Where are the kids?

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Feb 99 - 12:36 AM

Muckskipper,you hit the nail on the head!That is the great power of traditional music-it is strong enough to thrive under the changes that each generation imposes upon it, because the roots are changeless and enduring.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Banjer
Date: 19 Feb 99 - 08:10 PM

Way to go Muckscapper! It's good to see that folk music of all varieties, (ballads, sea chanties, protest songs, etc. etc.) are being carried on. I'm sure that folk will outlive much of the forms of music(?) that are abundant today, much as it has outlived many of the styles of music that have come and gone over the years. Keep up the good work, all of you younger ones. While I have the floor, along the same vein, does anyone remember when country music was great? The early to mid 50's up into the mid 60's seems to be the Golden Era of Country Music. I have the two multi volume sets of Country's Family Reunion, hosted by Bill Anderson and they sure bring back some really good memories of days when we gathered around the radio to listen to the Grand Ole Opry on Saturday Nights....Ah, those were the days!

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Anne Lee
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 10:10 PM

Laurel started a thread awhile back entitled something like "What are schools doing to folk music". Some of the issues, concerns, responses are similar, sort of...anyway...our local school district seems to do a pretty good job. I know for a fact at the school I teach at has a fantastic program.

As long as we expose the younger generations to folk, it will continue. Thank God. Tunes you can actually remember and sing...TRy hummin' a rap song?

Anne Lee

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: SeanM
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 09:04 PM

As a slightly younger member of the set, I'd like to say that we're out here.

I work the Renaissance faire scene as a member of an acting/singing troupe with a speciality in sea shanties. A few of us have just started a side group performing music from several periods. We're preparing our shanty set for the Faire, and have also been doing gigs for the California sesquicentennial (sp?). Our ages are from 23-35, and in the larger group we come from we range from 11-45. Don't give up hope yet. And don't pass the mantle... we're building a new one with everything that's come before, and a touch of our own selves built in.

Thanks!

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 08:58 PM

Grizzly Bear: (grizzly has 3 syllables)

Talking 'bout the grizzly, grizzly bear

old work song with a very strong rhythm

doug showd us how to stretch it into a creative drama with:

stomp and tromp like a grizzly bear have you got big claws like the grizzly bear into your den like ...

sleep all winter like ...

simple Aminor - Eminor vamp; sorry, it is NOT in Doug Lipman's *We all go together: creative activities for children to use with multicultural folksongs* like I thought it was.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:20 PM

Somewhat along the lines of what Banjer was saying, but opposite:

I was merrily singing a few tunes along with the guitar like "Dark Hollow" and "Pig in a Pen" when my teenage son comes into the room saying, "I thought you didn't like the Grateful Dead!"

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Banjer
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 07:04 PM

I don't know what part of the world Bri is in, but all I can say is "Good for you, Bri" (and all the others you know who like folk music.) Here in the American south, it seems that folk music is not as popular as it once was among the youger set. I often get a good laugh when young folks, even my own kids, come raving about a song they just heard as a new release. When it comes on again and they get me to listen to it they are amazed that I can sing along with it. They listen with awe as I, (the resident Caveman, well ) tell them of how their mother and I also thought at one time that this must be a new song untill OUR parents told us how THEY had heard it when they were young....and so the cycle repeats itself....help it along, Bri and company.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Bri
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 06:38 PM

I didn't read most of these, only the first two, or so, so i don't know if the topic has changed. I'm 15 and i luv folk music. My parents don't listen to it. and we often sing it in choir and it tends to be more liked than the other religious stuff the teacher has us do. i know lots of kids my age that know some of these, ones that aren't in choir. and camps...damn..that's ALL they sing! and that's like 1,000's of kids singing the skye boat song. they're there! bri

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 05:04 PM

Grizzly Brear? I don't know that one Mary Ann
Heard a poem in school once about 'The Grizzly Izzly Bear'. WOuld that be it?

Bert.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 04:08 PM

Just caught up to this thread; thanks to Lonesome EJ for refreshing it.

Most of the posts refer to "kids" as being tweens, young adults, adolescents; whatever you call 'em. If you mean who is PERFORMING folk, that makes sense.

But as far as growing new fans, in my professions of young people's librarian I find I am constantly gently reminding parents and other caregivers to share what they already know.

