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BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved

wysiwyg 07 Jan 06 - 11:01 AM
Clinton Hammond 07 Jan 06 - 11:07 AM
Bill D 07 Jan 06 - 11:12 AM
wysiwyg 07 Jan 06 - 11:39 AM
Hardiman the Fiddler 07 Jan 06 - 01:59 PM
My guru always said 07 Jan 06 - 05:36 PM
michaelr 08 Jan 06 - 12:44 AM
Bat Goddess 08 Jan 06 - 09:32 AM
Jeri 08 Jan 06 - 10:51 AM
wysiwyg 08 Jan 06 - 10:52 AM
Skipjack K8 08 Jan 06 - 04:03 PM
GUEST 08 Jan 06 - 05:38 PM
wysiwyg 08 Jan 06 - 07:11 PM
GUEST 08 Jan 06 - 11:21 PM
wysiwyg 08 Jan 06 - 11:52 PM
Helen 09 Jan 06 - 12:17 AM
PoppaGator 09 Jan 06 - 12:45 AM
bet 09 Jan 06 - 06:38 PM
Bill D 09 Jan 06 - 10:07 PM
Helen 14 Jan 06 - 09:33 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 14 Jan 06 - 10:09 PM
wysiwyg 08 Feb 07 - 10:50 AM
JudyB 09 Feb 07 - 06:53 PM
GUEST,JTT 09 Feb 07 - 07:02 PM
Metchosin 10 Feb 07 - 12:57 AM
wysiwyg 10 Feb 07 - 09:56 AM
Metchosin 10 Feb 07 - 12:17 PM
wysiwyg 10 Feb 07 - 12:32 PM
The Villan 10 Feb 07 - 12:40 PM
Metchosin 10 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM
Bill D 10 Feb 07 - 01:07 PM
Metchosin 10 Feb 07 - 01:30 PM
wysiwyg 10 Feb 07 - 01:32 PM
Metchosin 10 Feb 07 - 01:53 PM
The Fooles Troupe 10 Feb 07 - 06:19 PM
My guru always said 11 Feb 07 - 05:34 AM
JohnInKansas 11 Feb 07 - 08:09 AM
Bagpuss 11 Feb 07 - 02:17 PM
wysiwyg 11 Feb 07 - 03:26 PM
Jack Campin 11 Feb 07 - 05:42 PM
IWTATBM 12 Feb 07 - 02:44 PM
wysiwyg 12 Feb 07 - 03:05 PM
IWTATBM 12 Feb 07 - 03:24 PM
wysiwyg 12 Nov 07 - 10:35 AM
wysiwyg 29 Nov 07 - 09:28 AM
mg 30 Nov 07 - 12:20 AM
wysiwyg 30 Nov 07 - 12:12 PM
Donuel 30 Nov 07 - 12:23 PM
Uncle_DaveO 30 Nov 07 - 12:51 PM
dick greenhaus 30 Nov 07 - 05:57 PM
Rumncoke 30 Nov 07 - 08:36 PM
wysiwyg 27 Sep 08 - 02:23 PM
wysiwyg 30 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM
wysiwyg 17 Oct 08 - 11:19 AM
Donuel 17 Oct 08 - 11:41 AM
MAG 17 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM
wysiwyg 29 Nov 09 - 06:43 AM
wysiwyg 29 Nov 09 - 03:00 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Nov 09 - 03:05 PM
wysiwyg 29 Nov 09 - 03:06 PM
Mysha 29 Nov 09 - 04:03 PM
Bonzo3legs 29 Nov 09 - 04:10 PM
wysiwyg 29 Nov 09 - 04:15 PM
Mysha 29 Nov 09 - 04:46 PM
wysiwyg 29 Nov 09 - 07:38 PM
wysiwyg 01 Jan 10 - 10:14 PM
Donuel 01 Jan 10 - 11:47 PM
wysiwyg 02 Jan 10 - 12:12 AM
wysiwyg 13 Sep 10 - 09:04 AM
Wolfhound person 13 Sep 10 - 09:28 AM
Jack Campin 13 Sep 10 - 09:36 AM
wysiwyg 13 Sep 10 - 11:44 AM
Jim Dixon 13 Sep 10 - 12:55 PM
wysiwyg 13 Sep 10 - 01:20 PM
GUEST,Patsy 14 Sep 10 - 04:51 AM
wysiwyg 14 Sep 10 - 09:22 AM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Sep 10 - 11:18 AM
wysiwyg 19 Sep 10 - 08:39 AM
The Fooles Troupe 20 Sep 10 - 03:07 AM
wysiwyg 05 Feb 11 - 11:21 AM
Dorothy Parshall 05 Feb 11 - 05:30 PM
wysiwyg 06 Feb 11 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,Patsy 07 Feb 11 - 06:41 AM
Dorothy Parshall 07 Feb 11 - 03:29 PM
wysiwyg 21 Nov 13 - 09:53 PM
wysiwyg 01 Nov 18 - 12:56 PM
Donuel 01 Nov 18 - 04:15 PM
Mr Red 02 Nov 18 - 03:39 AM
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Subject: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 11:01 AM

This is to people who live with (or care about) someone who seems to become someone else in the wintertime. I'm addressing this to you because once the SAD hits, the sufferer is not likely to be able to take the steps outlined below. But if you do what Hardi did for me yesterday, you may see your old springtime pal return early.

We now have an old chrome mic stand with a cheap 4' fluorescent fixture cable-tied to it, with a pair of full-spectrum bulbs. It's been a grim and hard pull these last few months. Today I am ALIVE. I'll ask Hardi to post the specs on what bulbs to get, later.

The light-stand is stashed so I have to walk around it to get to my recliner and wake-up cup of tea. Even the gloom and confusion of months didn't make me walk past the switch without hitting it. The light was irritating for about 10 minutes, and then I began to yawn and yawn as my body relaxed in the knowledge it was getting what it needed. I sat by this light for about an hour and then I got restless.

There's a bounce in my step for the first time I can recall in a long time. I'm creative, focused, and able to DO the things I know I need to do. And certain other, um.... "spously activities" seem suddenly interesting. :~) (Oh, yeah.... Yes! I remember THAT!)

