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BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?

Jerry Rasmussen 26 Dec 05 - 11:31 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 26 Dec 05 - 11:32 AM
Stilly River Sage 26 Dec 05 - 11:36 AM
GUEST 26 Dec 05 - 11:38 AM
Donuel 26 Dec 05 - 11:40 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 26 Dec 05 - 11:42 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 26 Dec 05 - 11:46 AM
Stilly River Sage 26 Dec 05 - 11:48 AM
David C. Carter 26 Dec 05 - 11:48 AM
GUEST 26 Dec 05 - 11:57 AM
Once Famous 26 Dec 05 - 12:27 PM
Amos 26 Dec 05 - 12:33 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Dec 05 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Mr Masculinity 26 Dec 05 - 12:46 PM
RobbieWilson 26 Dec 05 - 12:58 PM
Charley Noble 26 Dec 05 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,Kent Ovation 26 Dec 05 - 01:05 PM
Uncle_DaveO 26 Dec 05 - 01:16 PM
MBSLynne 26 Dec 05 - 01:47 PM
Mo the caller 26 Dec 05 - 02:27 PM
open mike 26 Dec 05 - 02:48 PM
jacqui.c 26 Dec 05 - 02:55 PM
Peace 26 Dec 05 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,Sleepless Dad 26 Dec 05 - 05:35 PM
bobad 26 Dec 05 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Nefty 26 Dec 05 - 06:00 PM
Bill D 26 Dec 05 - 06:02 PM
bobad 26 Dec 05 - 07:26 PM
Once Famous 26 Dec 05 - 09:42 PM
The Fooles Troupe 26 Dec 05 - 09:49 PM
Once Famous 26 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM
GUEST 26 Dec 05 - 10:15 PM
GUEST,Ken 26 Dec 05 - 10:22 PM
bobad 26 Dec 05 - 10:37 PM
GUEST,flagon 26 Dec 05 - 10:49 PM
Peace 27 Dec 05 - 01:07 AM
GUEST,No ivisible means of support 27 Dec 05 - 01:12 AM
Peace 27 Dec 05 - 01:37 AM
Mo the caller 27 Dec 05 - 06:58 AM
GUEST 27 Dec 05 - 07:23 AM
Azizi 27 Dec 05 - 08:17 AM
bobad 27 Dec 05 - 08:20 AM
jacqui.c 27 Dec 05 - 08:24 AM
Azizi 27 Dec 05 - 09:23 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 10:49 AM
beardedbruce 27 Dec 05 - 11:15 AM
jacqui.c 27 Dec 05 - 11:19 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 11:35 AM
Mo the caller 27 Dec 05 - 12:03 PM
jacqui.c 27 Dec 05 - 12:18 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 12:18 PM
GUEST,Flaherty 27 Dec 05 - 02:24 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 02:33 PM
Mo the caller 27 Dec 05 - 04:39 PM
Peace 27 Dec 05 - 04:40 PM
Little Hawk 27 Dec 05 - 05:09 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 05:10 PM
Little Hawk 27 Dec 05 - 05:14 PM
jacqui.c 27 Dec 05 - 05:17 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 05:20 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 05:21 PM
Mo the caller 27 Dec 05 - 05:25 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Dec 05 - 05:28 PM
Peace 27 Dec 05 - 05:28 PM
Little Hawk 27 Dec 05 - 06:40 PM

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Subject: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:31 AM

Real nice to see The Cat came back. Hopefully the rest of the threads can be revived. If not, this will REALLY be a Bew Year.

Just thankful that it's up and running... I missed everyone..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:32 AM

A Bew year? Hopefully, my typing will improve in the New Year


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:36 AM

Refresh back for seven days and all will be revealed.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:38 AM

Where have all the messages gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the messages gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the messages gone?
someone has picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:40 AM

The quantified limit of "hit words" on the NSA Echelon internet scanner; such as Al Quada, Quakers, Peace and harsh assesments of the Bush administration has been reached, qualifying this site as subversive. -or not-

Remember the NSA can send commands as well as receive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:42 AM

Thanks Guest... don't know why I didn't think of that..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:46 AM

Refresh back for seven days and all will be revealed.

What? You mean that's all it takes for all to be revealed? Refreshing back seven days? You know that information could lead to the downfall of religion as we know it, don't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:48 AM

I wish!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: David C. Carter
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:48 AM

I tried to log in to Mudcat at around 2.30pm French time.Couldn't even get the Page up on screen.Is there "something" I don't know about!I've had a good few sherberts over the last two days,so maybe I'm a little hung over,or.......Anyway,Happy everything to everybody.

