BS: My Prejudices

Subject: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:26 PM

WHOOOOEEEEEE! This should be a HOT thread.

For starters, let me say that I am not going to post my prejudices in this thread. I may be naieve at times, but I ain't stupid. Man!
Talk about throwing meat to the dogs! Now, in personal correspondence, that's a different issue. Depending on the level of trust, acknowledging my prejudices can help explain "where I am coming from," and why I get it wrong a lot. That takes a very sepcial kind of friendship... one I've had with Art Thieme and a few other people in my life. But most of all, it's importand to ME that I recognize my prejudices. If I don't, then I get all sorts of distortions in my thinking, and I trip over myself trying to communicate with others.

Pointing out prejudices in others is the Great American Pastime. Forget baseball. We all do it. I do it. (And I'm not talking about something as limited as racial prejudice.) Being honest about our own prejudices is of limited appeal. This thread probably won't hit 20 posts. That's because we don't like to admit that we're prejudiced. I don't like to.

Many things lead to our prejudices... the experience of living, for starters. If someone has really treated us badly, it's easy to be prejudiced against anyone who we suspect may be like them. That can be very blinding. I guess I can understand prejudice against Christians because I've had people do really cruel things to me in the name of Christianity. I can understand silence being upsetting in a personal relationship because I've had relationships where silence was always the precursor of a violent explosion. It doesn't just happen with volcanos. The more I can honestly face my own prejudices, the less likely I am to missinterpret the actions of others. Everyone knows the frustration of someone insisting that you feel a way that you don't. You can talk yourself blue in the face and not change their mind. That's their problem (as we're always so quick to say.) Well, I have problems with prejudice that come from making generalities about people based on my own life experience. That's my problem.

I've just shared a long list of my prejudices with a friend I trust. I want to be able to have an honest conversation with him.
Honesty begins at home.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:37 PM

Right with you, Jerry. Certain kinds of topic-bending or illogical sequencing of data drive me up the wall, and I always have to resist the temptation to conclude the person is being evasive or neurotic or both. It is not a fair resposne and I try to avoid it but as anyone who has read my political posts knows, I fall intot he temptation too easily.

I also tend to be prejudiced against receiving the content of anger, and passive aggression of the covert sort, and apathetic hopelessness. I get inclined to stop hearing because of a judgement that the expression does not reflect actual intent.

Silence, for me, is only a trigger if it is an out of communication sort of shutdown silence. There are silences between two people who are close that can be golden. But (to me) that's because such silences open the communication channel wider rather than shut it down.

A

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:39 PM

Well, shucks Jerry, even Jesus of Nazareth had prejudices. Just look what he did to those poor folks who were selling things in the Temple. And what he said about the Pharisees...well!

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:41 PM

prejudices based on experience are usually valid to some extent. Even when invalid there is usually a rational behind the prejudice.

BIGOTRY which is not so based is a whole 'nother issue.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:46 PM

I don't like ice cream with onion salt in it.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:51 PM

Yes, we all have prejudices, and we need to examine them and see if we can get free of them.

"Pointing out prejudices in others is the Great American Pastime."

LOL! Ain't it the truth. Why, if you eliminated that habit on Mudcat, half the posted material on here would vanish....

It's fun creating fictional characters like Shane (BDiBR) who are so ridiculously prejudiced in so many ways that it just gives the reader something to laugh about.

The reason we laugh...or get angry...may be that we recognize ourselves in some way. We see the shadow side of ourselves, made blatantly obvious in someone else. Note that effective comic humour usually involves people acting in a dysfunctional manner. Why was "Calvin & Hobbes" such a great comic? Because Calvin was a rotten little egocentric monster most of the time! That's funny to observe. It's a relief for the reader seeing that there is someone out there who is basically more dysfunctional than he/she is. Garfield is the same routine. That cat is a total jerk, and that's why people like the comic.

What would politicians do these days if they could not point out their opponent's prejudices, and assassinate his character?