We may go to a bank of 4 bulbs, or we may put a second 2-bulb unit upstairs in my spa-furnished dressing room-- or both.

I believe, since we had already the heavy-bottomed mic stand, we have spent less than 30 bucks.

Gratefully,

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 11:07 AM

It's amazing what the power of positive thinking can do eh


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 11:12 AM

Indeed it is, Clinton.....but in this case there are sound bio-technical explanations for part of the phenomenon. Many of the 'lower' animals have clear responses to variations in light...but we 'advanced' humans can't easily migrate OR hibernate.

(Thanks, Susan)


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 11:39 AM

That's right, Bill. It's part of our circadian rhythm. It affects all light-sensing species I know of. Chickens (and other birds) depend on light of a certain number of hours in order to lay eggs. In fact our flock was put into an artificial winter laying season several years running, using a timer to control their lighting.

Hm-- CH!!! ;~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Hardiman the Fiddler
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 01:59 PM

I've done a fair amount of research on this topic and have used full-spectrum lighting in my office for the last 5+ years. Daylight when passed through a prism reveals that it is made up of the variety of colors found in the rainbow. Full spectrum light emulates this quality of light. Typical incandescent lighting--the normal lightbulb spikes as yellow--with none of the other parts of the spectrum. That's why on a winter night if you stand outside the house the light looks yellow coming through the windows. Halogen, also popular also spikes in the yellow range.

It was suggested that I post the specs on the lighting. Not all bulbs that claim to be natural sunlight meet these specs. Specifically, the CRI needs to be above 90. The CRI is a measure of how the light compares to actual sunlight on a vibrantlly sunny day in the summer. The closer to 100, the better--and also the more expensive.

Another way of measuring light is in degrees Kelvin, which I do not fully understand, but full spectrum is considered to be 5000K.

The specs on the light that WYSIWYG is using are:
Philips T 12 40 Watts, with an output of 2200 lumens with a CRI (the package says of 92 and 5000K. Prices vary, but these were about $7 each at the local Home Depot.

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: My guru always said
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 05:36 PM

I've had what's called a 'daylight bulb' in my angle-poise lamp for years now as it used to help me with my embroidery before my eyesight got a bit too iffy. Don't know the tech stuff, but maybe it's been helping me without my knowledge?


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 12:44 AM

Please say what SAD is the acronym for. It's driving me crazy!

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 09:32 AM

Seasonal Affective Disorder

I don't have the problem, but I know for a fact it's very very real.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 10:51 AM

I worked for a commander/flight surgeon who studied circadian rhythm. Mostly, he was interested in sleep cycles since that was more pertinent to pilots, and full spectrum light was a possible way to keep night shift workers awake and alert.

Please note that UV light can damage your eyes, whether it's from the sun or from a bulb.

I wonder how SAD affects people who can't see: if it DOES affect them and whether light works for them. I wonder if the light has an effect other than the visual and we just notice the visual component because we CAN see.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 10:52 AM

Seasonal
Affective
Disorder

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 04:03 PM

I've got a massive dose right now. We did a 13 day flit to Oz for Christmas and New Year, and stayed in a sub tropical paradise. I've been back in dark, dank, cold, drizzly Britain for 6 days now, and the combination of very debilitating jet lag and what feels like SAD just makes me want to repack my bags and head for the airport.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 05:38 PM

Remember its the pituitary and several other centers in the brain that need to be "tricked" into a new season.

Like forcing flowering you need to pay attention to the timing of the lights and not just the lights themselves.
Early morning lights around the time mid Spring sunrise would be highly advised.

The optic nerve is what triggers the other centers and not merely the skin so don't wear goggles - on the other hand - (if the ultraviolet is strong you never want to just stare at the lights).

The wavelenghths that help reset the bio clock are toward the ultra violet but the warm infra reds sure feel nice.

I use a little floor model verilux with a flexible arm very close to the face. Its not powerful but its true color sunshine right out of the box for about $60 to $90.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 07:11 PM

Some bulbs (more properly called "lamps") are of a lower CRI AND emit no UV. The tradeoff is the loss of the FULL spectrum, but these BROAD spectrum lights are brighter, to compensate. Some experts think that's the better tradeoff, and that the brightness is more important the the blue color lost in most lighting that is not full-spectrum.

Some SAD lightboxes come with a UV-blocking diffuser. My glasses already have UV coating, so I'm going with what I have for now, but we are going to also get a pair of the type mentioned above and see what the difference actually is.

Some folks also say there are two types of SAD, which require different timing. One type needs early-morning light, and the other needs 3-7PM light. Some folks find a mix of the two works best for them; you have to see what's working and refine it for yourself.

This thread is not intended to replace one's own research and medical consulation. There are a lot of things to learn about all this. But-- if you live with a sufferer, try lighting them up for a day or two before asking them to read all the stuff available. :~) So they can comprehend it. :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 11:21 PM

just a couple light bulbs, huh? yer a cheap date...


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 11:52 PM

:~) Ah, cheap supplies,. yes.... but the LABOR! :~)

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Helen
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:17 AM

I don't know if this is relevant but I was reading about Vitamin D deficiency recently and the effect of sunlight on the skin can help the body to manufacture Vit D. So, if you were Vit D deficient and sat in the sun for a while it would have a positive effect without you having to actually see the sunlight if you were visually impaired.

Helen


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: PoppaGator
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 12:45 AM

Longer days with more sunlight are definitely something I need in order to maintain optimum mental health.

If you are a victim of SAD, consider doing for yourself what I did thirty-odd years ago: MOVE TO NEW ORLEANS!

Sure, the summer can be long and hot, sometimes even unbearable, but spring and fall (however brief) are absolutely delightful, and our subtropical winter features long days, usually sunny and mild.