Cheers
David.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 11:57 AM

What guest and Jerry said.......Missed you all
Wonderful to be back.....

suzi


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 12:27 PM

SRS, are you a Godless atheist? Just asking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Amos
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 12:33 PM

"Religion as we know it" has little to do with Godfullness, old Grinch! :D


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 12:41 PM

Just so I'm not whatever you are, MG!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,Mr Masculinity
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 12:46 PM

That is a redundant question, Gibson. You might as well ask, "Are you a Catholic Pope?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 12:58 PM

MG, Is there another kind of Atheist then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 01:05 PM

Life goes on!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,Kent Ovation
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 01:05 PM

Never underestimate the effect of the godly atheist on society! (grin) They're worse than the godless ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 01:16 PM

In case anyone is honestly confused, the display of messages you get by default is all those messages posted or refreshed in the last 24 hours. You can set the span of time at 1, 3, 7 days, or various MUCH longer periods.

Now, it seems clear to me that Max has been away for the holidays, and the dread virus (whatever its name is) that's been making problems for Mudcat attacked, and Max wasn't there to save Mudcat's bacon. So Mudcat was off line for what, maybe three days? And all of the existing messages, not getting refreshed with new blood, so to speak, got old enough to not show up in the default 24 hour display.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 01:47 PM

Am I suffering from deja vu, or has all this happened before?

Love Lynne


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 02:27 PM

"Out again and round again"
as a recidivist barrow boy in my husbands home town used to shout.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: open mike
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 02:48 PM

good riddance to some of them..
it is good to be back..


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 02:55 PM

I'll second that open mike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Peace
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 03:34 PM

Are there any agnostic atheists out there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 05:35 PM

You mean someone who don't know what type of God they don't believe in ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 05:54 PM

Thank god I'm an atheist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,Nefty
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 06:00 PM

Thank science and empirical reasoning! Without them, I'd never have turned to God.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 06:02 PM

those atheists are finally getting some respect and tolerance!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 07:26 PM

More atheist humour


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 09:42 PM

Well, SRS, I'm quite glad that you are not what I am either which is a Jew. something I am sure you have much disdain for.

I would think, that you also have some kind of self-esteem problem, or quite possibly a hate of God and religions due to your on-going health issues.   However, you did not answer the question I asked which shows just how shallow you are.

I should have re-phrased my question SRS if you a Godless soul, which you obviously are. As I have said before, when you are on your deathbed in pain, it's funny how many all of a sudden find religion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 09:49 PM

Many people have a bet each way - just like you, Toy King.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 10:03 PM

Actually Louis Marx of the Marx Toy Co. of New York was known as the Toy King. You can look it up.

Now, what else do you want me to teach you, pal?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 10:15 PM

God is dead Martin you can look it up .

Long live the Toy King.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,Ken
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 10:22 PM

With all this talk about God and atheism, I am reminded of the Adamsian axiom of dieties, "I refuse to prove that I exist, for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 10:37 PM

Faith is believing in something when common sense tells you not to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,flagon
Date: 26 Dec 05 - 10:49 PM

To the contrary, proof simply renders faith rock solid...transforming it into certain knowledge. Faith is a strong supposition. Proof provides confirmation of that supposition. In tbe absence of definitive proof, faith is still a perfectly reasonable basis on which to stand...and will in itself spur the further search for proof to back up that faith. Without faith in something, in anything, a person is lost. You need faith in order to provide motivation. This can have to do with religion...or not. It can also have to do with anything else in life.

Proof does not deny faith, it exonerates it.

A few visionary men had faith that a heavier than air machine could be constructed and made to fly under its own power. That faith spurred them on to attempt it. Eventually they succeeded. Their faith had secured indeniable proof, and was thereby strengthened, and upon that strengthened faith they achieved extraordinary accomplishments in aviation in the next few decades of powered flight.