Just this morning I sang and taught "Grizzly Bear" in preschool storytime (I learned it from Doug Lipman and it is in his great book. If you have an auditorium full of wiggly preschoolers and Raffi is off in the rain forest again, call Doug.)

Last week I sang and taught "Magic Penny." It showed up in church again Sunday (UU, of course.) (I kept diverging from the leader until I realized the leader was doing it the way Malvina Reynolds wrote it; after years and years of singing along with Mr. Sing Along, Fred Holstein, in Chicago, I had to readjust.)

When we had our centennial celebration and I needed to entertain 30+ kids of all ages, I did play party games, and not one kid knew "In and out the Window," and adults kept saying "I haven't heard that since I was a kid!" (Too much electronic babysitting I guess, but that's another soapbox.)

(Play party games, by the way, are the great way to teach kids the skills for folk dancing later on; I highly recommend them).

One more memory for me; busking in Chicago subways again.

A little girl and her mother wanted to stop and listen but hadto hury for the train instead. since I was tired anyway, I headed on over to the platform myself, and the little girl asked for a song while we waited for the Northbound Howard St. line.

So I pulled out my beater and started singing, song after song. When I began "Bingo," the mother wandered over and joined in. The child stopped in amazement. "You know this song?" "Oh, everybody knows that old song." I encouraged her to sing it with her daughter, since she apparently did not know it, and was crying out for stimulation. "Oh, she'll learn it in school sometime" said the mother, as they boarded the train and I gaped in wonder.

If you worry about where the next generation of folkies is coming from, get jobs working with young people. teachers. camp counsellors. have your kids join scouts and campfire and everything else, and volunteer to do programs. (The leaders will love it.)

And check for libraries like mine, where you will find all of Fink and Marker's excellent tapes, and those great instructional vidieos from Rounder and elsewhere. Tweens looking to learn how to play will take out any genre of instruction.

Mary Ann

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Mitch
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 03:33 PM

I've been approached by my fourteen year old daughter concerning Folk music. This was rather an interesting topic needless to say. I had to immediately refer to the place where I could gather immediate information. From what I've been reading about I like to say it has been positive - diversity is truly a wonderful thing, this applies to music as well as culture etc. Hoping to learn more.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 01:30 PM

above post was mine...forgot to sign it

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From:
Date: 18 Feb 99 - 01:28 PM

I just read through this thread and I think this is one of the most thought provoking ones I have read.I recently read an extensive interview with Cordelia's Dad, a group of traditional musicians ,all twenty-something.The interview was interesting for a number of reasons. One was the obvious disgust with being described as a "folk" group.In fact the liner notes for "Comet",an excellent collection of traditional music by them, refers to"types of f*lk music", as if the word were an obscenity. And yet the interview goes on to describe research into manuscripts for forgotten tunes from the mid-19th century, the lead singer's early interests in Shape-Note Song, and differences between frame-drum and bodhran technique.This band also performs electric versions of these same mid-1800s songs in a style that I would have to describe as Punk-Trad.(God forbid I should use the term folk-rock). I think these young musicians bristle at any description or classification of what they do that implies they are following in the footsteps of their parents.When I was 19 and singing with my band "Mythology" we sure didn't aspire to do new interpretations of terrific old Tommy Dorsey songs.Somehow the music of our grandparents was less of a threat, and maybe that accounts for some of folks popularity among my generation.It wasn't shoved down our throats:we were able to "rediscover" music forms like folk and blues that had been obscured.Funny thing,how Big Band music is making a comeback now,huh?

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Jan 99 - 07:51 PM

Well you could get a bunch of us. God knows this is a diverse bunch, always arguin' over what folk is. But I'll bet there's something for everybody around here somewhere.catspaw

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Karla Ingleton
Date: 25 Jan 99 - 06:56 PM

I run a network called SEEN.COM and we have been trying to get full-families out to our events which always feature live music. My question is - How do you keep the kids and parents happy? And for how long should a family night concert last?

regards [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Rex Rideout
Date: 25 Jan 99 - 08:07 AM

