BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches

Subject: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 05:57 PM

From a website of one of the Baptist denominations which will be supporting Justice Sunday III comes the following press release. As far as I am concerned, any church which carries out such activities should lose its tax exempt status. They are funnelling millions into campaigns for ultra-conservative candidates and causes.

For interesting stuff about the "Sky Angel" network which will carry this broadcast, please read the posting by "dogemporer" about "dominionism" and the media at DefCon-Campaign to defend the Constitution.

From the first website mentioned:

PHILADELPHIA (BP)--One day before the Senate begins confirmation hearings on Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito, conservatives will gather in Philadelphia for another "Justice Sunday," hoping to put the spotlight once again on socially liberal court rulings.

"Justice Sunday III: Proclaim Liberty Throughout the Land" will take place Sunday, Jan. 8, at Greater Exodus Baptist Church in Philadelphia, and will be broadcast nationwide to other churches on Christian television and radio. It is scheduled to begin at 7 p.m. ET.

The broadcast will feature several speakers, including Focus on the Family's James Dobson and Sen. Rick Santorum, R.-Pa.

It is the third such broadcast within the past year. Last April, the first Justice Sunday was held amidst a Senate showdown over judicial filibusters. And last August, the second Justice Sunday was held on the eve of then-Supreme Court nominee John Roberts' confirmation hearings.

The rallies have served to inform and equip conservative Americans about the need to reform the federal courts, particularly the U.S. Supreme Court, which in the past four decades has legalized abortion, ordered the removal of Ten Commandments plaques and banned prayer in certain public settings. Conservatives fear the court eventually will take up a "gay marriage" case.

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, noted that the broadcast's theme, "Proclaim Liberty Throughout the Land," is engraved on the Liberty Bell, which is located in Philadelphia just a short distance from Independence Hall.

"We are appealing to pastors to become involved before militant atheists and their judicial activist allies sandblast those words from Leviticus from the bell itself," Perkins said in his daily FRC e-mail.

Alito's nomination has drawn praise from pro-family leaders. While FRC has not officially endorsed Alito, it has called for fair hearings. A statement from FRC said that in nominating Alito, President Bush "followed through with his promise to promote a strict constructionist."

In addition to Dobson and Santorum, other speakers scheduled to speak at the rally include Perkins; Herbert Lusk, pastor of Greater Exodus Baptist Church; Wellington Boone, bishop of The Father's House (Atlanta); Jerry Falwell, Liberty University; Alveda C. King, niece of Martin Luther King Jr. and founder of King for America.

Justice Sunday III is scheduled to be broadcast live on Sky Angel, American Family Radio and Bott Radio Network, and on tape-delay (10 p.m. ET) on Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN). It also will be simulcast live over the Internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:00 PM

Myself, I think that ALL churches should pay some sort of tax. After all, they receive the benefits -- these include, at least at the city level, fire and police protection.

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:01 PM

Should have included this: DefConAmerica home page. Be sure to watch the videos listed under ALERTS.

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:11 PM

Proclaim Liberty to All Who See the Light is a slightly different twist than Jefferson and Company envisioned, I would reckon.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 12:02 AM

Revoke tax-exempt for political churches

Just send all the offenders to Pat Robertson's church, then explain to them that the revocation was one of two choices God had for punishing them for their sins-- the other, of course, being slightly more Old-Testament in nature. :~) Zap! Sizzle!

No, really, I agree that their free ride should be yanked. They give the rest of us who do actually HELP people, a real bad name. And they make Christian radio a joke-- there's less and less music and more and more ranting.

Best of all-- by yanking it, it would mean that members tithing could no longer claim THAT as a deduction-- there's be quite a ripple effect, and in short order. Zap! Sizzle!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 02:05 AM

There are two essential requirements for being tax exempt in the US. Neither of them has anything in particular to do with being "godly."

The first requirement is that you be a "not for profit" person or organization.

The second requirement is that you be a non-political organization.

The exemption of "churches" and appropriately designated "persons acting in a religious capacity" is by regulations that impute both of the two cited "properties" as being "inherent" in such use of property and/or business/profession. A person or organization that fails to conform to the behaviour assumed in the civil definition of a "church," a "ministor," "pastor," or "priest," etc., by using his position, his property, or his organization for profit and/or by using his position, his property, or his organization for political action loses any basis for qualification for exemption from taxation.