It is people of great faith who lead society forward in science, art, industry, religion, and every other thing worth doing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 01:07 AM

From G. K. Chesterton (Essential Writings, Why I'm Not a Pagan; Orbis Books pgs. 116-117):

"...the Christian virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are in their essence as unreasonable as they can be. As the word 'unreasonable' is open to misunderstanding, the matter may be more accurately put by saying that each one of these Christian or mystical virtues involves a paradox in its own nature... Charity means pardoning what is unpardonable, or it is no virtue at all. Hope means hoping when things are hopeless, or it is no virtue at all. And Faith means believing the incredible, or it is no virtue at all... Charity is a fashionable virtue in our time... Hope is a fashionable virtue today... But Faith is unfashionable, and it is customary on every side to cast against it the fact that it is a - paradox... Yet it is not one atom more paradoxical than Hope or Charity. Charity is the power of defending that which we know to be indefensible. Hope is the power of being cheerful in circumstances which we know to be desperate... The virtue of Hope exists only in earthquake and eclipse... Charity to the Deserving is not Charity at all, but Justice. It is the Undeserving who require it, and the ideal either does not exist at all, or exists wholly for them. For practical purposes it is at the hopeless moment that we require the hopeful man, and the virtue either does not exist at all, or begins to exist at that moment. Exactly at the instant when Hope ceases to be reasonable, it begins to be useful..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,No ivisible means of support
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 01:12 AM

ditto


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 01:37 AM

One of the realities in my life is that I realize most people don't care what I believe, neither the substance nor the intensity of the belief. That's fine with me. I have never been able to get into an organized religion (for any length of time) because after a while I perceive hypocrisy in both the congregation(s) and in myself. So I leave. That said, I also see that beliefs of certain types make people happy within themselves, and if their church going helps them achieve that happiness, then I don't feel it incumbent on me to add much in the way of admonishment. It's their belief, not mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 06:58 AM

Well, I dont care what anyone beleives, except that religion seems to have taken over this thread.
But I can't understand all this tolerance.If A's religion is true, then B's must be false.
And if you turn to God on your death bed and then it turns out you chose the wrong one... what then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 07:23 AM

Means you should have done some prior planning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 08:17 AM

So, to return to the point of this thread-where have all the messages gone? And why did they leave us? And can they come back again? And will we still be the same if & when they do?

Oh, no! I've returned us to ontological questions when all I wanted to do was ask one simple question!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 08:20 AM

That question has already been answered if you take the trouble to read the posts in this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 08:24 AM

I think I know what SRS means.

Right now, in various countries in the world religion is the big stick. Fundamentalists of all colours are saying 'our way is right and all the rest of you must abide by our rules'. It creeps me out to have heard a religious leader down south saying, after the Shrub got in again, "We've put him back now he must do what we want".

I have my own belief which is not tied to any religion that I am aware of. I have come to that belief over years of questioning and learning. I do not want to be told by anyone else how and who to worship, or to have to abide by another's set of religious rules. Unfortunately there are too many zealots of all religions who want to impose their own rules on the rest of society.

A bit more faith in tolerance would do this world a lot of good IMHO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Azizi
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 09:23 AM

A bit more humor {or humour as you like it} would be good too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 10:49 AM

Woodncha know it. I start a simple thread with the question answered almost immediately and it evolves into another thread about religion.
Here I am, a Gospel Messenger and all, and I've stayed out of the discussion.

As words are often thrown around in here quite casually and are sometimes at the root of poor communication, I'd just like to give a dicitonary definition of the word "religion." Most people use the word religion meaning "organized" religion. I've never heard anyone have a problem with disorganized religion. It's when it gets organized that people have a problem with it. The problem with "organized" religion is that it's organized by human beings, and can easily succumb to all the human qualities we try to rise above, like jealously, judgment, desire for power, and the exclusion of those who believe differently. Organized religion is only as good as those who do the organizing.

That said, religion is "The belief in a supernatural power which governs the universe; a recognition of God as an object of worship." In the true definition of the word, you can be "religious" and never go to church or subscribe to any particular flavor of religion. For those who believe in God, or Jesus, or folk music or rap or Nascar racing, getting together with people of like interests is natural. In a way, Mudcat is organized folk music. We are all drawn to others who share a common interest or way of thinking. When that becomes too institutionalized it can take on all the characteristics of government, politics, "big" business, and professional sports.

Maybe what we should all rail against is getting organized. It always lead to missuse... even charities suffer from corruption and missuse of funds.

Perhaps it's time that we all get disorganized. If that's the case, I want to be President of the Disorganization. But there's the rub. There's always a natural attempt to organize disorganization.
Organized disorganization is like unGodly Atheists, I guess.

Citizens Of The World, Get Disorganized!

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 11:15 AM

"I've never heard anyone have a problem with disorganized religion."


Truer words have never been said.