Property will never be cheaper than it is right now; I know for a fact that lots right in my own neighborhood are now, or will soon be, available for a song. Rebuilding one of the world's great centers of commerce and culture will be quite an adventure. You'll learn things you never before imagined about how the human soul expresses itself in music, and the food's not bad either.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: bet
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 06:38 PM

Glad to read the discussion on SAD. When I moved to Alaska I wondered how the dark winters would effect me. Thank goodness I don't seen to be affected. I am told that if you go to the doc because you're feeling down or just not right they put you under the light first thing. We gained 13 minutes of day light today! We now have just over 4 hour of light, the long days are coming!!! bet


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 10:07 PM

gee, PoppaGator...last time I was in New Orleans, I waded out...and lost all my comic books. I see they haven't 'quite' solved the problem yet.....call me when they've spent that 40 billion on the RIGHT levee system. (And for those who are brave and staying, I sincerely hope the next few storm seasons are gentle.)


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Helen
Date: 14 Jan 06 - 09:33 PM

Saturday, January 14, 2006. 9:33pm (AEDT)
SAD Londoners offered enlightening cure
Sun-deprived Londoners are flocking to a new cafe offering free light

By Kerri Ritchie in London

It seems that people in Britain are finally seeing the light.

Doctors there are recognising that people feel miserable at this time of year because of the shortage of sunlight.

It is estimated around five million people are suffering from some form of Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) during winter.

The recognised mental condition can cause a range of symptoms from lethargy to severe depression.

It is caused by a biochemical imbalance in the area of the brain which controls mood, appetite and sleep; 80 per cent of cases can be treated by exposure to bright light.

Now a new cafe in London claims to offer a cure for the wintertime blues.

At London's Science Museum the cafe has just opened where, along with their latte, customers receive a free, 20-minute light treatment.

Specially designed boxes on the wall make the room about half as bright as Bondi Beach on a summer's day.

"I definitely feel better, a lot more on the ball, a lot more with it," said one visitor after a session.

Many of those battling SAD say light therapy has transformed their lives.

"The light deals with the whole syndrome, the slow-downness," said SAD Association founder, Jennifer Eastwood.

Doctors are divided as to whether SAD is an actual condition or just a severe form of winter blues.

But for Australians in London, more used to sunshine and swimwear in January, the light lounge is a much cheaper option than a flight home.

"In Australia, even in winter people have a smile on their face, it's just really bad," said one Australian tourist.

Seasonal Affective Disorder is at its peak in February; not surprisingly, the cafe is already booked out.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200601/s1547656.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 Jan 06 - 10:09 PM

Not until the recent ten years have I acknoweldged SAD.

Yes....it it real....tried "light theropy" and it was useless.

Saint John's Wort, capsules 900mg for a total 1,800 mg twice a day helps. Teaspoon of herbal SJW bloosum tea twice at day is a good starter and ender.

For myself, the period is from Halloween to Valentine's Day. When the joy-juices begin flowing after the equinox....I could put a Satyr to shame....before.....just let me sleep....and sleep....and sleep.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:50 AM

A refinement this year is the re-arrangement of the living room furniture. I had to use the electric light approach for several days before I thought of it.... But one day, sitting in front of that in my recliner, I was looking at the pretty sun pattern on the wall across from me. And I remembered years ago, when we first moved into this house, the time when I first started playing my autoharp.

Those days, the furniture was arranged in a different way. I had my autoharp stand, then, in the very spot where I was now seeing the sun moving across the wall and the furniture in front of it. Now, I understood why I had so loved playing every morning! I didn't realize it then, but that had been the only spot in the house to catch full sun for an hour every morning. And yes.... it had been winter time when I took up the habit. For me, soaking up the full, rich autoharp sound I get by playing it tabletop, tilted up to me, came along with soaking up badly-needed sunlight. These two memories are tied together in my brain's synapses.

Needless to say I have now gotten the furniture moved so that I can once again sit in that spot. It has organized my whole day-- the sun splash there is brief, and I have to be there on time. I make sure to dish up the oatmeal from the crockpot, change into my un-tinted glasses, and get comfy to start the day listening to old radio shows the computer is kind enough to play for me. Faulkner curls up next to me in his own sunpool, on the floor. Even on a cloudy day, it is bright enough for that hour to get a good handle on starting the day. I consider it preventive maintenance.

This week's sitting time has gone to crocheting myself a colorful, warm neck scarf.

I've moved the electric faux sunligh onto the computer stand, beside the monitor and closer to my face, and I have changed my computer hour to later in the day, around sunset. This adds another hour or so of full-spectrum light to my day, at the very time of day I would more commonly get the dark-too-early heebie-jeebies.

Oddly enough, the hours between these two daily appointments I make with myself are going better than they were before! :~)

Thanks are due to Hardi for the electrics, the help moving furniture, and the willingness to have a winter room arrangement that looks like the sitting room at a run-down old-folks home.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: JudyB
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:53 PM

Thanks for refreshing and updating this thread, Susan! I've had a bug I just couldn't shake, and hadn't thought about the fact that lack of sunlight may be a factor. It's been very cold so I dash to the car fully bundled; the sun's the wrong angle to come into the house in early morning or the car on the drive to work; my little office has no windows; and it's dark when I get out of work.

I spent today at home in the sunny room, and feel better than I have all week. I was planning to stay home today if I wasn't feeling better - but if I hadn't read your thread, I'd probably have slept most of the day - and I think the hours I spent on the window seat reading and playing guitar may do more to help in the long run.

It's supposed to be at least partly sunny the next couple of days - we'll see what happens by Monday.

Thanks again,
JudyB


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:02 PM

It's not just light, though, it's also night work that wrecks your circadian rhythms.

All kinds of jobs that require night work - folk singer, journalist, firefighter, pilot, doctor, actor - have low life expectancies. Working at times we're not designed to work makes us pee and eat and sleep at times our body isn't designed for, and wrecks the bod.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:57 AM

While I believe that light therapy is beneficial, I'm also an advocate of good old vitamin D, in conjuction with it. According to the Mayo Clinic the following, so I am heartened to see I'm not entirely out to lunch:

"Seasonal affective disorder (SAD) is a form of depression that occurs during the winter months, possibly due to reduced exposure to sunlight. This condition is often treated with photo (light) therapy. In one study, a dose of 100,000 IU of vitamin D was found to be superior to light therapy in the treatment of SAD after one month. Further studies are necessary to confirm these findings."


