behind man-made global warming is inconclusive at best. The analysis noted that global temperatures were on a "downward trend". It pointed out problems with climate models. It highlighted new research that contradicts apocalyptic scenarios. "We believe our concerns and reservations are sufficiently important to warrant a serious review of the science by EPA", the report read. Carlin and the report were blown off by his superiors at the EPA, who in my opinion, are bent on charging full speed ahead probably because the research money from the federal government and private foundations would dry up if the global warming scare was proven to be a hoax. One that would exceed even the scandal generated by Bernie Madoff. Anyone interested can Google the WSJ and read the whole column titled, "The EPA Silences a Climate Skeptic," in the Friday/Saturday/Sunday edition of the Wallstreet Journal (July 3 -5, 2009)by staff writer, Kimberley A. Strassel. I Expect few here will do so. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: pdq Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:32 PM Democrats Refuse to Allow Skeptic to Testify Alongside Gore At Congressional HearingThursday, April 23, 2009 By Marc Morano 'House Democrats don't want Gore humiliated' Washington, DC -- UK's Lord Christopher Monckton, a former science advisor to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, claimed House Democrats have refused to allow him to appear alongside former Vice President Al Gore at a high profile global warming hearing on Friday April 24, 2009 at 10am in Washington. Monckton told Climate Depot that the Democrats rescinded his scheduled joint appearance at the House Energy and Commerce hearing on Friday. Monckton said he was informed that he would not be allowed to testify alongside Gore when his plane landed from England Thursday afternoon. "The House Democrats don't want Gore humiliated, so they slammed the door of the Capitol in my face," Monckton told Climate Depot in an exclusive interview. "They are cowards." According to Monckton, Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas), Ranking Member on the Energy & Commerce Committee, had invited him to go head to head with Gore and testify at the hearing on Capitol Hill Friday. But Monckton now says that when his airplane from London landed in the U.S. on Thursday, he was informed that the former Vice-President had "chickened out" and there would be no joint appearance. Gore is scheduled to testify on Friday to the Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment's fourth day of hearings on the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009. The hearing will be held in 2123 Rayburn House Office Building. According to Monckton, House Democrats told the Republican committee staff earlier this week that they would be putting forward an unnamed 'celebrity' as their star witness Friday at a multi-panel climate hearing examining the House global warming bill. The "celebrity" witness turned out to be Gore. Monckton said the GOP replied they would respond to the Democrats' "celebrity" with an unnamed "celebrity" of their own. But Monckton claims that when the Democrats were told who the GOP witness would be, they refused to allow him to testify alongside Gore. [ Update: 1:55 PM EST: A GOP House source told Climate Depot that the Democrats on the Committee said "absolutely not" to allowing Monckton to appear during today's Gore hearing. The GOP committee "pushed at multiple levels" to bring Monckton in to testify but the Democrats "refused," according to the GOP source. Former GOP House Speaker Newt Gingrich was called in to testify after Monckton was rejected by the committee Democrats, according to the Congressional source.] "The Democrats have a lot to learn about the right of free speech under the US Constitution. Congress Henry Waxman's (D-CA) refusal to expose Al Gore's sci-fi comedy-horror testimony to proper, independent scrutiny by the House minority reeks of naked fear," Monckton said from the airport Thursday evening. "Waxman knows there has been no 'global warming' for at least a decade. Waxman knows there has been seven and a half years' global cooling. Waxman knows that, in the words of the UK High Court judge who condemned Gore's mawkish movie as materially, seriously, serially inaccurate, 'the Armageddon scenario that he depicts is not based on any scientific view,'" Monckton explained. Monckton has previously testified before the House Committee in March. (See: Monckton: Have the courage to do nothing...US Congress told climate change is not real ) Monckton has also publicly challenged Gore to a debate. (See: Al Gore Challenged to International TV Debate on Global Warming By Lord Monckton - March 19, 2007 ) A call to the Democratic office of the House Energy and Commerce Committee seeking comment was not immediately returned Thursday night. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Alice Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:35 PM I don't know why you'd expect that, Doug. Most mudcatters seem to be people who search to find information and try to look at all sides. I googled it, found chain emails referencing it, blogs linking to it, and this page on the American Bar Association web site. http://www.abanet.org/statelocal/lawnews/summer07/mass.html Alice |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Noreen Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:37 PM Climate change is NOT a party political issue- it is an observed, recorded fact and has to be planned for and dealt with. Scoring petty party political points merely produces more hot air (and CO2!) and signifies nothing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Alice Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:39 PM btw, I googled "The EPA Silences a Climate Skeptic". The American Bar Association link was on the 19th page of google results. Guess I'm just a news junkie, or inquiring minds want to know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: pdq Date: 05 Jul 09 - 06:01 PM ...from the article Alice in Montana cited: "If anyone is keeping a scorecard of the winners and losers in this case, without a doubt, the climatologists who have been trying to warn the general public and policymakers for years about the seriousness of global warming must feel vindicated. They are the big winners, as we all are. One can almost see Justice Stevens giving an approving nod to James Hansen, the director of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, when he begins the opinion: A well-documented rise in global temperatures has coincided with a significant increase in the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Respected scientists believe the two trends are related. For when carbon dioxide is released into the atmosphere, it acts like the ceiling of a greenhouse, trapping solar energy and retarding the escape of reflected heat. It is therefore a species—the most important species—of a 'greenhouse gas.'" John Paul Stevens is an 89 year old senile lawyer who has no background in this subject. Lecturing the knowledegeable folks in the science community is as silly as truck driver lecturing judge Stevens about constitutional law. BTW, CO2 is about 370 parts per million in the atmosphere and is therefore of little consequence compared to H2O, another "greenhouse gas". So, BAN WATER Mr. Stevens, as long as you are being so silly. Or at least declare it "pollution" it and be consistent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: pdq Date: 05 Jul 09 - 07:25 PM To make it more clear, 360 PPM (parts per million) means that "for each molecule of CO2 there are 27 molecules of something else" in Earth's atmosphere. Assume that we (people) are resposible for half the CO2 (not really proven), then about 55 out of 56 molecules in Earth's atmosphere are not our responsibility. If we cut CO2 emissions by 10%, that would reduce anthropogenic CO2 by "one molecule out of every 550". Of no concequence at all, except for the cost. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: DougR Date: 06 Jul 09 - 05:56 PM Alice: I googled the same site that you did. There were over 14,000 sites related to that subject. I'm a bit puzzled about why you chose the American Bar Association's website information. What am I missing? I saw nothing there that related to the information from the Wall Street Journal that I posted. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Peace Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:04 PM I figure the global is warming on the stove. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: pdq Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:09 PM Right now, my stove has a pot of chili. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Peace Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:12 PM You make REAL chili? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Zen Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:18 PM Lecturing the knowledegeable folks in the science community is as silly as truck driver lecturing judge Stevens about constitutional law. So why are you doing the same to some of us scientists pdq? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:30 PM It seems that there are many other reputable scientists who also question the evidence too. Well, by definition all scientists are committed to question evidence - that's what evidence is for, and that's what scientists do. But the suggestion that, having questioned the evidence, "many reputable scientists" think that the case is not proved that there is already substantial climatic change with worse to come, and that human activity is contributing dangerously to this - well, it just is not true. It really isn't. Remember how for years there were efforts to claim that smoking didn't cause cancer? There were always a few "reputable scientists" ready to back up that fallacy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Where's the Global Warming From: Bill D Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:40 PM Indeed, McGrath,,, you can find a 'scientist' who will affirm that humans lived beside dinosaurs if you look a bit.... 300!! |