Numerous non-profit organizations, when affected by political action and attempting to take a political stance, have been threatened with revocation of non-profit status. Any action attempting to influence legislation or attempting to substantially influence popular opinion on political issues has been held to be a violation of nonprofit/nonpolitical qualification for tax exemption. In a large number of cases, possibly a majority, they have been forced to incorporate or otherwise charter an associated political/lobbying organization entirely separate, distinct, and carefully walled off from their non-profit activities with respect to being separately funded, separated with respect to holding property, and separated with respect to advertising or advocating their political opinions.

CHURCHES and "preachers" are the only ones thus far not prosecuted for violations of this separation.

Failure to treat a "nonprofit church" exactly the same as any other nonprofit organization IS AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, in the sense of the FIRST AMENDMENT to the US Constitution and is a failure of government to uphold the same laws for all.

Exempting religious organizations who practice political advocacy from the same laws that govern any other organization attempting to influence legislative and political processes to obtain particular political actions IS AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, in the sense of the FIRST AMENDMENT, and must be limited or regulated on the same basis as for other groups.

The regulations restricting all other kinds of organizations are quite specific and should be applied equally to the pulpits.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 10:30 AM

How about some balanced opinions about religious activism?

Lately, there has been much gnashing of teeth in the media and on liberal talk radio about Protestant preachers urging their megaflocks to get involved in the fight against abortion on demand. There has also been a good amount of muttering about Republicans using churches to promote the vote--up or down--on a few of President Bush's nominees to the federal bench. And of course, there is ever more screaming about what secret plans the new Pope might have for controlling American Catholics in their views on abortion and homosexuality.

All of this, it is darkly hinted, is a violation of the Constitutional bans on the Establishment of a religion, a new and sinister development in political life, and a threat to the Republic.

What foolishness. Who was was leading the marchers heading towards the Pettus Bridge in ( or near ) Selma, Alabama forty years ago during the heyday of the Civil Rights movement? Ministers and nuns in clerical garb. Who was there in Birmingham? Again, men and women of the cloth. What was the greatest political/moral figure of the twentieth century in America? A Protestant minister, Martin Luther King, Jr.

Who was leading us from the pulpit, sounding out fury at the seemingly endless Vietnam war? The Reverend William Sloan Coffin, a minister of the Gospel. Who was at all of the anti-war marches? Ministers and priests and rabbis. No one was complaining about that, for some reason.

Who thundered against slavery and urged on the Civil War? Henry Ward Beecher and other men of faith in the north.

This is what has always been going on in political life in America. The political is the moral. And the moral is the political.

Men and women of faith have always been involved in political/moral issues as long as there has been politics and as long as there has been religion. (Think of Moses urging the politically explosive issue of freeing the children of Israel from bondage, or of Jesus telling followers it was fine to pay taxes to Caesar.)

The only new thing is that now it's conservatives marching for life and preaching for life, not ministers marching for civil rights or disarmament. But surely men and women of the cloth are not just allowed but commanded to assert their moral beliefs on issues of supreme importance. Men and women who wear the cloth do not check their first amendment rights and their moral duties when they take their vows. They never have, and they never will. And we are far better for it

Ben Stein

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 10:43 AM

Can't debate with your own words, huh, Guest? There is a big difference to what Stein claims, these days. IN fact, I find his argument naive. The dominionists' goal is to take over our government, which they have had some success at, NOT to ensure freedom of/from religion for all; NOT to ensure civil rights for all, in fact they would take away the civil rights of all who oppose them, esp. women and homosexuals.

The difference includes the way the use their money and they have millions and millions. They are basically corporations, acting like any corporation would to peddle influence in Washington DC, etc.

If anyone doubts such things, read last month's issue of MOTHER JONES, devoted entirely to the Christian Right. You could start by reading A Nation Under God.

Thanks, JohninKS, for your posting.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 11:25 AM

Well Kat i'm not an American, so I read your ideas and other peoples in a vain attempt at understanding the issue. Why it should offend you I dont know, but you all seem to have a rabid dislike of visitors to this site.

From what I have seen and read about the subject it is hardly surprising that the Christian Right is mobilizing against what it regards as a biased and flagrantly anti Christian attack on the religion of the vast majority of people in America.

Must admit you seem to have a large number of very kooky tele- Evangelicalist Christians in your country. I suppose that the reality of living with this must boil your knickers a bit?