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 09:56 AM

Good for you, Judy!

I'm finding that now that I've remeditaed the accumulating lack of sun of the last few weeks, when the electrics were just not bright enough, about a half hour is plenty to spark off quite the zippy day.

I also discovered that some insurance may pay for a therapeutic light box as durable medical equipment. The diagnostic manual that supplies the correct code number for SAD is hard to find, but it can be done. If the policy specifies durable medical equipment, some further checking may turn up the detail that a prescribed lightbox can be included on physician statement of medical necessity.

In everything I have read, phototherapy is still the first recommended line of treatment, with anti-depressants way down on the list of things to try.

Mets, some of us would need the sunlight even to get the idea we need to see the doc for him/her to tell us about the study. Sure, both have their place. But if D in those doses is artificial sunlight, why would one not try to go the natural method first? I get free sun. That much D-- I'd have to give up one of the pets we feed.

Now I understand the wording of this phrase: bright idea.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:17 PM

Just remember WYSIWYG, that window glass only permits about 5% of the UV in sunlight through and it is UV light that triggers the natural production of Vitamin D through the skin. Sitting in a window, if you are seeking all the benefits of natural sunlight, will do bugger all to increase levels of Vitamin D.

Another reason why, in earlier times, people of the very nothern extremes of our world, survived and thrived eating only fish and blubber during the long dark winter months, without falling into suicidal depressions.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:32 PM

Yes, adding D if the sunlight is not from being outside would make sense. But the AM sun does makes me go outside.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: The Villan
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:40 PM

Is this the same sort of light used for people with impaired vision. They need special lighting to help them see better when reading or doing close work.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM

WYSIWYG re excercise outdoors:

to quote one expert on northern living............"Good idea....".


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:07 PM

Interesting timing.....Just this morning I put a 60 watt full-spectrum bulb above the computer desk. My wife (Ferrara) got 2 of them when she got a fancy desk model for her writing desk. She had borrowed one last year and thought it helped.
(I am notoriously hard to convince, and usually don't 'feel' the differences when taking vitamins and using light therapy, etc....but there are many studies showing why it should make a difference, so I will pop my pills and turn on the light.....*smile*...we shall see.)


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:30 PM

It should also be noted that with the increase in the use of sunscreens, which effectuvely block UVB, hence, the natural production of vitamin D, our bodies require even more vitamin D from other sources, than we did in the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:32 PM

[shaking head]

Bill, Bill, BILL! Hang the bulb over the LATHE! Wherever you put it, there you shall find yourself spending more and more time.

But it's not like misteltoe. Or maybe it is.......

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Metchosin
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 01:53 PM

Villan, I have read that people with impaired vision or previous damage to their eyes, should be particularly wary of blue spectrum light. Perhaps the lights to which you refer, would not be full spectrum.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 06:19 PM

If I only had seal to eat, I'd blubber too!


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: My guru always said
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:34 AM

Thanks for bringing this thread back into the light Susan, it's clearly a help to us all!


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 08:09 AM

Now if there's more understanding of the other syndrome known as "yuppie flu" would someone also explain that one as well?

John


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Bagpuss
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 02:17 PM

Just to note that the lights used for SAD are not just ordinary full spectrum bulbs - which are not bright enough to help for SAD. They need to be high intensity lights in order to mimic the effects of natural daylight. I have had one for a few years and they really help. I also have a dawn simulation alarm clock which was also really helpful until I had kids who wake me up at an hour I would never consider setting my alarm for...


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 03:26 PM

Just to note that the lights used for SAD are not just ordinary full spectrum bulbs - which are not bright enough to help for SAD. They need to be high intensity lights in order to mimic the effects of natural daylight.

Yesssss.......... But it's the total light that affects SAD, not the intensity specifically, and it also depends on how much sun you're already getting. If I lived in a cave I might need espcially high brightness. But if you need only a certain amount to supplement the natural light that is almost enough-- full-spectrum bulbs of reasonable brightness can and do work. Not as FAST as a very-bright SAD lightbox, but if you can add them in such a way that you can have their use for several hours a day, the total light you get works out just fine.

Yes, when one gets a SAD lightbox, it is real, real bright. But it is not the only approach, just the quickest.

Think of it like this. I'm short on vitamin C-- I can take it in pill form and make it real convenient, or I can eat enough fruits and vegetables.

The natural approach can certainly be a workable option, if not a downright preference. It would not be the option of choice to reverse an emergency, but it can be a way of preventing one.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:42 PM

I made a lightbox for my gf, who has SAD to some extent; it used five compact fluorescent tubes in a housing lined with reflective foil. She later found a commercial product was easier to use - about the size of an iron, with a few dozen white LEDs. She could sit that beside her on the pillow, where my light box wouldn't safely fit.

This got me thinking about maybe a better way. Opaque spectacles to act as diffusers with a few battery-powered white LEDs attached to the front of each - less power but much closer to the eyes, so by the inverse square law the same effect. This would be far lighter and use less energy.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: IWTATBM
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 02:44 PM

Can anyone supply a direct link to a website selling the bulbs Hardiman was referring to i.e. Philips T 12 40 Watts, with an output of 2200 lumens with a CRI (the package says of 92 and 5000K)?.

Or an equivalent bulb will do. Preferably a UK link but I'll take a look at anywhere to get an idea!

Thanks v. much


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 03:05 PM

If you print the specs and take them to a lighting supplier, they should be able to get what you need. Some years we've gotten them cheap and easy; other years it's been harder to find (and pay for) them. But check with your local suppliers and you should find they can get them for you.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: IWTATBM
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 03:24 PM

Thanks - will do.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 10:35 AM

Just a reminder to those of you who need to supplement natural light-- it's that time again, so get your gear out and make sure it's ready for your blah-days, before they get you. If your computer screen and TV are looking WAY too attractive these days, you too may be seeking the blue light-- which indoor lighting usually doesn't include-- which newer research says is useful in smaller doeses than orignally thought.