I am prejudiced against Clinton Hammond. He reminds me of so many people I hated when I was a child! Oh my. I used to fantasize their doom. In Clinton's case, I keep hoping he'll be assaulted by a mob of Jehovah's Witnesses, stripped and flogged, and then hung up by the heels over a pit full of puff adders, there to be lowered slowly, slowly, slowly...to his inevitable and hideous doom.

Fortunately, these are nothing but fantasies. Think of how bad I would feel if it actually happened! The guilt would keep me up for.............days... (grin)

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:57 PM

Prejudice can be in favour of, or against.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:28 PM

That's right, Pink Lad: But even positive prejudices can be blinding. I think that it's healthier to try to be as objective as we can. And not delude ourselves by insisting that we're objective when we really aren't.

Self-delusion is rampant. I suffer from it myself.

You have to be especially wary of positive prejudice when you're raising kids. It's called playing favorites.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:38 PM

Ya know what drives me nuts, come to think of it? When someone is being condescending and judgmental, and masks it with a faux-humility in their tone of voice or phrases that begin with "perhaps."

Hey, if ya got something condescending or critical to say, don't pretend that you're being ohhh so mild-mannered. I'd rather have someone swear at me.

But that's my prejudice that comes from a disastrous first marriage. I have to watch my self, and not go off like Pavlov's dogs.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:42 PM

I don't trust people, especially men, whose feet point markedly outward. If they can't keep their feet on straight, can their hearts be straight?

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:46 PM

A dog hater eh? I am calling PETA!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:47 PM

If I ever meet you, leenia, I'll have to remember that.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: LilyFestre
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:48 PM

I'd like to think I'm a big enough person and make choices based on individual people and not group folks together as a whole. I will say that I think the closest thing to being prejudiced I have is a distrust of Arab men, it has nothing to do with color and everything to do with their culture and treatment of women. I once dated a guy from Oman who bit a hole straight through my bottom lip and thought absolutely nothing about it. So, would all men from that area of the world treat the world accordingly? I don't know as I don't get close enough to find out. I don't feel good about my reaction but it's an honest one. I don't think they are a lower class of folk or anything like that at all...I just have an issue with the culture clash of how women are treated. I know other women from the states who were involved with Arab men and have similar stories. Is it a prejudice? I don't know.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 02:54 PM

I fund out a little about my own prejudices when my daughter had just come out of a long term relationship and we were joking, with my stepdaughter, about finding her a fella.

There was a guy I worked with at the time, about Sharon's age, very bright, extremely personable - and black. We were jokingly suggesting that he would be a suitable son-in-law for me as I got on with him so well. Then my stepdaughter said "Mmmm, brown babies!" All of a sudden I realised that there was something inside me that was slightly repelled by that thought. Took me quite a while to get my head round that one - I didn't think that I had any prejudice so far as race or colour went.......

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 03:05 PM

Prejudice is sneaky, jacqui. I had to eliminate the word "boys" from my vocabulary when I moved into a black community of friends and family. Not everyone who is black is offended by it, but some are, and I can understand why. Not that I ever referred to a black male as "boy." But in all my years of folk music playing with other musicians, I'd often say, "You ready boys?" I realized that what had been a completely innocent comment took on a totally different meaning when the other guys were black.

I suspect that we're all far more prejudiced about a lot of things than we can admit to ourselves. No one wants to believe that they are prejudiced. But if we are, we'll never change if we refuse to admit it first.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 03:16 PM

I've had to recognize and admit some prejudices I have or in some fortunate cases, had. As Jacqui said above, it jars me to come face to face with them. The main thing I try to do in the meantime - as I try to understand and thus eradicate them - is to not act on them.

One prejudice I can acknowledge- not that I'm proud of it. Since I now know this about myself, I'm no longer so sure I condone or advise adoption of a different race child. I'm curious as to how others feel about it.

Here it is:

Let me set it up: I've always been comfortable with the concept and the practice of adopting children who needed people to love them, no matter what their ethnic origin or their country of origin or any physical or mental or emotional disability they may have. I have several in my own family and there will undoubtedly be more.

