Special Bush section on Mudcat

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Arne
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:27 PM

The Mudcat is, to re-quote Wilson, 'A broad church'. Bush has done a number of things that generate much discussion. Would it be useful to put all the Bush stuff in a place of it's own?

Good idea, but the "BS" category is already taken....    ;-)

Cheers,

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: DougR
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 01:35 PM

I vote no. Not because I am a supporter of President Bush and his policies, but I think it would be an affront to Amos. Amos began his thread, I believe, prior to the 2004 election. The last time I looked it had gained almost 2000 replies. I want to help Amos reach at least 5000 by 2008. If another thread is posted I fear that it would bleed support from Amos' thread. That would be sad. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: hesperis
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:51 AM

It might be nice to have a category for discussion of events separate from the bs category. (I prefer my bs a little more light-hearted, really.) But bush doesn't deserve his own section. When his reign is over there will be other names dominating the political threads.

Anyway, it's up to Max.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 01:45 PM

I am fascinated by this idea of taking the politics out of folk song. What would that leave us - just very old pop songs?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:58 PM

Is that the sound of shouting dying down?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:37 PM

Be sure to, use good, punctuation when, criticizing otherses' use of grammar.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:32 PM

Odd....I don't think my ideas are fanatical. Nor are they obsessive. They pretty well cleave to the outlines laid down by Jefferson and his gang. Declaration of Independence, Constitution, that sorta thing.

Now, it's true I started a thread to collect views of the Bush administration in, but it has cooled a lot of other threads from firing up, I guess, so that's one good thing.

As to politics being banned from the Mudcat, I guess the Spirit of Folk Music has always had room in it for political issues, especially when there is human oppression or a violation of civil rights going on.

So, while it is up to Joe Offer, Max, and Jeff, I suspect yer gonna have to put up with political threads.

I do confess to being persistent about pointing out ole w's shortcomings as a diplomat, leader and human being. One reason is that I have a deep disgust with the mindless robotic mass-think that elevated him to his current position. I think a few voices have to speak out about the Emperor wearing no legal constraints. Just because half the voting population turned dumbass on us doesn't mean they have to stay that way, I guess.

I am sorry it offends you.

A

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:30 PM

"Not only, that, but you used two adverbs in a row."

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:26 PM

"Not only, that, but you used two adverbs in a row."

Perhaps we ought to leave English grammar, parsing and punctuation out of the fight, OK?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:22 PM

Amos, you just don't get it. You just like to hear yourself speak(write) and resort to completely snobbish phony, and I sincerely mean phony and unsubstantiated cardboard intellectualism.

The most I truly get out of your daily whining about Bush and how you have turned this place into a political soapbox for your opinions only is: blah, blah, blah, I'm entitled to everything.

How about this: Ban all political threads, the most decisive thing about the membership here, and give Mudcat a chance to be a cohesive place. I could truly live without all of the political threads here. Could you Amos? Highly doubtful.

And why should discussions be on just your terms, Amos? You have provoked many here and your blind and fanatic far-leftist ideas and obsessions truly warrant some psychiatric investigation on your part.

Not only, that, but you used two adverbs in a row.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 08:46 PM

Actually, for those who think there are too many Bush threads, they need to stop, take a deep breath, and thank Amos for limitin' it to what it is... Yes, his "Popular Views..." thread has acted as both a place to rant as well as a clearing house of what's out there on Bush...

So, thank your lucky stars for Amos... It could be worse...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 12:51 PM

Well, as one of the guilty parties, I wish to say that the majority of the unpleasantness on the subject begins when conversations on the topic are dragged downhill into mudslinging, name-calling, scatological characterizations, and the like.

There are a few, really, who have resorted to these anti-social mechanisms over the years, notably MG, and a few other slimers. I have unfortunately occasionaly been irked into replying in kind with sarcasm and individual investive. I have made a resolution not to let that recur; we'll see if I have the fortitude and spiritual "sand" to stick to that resolution. It is always a little tempting to wade into one of these food-fights! :D

Those of us who do not want to resort to fifth-grade style methods of discourse are more than interested in counter-discussion, preferably specific, unambiguous, unhateful, analytical, intelligent and constructive.