My two boys have their own pile of musical instruments. Don't know where they got that idea from. When folks come by and we play tunes, sometimes Ben and Daniel drag out their stuff and join in. Sometimes they don't. It's whatever they feel like. I don't push it. But now Ben, (the elder of the two) is taking up violin in school. Somebody pinch me, maybe he'll learn to play it properly and then teach his dad. That's what he tells me. I join in with friends when late summer comes around. We set up a tent city out on the prairie East of Denver. Well, smack dab in Aurora we call Homestead City. The setting is always 100 years ago. This year we will be in 1899 and wondering what the new century will bring. So we all have our little occupations during the day. I repair tools and make some as well. In the evening I end up in the saloon or sometimes we have a dance somewhere. I'm always the last one to quit and when I finally do stop caterwallin' it's always the kids (late teens) that are still there. The old folks have gone to bed. Well the last couple of years these kids have been bringing old guitars and having me set them up. They will play along or go off and do their own thing. I feel like I'm priming the next generation for this tent city. In 2020 or so when I'm cooling my heels sitting in a rocking chair on the porch and telling stories, these folks will keep Homestead City or something like it going. Keep the strings ringing.

Rex

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Rex Rideout
Date: 25 Jan 99 - 07:51 AM

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Pete (inactive)
Date: 25 Jan 99 - 04:13 AM

what about everyone under say - 25 years of age - who's parents or close relations are NOT into folk music - post there name, age and how they got interested in Folk Music.

Maybe this would give a better idea of how Folk Music is reaching the 'Young ones'

Pete (Clansfolk)

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 07:09 PM

Laurel, you are a breath of fresh air! Good luck in your flute playing and all your music making! We're counting on you and your friends to keep it going in the future- you won't be alone!

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Laurel
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 06:54 PM

All of my friends like folk and Celtic too.

Laurel

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Laurel
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 05:34 PM

Dan- I am a kid. I love Celtic (especially) and folk. I don't listen to the things that most kids like. I play the Irish flute and just got a Ralph Sweet one for Christmas. From my point of view, there are kids who like folk music and that kind of thing. My parents are in a Celtic band called Faire Wind, I have friends who are in a band in the Twin Cities called The Gaels. That's all for now!

The best to all, Laurel

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Pete (inactive)
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 03:25 PM

Ahh who will carry on when we are laid to rest?

Well there are many young folk singers, as previously mentioned and so many of them show far greater talent than we did back in the 60's! Every year at our local festival (Fylde - Fleetwood, Lancashire, England) they encourage the younger people with teach-ins, competitions (the winner performing on the front stage at the final concert)etc.. and from what I've seen there will be no lack of singers, musicians to carry on our love of traditional music. However there is one problem as I see it - the music is going to the converted, as previously mentioned the children attending the festivals/clubs have been brought up with Folk Music from their family interest.

At our local sessions (Falcon Folk - Poulton-le-fylde Nr Blackpool, England) we sing in an open bar - everyone of legal age to enter a bar - is welcome to join in or just listen in some small way this will offer the music to a wider younger group, several have come to have a pint and returned a few weeks later with an instrument and joined in.

We need to repay the music by spreading the word.... not hiding away in the upstairs room of a pub and behind the closed gates of a festival --- let the people have free samples of THEIR music and maybe more will like it!

Ok so lets all take to the streets like the pied piper of Hamilin and hope the children will follow the music.

Take care and sing well

Pete (clansfolk)

ps thanx to Rusty & Stu Wright for all the hard work they have done at Fylde with the children.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 12:10 PM

catspaw... enjoyed that last message. Handing down the music means being aware of handing down the instruments, too. Giving musical instruments to kids is important. Whenever there is an opportunity for you to give a child a gift, if you can give them an instrument (even a penny whistle), that is an excellent way to make sure the making of music goes on. I do appreciate the music program in our town's schools. Almost every child plays an instrument in either band or orchestra starting in the 5th grade. So, for at least one year, they all can appreciate having an instrument in their hands and performing music. The school orchestras nurture the string players and the bands nurture the wind instruments and drummers.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Jan 99 - 12:31 AM

harpgirl: I always love to ask if the rappers think gangs, rebellion,beating up cops, terrorizing the civic leaders, and all that kinda'stuff is really cool and new. One of my rap loving 15 year olds got into a long talk with me about this and how I couldn't understand. Rather than take him to my generation (60's) of stuff we went to the the dear old "Garry Owen." Within a few weeks he was playing all kinds of my records, tapes, and CD's. Slowly, a conversion is taking place. He even got special credit for doing a paper on this for school.