Religion is the relationship between Man and God- whenever it devolves to between Man and Man, then we have problems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 11:19 AM

Nice one Jerry

You hit the nail on the head. I think that a lot of people have a need to belong and gravitate toward a group who will give them a framework of rules to live by, and there are always people who are only too ready to do the organising.

I remember one time watching a totally disparate group of people involved in one of the more minor religions and thinking that these were just individauls who wanted to be part of a larger group. That lead me on to thinking about what, for want of a better word, is called the herd instinct and how much that instinct can affect our lives.

Now, although I do belong to a group, it does not ask me to abide by any real set rules or castigate me for things done or not done. It's called the Mudcat and is really the only group that I have any real interest in belonging to, outside of friends and family.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 11:35 AM

That's what I've always loved about the folk community, jacqui. It is pretty welcoming. Now, if you are a Republican, or a Christian, you might feel differently but Mudcat is no different than anyplace else. It's as much what you bring to the group as it is to what the group gives you. I come here as a seriosly commited Christian who loves Jesus Christ, and feel welcome and not rejected because of my beliefs. Maybe that's because I welcome everyone into my home and my life, no matter what their beliefs. I believe that we are rejected in the same proportion as we reject others.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 12:03 PM

I like that Jerry.
And as an atheist who often calls for church events (harvest ho-downs etc) I like the community feeling you get there too; everyone looks after the younger dancers, so all can join in


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 12:18 PM

Nice one Jerry

You hit the nail on the head. I think that a lot of people have a need to belong and gravitate toward a group who will give them a framework of rules to live by, and there are always people who are only too ready to do the organising.

I remember one time watching a totally disparate group of people involved in one of the more minor religions and thinking that these were just individauls who wanted to be part of a larger group. That lead me on to thinking about what, for want of a better word, is called the herd instinct and how much that instinct can affect our lives.

Now, although I do belong to a group, it does not ask me to abide by any real set rules or castigate me for things done or not done. It's called the Mudcat and is really the only group that I have any real interest in belonging to, outside of friends and family.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 12:18 PM

That's good to hear, Mo. If we believe we are to love each other, there should be no restriction based on what others believe. And you find good people everywhere.. good Republicans (gasp!) good Muslims, good Jews, good Christians, good Atheists, even good Yankees fans..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: GUEST,Flaherty
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 02:24 PM

"If A's religion is true, then B's must be false."


Ha. Only if one has such a primitive understanding OF religion in the first place that it could be compared to that of a caveman or a very young and frightened child.

Anyone who has a deeper understanding of spirituality finds value and meaning in all religions...and the same simple truths at the heart of all their teachings.

The Bahais are wise enough to recognize that. So are many others. Intolerant fundamentalists who hate all other religions than their own garner the headlines for one simple reason...bad news is always distributed widely. It sells more copy than good news.

It is a common error of the person who hates religion on principle to assume that everyone who is religious must also be as intolerant and narrow-minded as he himself is...and must in addition be a simple-minded idiot. Not necessarily so. The intolerant atheist and the intolerant fundamentalist are two shoes made out of the same leather. They walk the same path of mutual chauvinism. They just happen to go on a different foot, that's all. You will find the same nasty head crowning the body...imagining that its chosen way is the only right way possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 02:33 PM

Strong stuff, Flaherty: Plenny a wisdom in there, too.

Jerry

Oh yeah... the messages are o.k. now, in case anyone wonders..

Hmmn... do you think Shambles would mind if a Joe Clone changed the title of this thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 04:39 PM

But there are two sides to tolerance.
There is Jerry's tolerance of people,whoever they are and whatever they believe in.
Then there is the wishy-washy "I don't mind what you believe in as long as you have faith" rubbish.
My atheism comes with evangelical Christian roots so I do not think that believing that your views are right and contradictictory views are wrong is nasty
"and the same simple truths at the heart of all their teachings."
no, "No man cometh to the Father but by me" is either true or false (or meaningless)
And I can understand that if you believe that nonchristians are bound for hell,you will try to convert them. We don't have to listen,of course and are unlikely to be convinced.

Don't change the thread title Joe, how would we find it ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 04:40 PM

Regarding the thread title: What messages are missing? That is, how would I go look for one and not find it because it's missing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:09 PM

Mo - Okay. Here are my thoughts on that.

No, it's more like "I don't mind what you believe, as long as it doesn't impell you to try to hurt or control me or someone else..."

Believe as you will, and harm no one. That's a good credo.