For us it's gotten simpler-- at the start of hockey season it's easy to remember that it's time to rearrange the living room furniture, with the recliners closer to the heaters and TV screen and farther from the big, drafty window. That room arrangement also puts a comfy chair right in line with the fall/winter blazing AM sun, and last year's black recliner has been replaced by a velour, salmon-toned wing chair. When the light hits it, it's so pretty that it calls to me, and I have a magazine supply handy to keep me in that chair for the right amount of time. Across from that chair is the full-spectrum fluoro tower, for gray days.

Next to the puder is a desk lamp with full-spectrum bulbs, aimed at my face. There's about 600 watts of kitchen light reflecting off the white enamel island. The whole downstairs is BRIGHT.

Out in our picking/play/classroom that is seldom used in the colder months, this week we'll move our treadmill and Hardi's bike trainer (facing the west window), with another full-spectrum fluoro tower standing in that window sill. It will get enough heat to keep the parts from freezing, and be nice and cool for hard exercise.

I've also found a caffeine approach that works for me-- smooth-roast coffee iced in very small quantities into milk, so it's all-day sips adding up to one cup equivalent total spaced out over the whole day.

A home-designed spa down the hall from our bedroom is already loaded with soothing winter goodies and the thick, fluffy bathrobe. (I also replaced the white shower-curtain liner with a clear one, because the upstairs tub is not lit well.) Exercise that makes me happily tired and relaxed, plus a tiny dose of sleep-help at bedtime, completes the picture.

That's my plan. At least, those are the parts that are "mentionable." :~)

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Nov 07 - 09:28 AM

Hey, from a local surplus-everything store I got a pair of aluminum clamp-lamps with porcelain sockets-- they were rated for 250 watt heat bulbs. The domed and aimable thingies.

Well, I put a fluorescent near-full-spectrum bulb in each and stuck 'em on the treadmill aimed at a user's face, and they're on an outlet strip that also runs the treadmill. One-click health! Wow, I wish I'd known about this option years ago! I guess the bulbs are just now becoming affordable, but wow!

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: mg
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:20 AM

It sounds good but can you get outside for part of the day? I know it can be cold there but bundled up and outdoors is the best not just for the light but Vitamin D etc. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:12 PM

Yes, I do get out every day, but this part of the country is light-lacking. Anyway it's not a help-me thread but a resource for others with SAD.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:23 PM

Hey thats cheating. Why should you be fully alive while the rest of us are in semi hibernation mode?


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:51 PM

Poppagator, in praise of N.O., said:

Property will never be cheaper than it is right now; I know for a fact that lots right in my own neighborhood are now, or will soon be, available for a song.

In what key?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 05:57 PM

Well, with sufficient intensity of full-spectrum light, you can always grow toatoes. Or recreational weeds.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Rumncoke
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:36 PM

Here in the UK I have been able to get 'white light' bulbs for some years. The effect of the house lit up at night is quite striking. It looks as though the sun is shining through it, and when the sun is shining I sometimes go to turn off the light when it is not on.

Although I do not have SAD, these bulbs are much better illumination, and don't make your eyes tired when reading or doing craftwork.

A bonus is that they are low energy, so take less power than a conventional bulb for the same amount of light.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Sep 08 - 02:23 PM

OK, folks, here's the annual reminder, ESPECIALLY for fellow-northern-clime haints or mountaineers, where sunshine is in short supply.

GET YOUR SUN-BULBS OUT NOW, AND PLUG THEM IN. Set the timers. Get a light-sensitive auto-nightlight that turns itself on automatically when your favorite seat in the house is too dark, so its glow will remind you that you need some light.

Be the first on your block, and save your neighbors when they doze out!

Light up a loved one, today. And check your vitamin D levels too.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM

I don't want a big light box anymore-- I prefer to have the FS everywhere in the house as opposed to having to sit for 1/2 hour each day, see? They don't need to be as bright if you get it all day.

Each year we add more and more FS bulbs around the house-- the fluoro ones that are expensive but last a long time. To limit the effect of flickering, know that a roomful of flickers cancel each other out unless you have one too close to your eyes.

Hardi adds more each year at the church as well. The first few years it was just the big fluoro's overhead, at his office. Oddly, people enjoyed hanging out there, hm!?!?! Now the secretary's office has them also, and the parish house lights are being changed as they burn out, one by one. We have midweek aerobics and other activities in there so a lot of people get the benefit.

As demand increases, the prices are dropping. It pays to shop around.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:19 AM

Refreshing for refugees from ebbing sunlight.....

It's amazing how narrow the margin is, between too much and not enough light-- at least for me. In the summer I craved shade-- for FS but indirect light. Now, though, I had rearranged the LR for the winter configuration, but adjusting/buying/reallocating the extension cords for the DVR, etc. were such a pain that I left the sun-bulb extension cord out of the mix til "later." The playroom where I exercise the dogs, convert tapes, and organize music books has a bulb, but Sadies' toes had gotten too long to get traction on the treadmill, and after I got them clipped the schedule knocked out the AM time I'd been enjoying spending sitting in front of the warm subn-bulb out there..... all I was getting was the bulb next to the puder-- but I've been cutting down on puder time to save my eyes....

Of course I got sluggish and snarky; at the same time I'd increased a BP med that was ALSO making me sluggish and snarky. How the heck did I think I was going to evaluate the BP meds' effects if I didn't ALSO keep up the sun-bulbs?!?!? Obiviously my thinking had already been affected.... thank God Hardi can fit into spaces I can't yet, to fish out and hook up extension cords. :~)

Wakee wakee.....

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:41 AM

ALL flouresent bulbs emit UV light. All of them, even the screw in mercury bulbs.

Some tubes emit more UV than others. Bluish daylight bulbs will work virtually as well as the really expensive verilux tubes.
I have a tanning booth salon light system but its UV light is so far off the chart that I don't use it. It would actully burn your retinas if you looked at it.

Polycarbonate clear plastic panels will block over half the UV light of all flouresent bulbs. Other plastics or glass will not block UV nearly as well.

I use a combination of a pinkish grow light and the blueish daylight bulb in 2 living room tube fixtures and it is a very pleasing red blue full spectrum. I even accent those with 3 blue neon fixtures and one pink neon lamp. Downstairs I use Yellowish floursesents for a warm golden light.

