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BS: Osama offers truce...

Bobert 19 Jan 06 - 06:32 PM
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Subject: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:32 PM

Well, according to the news this evening Osoma has offered Bush a truce...

Bush, according to a White House spokesman ain't interested...

Hmmmmmmmm? I thought he said it was his job to protect the American people???

But, hey, no one ever accused Bush of being a smart person, did they???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:39 PM

bobert, you just are not the brightest bulb in the fixture.

No one in their right mind makes a deal with pure evil.

Terrorism is not to be bargained with. I would truly believe that perhaps the only one who would trust Osama might be you and a couple other pinheads here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:41 PM

Bobert, I'm afraid that I wouldn't trust Osama bin Laden. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:44 PM

Nobody here trusts bin Laden. However not too many trust Bush, either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:48 PM

I'd make the deal then shoot the f#cker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:56 PM

I trust Bush for not dealing with this radical Moslem terrorist.

Yes, he is a Moslem terrorist, just to remind you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:56 PM

Bobert:

If it is true that Osama was the mastermind behind the unilateral act of war on 9-11, then I am afraid he will have to go the whole path to surrendering or dying. He's not going to get a truce, and I don't believe he could be trusted to keep one, since he has shown himself to be a mass murderer. Worse, one who claims religious pretexts so he won't have to confront his personal psychosis.

Your remarks about Bush are correct, but in this case whoever made his call for him, I believe, made the right one. Even if it means he wants to negotiate, the first offer always gets turned down when you're playing hardball, no?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 06:59 PM

He made his own call. You are too full of hate to not give him credit, Amos.

That's just as obvious as how wrong bobert was in his opening statemnt in this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Troll
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 07:00 PM

Lemme esplain it Bobert.

This "truce" offer is a win-win situation for bin Laden. If we accept, he has time to rebuild has terrorist network without hinderance from the US. He can also "rebuild" Afghanistan and Iraq, but not in the way he wants you to believe.

His rebuilding would include reinstalling the Taliban in Afghanistan and installing a Taliban type government in Iraq. Thewn, when he had those countries -and maybe Pakistan_ securely under his control, he would find some excuse to break the truce and the sleepers that he had installed in America would strike.

Is this plain enough for you? Or is even further explaination necessary?

Remember what his deputy, al-Zarqawi (sp) said in the statement he issued the first week in Jan.
They will give up the Jihad when, 1) all infidels are out of the Arab land of Palestine, and 2) the whole world comes under Sharia (Islamic) Law.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 07:17 PM

Martin:

Sorry to see your head is still up your anal passage, smelly-breath. He made his own call!! Ya gotta love it. Bush wouldn't be able to make a decision like that without checking with his keepers.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 07:31 PM

Hey, did I say that Osama get's off "scott free"??? No, I didn't say that or imply it for that matter...

What I did was point out that Bush's reluctance to consider anything but what his neocon advisors want him do do...

Same with Iran and N. Korea...

This stubborness will create two new countires with nuclear capabilities...

So, yeah, tonight if I'm Buash and gone 'round the land tellin' folks that it's my job to protect them, I don't dismiss this so quickly... Hey, this could have led to something... Maybe a little dialogue...

But shuitting the door Bush has not made Americans safer but less safe...

MO...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 07:41 PM

Terrorism is not to be bargained with.

As a general statement that is actually nonsense. Start counting the number of many countries being run by people with terrorist backgrounds, and having cordial relations with the rest of the world, and you'll run out of fingers and toes, and still only be starting.

That's a separate matter from the specific case of Bin Laden. True enough, by now there's as much or more innocent blood on the hands of Bush, but at least there's a certainty that his time in active political life is time-limited.

Sooner or later there'll be a démarche of some kind, there always is, but it won't be until Bin Laden is out of the picture, and some Islamic equivalemnt of de-Stalinisation has taken place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,Anonny Mouse
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 07:43 PM

I though OBL was already dead according to that other thread? Guess not huh? Just another ploy no matter who made the offer. There are just some people you cant "dialog" with and Bin Laden is one of 'em. Seems the Brits (Chamberlain) tried that with ol' Adolf--didn't work-never will.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 07:45 PM

Well, McG, I think that is one thing that both Bush and bin Laden have in common...