We have been involved in foster care for many years and the tastes of the kids are varied ... but I have yet to have any older (12+) child arrive with any knowledge of or liking for ANY type of "folk." Oh, a little folk/rock/pop or C&W, maybe...But I have to get in this one other thing. We have had 14 teenage girls over the years and EVERY ONE has managed to find Janis Joplin doing "Cry, Cry, Baby" somehow. Most have a lot of personal issues and as I recall only 2 new who she was before...but all of them fell in love with THAT ONE SONG. No point to that story...just kinda' interesting.

I am happy to say that all of them got "folk" (whatever that is nobody can agree) exposure while they were here and maybe some of that comes back to them down the road. We just need to keep strummin', pickin', pluckin', bowin', hammerin', and singin' as best we can and have a good selection playing on the stereo...Never know what will happen down the road.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From:
Date: 23 Jan 99 - 10:58 PM

It's nice to keep hammering away in a comunnity. I am now playing for the kids of the kids I played for in my town when I got back from my apprentiships for my trade from rural North Carolina and South Wales{U.K.} around 1970 .It's great to play for peaple before they are thinking of what is cool {say fith grade and less} and can get to the essence that home made music is FUN! Then the action of playing music catchs them from a real place. I don't know what Garage music is but I could amagine the kids doing that sometime might go to find Robert Johnson,or Clarence Tom Ashley to play on their back porch. I think home made music will beget home made music garage or porch.Our job is to show them how much fun we'er having and that truth will always make for new folkys.THank you Allen Block for having so much funplaying fiddle at the Sunapy Crafts Festival in 1968. Hello to all

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: rick fielding
Date: 23 Jan 99 - 10:09 PM

Never heard the term "soft-seaters" before. Greatly descriptive, sort of like Woody's "flat wheelers" and "dead enders", from "Hard Travellin'". I started hearing the term "diaroids" used in Toronto this year to describe singer-songwriters (they're gettin' it from all sides it seems) and finally "bird feet" for the kind of footwear favoured by "non-progressive" women on stage. Whooee, what a language we have!

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From:
Date: 23 Jan 99 - 04:50 PM

And part of the problem is that up and comers generally play bars rather than soft-seaters when they go on the road. You can have performers under 19, but not an under-19 audience. Even if technically they can be admitted, the owners don't want them because they don't drink, and if they do drink, they do it illegally and risk the license.

Folk clubs are generally so God-awful crushingly dull and pretentious, and so full of rules, New Age superstitions, exceedingly bad coffee, and anally retentive farts and fogies that I can't blame the kids for not going. A Metallica concert or a rave sure sounds more fun to me. In fact, I can't think of a place that presents traditional music more out of context than the modern folk club. The reverence and pedantry with which the music is presented reminds me of a Bible study class. At least sailors, dragoons, ploughboys, and flash girls really did roister in taverns.

There are "folkies" of a sort playing at the coffee shops that the teenagers like to frequent, but they tend to be contempory-style singer/songwriters and don't play traditional stuff. I'm not not knocking them for this, because some of them are quite good, just pointing out that traditional music is generally not heard in these places.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From:
Date: 23 Jan 99 - 04:33 PM

Natalie MacMaster is only 23 (first recording at 16)and Ashley MacIsaac not much older. There is also another band from Cape Breton Island, Slante something or other,(relatives of the Barra MacNeils) where I believe they are just graduating from high school. PEI fiddler Richard Wood is about 20 or 21. The Ennis Sisters from Newfoundland are in their late teens or early twenties. Mary Jane Lamond, a Canadian who sings in gaelic, is in her twenties. The guys in GBS can't be over thirty. In fact, if I thought about it long enough I could probably come up with a long list of Canadian folkies under thirty.

Part of the problem might be the cultural thing. In places like Cape Breton and Newfoundland, people actually play and sing this music at home for their own amusement, so the kids pick it up. Plus their festivals and dances are decidedly family affairs ,often much to my curmudgeonly chagrin.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: harpgirl
Date: 22 Jan 99 - 04:22 PM

My sixteen year old son says they aren't playing it because it isn't cool, they're not interested in history, and they like rap and heavy metal better. This from a kid who sang Dixie Darling with me at a bluegrass session last week and knows all the words to All For Me Grog and A Drop of Nelson's Blood!!! I think that if we continue to drag them to festivals and keep playing in our living rooms and on our porches, eventually they will get interested in "history!"...harpgirl

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Animaterra
Date: 22 Jan 99 - 03:07 PM

The fact of kids in schools not being exposed to folk music really gets my professional (elementary music teacher) dander up! What are we supposed to be doing, for goodness sake? Sandy's wife Carolyn recently coined the phrase "the Disneyfication" of elementary music education, where the kids are entertained with bubble gum pop style feel-good music. We run the risk in the States of greatly diminishing our cultural heritage when we give into that standard. We music teachers, I mean- --

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Jan 99 - 01:37 PM

Where are the kids?