A

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 12:00 PM

get well soon

I hope you find the courage to particpate in citizenship, or in the absense of any concern for current events, that you find the means to submerge yourself in unknowing bliss. I am all in favor of you being free to live life as you wish.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 11:54 AM

Why doesn't everyone just forget about Bush here on the cat ... everywhere one goes today the topic somes up regarding Bush, with friends, peeple at work, on the news . He's just too much in our face these days ... why waste time and fill ourselves up with so much negative energy over the asshole (and his cronies). What's all the debating going to do ... day after day after day and what is accomplished. Enough to make one sick, if not mean (and that is quite evident).

sIx

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:52 AM

Aye the specter of totalitariamism does make this an unpleasant place.

Get used to it.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:37 AM

Actually Hrothgar there are just too many of them, and with the hate and paranoia threads surrounding them, it makes this place unpleasant, frankly not as nice a place to visit as it once was. But perhaps it has become a place where the few rule and control the many.

Yours, Aye. Dave (who spends less time here because of it)

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 10:16 AM

Hear, hear.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 04:05 AM

No need to give Bush a special section - he doesn't deserve the honour.

Bush threads are rarely disguised - if you don't like reading about him - don't open them.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Jan 06 - 02:52 AM

Thanks, Jerry.

You're right. Protest songs are folk songs but folk songs are not necessarity protest songs.

I definitely had Country Joe and the Fish on my mind.

I still don't think Bush deserves a special place.

Not all threads start out by talking about Bush but if its about politics, it inevitably ends up about Bush.

I think what you are saying is no more political threads. Right?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Kaleea
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 04:34 PM

I campaigned for Kirk & Spock, who suggested that dubblepew/cheney & their band of oily critters be transported where they belong--into outer space with no space suits. It's the logical thing to do.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 03:18 PM

As I recall there were a few folk songs about politics from the Colonial era, too, like "Yankee Doodle" and "Ye Sons of Liberty".

Something about the encroachment of tyrannical rule.

But, hey, if some folksingers don't care about that, y'all can wait until later.

A

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 03:11 PM

I have been known to make a post or two about Bush. I have even made a couple cartoons about the guy.

Why?

Because I think he is Hitler or Stalin?

No.

Because I think we are headed into a totalitarian regieme in the next 4 years?

No.

Actually I believe that the course toward a totalitarian take over of the United States is so desireable to huge money interests, that the strategy toward corporate fascism in the United States is actually designed to move deliberately and slowly over the course of 4 to 7 generations.

The stage is being set ever so slowly. Slow enough so the average sleeping American will not notice. Peice meal enough to justify the loss of minscule freedoms one after another.

For the patriotic compatriots who feel as I feel and fear as I fear, I wish them the courage and stamina to keep up their vigil and protest despite the limitations of time and life itself.

It can happen here. It has happened here... Just more slowly than many would have you believe.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 02:31 PM

I'd be just as happy for another category for argument and flaming in general, unmoderated. I don't believe Max would think he owes that to anyone though, or that Mudcat should be THE place for it. It is now, but I can't see special consideration be given to fighting just to get it out of other areas.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 01:36 PM

Unforgettable:

Unreliable in every way
And confused as hell
That's how he'll stay
That's why its so damn incredible
when someone so unelectable
thinks God chose him,
He's delusional too

You're detestable that's what you are
Reprehensible in peace or war
Like recounts that were denied to us
You invent a war and ask for trust
Never before
Has some one been more..

Misunderestimatable and such a whore
To neocons who wish for war
While men and storms are attacking us
You're vacationing and forgetting us
George double U
You verbally challenged us too.

Unforgivable, that's what you are
for the death you cause, here or far
You're above the law just like a king
then you say let freedom ring
everything you do
is for those who have more

Undeserving wealth
Through crime and stealth.
War profiteers, are in good health.
But when it comes to those in need
there is no room in your world of greed
Will we afford like you
a vaccine for bird flu?

Unbelievable, that's what you are
You tracked Osama,
but now he's gone
then voila you accomplished it
you found Saddam in a spider pit
and an oil war
we all should ignore.

Because Saddam is more
Detestable than you.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:59 PM

"How can I put this:

The Mudcat is, to re-quote Wilson, 'A broad church'. Bush has done a number of things that generate much discussion. Would it be useful to put all the Bush stuff in a place of it's own?"