In each case, the new parent says - and plans - that they will teach their child about their heritage, including meeting others of like heritage and culture.

Then one day it occurred to me: How would I feel about seeng a white child being adopted by people of color? Whether they are Asian or Indian or Black or whoever. Would it satisfy me if they told me that they'll see to it that their new child is exposed to its heritage? So now I'm no longer sure of anything.

Any thoughts? And I don't mind being attacked, incidentally, as long as it is an honest reaction.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: MMario
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 03:25 PM

As far as I am concerned - the important question when a child is adopted is will the parents love them, raise them and support them.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: LilyFestre
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 03:37 PM

We had a Domincan child live with us for an extended period of time. I am very light skinned, my husband Native American and then we were lucky enough to share our lives with Little Miss Veronica with her big brown eyes, curly hair, dark skin and the biggest heart you have ever seen. We live in a rural area of Pennsylvania with very few people of color. We talked about her heritage, we looked up recipes, we made recipes, we learned some songs, we learned some Spanish but overall, we were just happy to be a family. Sure she had questions sometimes and we did the best we could to answer them or find answers. She joined our family and as such, she learned our traditions...German and Native American combined....and we learned hers...asking questions, listening intently, trying her way sometimes....but you know what? That stuff is important but even more important was that Veroinca had a home where she was safe, valued and loved. Those are the basic needs of every human being and all the rest is secondary.

So Mmario, I'm with you....150%.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 03:48 PM

What difference does it make WHAT the skin color of the parents or the child is? Kids need love and care.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: jimmyt
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 03:48 PM

I am prejudiced against mean people. I see no reason for people to be mean and I cannot see what they contribute to society by being mean.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 03:50 PM

The whole issue of inter-racial adoption has changed dramatically over the years. Something that is a positive sign. What would have been taboo in some communities fifty years ago is now reasonably comfortably accepted. Same with children born of an inter-racial marriage. As for blacks adopting a white child, how could anyone possible grow up in this country (U.S.A) and many others without being aware of their culture? White history is overwhelming dominant, and while in the United States, there is a recognition of how greatly black culture has shaped and molded music, white movie Directors, actors and actresses, authors and artists are too prominent not to notice. I'd be more concerned with a black or Asian child not being made aware (and proud of) their heritage. I have friends who adopted two Russian children, and they've made them aware of their heritage as much as they could from the time they were little children. Some adopted children don't want to be thought of as from another country. My cousin and her husband adopted a young Indian girl (the husband is Indian) and the girl grew up with a strong awareness of her background and cultural heritage but wanted to be considered "American." I am not adopted, and have some familiarity with my Danish heritage, but don't think of myself as "Danish-American." Or even American-Danish.

I think every case is unique, depending on the community the child is going to be raised in and the sensitivity of the parents.

My friends Joe and Frankie grew up on Grand Ole Opry and bluegrass music as well as black gospel and blues. They are black. I grew up with a love for big band music, pop singers of the fifties, and black rhythm and blues and later, soul music. I've always enjoyed gospel music... black, more than white. Last time I checked, I'm white. Joe and Frankie knew about Uncle Dave Macon and Grandpa Jones and I love John Lee Hooker and Lightnin' Hopkins.

I think that, at least in the U.S., and I suspect in many other countries, that cultural heritage, whether white, black or other flavors is familiar to most people.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 04:04 PM

There's a difference between disliking individuals wot do stuff that is dislikeable and prejudice.

The trick with prejudice is not to take a justified dislike for an individual, and then project it on to a group of people, and then stick a label on the group. That's what prejudice is. The anger toward an individual may be well justified. Projecting that anger toward a whole group of people isn't. Interetingly, the reverse process doesn't usually happen. People can say "Blacks are lazy because they have had a bad experience with a few blacks who are.
(And somehow don't make a comparable generality about lazy people they know who are white.) In their eyes, Blacks are lazy. If you point out examples of hard-working, responsible blacks, a prejudiced person will say, "Yeah, alright, THEY'RE not lazy, but they're the exception that proves the rule."