I don't believe non-Christians are bound for hell. I don't wish to convert anyone except myself, but I enjoy sharing ideas and talking about spiritual matters.

The statement "No man cometh to the Father but by me" means this (in my opinion):

The indwelling Spirit of God in every living being can be termed "the Son" (or "the Daughter") of God. It's like the Divine Spark of higher consciousness. No one can come to the Father (the entire Divine) except through that Son (which already exists implicitly in everyone). When a prophet speaks, using his human voice (which he must), and that voice says ""No man cometh to the Father but by me
" it is that same spark of Divinity in the prophet that sleeps latent in YOU which IS speaking, and it's telling the truth. You cannot come to the whole Divine except by the individualized Divine that lives within you (the Christ within). It's the same in everyone, but it can only speak through a man's vocal chords and say "No man cometh to the Father but by me". You don't need the specific man Jesus...or the man Mohammed...or the man Buddha...to do that...although they could probably help you, having realized it themselves. You need to contact what sleeps within you and awaken it. How is that done? By surrender, complete love, complete forgiveness, complete lack of egocentricity.

The statement was true. People's interpretation of it (that you can only reach God through the specific man/God Jesus and through no one else) was a completely faulty understanding of what the statement meant....or even of who was speaking. Something eternal was speaking...and it has spoken through many prophets and teachers, and will continue to do so.

The Christian religion, which was busy building an exclusive power structure in this World, would not want you to know that, would they? They need your exclusive adherence to them only, your denial of all other spiritual paths, and your denial of the Christ within anyone BUT Jesus. The Christ lives within all, and is not exclusively tied to Jesus. He had simply fully opened to the Christ himself, thus became it. (as can others) He could then speak with authority and do great works.

Jesus did not build those historical churches and their power structure, and I believe he would disown or at least severely rebuke them if he were here.   They turned him into an idol for their own purposes, and turned his teachings into a means of enslaving people. They betrayed everything he stood for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:10 PM

Actually, I don't want the title changed. Inadvertently, it's turned out to be quite existential. What are the messages? where have they gone, and how can we face tomorrow or make sense of today if the messages are gone?

If anyone dares change this title, I'm telling Shambles.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:14 PM

No! Don't tell Shambles!!!! (for pity's sake...) ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:17 PM

LOL Jerry.

LH - that is a truth that I discovered in the past couple of years. I'm still struggling toward the ideals that you espouse and which I do believe should be the credo by which we live our lives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:20 PM

Hey, Little Hawk: As I know you know, Christianity isn't as monolitihic and simplistic as people make it out to be. I was close friends with a wonderful Lutheran minister who did not believe that the saying "No man comes to the Father except through me" meant that non-Christians could not be accepted into the Kingdom of God. We're getting into deep water here, and probably not a proper subject to discuss on the Cat. I have no desire to, at least. I just wanted to say that there are Christians who are "organized" that do not see salvation as exclusively Christian. If God is love, then I figure he's going to cut everybody a lot of slack.

The other observation I wanted to pass along in response to your posting is that I have heard ministers say countless times, "Don't worship the church," or "Don't worship me." Worshipping "organized religion" is much like worshipping a false God. It's like unwrapping a package, admiring the wrapping paper and never opening the gift.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:21 PM

In keeping with the thread on parodies, maybe we need one that says "My God's Better than Your God."

My God is love... try and top that one...

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:25 PM

Little Hawk , I agree with your first 2 statements
But whatever you think the gospel writer meant there are some who believe it more literally, and I can not tolerate those who call such believers intolerant.
Me, I just enjoy a good arguement.

"how can we face tomorrow or make sense of today if the messages are gone?" Some of us have to, Jerry.

If I'm to make semse of tomorrow, I'm off to bed now
night all
Mo


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:28 PM

Yo, Mo! You are a tolerant man. The world is in desparate need of people like you.

Get some sleep.

We won't resolve these issues by tomorrow..

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 05:28 PM

I don't want the title chaned either, and I promise NOT to tell Shambles.

But, I still don't know what messages are missing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where Have All The Messages Gone?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 06:40 PM

Well said, Mo. I too appreciate your openmindedness.

Jerry - Understood. You're quite right, we're getting into stuff that might be better discussed off the Net than on it. ;-) This place is like talking at the top of your lungs in the middle of some large local restaurant, with everyone listening in on the conversation. That could lead to problems and misunderstandings.

Jacqui - Well, good for you. It ain't easy, that's for sure.


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Mudcat time: 5 April 3:40 AM EDT

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