I have just read all the posts so far and feel like about 25 people have been shouting at each other and some are not listening (B Dylan 1964?)

As you can see from my first post I did not suggest that the discussion about Bush politics be censored or hidden but put in another section, pro, anti and uncertain.

Their seems to be a good reason for putting all the BS stuff together, I guess it makes folk stuff easier to look through. I enjoy some of the BS stuff but not much new seems to appear about Bush and on many occaisions you people are shouting and not listening and I would like to know where you are doing it so I don't have to go there unless I choose.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:19 PM

We have free speech zones for protestors...
and Camp Freedom for political prisoners...
so why not a special section for whackos who are afraid of crypto fascism?

Then maybe we need a Camp GWB (Guilty Whistle Blowers) for blabbing traitors and a Camp Liberty for the treasonous journalists who print the whistle blower tripe, afterall we don't want to let them mix.

Here at mudcat there also needs to be seperation of true Christians from the unwashed non believers and infidels.

This country was founded on good old fashioned fears such as Negro Rule and misogination. We should fear the Bush posts and keep them in a special place if only to remind us that there are domestic enemies right here in America who need to find Jesus.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 12:09 PM

It would be nice if all the Bush threads could be put into a seperate category. You could label it the BBS section (Bullshit Bush Section)

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 10:19 AM

Jerry:

Just a few political folksongs, off the top of my head, which predate the 1940's by from 100 to 400 years...


Ho, Brother Teague, hast heard the decree?
Lily Bulena, Bulena la!
That we are to have a new deputy!
Lily Bulena, Bulena la.....


My Geordie will be hanged from a golden chain
'Tis not the chain of many,
Stole sixteen of the King's own deer
And sold them in Bohenie....

We are a band of brothers, and native to the soil
Fighting for the liberty we gained by honest toil...


Speed, bonnie boat, like a bird on the wing!
Onward, the sailors cry.
Carry the lad who was born to be King,
Over the sea to Skye.

Many others come to mind, but you get the idea....

A

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 09:44 AM

What folks in DC say about it (click)

A

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Alba
Date: 03 Jan 06 - 06:17 AM

Righty o Bobad. Thanks for the info
I also managed to press submit with a typo...."since"   (wince..lol)
'Sing' was the word I intended...and was a tongue in cheek reply of course.

Jude...still with a **BG**

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 10:35 PM

"Maybe Folk Singers that do not sing Political Songs since about other Folk!!..**BG**"

politic (adj.) Look up politic at Dictionary.com
    1427, from M.Fr. politique (14c.) "political," from L. politicus "of citizens or the state, civil, civic," from Gk. politikos "of citizens or the state," from polites "citizen," from polis "city" (see policy (1)). Replaced in most adj. senses by political (1551). The verb meaning "to engage in political activity" is first recorded 1917, a back-formation from politics.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:39 PM

I whole-heartedly agree, Jerry... Might of fact, the song is the celebration and the escape from the politics... It's like "time out" for refreshemnt and telling of stories and for giving praise to God, to our friends, to ciucumstance and to the celebartion of our humanity...

"Joyfull voices" from the Bible *literally* translates to singing....

Bobert

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:39 PM

Political songs are a double edged sword - they have to be good to work. Anything that becomes didactic loses its creativity. As in art, where painting can be degraded to storytelling, yes, it tells a story but can be pedestrian. Art and music dominated by politics means politics wins.

Music is life flowing on unrestricted, unfettered.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:29 PM

Ballads have traditionally NOT been about politics... they've been murder ballads, natural disaster ballads, lost love ballads, etc.. The whole concept of folk music being political may be true from the 40's on, when "protest" songs were the primary form of writing. I've heard bluegrass fans complain that they don't want to sit around listening to folksingers constantly complaining about their situation and their country. Neither do I. Folk music is a reflection of all aspects of everyday life... politics being only a small part.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 09:17 PM

Nice tree, Beezer... I like those Rhodo typr long leaves... Think it will grow in Zone 5-A???

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 08:35 PM

Well, here's my special bush CLICK.