Sometimes you can't win for losing.

But then, we segue into commenting on the prejudice of others.
Or more accurately, I am commenting on the prejudice of others. It is so easy.

There's a difference too between things that bug us and prejudice. Prejudice is a much more serious problem. Things that "bug" us just irritate us. Things that we are prejudiced about diminish us.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: leftydee
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 06:39 PM

Learned prejudices are a normal way for humans to deal with their environment. When we select an apple we avoid the spotted one, even though it may be the more delicious, based on a prejudice about irregular fruit. We constantly profile people, objects and situations. Our brains file and sort automatically based on past experience. Prejudging is like using the alphabet; it eliminates the need to make up new letters every time you want to spell a word. The real trick is to eliminate the irrational and use the ones that serve you well.

Great thread, Jerry. You are a thoughtful man.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 06:50 PM

I am prejudiced against prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 07:00 PM

There is a world of difference between the different degrees of association and differentiation. It is one thing to make an assumption about an apple based on however it was you learned to deal with them, the vocabulary you learned about them, and so on, as means of getting on in life. It's true you are not wholly inspecting the apple on its own unique nature and merits, but it moves things along faster.

This is semantic association; it is relatively mild. But to crank the association machine in the direction of "identify this moment with X moment in the past as though they were the same" is lethal to the soul and the intellect.

Any judgement made about a living and communicating entity on the basis of that sort of blind response categorical imperative is downright dangerous to self and to others.

A

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 07:42 PM

MMario -- prejudices based on experience does not make sense. A prejudice is a judgment made without the benefit of experience. Before the experience.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: leftydee
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 07:48 PM

Amos,
I agree with you that to "identify the moment with X......" is or can be lethal to intellect and soul. That is the reason I said that you must get past the irrational and use the prejudices that serve you.

My situation as a young man required me to make decisions that I was intellectually unable to make. I was abandoned at age 12 and lived pretty much by my wits until I matured. I made lots of judgements with no help and no tools to work with. I managed to stay out of 'the system' by making decisions based on prejudices I acquired very quickly. My natural reaction to authority figures was distrust and fear. As an adult I let that go. It no longer served me. There were many things that set off alarms for me as a kid on his own. Maturity quieted them. I am thankful that reason prevailed for me. I pity those that won't or can't take the time for introspection.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 07:59 PM

I tend to take an immediate dislike to anyone that popular culture crowns with laurels for no obvious reason involving anything approaching my personal values. It's a prejudice, since I don't know the person from Adam. Celebrity for being a celebrity really gags me with a spoon. I am quick to label such people as shallow, materialistic morons.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 09:05 PM

Well, this is one thread I should stay away from but...

... hey, pre-judgement is part of all of our basic survival instincts... and that ain't all that bad...

Yeah, fir the most part the folks that I am most paranoid of are white Republicans but...

... over the last 7 years I have been ivolved with a lot of community projects with "white Republicans"???

I have commented here that I feel more comfortable with black folks and for the most part I do but...

... 'bout 15 years ago I was trying to find Johns Hopkins University Hospital in Baltimore and ended up on a street with my wife... It was summer anf there were hjundreds of bvlack folks, mostly kids, on that street and, yeah, I felt if I had gotten outta my car I probably would have ended up dead... So I was real happy to get outta that situation.... Yeah, I've worked inside the Richmond City jail as a teacher but that night, I was real happy to have gotten off that block without incident...

Is that pre-judgin'... Heck if I know but I was sho nuff happy to get ouuta that neighborhood...

Actually, I think that over the years, I have become less and less prejudial one one hand and more street wise on the other...

'Some folks is out to get you...