We must be useing too many condoms... Sorry.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Jon W.
Date: 22 Jan 99 - 11:20 AM

In Utah, not quite as sparsely populated as Montana (or is it?) I've see two really good local Celtic bands - one a trio of brothers 17, 15, and 13 years old at the time, the other a father and 3 daughters 18, 13, and 11 years (don't ask the age of the father). They're playing traditional stuff and writing stuff of their own that is nearly indistinguishable from the tradition (that's a complement by the way).

I myself have a young friend, now 16, who has occasionally come over to play the blues with me.

So there are some kids out there who like folk. I just wish some of my own progeny were among them.

Jon W.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 10:59 AM

Hey, Gearoid, I really enjoyed what you had to say about your experience with your friends. I have been thinking about this topic as it relates to rural and urban areas. In the cities, like Dublin and San Francisco, there are opportunities to find many kinds of music. In rural areas of countries that preserve their heritage, local people still sing and play trad music. In a small rural western US town like mine, we are the envy of folkies in the state because we have three sessions a week. Helena has a bluegrass session that is healthy, but Butte, heart of the Montana Irish, has no session at all. Most folks that are serious about folk music and can afford to take the time to travel have to go to Seattle for the festival to get their yearly 'fix' of folk music. There area fiddle contests in the region and some other get-togethers, but in general, as one music teacher told me, the college, high school and junior high kids have had no exposure to trad music. He sang Shenandoah to one of his classes in the high school, and none of them had heard it before.

It is in sparcely populated areas like Montana that the radio, tv, and CD's define music for young folks. It is nice to see, though, that a large number of the people who show up to listen to session music are from the local University.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: George Henderson NSC
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 07:57 AM

Our rural circle sessions are beginning to attract younger people partly because those sessions are being held in rural parishes rather than big population centres.

However, our Nenagh singers circle DOES NOT attract many younger people. Maybe its because of our voluntary contribution - I'm not sure.

I am a lot more optimistic about it than I was 5 years ago.

Of course the tradition will survive.

You talk about revival but you must remember - some places like Ireland didn't need a revival in the 50's and 60's. It was needed in the 80's and 90's hence the massive increase in singing week-ends.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: AndyG
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 07:08 AM

Having just re-read this thread in its entirety, it seems that generally we (the Folk Community) have successfully "passed the mantle" on to the next generation. The overall perception however is that the emphasis has changed:

a) Away from the songs to the music.
b) Away from the traditional clubs, to "more open" venues (festivals etc).

I infer from the understated comments that most of us have tried (and failed) to make traditional club venues more open and we haven't yet found a working method ?

I live and work in Cambridge (UK), and neither of the folk clubs see much of a student audience, yet as I said above the Waterson:Carthy gig, at a non-club venue, the audience was 150+ people, I'd say about 25% students and almost no-one (ie ME) from either of the folk clubs. Tickets were 10 UKP per head (about twice what a club would charge), and that's a lot of money for a student. I'm pretty sure that if a club put them on 150 different people would turn up.

Controversial Generalisation (NOT a complaint!):
From what I see at festivals etc. I'd say the youth audience wants to jump up and dance to shitkicking diddley-diddley^TM, and a lot of the young bands want to see this reaction. You can't do that in a folk club!

AndyG

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Gearoid
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 05:25 AM

People

The voice of youth has at last rared its rebellious head.

No seriously, I would consider myself an average 22 year old and I listen to folk music (Irish folk that is), dance, indie, classical etc.. depending on the humor. I grew up hearing all the Irish rebel songs and ballads and I learnt the tunes while playing them in a marching band.

Personally I go to all the sessions I can (much to my girlfriends dismay) and I can guarantee you that I will never have a problem getting the lads to accompany me.

Also you would be surprised how many people will join in singing when closing time arrives and you decide you want a session (much to the Barman's dismay) most will know at least the first verse to each song you massacre.