I hate the stark white blue bulbs alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: MAG
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM

Thanks for all the info; I finally ordered a 10,000 lux light over the internet for $221, incl. shipping. I can't deal with the making-my-own and all. I am somewhat technically challenged and start way too many projects I do not follow through on: I buy it, I use it, it's portable and easy to set up (they tell me).


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 06:43 AM

refresh

Prices are coming down.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 03:00 PM

Current household inventory of SAD-lights:

1 supplementing light panel in the bright-sun-window office
1 old mic-stand-mounted panel in upstairs lounge/reading room
2 chairside FS fluoro's by LR recliners
12??? FS tasklight bulbs worked into variously-located lamps and overheads in oft-used task areas; one of these is small FS panel next to LR puder

===

TO COME

Timers and easy-switches for total accessibility.

A few areas of this huge house still have zero FS lighting-- now-affordable bulbs will be worked in, there.

===


TIPS

We didn't replace any as prices came down-- we spread around what we had, putting the newest/brightest ones where most needed/most attractive. Vitamin D added to daily multivitamin/supplements mix.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 03:05 PM

This feels like a year to investigate SAD lights. Odd weather, change of medications, changes in the household. I'll have to go back and read this from the beginning again.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 03:06 PM

Read it backwards-- it got smarter as it went along. :~)

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Mysha
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 04:03 PM

Hi,

OK, so I understand you have, or had, or are going to have, all kinds of set-ups. But, ignoring the way you set it up, what is it that you did?

Bye,
                                                                   Mysha


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 04:10 PM

Frankly one should jollywell just get on with it. Plenty of shagging, cross country running and cold showers!


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 04:15 PM

Mysha, my suggestion to read the thread backwards was directed to SRS (and I forgot to say so again). I think you will have to read the whole thread from the beginning. That's the best way to sort out anything at Mudcat that doesn't make sense, because so many people contribute during a thread. Are you new here? This is mostly a music site. Welcome!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Mysha
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 04:46 PM

Hi Susan,

No, I did read from the start, though I did skip some parts with higher digit density. But I started the thread wondering what all that about a mic stand was, and I still am, wondering, except that since then somehow boxes crept into the thread as well, but have now been declared obsolete/unwanted/unnecessary(?). It's like reading that if you have books standing on the floor, you should put shelves into peppermint oil crates. About the only thing that made sense to me, apart from everyone agreeing that unfiltered sun light works very well, if you can get it, was the part about moving the furniture to get the morning sun. In the morning, I'm going to have a look into such a sunny disposition. (-:

But now that you know more, could you restart the description of what you're doing, to get from the general to the particular?

Bye,
                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 07:38 PM

Mic stand = microphone stand. The old style with a big rouind, heavy base and an adjustable height. It's just what I happened to have (from our music). You can stand a flat light fixture on an easel, or anything handy. One year we wired a fluoro fixture (to hold it) into a window frame, just stood it up on the windowsill and aimed it at the seating area. You do what works with what you have, can find, or can afford to buy or order in person or online.

I'm sorry I can't type more right now-- vision issues preclude any long stuff right now. The main thing is, start with what you do understand and can do, and from there, learn what you can. Take it one light at a time.

Hardiman's specs about the lights that work can be printed to take to the store, where a salesperson can steer you to the right stuff.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 10:14 PM



As I sit here typing, I know that many who read this will not believe me. But if there is even a chance that you, dear reader, MIGHT respect my honest opinion, please-- do TRY what I am going to describe.

It's about sugar and sugar addiction. It's about sugar and serotonin. And it's about serotonin and chocolate.

SUGAR AND SEROTONIN
They say that sugar cravings in SAD are increased from one's usual sugar-craving levels. Me, I am not particularly afflicted with a sweet tooth: I might want something sweet a couple of times a year, but when the sugar-jones comes back the next day-- as it will just because of the sugar-serotonin reaction in our bodies-- for me, it's easy to override it, have something healthy, and forget about it. I LIKE sugar but I do not crave it. In fact it does awful things in my gut and I'm a little sugar-aversive as a result. (IBS in pastorwife/polyester suiting.... not a good mix.) :~)

Stick with me... this is going somewhere.


SEROTONIN AND CHOCOLATE
Chocolate....mmmm....mmmm...... Now, chocolate has real, medicinal properties to soothe the savage breast. Women with PMS know this well, tho it also can cause or worsen migraine..... some days ya just gotta have a little chocolate. (I have never met an ice cream- slinging woman who did not understand that on some days, MORE hot fudge is REQUIRED.) And I have been known to run into a powerful choco-craving. I'm sure it ALSO boosts serotonin.


CHOCOLATE AND SUGAR IN S.A.D.
Anyway, one year I had a really bad time with SAD and was driven to antidepressants. I knew that part of my winter thing was based in personal history-- the annual rekindling of memories. Anniversary-grief, I call that. I looked forward, each year, to the year's evolving grief and concomitant, evolving growth. But there was one bad year when my job, that year, did not allow me to dive in deep. And so, a great doc I had then.... cooperatively prescribed. I took Elavil. I liked it better than I had expected to. But it gave me the most awful reaction to chocolate: I'd crave it, and have "some," but instead of ONE Snickers bar, my tongue would insist on not two, not three, but four or FIVE! It was very puzzling, and my doc didn't understand it, either. Some chemical thing.


THE BIG SURPRISE
Now, here we are in SAD again, and again it's a year when I'm taking Elavil. And there's the old choco-craving again. I braced for the 5-Snickers thing-- not looking forward to the expected IBS result.

But THIS year, I'm living with a diabetic, so our house contains no refined sugar. It just happens that I taste-test any sugar-free items before I give them to Hardi, because he DOES have a sweet tooth. Also, he DOES know the difference between good sugar-taste and bad-taste. So I preview stuff as we try new things.

And that's when I learned the MOST AMAZING THING. And that is, Splenda and other sugar-free, BLENDED sweeteners...