It's a Florida Anise Tree (Illicium floridanum). It looks quite similar to the much more common Florida Sweetbay (Magnolia virginiana) but can be distinguished by crushing a sample leaf in the hand and sniffing it. A Sweetbay leaf has little if any odor while an Anise Tree leaf gives off the distinct odor of anise or licorice.

Okay, I know it's not all that special, but it's special to me. Sure, there are other bushes that are or have been special to me as well, but if I talk about them some Clone may close this thread.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 07:56 PM

"Oh, well, here we go on another harangue about censorship."

Huh?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:43 PM

special Bush piccies

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:37 PM

Nice tap dance, dianavan. The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is a non-political folk ballad. So are a million other non-political folk songs. I stay away from political folk songs. I know them and as a rule, I don't like many of them.

I don't read the garbage Amos writes here about Bush. I did at first and then realized it was the writings of a sick puppy with his own agenda.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:35 PM

Oh, well, here we go on another harangue about censorship. Knowing dumbya et al will never be relegated to the Delete bin, I'll just say it's time to remind ourselves we can use the "filter out" button to free our own BS section from any "Bush" titled thread AND anything by MG or anyone else, for that matter.

Quite pleasant when one does that, actually. (I keep forgetting about it!) :->

kat

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:30 PM

Should Bush threads be seperated out?

NO!!!!

What, next thing ya' know you'll have them so hidden that no one can find them...

Sounds like a Bushite idea since they don't wnat any more attention brought to the failings of their guy...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:13 PM

Ya know, I really apologize for boring anyone who finds my posts on Bush boring; but I think his influence is something any folkie should keep a sharp eye on. They don't do folks songs in Egypt, Land of Denial.

But, feel free not to read them, please!

If anything, I think your rancor might better be directed toward those who insist on making brawls and cow-pie contests out of discussions, garbage mouths and guttersnipes.

A

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 06:05 PM

Those certainly are topics for folk songs. I'm wondering, however, specifically about ballads. Aren't they often political? Maybe I'm just thinking about Irish ballads.

If you take the politics out of the BS section, whats left?

Religion?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Once Famous
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 05:50 PM

dianavan said a little ways up:

"I just wonder about folk singers who are uninterested in politics.

What do you sing about?"


In answer to your question, dianavan:

Lost highways
railroads
wanderlust
Marvelous Toys
trucks
relationships
people who lived before us
Working
Great lakes and rivers
great places of the past
Native Americans
cities

Now what else do you want to know what to sing about, dianavan? You were just taought a big lesson by me about folk music. Now what else do you need to learn?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Alba
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 04:05 PM

...but Peace if we avoided all the Threads with Bush as the Topic or at least being brought into them... then there would be no threads to avoid!!...***BG***
Jude

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 03:55 PM

After a 'special' section for Bush, then there could be a special section for lesbos and gays; and Christians and Muslims and Jews; and, and, and.

Malvina Reynolds - Little Boxes

Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes made of tickytacky
Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes all the same
There's a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses all went to the university
Where they were put in boxes and they came out all the same,
And there's doctors and there's lawyers, and business executives
And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course and drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children and the children go to school
And the children go to summer camp and then to the university
Where they are put in boxes and they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business and marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Peace
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 03:52 PM

So, put Bush in his own section, then maybe next we can tell people what they may or may not post. Wouldn't it be easier for folks who dislike certain topics to avoid those threads?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Alba
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 03:46 PM

Yes Villian...absolutely:>)
Oh and include Mulberry on that list too.
Hey Dianavan. Maybe Folk Singers that do not sing Political Songs since about other Folk!!..**BG**
Best of Wishes
Jude

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 03:37 PM

I've said this before but I'll say it again: Folk music has traditionally relied on political events for their ballads. If you can't find enough material here to write a few protest songs, where are you gonna find it?

I have given this additional thought and wonder if the absence of ballads about present day events is a result of our heavy reliance of visual media in this day and age. Perhaps the ballad was a way preserving history in the oral tradition. It was necessary but today we have t.v. and computers so now we don't need to sing about it.

I just wonder about folk singers who are uninterested in politics.

What do you sing about?

Subject: RE: Special Bush section on Mudcat
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Jan 06 - 03:35 PM

Would this include Kate Bush, Basil Bush, Down At The Old Bull and Bush - da ra ra ra