Both Stalinist beneath it all...

With a lot of folks caught in the iddle... Unfortunately, it's these folks who are doing the dieing...

Idealogues with weapons can be some danegrous folks...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Troll
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 07:56 PM

Bin Laden and his followers are religious fanatics. Their stated objective is to have the whole world under Islamic Law.

How in hell do you have a dialog with someone like that?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:00 PM

You have the dialog and keep seeking 'intelligence' as to the leaders of the organization. Then, you kill the f#ckers.

What's with all this "let's play fair" shit. Search, find and destroy.

Anybody here want to play by the rules with bin Laden's crew? Be the first on your block . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:06 PM

Shhhhhhhhhhh, Bruce...

Osomabaa might be listenbaa...

(Wink, wink...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:13 PM

OK. I'll be quiet now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: leftydee
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:14 PM

Troll,

(Bush) and his followers are religious fanatics. Their stated objective is to have the whole world (embrace the form of government they favor).

How in hell do you have a dialog with someone like that?

That being said, I'd like to see Osama's head on a pike. He's dealing from weakness, it's time to actually try to find him and kill his ass.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Alba
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:18 PM

Well I have no comment on OBL's hands across the Desert offer...

I will say though that your same statement Troll could be true on the other side of the Table.
Bush and his followers are fanatics. Their stated objective is to have the whole world under their thumb.


I was amazed at the White House Press Mouth's comments tonight.
Seems now that OBL started the War in Iraq???...Did I miss something here..is this administration still coming back and trying to sell the same sh** to people that nobody bought the first time round!
What the F*** did OBL have to with the invasion of Iraq????

OBL is the Bogeyman...you don't makes deals with bogeymen. You can't make deals with Bogeymen because you can't see them or find them...they are just there...waiting....that is the nature of bogeymen also known as terrorism.

and you don't believe DC Spin either...
The W H Press Mouth could tell me it was January and I would have to go and check the Calendar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Alba
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:21 PM

leftydee:) I didn't see your post before I submited mine...we kind of thought the same thing.
Best of Wishes
Jude


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:24 PM

I trust Bush to do what is in the best interests of the Neocon aganda. That is all I trust Bush about. I trust ObL to wage a terrorist war against civilians. That is all I trust ObL about.

The Neocons need a crisis in America. They need a way to get American troops into American streets without alarming the population. This will work well for both of them, IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:26 PM

Hey, it has been a while since the Bushites have had a booget man... They tried to promote Semator Murtha but, in spite of the Swift Boat Liars for Truth< Murtha just hasn't been gaining an traction and poor ol' Ted Kenneday ain't as sexy a boogie man as he once was... So what's Bush to do but drag Osoma off the death-bed and promote hi as boogie-man-again...

Yopu know, I getting real tired of Karl Rove's little tricks... Like what does he really think of the American people??? Must think them as dumb as a box of creek rocks...

And he may be right...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:16 PM

Congratulations, Bobert and Peace, you are just about coming to recognise the state that the Israeli's have been living with for the past 40 odd years - an implacable foe who will offer you a truce but will not recognise your right to exist in peace.

There is no dealing with this cancer you just do whatever you can to eradicate it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,Crowbar
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:22 PM

Bobert deals with the devil a lot. Maybe he is related.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:28 PM

No, Teribus. There is no relation at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:32 PM

Interesting comment, T...

"40 years"????

Hmmmmmmmmm???

I'f I'm doing the same thing for 40 years that ain't workin' then it ain't the other guys fault... I can only control what I do and "40 years" is way too long to put up with failure...

Way too long...

Einstien said that "a problem canot be solved with the same consciousness that created it" and also said...

"Insanity is repeating a behavior expecting different results..."

40 years??????????????