1. Satisfy the sugar craving completely in one serving
2. Do not make me want MORE and MORE sugar all day long
3. DO come in a sugar-free CHOCOLATE syrup that is GREAT on ice cream!!!


So now, it's sugar-free chocolate sauce blended with sugar-free caramel sauce and natural, sugarless peanut butter.... on sugar-free (medium-fat) ice cream, and it's as good as ONE Snickers bar, and JUST ONE IS PLENTY.


SAY WHAT?!?!?!
Yes, this is the crazy thing. Our brains are actually fooled by the sugarless sweeteners!!!!

This changes everything about sugar consumption. Yes-- there is a difference in flavor between sugar-free and sugar. Sugar DOES taste better.

But here's more unbelievabale stuff.... that is actually TRUE. If the sugar-free version is introduced gradually, the palate adjusts-- and can no longer tell the difference. I SWAR! You mix regular chocolate with sugar-free, and you get reduced-sugar that tastes good. You then gradually adjust the mix, until it's all sugar-free. And it tastes FINE!


BRAGGING
And thus I have gained chocolate... lost the sugar that had been connected to it... AND I can even have REAL COFFEE without an IBS attack.

Another handy example was at a friend's for supper the other night. She presented a choice: sugar-free vanilla pudding? or turtle cheesecake? BOTH! Hardi and I split a sliver of sugary cheesecake and then topped it with slathers of sugar-free pudding. It was GREAT! Sweet, and creamy, and a VERY nice textural enhancement to the cheesecake.

I ain't SAD no more!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 11:47 PM

There are more kinds of sugar than you can shake a mic stand at. Xylotol is a great sugar albeit expensive. It has the great advantage of preventing any tooth decay.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 12:12 AM

The best fakes seem to be the blends, with each arti-flavor canceling out the others so all that's left is the sweetness. But I'm sure that too much of them is as bad as too much sugar-- so I think this only works for those who lack the sweet tooth.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 09:04 AM

wefresh


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 09:28 AM

I've just got out my "winter waking up lamp" out: it's time.

www.lumie.com (I've got a very simple light / clock that turns itself on 30 mins before the alarm). Last year it helped enormously.

BUT, this year it uses low energy bulbs, and I don't think they work as well. There's something "wrong" with the quality of the light.

Has anyone else noticed the same?

Paws


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 09:36 AM

Something I don't think has been mentioned on this thread: it isn't the intensity or spectrum of the light that has the most influence on its effectiveness, it's the timing. Needs to be first thing in the morning - about the time of summer sunrise.

And remember a small light close to you is just as effective as a brighter one further away. Lighting up the whole room is just wasting power - it isn't your walls and carpet that are getting depressed.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 11:44 AM

it's the timing.

That is true but not everyione's circadian clock runs on the AM light.
Some people's SAD is better heped by lighting another time of day for the really-bright light. For some it's bedtime.

Around noon, usually, for me. Think of summertime-- what time of day does one most enjoy being out and about. (Instinctive body systems at work.) It varies for most of us... But whatever that time is, that is probably the time supplemental bright light is needed. For me, too-bright at other times is a real problem. I discovered this summer that my best ambient lighting to spend any amount of time in is partial shade, with short afternoon bursts of hard light. (I use my impatiens plants to discover where to leave my chair.)

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 12:55 PM

And, has anyone figured this out: Is it the light that falls on your skin that counts, or the light that falls on your retina?

If it's your skin, I would think you could benefit just by wearing skimpier clothes (indoors, I mean). Or using a tanning booth.

If it's your retina, I would think a few minutes of staring into a small bright light (if it's not too bright) would help. Maybe even turning up the brightness on your computer screen! Also, I would think a lot of blind people would be permanently depressed. Come to think of it, some (not all) blind people I have known did seem depressed!

It would depend on the kind of blindness, of course. Some blind people have their retinas intact, but their vision is clouded or out of focus.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 01:20 PM

It's both, Jim. Retina-to-brain chemistry and skin-to-vitamin D synthesis.

Retina-wise, it's the missing blue light natural light has in abundance that has been missing for so long in incandescent lighting. Being well in yellow light is like eating yellow snow. Sure that will give some relief if one is dying of thirst, but it's not as good as clean, clear water! :~)

So it's not just the brightness (specs and descriptions are upthread), but also the color rendering of the light.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 04:51 AM

To combat SAD I have tried everything from making the effort to go out in as many daylight hours as possible, comfort eating, taking vitamin suppliments to going into virtual hybernation. I had toyed with the idea of taking my vacation in the worst part of the mid winter January or February and go to a warmer climate instead but I read somewhere in a magazine article that it might not be such a good idea to do this as the blues kick in twice fold when they return because of the sudden change of climate and added to that the cost of the break which isn't going to be particularly cheap.

Maybe to just get on with it is the right way to go.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 09:22 AM

I had toyed with the idea of taking my vacation in the worst part of the mid winter January or February and go to a warmer climate instead but I read somewhere in a magazine article that it might not be such a good idea to do this as the blues kick in twice fold when they return because of the sudden change of climate and added to that the cost of the break which isn't going to be particularly cheap.

May I share the experience of a good friend: do all of the above because you never know which piece will be THE key piece till afterwards, or which ones "Life" will take out of your plan.

My friend adopted the "Vacay Hawaii" approach (he had the bucks). Not only did it help him, he found that looking forward to it as the darkness closed in kept him working his program so he could be ready to GO. Then to combat the letdown on his return he worked on maintain his tan. :~)

About half of our parish Snowbirds to Florida every winter. They leave this dark climate at dates reflecting their resources as well as how early their SAD gets to them. None of them have mentioned the rebound effect. The cycle of prep is probably why it works so well for them; you can think about how to apply that to a vacay schedule-- as you think ahead about your next vacay dates (and as the darkness increases daily).

In other words-- think smart, and flexible.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 11:18 AM

Lights have different 'color temperature' but simply put the higher the K number (theoretical Temperature of an incandescent body), the more blue light.

So look for the ones marked 'Daylight' - or 5-6000 K. You used to be able to get incandescents that had a light blue 'gel coating' that made the light appear even higher temperature, but you probably can't get them now.