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: leftydee
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 12:47 PM

There's no better way to "rally the troops " than make them fell persecuted. This supposed attack on christianity is a politcal tool used by the right wing thugs to keep the foot soldiers in line. It's difficult to listen to the logic of the other side when you're under attack. The Bushies understand the principle perfectly.

The truth is that christians have always been in charge here and still are. Rallying the troops over wedge issues like womens choice and gay marriage is strictly a distraction to keep christians eye off little stuff like the death penalty, immoral war and the destruction of the middle class. Any real christian would support universal health care. Instead, they fret about boys kissing boys. Gimme a break. Wake up you thick skulled idiots, do what Jesus would do.

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 02:17 PM

"Vain attempt," yet you then go on to make a sweeping judgement. Whatever.

Thanks, leftydee...good points.

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 08:13 PM

No one was complaining about that, for some reason.

I'm pretty sure some people were.

Do political parties get taxed in the USA? I don't think they do in many countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 08:49 PM

Problem, GUEST, is that the Christian Right is neither...

They run from the New Testament "like pigs from a gun" with the exception of Revelations, which they have twisted into a story where all Christians will be taken leabving the Earth to heathens... (otherwise known as the rapture)...

As a follower of Christ, I have asked many of these folks to explain the specifics of this belief and to date all I've gotten is the sdame pat answer, "I'll get you some literature..."

Like big whup, "some literature"??????????

Give my Christian butt a break...

Hey, if you have a belief system then you oughtta be able to spit it out on demand... Not this, "I'll get back to ya' with some literature"....

But 99% of the churches we are talking about who use their pulpits as politcal soap boxes preach "rapture".... Okay, maybe 100%...

Like why should these politicans, in sheeep clothes, be tax exempt????

They absolutely shouldn't.... They want to teach the word of my Lord, Jesus Christ, maybe a different story but until then, pay up!!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 09:04 PM

The holy church of the tax exempt apostles was a bone of contention until Constantine came to power.

and he taxed the the hell out of the church.
Afterall he made it the state religion/government of ROME.

my favourite church here http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/church-signa.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: leftydee
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 01:10 PM

Well said, Bobert. I started life as a methodist and even felt a calling to the ministry until I realized, at 18, that the congregation I belonged to was a racist organization. I moved on to a baptist church that, after long discussions, wasn't convinced that I could be saved as I'd been sprinkled at my baptism. Their God seemed a lot too narrow for me. I ignored churches for many years then fell in with the catholics as their social conscience ( support of the UFW) at the time worked very well for me. It didn't take long to be disenchanted. I now am no christian but call myself an admirer of Jesus. I use him as an example of how to live and share a good life. I have written off the Old Testament, nice stories but......If I were to believe it I wouldn't have had bacon for breakfast and would be wearing my earlocks.I think it's all or nothing. I'm surprized at how the very devout pick and choose from the O.T. those things that support their prejudices. Revelations? Well ... I lived thru the 60s and get what thats about. So I will continue to be an Admirer of Jesus and consider "what would Jesus Do?" though I'll never be a christian. I'm quite sure the Jesus that I admire would be pretty disappointed in a lot of his "followers". Today's right wing chritians need to get their head out of the old testament and wrapped around the life of Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 01:49 PM

I once came across a woman wandering up and down in a Home Depot parking lot looking for her car -- a mystified look on her face that you see fairly often in big retail parking lots. I gave her a sympathetic smile -- I have been there many times looking for my own misplaced car -- and she allowed as how her car had been "Raptured!!".

I had never heard the word used as an adjective before. Talk about a weird and contorted notion of the universe....well, anyway it was pretty surprising.

Kinda gives you pause...


As for the taxation of organization, I think a uniform ten percent tax on all entities who use highways and Federal services would be a fine idea; poor, rich, church, foundation, or research center.

I'd add a COnstitutional amendment asserting the freedom of all citizens from any tax greater than fifteen per cent of annual revenues and leave the five for states and counties and towns to argue over.

Federal revenues would increase, and the lower tax margins would stimulate new investment, and we'd be on a roll....

Of course, there would be hundreds of IRS employees with nothing to do since the complex Code of Taxation would be abolished. But I think we could find employment for them auditing all branches of the Federal government for waste, fraud, misallocation of funds and hidden politicking.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Revoke tax-exempt for political churches
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 12:04 AM

My daughter has a bumper sticker that says, "Come the Rapture, can I have your car?!"