Ain't about pre-judgement...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 09:06 PM

That's hard to believe, Elmer. I've admired you all my life. My middle name is Elmer, named after my Father. I also have a nifty Elmer Fudd figure in full hunting gear with red rubber boots and hunting jacket sitting up on a shelf here in my office. I especially aadmired you because you were able to overcome a speach defect and become a star. Now you tell me that you're a shallow, materialistic moron. Say it isn't true Elmer. The next thing you'll tell me is that Dayy Duck does drugs.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Peace
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 09:08 PM

Well, one of the Seven Dwarfs did drugs Jerry.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 09:31 PM

Daffy Duck is capable of anything. He bounces around, going "Woo! Woo!...Woo! Woo!...Woo! Woo!", just to drive Elmer Fudd nuts. Like I said, he's capable of anything.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 09:33 PM

Now don't tell me that you are prejudiced against ducks, Little Hawk, them being birds and all. Thought you was supposed to flock together.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Deckman
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 09:55 PM

CHRISTIANS! They're a dangerous lot! Look at the harm they have caused over the last 1,000. And they've done this all in the name of "Christ!" They feel that they have a special in-road to god. And what's worse, they feel that they have the right to try to convert others to their belief system.

The only proof you need is to look at what's happenning in Iraq today ... thanks to the "christian" President bush.

CHRISTIANS ... they ARE a dangerous lot! Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 10:20 PM

Not all of us, Deckman...

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 10:31 PM

Ducks? I like Ducks. I don't think Daffy is a real duck. I think he's some sort of alien lifeform.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 11:12 PM

What's happening in Iraq has nothing to do with Christianity... it's about oil and money..

But that's another thread..

Or many

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Once Famous
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 11:36 PM

I am prejudice against Moslem suicide bombers.

Go ahead, call me a bigot for that. Then kindly go intercourse yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 11:41 PM

It's not prejudice Martin, if you have anger toward people who are commiting evil acts. Not bigotry, either.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 12:18 AM

Hello -- can we please define what we're talking about here?

Webster's says: prejudice a judgment or opinion formed before the facts are known; preconceived idea... a judgment or opinion held in disregard of the facts that contradict it...

How the hell does that apply to how you feel about Muslim suicide bombers?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 12:31 AM

Jerry: What's up, Doc? I was being serious. Do you not take me seriously because of my name? Do you have preconceived notions that I'm just a bald-headed fat guy with a bowler hat who hates rabbits and never wins?

(Lose the bowler hat and the rabbit and you've about got it right. But I wuz being serious.)

PS: It was Porky Pig who had the speech impediment.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 08:02 AM

Prior to my going to junior high school {age 12 or so}, I didn't know any White people except those who taught in the elementary school that I went to. But I thought that I knew White people through books, and magazines, and newspapers, and movies, and television.

I thought that White people were the center of the universe.
I thought that White people were better than any people who were not White, especially Black people. I thought White people were smarter than Black people. Thank goodness, I attened an interracial school 'cause when I found out that I made better grades than a lot of my White peers, the assumption of White superiority that I had been socialized to believe, began to crack. And slowly but surely that assumption of White superiority came tumblin down.

It took me longer to reject the assumption that the only standard of beauty is White, but slowly but surely I also rejected that emotionally and mentally and spiritually poisonous assumption.

At one time, I assumed that all White people felt that they {as individuals and as a race}were better than any person of color. But as a result of direct experiences, and as a result of indirect experiences {such as Mudcat}, I now know that that it that assumption is also not true. I now know that all White people so not feel this way. But it is certainly true that some White people feel this way.

At one time, I didn't think that any Black person believed that he or she as an individual was better than any White person or that the Black race were better than the White race. I know that that there are some Black people who believe that then and believe it now, but I never did and I still don't. I recognize that a belief in Black {or Asian or Native American etc} superiority is just as wrong as a belief in White superiority.   

I maintain that in order to be emotionally, mentally, and spiritually healthy, an individual must have postitive self-esteem and positive group esteem. I now have both.

I still recognize the power that institutional racism has to injure and kill positive self-esteem and positive group esteem.