Just to prove my point (on St. Stephens day just past (boxing day 26/12 to the rest) the Wolfe tones were playing in the Mean Fiddler (for those of you unacquainted with Dublin, the Mean Fiddler is usually a "young" concert venue where new rock/indie bands play). I went to this concert with about 11 lads (ranging from 19 to 23) each one of them sang his heart out and said they never had a better night (now I find I am without my favorite CD's, but that's the price I pay for converting the non believers). The majority of the crowd that night was under thirty and the atmosphere was volatile (as mostly rebel songs were played).

Any way you can be certain that this young fella will do all he can to stop Irish folk music being ignored by the youth of today.

Trust me I won't disappoint you.

PS (I might just have a bunch of freaks for mates)

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: karen k
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 01:54 AM

While helping to sell Folk Legacy Records at Champlain Valley last summer I was manning the booth alone and a young man (couldn't have been more than 16) was flipping through the CDs. He had one in his hand looking at it when I noticed that it was Mississippi John Hurt. I was sure he had no idea who John Hurt was, so I asked him if he knew who he was. His reply was, "Oh, sure, I've been learning to play his songs for 3 years now." I was really quite pleased. I took the opportunity to tell him that in the 60's I helped run a coffee house in Connecticut and that John Hurt had played there 3 times and had stayed at my house each time. This young man was so interested. He asked a whole bunch of questions and wanted to know everything I could remember about him. It was a great experience for me to see someone so young really interested in John Hurt and many others who have long since passed. There's no doubt in my mind that the music we all love will go on and on and on and on.......... He bought the CD and I hope his love of John's music grew even more than it already was because I was able to tell him a little bit about a truly great musician.

k

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Jan 99 - 12:39 AM

My daughter's 11, she came home dying, the music teacher was teaching them "Drunken Sailor" & "South Australia" & had asked my daughter if I would come in with any of the guys I sing with & do sea songs. I can't believe she didn't toss the note out well knowing I'd say yes. It was great except my daughter died up until the whole school began belting out the choruses & what a beautiful bunch of letters we got from every class, signed with their take on the music by every kid. They found it very amazing the people sang about whales & the seas & about work & that you could make music from spoons & bones. Thank god they've got a great music teacher. We take our kids to the festivals & they meet alot of other kids & like Barbara I see quite a bit of great young players not so many singers though. Saturday we'll be heading for a Burns supper & a few of the pipers are just kids & the hosts kid is quite the trad singer. Last Mystic Sea Music Festival a group of 2 youngins, (they may not be kids but I got close to 20 yrs on them) called the Nex Tradition blew me away. Seeing how we were sharing the stage with them & a group that did river songs, us & the two whippersnappers decided to sing as one, they'd back us & we'd back them, back & forth seeing as how we did alot of the same songs. Prison work songs, us older folk did it the traditional way & damn when these two started in, it was something. If I'd been cutting wood to they way they sang I'd have been shaking my hips, tapping my toes & smiling the biggest shit eating grin. It was the swinging energy of youth (like Eliza Carthy) that I saw & heard & felt, it was a ball to sing behind them. I remember as a teen going to coffee houses, liking the music but the scene was boring & it carried off into some of the music. The 60's was a high energy time for music & a as a kid I went right to it, got bored after awhile & came back to it in the mid 70's when I had mellowed a bit. The places where I see kids today are at hot picks at festivals or hot sessions. Where the singing's low keyed or slow or just not exciting for the young blood I don't think I ever get to see an impish grin in the crowd. My take on it is that kids & teens need a more continuious & a higher level of stimuli than us older worn torn folks & their attention span keeps them jumping away to more exciting music. Face it, as others said here if you were younger would you hang out with us, maybe at a campfire jam at a festival but I wouldn't be caught dead with me & neither would my kids if I were at a coffeehouse sipping tea. Still young, if only at heart, Barry

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Dan Keding
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 11:21 PM

When I came to Springfield all those many years ago there was a third grade boy in one of my residencies. I was teaching about folk music and storytelling at one of the elemenatary schools and I became friends with he and his family. Later in high school he took guitar lessons from me and when he went to college he taught himself banjo. Now he's twenty two years old and visits me once a week for a session of music and talk. He's teaching science at a local junior high and brings his banjo and guitar to school to entertain his students. Its happening again just like it did for us. Someone hears a tune and finds where it came from, someone gets the itch to make music him/herself, someone "discovers" this music that was really here all the time. I'm seeing young people at the storytelling events, at the music events, hauling banjos and guitars. The difference is that they might be turning onto banjo because of Jerry Garcia instead of Earl Scruggs. Who cares as long as they play. It'll happen, sing it and they will come!!!! Dan

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 09:41 PM

If you don't think the kids are playing any music, you should walk around the campsites at Winterhawk or Thomas Point Beach, or check out the crowd at Escoheag. There are LOTS of kids, LOTS of acoustic music being made at these festivals.