Hmmmmmmm??????????????

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:35 PM

Game is called survival Bobert - makes the stakes rather high and you tend to play that bit harder - you have never had to do it, but others have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:37 PM

Spare us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:42 PM

Nah, T, yer wrong... I know all about survival...

And I know when to "hold 'um and when to fold 'um"....

I live in the real world and eal with real people... You'd be surprised that over the last 120 years I have been on more committes packed with Repubs than you could shake a stick at...

No, I know all about survival in the real world...

It's here in Mudville that I have the safety (I would hope...) to say stuff I can't say in my real world...

And I've learned that there are a lot of us folks doing what I am doing... Lots!!!

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:45 PM

He is one of the folks who sold your democracy for his own security. Has nothing to do with loving America, Bobert. He's a f#ckin' troll. Forget him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:53 PM

So Bobert believes that he is 120 years old. Actually compared to some of the crap that this guy has come up with in the time that I have exposed to his totaly irrelevant blatherings that is probably one of the most believable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 09:54 PM

He makes a typo and that's what you latch onto? F#ck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 10:01 PM

The Israel analogy is not at all close. That's a dispute between two sets of people, both with a reason to want to live in the same part of the world, and withdisagreements about the political arrangements they want to see to guarantee their right to live there.

In the course of the dispute there've been atrocities enough and terror of various sorts, but there's no fundamental reason why a peaceful settlement can't be achieved. Analogous in many ways to what has happened in many parts of the world, including Ireland. In the end the terrorists, or the heirs of the terrorists, have to establish a peace process that draws a line under the years of useless killing.

The business with Al Qaeda is something different, and more intractable. It's more analogous with the religious wars that have littered some periods of our history. And yet they came to an end, though more through exhaustion than any kind of negotiation. And that will happen in time with this one. The important thing is to minimise the damage caused in the meantime, all kinds of damage, spiritual and moral as well as physical.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 10:07 PM

There you go again, T... Pickin' in my typos... Sure you ain't like a 9th grade English teacher... Way to concerned about typos and spellin...

Kinda anal, ain't ya, pal?????

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 10:30 PM

Personal Attack again Bobert?

By the bye MGOH have you actually read OBL's 1998 Fatwah directed at the US? Please explain how you reason with that sort of thinking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,BEOTH
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 10:52 PM

In the same spirit as Bobert let me offer a modest proposal:

We wait until we get 'intelligence' in triplicate as to the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden. We do nothing for a few weeks until we have some sort of satellite monitoring in place to verify that it is indeed he. We observe the various aggregations of his followers and their families. At a suitable point at which a maximum of them are within a 100 metre radius of OBL, we detonate a low yield nuclear device as close as possible to the kind tested by Pakistan, already.

This should solve all sorts of problems at once.

A truce we can live with with some chance of actually working.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 10:54 PM

"No one in their right mind makes a deal with pure evil."


So...what are ya sayin', Martin? That Osama should not offer a truce to Bush? ;-)

Yeah, I'm thinking that was a bit naive of him too. Bush is not the kind one negotiates with, except from a position of overwhelming strength.

I think the Fatwah was directed at a particular constituency: the Muslim audience from which Osama recruits those willing to kill for the cause and sacrifice themselves. I really seriously doubt that a man as well educated and traveled as Osama Bin Laden literally believes he can put the whole world under Islamic law! Gimme a break. LOL! He could not possibly believe it. But...if he wanted to whip up fanatical support among the young and very naive people he needs to do the fighting and dying for his cause...then he'll say it, right? It's propaganda aimed at a specifically Muslim audience, and not a very modern-minded one either. You can find similar nonsense being spewed by Christian fundamentalists in America all the time. Do they represent all Christians or all Americans? No.

Politicians spout extreme nonsense to motivate the troops. Osama is no exception. Do you know that Churchill once made a statement that all the Japanese must be exterminated? Down to man, woman, and child?

What would you do with a statement like that if you wanted to paint the English government in the '40's as "pure evil"? You could do that, couldn't you?