I still realize that there is much work to be done.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 10:01 AM

Hey, Elmer: No, I don't really think that you look like Elmer Fudd. But if you take a cartoon name as your moniker, you can't be surprised if people want to kid around with you. And I always got a kick out of Elmer Fudd calling Bugs Bunny "You Wascally Wabbit."

Your prejudice is very commonplace. I have a very different spin on it. If the media crowns a celebrity for totally vaccuous reasons I don't necessarily assume that the celebrity is a moron. The media creates celebrities because they know there is a vast audience of people who want to admire them. I see it more as a reflection on our society. If we were all philosphers, then perhaps a philosopher
would me made into a celebrity by the media. (Bad parallel, as there probably wouldn't be a media.) The audience determines who is going to be a celebrity. I hear people complain constantly about the garbage on sensationalistic talk shows on TV, and when I point out that THEY are the audience because they watch it every day, they get very offended. If they don't Sell, they ain't Celebrities.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 10:08 AM

Stupidity

Closed minds, especially those closed by the prejudices of fantics (of any type)

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 10:11 AM

I tend not to trust people in suit--including myself when I have to wear one, an event that occurs every five years or so in my life. Ties, once a decade.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 10:33 AM

No fair saying that your are prejudiced against something that is clearly wrong or evil. I'm talking about Prejudice as an unjust judgment of someone... painting the innocent with the same brush as the guilty. It's one thing to say I hate who Hitler was." Prejudice is saying you hate all Germans.

Im not expecting public declarations of our own prejudices. I just think that for each of us, if we are going to strive for honesty in our lives we need to examine ourselves privately to root out our own prejudices. The first victim of prejudice and hatred is the one who carries it in their hearts.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 10:39 AM

Great thread, Jerry.

Azizi, I love your post. A great way to start a day.

Eb

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 09:49 PM

Now let's see... I better not wear a suit, or have my feet point outward, but I have to keep my mind open.. I hope I don't trip over something as I'm walking, trying to keep my mind on all of this. :-)

That's an interesting comment about pe-judging, Lefty. Yes, we spend our lives judging before the facts are known. Often, that's our only choice. I like Noah's second attribute of prejudice.. making a judgment in disregard of the facts that contradict it. That's more what I'm talking about. Mostly, I have to be aware of those emotions that have very little to do with facts..

I was fortunate in my work life to work directly with a Board Of Directors made up mostly of millionaires. I grew up poor, but didn't realize it until later, because everyone else I knew was poor.
I heard all the blanket condemnations of the rich (and I hear them in here all the time.) Guess what... rich folks are pretty much like poor folks. There's wonderful ones and rotten ones in both groups. They don't really go around cackling insanely, rubbing their hands together in anticipation and muttering, "money, money" under their breath.

In an ideal world, prejudice could be broken down if people could just get to know more of the people they are prejudiced against. Unfortunately, that often doesn't happen. But in the long run, it still probably offers the greatest hope.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 10:28 PM

Well, MizAzizi, haha... We are like opposites... Having grown up in a suburban neighborhood outside of Washington, D.C., I saw at an early age that theswe folks were mostly all show with little go...

Then I went way to college in Richmond... Yeah, my mom was into the civil rights movement big time and here I was in a city, fir the first time in my life that had a mjority of black folks...

Well, seems I hooked up with black folks... Hey, blacks in Richmond seemed to me at that time to be way more organic and spiritual then the white folks and so, hey, seems lotta of my friends were black...

Sad to say, but it's still that way... Not sad because my friends are my friends, even though most are black, but because I am still so distrustful of white folks..

Yeah, it's prejudcial but I don't have a lotta trust in white folks.... Been screwed over 'um too often...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 10:40 PM

Bobert:

I would suggest that it isn't the color of the skin that defined the set of thos eby whom you were screwed over, but the "color" of their emotional state. Any human being, regardless of skin, can slide into anger,passive aggression, slimy underhanded evasion, or stark terror on a short-term basis, or even settle there on a chronic basis.