The jazz buff just got home, in fact, from a little session at his friend's house. They call their music funk or whatever, but you can hear strains of tradition if you listen carefully, and you can hear lots of influences from all that came before.

That damn condom thread is tempting to read, but I'm hesitant to check it out because someone may come up behind me and read over my shoulder and worry that, Oh God, she's into bad stuff on the internet! (I do have one great condom story from my after-school job in a drugstore. Maybe later).

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Frank McGrath
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 08:40 PM

I'm glad to inform you that the kids in Ireland are singing, beating bodhrans, sqeezing boxes and having the craic as much and more than ever.

There will always be folk music and song. They just won't and cannot be killed. Of course folk's popularity will wax and wane over time as some new fad takes centre stage for a while. But it will always survive. It's in our blood.

BUT WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE KILL THAT SHAGGIN' CONDOM THREAD.
Sighs......

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 08:17 PM

Youth! Where art thou?

The venues where I like to listen to folk music are usually smoke free. A great number are alcohol free, and I have never seen excessive drinking. This does not describe a place where youth "hangs out." Hell, when we were youth we would not have hung out with us. There were no smoke free coffee houses. Many a "folk night spot" was just a bar with entertainment.

I went to a concert of the "Cry, Cry, Cry" tour (Lucy Kaplansky, Dar Williams, and Richard Shindell). Lots of young people there. I suppose they were mostly drawn by Dar Williams who went on the Lillith Fair tour. These three "folk" artists in their own "write" dedicated this tour to singing the songs of the artists they admire.

I realize that these three are unknowns to many on the 'Cat, but they are part of the keeper of the flames for folk music. Hell, Richard opened for Baez on her last tour. 30 years ago that was Pete's job (partly because he was an "unknown" who deserved to be known).

I suspect Richard is a generation behind me. Lucy and Dar are maybe one half of a generation behind him. Most of the artists I go to see are younger than I am. Perhaps their time will come to lead the generation behind them.

I believe in the "cycles' thing. I figured folk music would have an increase in popularity when I got older. I figured I would make a killing by singing all the old Kingston Trio and Peter, Paul, and Mary songs. Well, the boomlet came, but it wasn't like the '60's. And I'm glad I can sing some new songs that were written last year.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: alison
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 07:42 PM

Hi,

Let's face it... when you were 16 - 25 ish did you want to hang around in places with "old people" ?... (and by old I mean over 30!!!!!)........ no offence intended

When I was that age I certainly wouldn't have wanted to go and sit in a folk club with a bunch of people in their 50's and upwards..... doesn't mean I wouldn't have enjoyed the music, but it wouldn't have looked "cool" to my friends. (and that's pretty important when you're young).

There are certainly a lot of young people out there playing (and going to festivals,)but they're unlikely just to drift into folk clubs on their own ...... somehow we have to make it more attractive and they might come in bulk... and share what they've been playing in their garages / bedrooms.

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 07:14 PM

Here in my small part of Australia I believe that the situation is much like the UK. There are large audiences of young kids going to what I now view as world/folk music gigs, but you won't find them at normal folk venues, nor will you hear Wild Mountain Thyme or any Child ballads.

At the recent Woodford Folk Festival there was a significant proportion of people under (maybe) 28, what seemed to me to be an age gap in the 30's, and then another swag of people of 40+. I was fortunate to be one of the judges of the Grand Final of the Great Band Competition - scratch bands of pros and amateurs thrown together in a lottery just for the competition - and I reckon that the average was probably 25. And the music was fantastic, and exciting.

Folk music is far from dead, but it is evolving much more rapidly than many of us had realised. There are two factors at work in Australia that I believe are significant:

- Just as Australian's eating habits have gone through a transformation due to multi-culturalism in the last decade or so, so has our appreciation of so-called ethnic and native music. Younger people seemed to have embraced this music with vigour and melded it into Celtic and other Western styles.