LED lights also come in different 'temperature ratings' too. These ratings also apply to fluorescents, and the CFLs as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Sep 10 - 08:39 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Sep 10 - 03:07 AM

The coloured 'gel coating' used to be available for those who wished to create 'hippy light bulbs' - you painted patterns on clear incandescent light bulbs. Might still be available if you search in the right craft places.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 11:21 AM

Related thread: ESCAPE TO THE SUN

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 05 Feb 11 - 05:30 PM

So glad you refreshed this. I have found it very interesting. Lots of exc info. Sent the piece about the cafe to friends who are just now renovating an old building as a new venue for their wonderful cafe. They are very "new age" and health conscious so maybe...

Concerned about use of alt. sweeteners. The bad press about aspartame and others causes me to refuse sugar-free anything. But, then I don't really need to so I am fortunate. Will re-look at bit about Choc as I am a desperate chocoholic - DARK only! Milk makes me nauseous, even a small piece.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 05:40 PM

Glad you found it useful, DP.

I increased my vit. D intake this year as well.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 06:41 AM

Apart from vit D I haven't found much that can be done really apart from the gym, weather permitting, because I feel the more running around trying to combat it the worse it becomes. I just cancel out January as being a non-month just to endure it while it lasts. January is the longest and worst month anyway whatever you do February is horrible too but thankfully not so long. Suicide rate is generally higher at the latter part of January. Although November and December can be cold and dark there is something about January that makes it seem everlasting like a bottomless dark hole. It amazes me why people are so quick to take down all lighting even subtle lights as soon as the festive season is over at such an abrupt halt. Thankfully February has the optimism that spring will be nudging it's way soon I would be more inclined to remedy it just before the start of spring rather than battle against it through January.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 03:29 PM

I think the main thing that gets me through is an "ah hah" experience about 25 years ago. I was lying in bed in an increasingly cold house - wood fire was out - trying to think of ONE good reason to get out of bed. Staying warm did not make it. It was all too much trouble to bother. But I was making an effort and, finally, I remembered it was the 21 December!!!! I leapt out of bed and dressed warmly and got the fire going and took delight in the knowledge that "NOW the days will start getting longer!!" I hold on to that and focus on the lengthening of the days and then ... spring will be coming!

In Montreal, I have been told of the "February blahs" but by then, I am in "spring is coming" mode. I love October but as we get into dark November I just hang on to the concept of "soon it will be the shortest day, then the days will start getting longer". I keep as much light on as possible and use bright. cheerful, materials - throws on the furniture, pale yellow walls, whatever gives a sense of light.

We take our "D", and extra "B" because it seems to help me be warmer. Plants help me too. Preferably blooming ones, even cut flowers when possible, or necessary, to add colour or light or just something alive..


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 09:53 PM

SAD lights got best with proper thyroid meds.

But here's the (belated) annual reminder, ESPECIALLY for fellow-northern-clime haints or mountaineers, where sunshine is in short supply.

GET YOUR SUN-BULBS OUT NOW, AND PLUG THEM IN. Set the timers. Get a light-sensitive auto-nightlight that turns itself on automatically when your favorite seat in the house is too dark, so its glow will remind you that you need some light.

Be the first on your block, and save your neighbors when they doze out!

Light up a loved one, today. And check your vitamin D levels too.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 12:56 PM

Refresh for this year's reminder!

Here I am, halfway moved from dark PA where all my newer sunbulb lamps still are.... to Ohio, where all possible light bulbs are daylight including two big overhead fixtures.... but I detest overhead lighting.... so it's back to the old mic stand unit I brought here, 4 years ago when the move started. Same bulbs-- they never burned out.

It's rained for 2 days now, with several more forecast, and I could tell it was time. The clocks change Sunday so it's good to get a jump on this! This LR is painted blue which also helps blue-up any light bouncing around.

Oh yeah, just remembered-- that desk lamp here is my FS one. (No wonder I enjoyed Solitaire on the puder so much this morning!)

D is in my midday meds pill sorter now. Each day, my body tells me how much to take.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Nov 18 - 04:15 PM

Everyone is low on Vitamin D period

Some people need direct ( but brief) retinal exposure to sunlight at 6 AM noon and 6 PM


It resets the brain from Amygdala to Pituitary. Extra light helps too.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 03:39 AM

LED lighting is good for the body clock settings. Particularly the ones with plenty of blue.

20 years or more ago when I lived with a lass who experienced cabin fever, I bought her a "Outside In" alarm clock. It switched on a light in progressively brighter intensity until at full brightness the alarm went off. She thought it was wonderful for a week, and then got antagonistic about it. And me!

The same company sold sunshade type peaks with LED down light & batteries that you could read by which were good for noon body clock re-setting, on a plane (eg). And light panels, etc. I eventually solved the problem by leaving, which pleased her too!

I reckoned she had the hibernation gene --- on boost. Anything I did was a stress to that. The best laid plans of mice and men and all that..........


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 05:46 AM

Here comes daylight cravings time


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 03:41 PM

Blue light late at night defeats efforts to reset the brain to springtime and can result in harming sleep cycles.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 12:26 PM

Yea, energy saving lamps, phones, tabs, laptops and TVs. Which is why I use a tungsten bulb in the bedroom socket. That and it is a dimmer/remote so it has to be tungsten or less efficient "energy saving" types.

And FWIW there is a TED.com video of a research doctor who was triggered to do research on daylight & vitamin D becaus his research in Aberdeen compared to the same when he did it in Australia, was a Light (ha) Bulb Moment. Daylight was the key. But he found that UVB was the catalyst to vitamin D conversion. UVA did nothing, except burn the skin. UVA is the one refered to in sunblock creams. But do they allow enough UVB through?
Australia did better in heart attack stats, when all other factors had been controlled for.


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Subject: RE: BS: SAD/Winter Blues/Sun Shortage: Solved
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 07:30 PM

Everyone in Alaska has SAD.

It is usually solved, for millenia now, with espresso.

We are setting the clocks back an hour this very weekend.

And voting Tuesday to send Don Young back to Fort Yukon because the SOB refuses to take a hint...


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