The feeling behind what they are doing, not the shade of their meat-bag, is the clue, dude. Hate is ugly, high or low, left or right, black, brown, yellow, white or blue.

A

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 11:12 PM

Prejudice is when, on the basis of knowing a few things about a person, or even just one thing, we assume that other things must be true about them. It might mean assuming bad things or it might be good things. Either way it's irrational.

What is related to it and is not necessarily irrational is is perhaps bettwer termed a predisposition rather than a prejudice - making provisional judgements based on experience. When I go to a concert or a film or a festival, or decide not to go, that involves acting on the basis of a provisional judgement. Picking food from a menu in a restaurant is a similar process. If I've had a bad experience with some kind of dog, I'm going to be wary the next time I come into contact with a similar dog.

Inevitably the same kind of thing enters into our relations with other people.

The important thing is to avoid being trapped by these kind of provisional judgements, and alllowing them to turn into rigid rules that limit our range of experiences, or cause is to put up barriers against other people.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 11:15 PM

Jus the way the stars alligned fir me, I guess, Amos...

Hey, don't make alot of sense but that's the way it unfolded in my life???

But in my case, it don't seem like pre-judging but maybe I am more willing to look for Jesus in a blcak person than a white...

Either way, this is a confessional thread so I done confessed...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Deda
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 11:18 PM

Two experiences. First, the book 'The Color of Water" by James McBride is about a black kid, the eighth out of twelve children, whose mother was white. She came from an observant Jewish family in the south and had a miserable childhood, a cruel father (a rabbi, which seems rare & unlikely to me) -- and the only love she really experienced was from her first boyfriend, who was black. The book is great, and I recommend it for a mind-bending study in prejudice.

Second, I was raised in a mildly Episcopalian family, and my ex-husband was Jewish. I went from having a very WASPy name to having an extremely Jewish name (Rebecca Goldstein). I experienced that shift in "who am I perceived to be by strangers" for 17 years, until my divorce. That in itself is an interesting lesson in prejudice, real and imagined -- but it pales in comparison with having children who really are members of an ethnic minority. My ex never had any interest in Judaism, but his parents became orthodox and moved to Israel. My daughter converted to Judaism before she was even a teenager, and by the age of 18 she moved to Israel, where she lived for ten years. She's now married into an orthodox family and lives in Brooklyn. She can't cook at my house (I'm re-married to a guy who grew up Presbyterian and who knows relatively little about Judaism), because it would be nearly impossible for my kitchen to become kosher. For her or her family to eat at my house I have to have paper plates, plastic utensils, and food that's carefully selected with some knowledge of kosher food. All of this can sometimes wear me out and can be quite frustrating, depending on what other issues are on the table. Is this about prejudice? If so, is it mine, hers, or "other"?

A friend once expressed some irritation at my ex, complained about some imagined rudeness of his and blamed it on his being Jewish. That infuriated me. It was entirely irrelevant and a really stupid remark, IMO.

Plain-out, obvious prejudice is too easy. We can all congratulate ourselves on being against it. We all have soft-core prejudices which are much harder to spot, to name, and to extricate.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jan 06 - 11:39 PM

We all have prejudices. Some are identified in this thread with an awareness that it's something that needs to be worked on. Some are almost presented as a badge of honor. I think that it's self-destructive to become comfortable with our prejudices. And I agree with Deda. We can feel good that we don't act in any blatant way on our prejudices, but some are very subtle and hard to root out. I have prejudices that I have to continually work on that may not be obvious because I don't speak about them to others or act upon them.
Prejudices of the heart poison oneself, whether they are ever expressed or acted upon.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:03 AM

A WASPy friend of mine married a Mexican man and they had three children together. One day their preteen son nade a flip remark about Mexicans and his mather began, 'David!'.

He said, 'Oh yeah, sorry. You're part Mexican, aren't you.'

She said, 'No, I'm not. But you are.'

We need someone to remind us that our neighbors are ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: My Prejudices
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:41 PM

LOL!! Great story, Ebb!!

A