Osama was talking through his hat in that Fatwah. It was said to create an effect in the Muslim audience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 10:57 PM

Ahhhhhhh, remember, T-Assigner... I don't do no more of yer homework assignments anymore....

Maybe you'd like to paraphrase it....

And, BTW, where was thwe "personal attack"??? All I did was point out the obvious in that since you had no real rebuttal to offer you instead choose to pick on a typo....

Hardly an "attack", T-Oversensitive...

You are on yer meds, ain't ya????

Real touchy, ain't ya T-Touchie???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:04 PM

Amos, you are laughable in your hate for Bush. It's so laughable that it's frightening enough to let the FBI know.

I tell it how it is and all you can do is insult. Seems to me that you easily show your very true reactionary self more and more, Amos. Almost as much as bobert shows that he is not going to win many IQ matches.

Bush has convictions about not dealing with terrorists and all you can do is deny that in your hate for him. You probably hate him more than Osama does. Maybe you are more dangerous to Bush than Osama is. I don't see terrorists here hating him as much as you do every day. All I say is you with your hate Bush every day never missing a day.

You know, Amos. You are really quite boring, with it. All of your whining has really proved nothing. It's like your hobby is hate itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Alba
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:07 PM

Good Post LH.
Jude


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:13 PM

I tell it how it is and all you can do is insult. Seems to me that you easily show your very true reactionary self more and more, Martin.

I think if you look into our respective histories you will find your proclivity for resorting to crude bodily function references as a method of debate is far more exagerrated than mine, Martin. However, out of respect for your recent reformation, I will with draw my remark about the location of yourhead. From what I have seen of Bush explaining things, and read of his speeches, and seen of him in debate, I think you are mistaken. I am sure he has feelings about it, but I doubt he could decide to make a national policy position of them on his own initiative. But I don't know that for a fact, any more than you know the opposite for a fact; you have your beliefs about the man, and I have mine.

It might surprise you to hear it, but there are actually a few things about GWB that I have come, somewhat grudgingly, to respect. But they are few, and not important things.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:14 PM

But Bush could say, "Hey, let's talk"....

What would be wrong with that???

I mean, really, what would be wrong with that?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:17 PM

Yeah, Little Hawk, you were probably right in what you said.

I don't think America is taking him too seriously. The terror aler code was not raised.

But I do believe, Islamic fanaticism does have a fantasy of an Islamic world and a distaste for life the way it is in First world nations.

Outside of oil, what are the Moslem nations of the middle east contributing to the rest of the world as far as industry, commerce, and world trade goes? What have these countries done in the world of medicine and science to benefit mankind?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:17 PM

"I really seriously doubt that a man as well educated and traveled as Osama Bin Laden literally believes he can put the whole world under Islamic law!"

Actually Bin Laden has not travelled much outside of the middle east, Sweden for a couple of weeks with his family when he was around 13 yrs ... he has been mostly fundimentally educated ... being that and his being a fanatical Muslim, there is only one religion only and that is Islam.

Osama's taped message today cannot be taken lightly ... shrewd, calculated move ... he obviously knows there would be no talk of truce .. it's a phschological tactic to keep the U.S. involved in the war ... the longer it goes, the more it will drain the U.S. economy, and moral ... weakening their position so that they will eventually leave the mideast with their tail between their legs. Islam will be then strong, it will the victor, Allah will be proven the holliest of all. Next target, eliminating the last bastion of the infidels from the mid-east ... Israel.

That taped message is not to be taken lightly.

sIx


sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Old Guy
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:18 PM

Please Masa Osama boss don't hit me no mo, ise do what you say. I be good boy.

Fer Christ sakes Bobert grow a spine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:27 PM

"Outside of oil, what are the Moslem nations of the middle east contributing to the rest of the world as far as industry, commerce, and world trade goes? What have these countries done in the world of medicine and science to benefit mankind?"

to them it doesn't matter MG ... Islam is all that matters.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:27 PM

It should be fairly obvious why he's surfaced now--look at all the talk about his being dead--why it even rated a thread here by one of our political experts. If this absurdly nebulous "offer" sows discord in the West--and it looks like it could-- that's a bonus for him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:35 PM

Personally, I'd take Peace's side regarding this ..