- Percussion, starting with Afro-Cuban, has had a big influence on the way that young people play and enjoy music, and of course percussion is integral to many 'Eastern' music styles. Some Asian percussion styles such as Gamelan are starting to exert some influence.

I won't rave on much more - but I'm also impressed by the number of younger women in bands playing instruments that have long been the domain of males, and the almost equal gender mix in younger folk bands, and folk audiences.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 06:35 PM

Dear Dan, Alice, Mike Billo, AndyG, Catspaw49, King Brilliant, Steve Latimer, Barbara Shaw, Joe Offer, Animatterra, Allan S, Shambles,and Art,

Thanks, that is what I was trying to say as I rambled on.*******Grin******

Mick

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 03:01 PM

The points made about the UK and the young people playing the music are true though slightly less so with the singing side. It is very exciting the open way that they approach music. The catagories don't mean much to them.

You don't see them in folk clubs though. Why not?

I suppose if I were to put myself in their position, I would not go to folk clubs either. It's not that people do not welcome the young to the clubs, at least they say the right things, but in truth there is not much for them there that they wouldn't find tedious. Our fault?

If you were to call it something else like a 'Roots' Music Club or an Original Song Club you would probably not see anyone there over 30.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 02:50 PM

sorry for the above typos---too much coffee this afternoon.

A problem, as I see it, is the Folk Alliance (of which I'm a proud charter member) muddying the waters and bluring the distinctions as well as making this a real business for the first time. That wasn't true in the past except for the few mega-stars. But think how very many jobs have been created for agents and roadies etc. etc. In the old days we were a group gettin' to gigs by sticking out our thumbs (trying to be like Woody) or taking the bus. Did that until we got a $50.00 car. Thought that was how it should be done if we were in the tradtion of those who went before. Got our own gigs too--on the phone & not using the computer.

We always thought you could take all the sincerity in show business and stuff it into a flea's naval & still have enough room left over for 3 carraway seeds and an agent's heart!!!

Now, I see we're all folks doing the best we can.---While some are still shysters (spelling?), others, like my good friends Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer(who once again, have been nominated for a Grammy in the kid's music category) are simply superb musicians AS WELL AS being top-notch, go-gettin', business folk!! I, to Cathy's huge frustration, hated doing that end of things. But I sure do admire it when I see it done so well by Cathy & Marcy! (And _Blue Rose_ is one of the finest bluegrass bands I've ever heard.)

Art

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Mike Billo
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 02:22 PM

I see kids at festivals, shanty sings, etc. all the time. My 18 year old daughter has the most extensive collection of recorded Celtic music I've ever seen, and regularly goes to various group singing activities with her friends. My 14 year old son and I plan to go busking across America as a Harmonica duet this coming summer, performing the fiddle tunes and Cowboy songs he plays. I recently went to a David Grisman Quintet concert, and I was by far the oldest person in the audience (I'm 49). Maybe it has something to do with living in the San Francisco Bay Area( although I'm not sure why that should be a factor), but, this younger generation seems to be turning out all right as far as I can tell.

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 02:19 PM

My good buddy, Dan Keding (whgo if he was here now would tell ya himself), was recently on tour in the U.K. Dan told me the "kid's getting involved in the music" factor is in wonderful and full bloom over there. The kids, complete with numerous piercings and spiked blue and magenta hair, are embracing the older music with both arms. He was truly moved by the degree to which that's happening over there. The kids doing the real thing are in evidence everywhere---festivals--concerts--coffeehouses & clubs.

Here in the USA it's just different right now! In the Midwest we always say if ya don't like the weather, just wait 15 minutes and it'll change. (My uncle, plowin' with 2 oxen--One died o' heat stroke & while he was skinnin' it, the othe ox froze to death.) But we've got the Freighthoppers & a few others too give us hope...

Subject: RE: Where are the kids?
From: Allan S.
Date: 20 Jan 99 - 02:00 PM

Reading all this really makes me wonder. Many of those playing seem to be writing their own music very little of which is lasting. Othere are in to Political songs that all appear to be left wing. {save the world} I know whats best for you. The rest of the the younger crowd has swung to the right so the music has no appeal to them. C&W is still going strong but of course has changed [Folk process??] Blue grass is going strong but as one chap said "Its all the same tune only the words change" I understand that Hip Hop in now No. 1 in the USA God save us all.