"I'd make the deal then shoot the f#cker."

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Old Guy
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:38 PM

Hey Bobert. You think like Chamberlain. You want to make a deal with the enemy that is determined to wipe you out. That dog won't hunt. Never did

"On 29th September, 1938, Chamberlain, Adolf Hitler, Edouard Daladier and Benito Mussolini signed the Munich Agreement which transferred to Germany the Sudetenland, a fortified frontier region that contained a large German-speaking population."

Now tell us what happened after that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:38 PM

"why it even rated a thread here by one of our political experts."

An expert in bullshit, perhaps.


6, I do fear for Israel. And yes, all they care about is their own Islamic selves. Which is why they are not part of modern mankind and maybe, just maybe need to be dealt with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:52 PM

The Islamic world made great contributions to the rest to the World in an earlier historicial period (as well as running around conquering a lot of people, which was not appreciated in the least!) They were once considered a fountainhead of advancement in many areas of life. Since the Reformation in Europe, though, Islam has been badly left behind in social development. Their history in the last 200 years has been a sad one...kind of like China's history in the 1800s and early 1900s.

Now you would not think that from knowing any number of well-educated and thoroughly modern Muslim Canadians that I know personally. I know not one of them who in any way supports terrorism or wants Israel destroyed or anything like that. I know of not one who supports Osama or Al-Queda.

Although the Muslim nations have mostly been lacking in developing modern democracies, their middle class people, I think, hunger for such developments...but are opposed by reactionary forces among the clergy and general public in their countries.

It's a really odd situation when one meets these tremendously bright, open-minded, cosmopolitan Muslim people in one's own life...and hears at the same time that to Muslims "Islam is all that matters."

I can't sort it out.

Of all the Muslim countries, though, Saudi Arabia appears to be the hardest line in a fundamentalist sense, with Iran coming just after. That's ironical, because the Saudis are American allies (thus far). Oil talks, doesn't it?

Osama? He deals in rhetoric. That's his job. He plays to his audience, his constituency, and they are Muslim fundamentalists of the most extreme sort. Don't expect him to say anything they wouldn't like to hear.

6 - That's interesting what you said about Osama's education. He may have been more cloistered as a young person than I thought. I saw a lengthy program on Saudi society, and it was scary. The ironical thing about the USA going after Saddam is...Iraq under Saddam and the Baath Party was the least Muslim fundamentalist, most westernized Arab society in the whole region. They were the direct alternative to the Mullahs in Iran, and were hated by Muslim religious fundamentalists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:55 PM

That's a pretty good way of saying that they are overall pretty fucked up, Little Hawk.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 11:58 PM

Yes, but I could say that about the Little League Hockey teams around here too... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 12:00 AM

Well, there is no terror alert over Litlle League Hockey teams.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 12:01 AM

LH .. Actually you are very correct about what the Muslims did offer to society ... they where the fountainead of advancement in many, many areas ... they where also very tolerant of other religions, the Christian Crusades put a dent into that tolerance ... when we argure here about today's Islam, unfortuantely the current fundimentalist seems to be the focus ... but unfortuantely that is the movement which is sweeping all of Islam in reality .... and fundimentalists, being what they are in all religions, drag civilization back to the stone age ... overall, it is a situation in the world today that must somehow come to a reconcilliation .... how it will or can be done, I dunno .. but the world as a whole has to arrive at a remedy soon or later.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 12:13 PM

The common error here is to confuse all Muslims with terrorism.

I have lived among Muslims, and found those I knew and liked to be highly civilized, caring people concerned, like we are, for family and home and children.

I have also seen and spoken to Muslims who were treasonous and engaged in political schemes of violence.

I suppose the same extremes are found among other religious groups; the spotlight on fanatic Islamic fundamentalism should not fool you into painting all Muslims withthe same brush. To let it do so would be to subscribe to generalized hatred which is never a good idea. If you do not choose your targets wisely, you will be weakened by your own efforts in hating the wrong things.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 12:14 PM

I do agree with most of the GUARDIAN's leader: In the shadow of Bin Laden


This will not be to be treated as a genuine truce offer, for it would provide al-Qaida with the time, space and place to resume planning a renewed terror campaign. There is, though, a political claim in this message that cannot be completely disregarded, designed to play into a naïve belief in some parts of the west that negotiations with Bin Laden may offer a way out of the terror and security-dominated world in which we now live.

Two further remarks: (1) I am amazed that this whole thread is only about a minor part of BL's speech, and not about the major part. Not once the word "threat" has been used so far.
(2) I'm with McGrath, the McGrath way back in 2001, who has reminded us then that the WTC attack should not be seen as a war, but as a criminal act and that BL and his ilk should be hunted down as one hunts criminals. There can be no truce with criminals, only perhaps negotiations about the conditions of surrender.

The Bobert type reaction upon reading the word 'truce' is the left mirror image of GWBush's 'war against terror', similarily misguided and wrong.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 02:12 PM

Amos,

Re your 20 Jan 06 - 12:13 PM post: I agree, completely.




Bobert,

So, what would you tell friends when the KKK wants to march and have a dialog about race relations?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 02:13 PM

Well put, Wolfgang; having read the transcript of bin Laden's remarks, I think he could easily inspire a great deal of rancour in people who remember the sights of 9-11. Ifhe were to be so brazen as to launch another mass murder on American soil he would wake the sleeping giant; and possibly, a third World War. Nasty piece of business, this bloke, despicable and underhanded.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 02:44 PM

Amos, I am not confusing all Moslems to terrorism.

But name me something good and useful in ther world invented by one.

One that civilized humanity has benefitted from. One in let's say, the last 100-200 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 05:20 PM

I'm still waiting, Amos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 05:28 PM

from UK TV.

"If we're going to deal with terrorists, then lets deal with them properly.

What's Allah offering you? 70 virgins? We'll give you 100 slags. Or two Dundee women."


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 05:45 PM

I don't agree with a lot that the Bush administration does but I do this time. You can not deal with rat bastards like Osam bin Laden. The man cannot be trusted, catering to him would be a far greater evil than we can afford to commit Hunt him down and all of his ilk and make them Purina worm chow Neil


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 06:57 PM

"But name me something good and useful in ther world invented by one.

One that civilized humanity has benefitted from. One in let's say, the last 100-200 years."

Martin, I hesitate to get involved in the on-going dispute you guys have. However, I will.

The Muslim/Moslem/Arab contributions to world knowlede in mathematics, optics, medicine, science, astronomy, navigation--the list ain't endless but it is a long one. Next time ya use the deca system to do yer math, you can thank a long-dead Arabic scholar for the zero. In the past few hundred years, their contribution to 'knowledge' has not been great. However, before 1700, the North American contribution to world knowledge was nothing to write home about. My Scottish ancestors made tremendous contributions to humankind's data bank, but of late, no.

I think we have to remember Newton when he said, "If I have seen further, it's because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." So have we all. We are not the products of our own abilities, but rather we are the products of all our abilities, past and present.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 07:20 PM

Zero, for one; like you, Martin.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 07:42 PM

Where would science be without algebra?

The word algebra is derived from the name of the treatise first written by Persian mathematician Al-Khwarizmi titled: Al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, meaning, "The book of summary concerning calculating by transposition and reduction." The word al-jabr means "reunion". Khwarizmi is often considered as the "father of modern algebra". Much of Khwarizmi's works on reduction was included in the book and added to many methods we have in Algebra now.

Trying to denigrate the Muslim world by belittling its contributions to humanity is rather like King Canute ordering the tide to recede. One only ends up looking like a fool.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 07:54 PM

Bearded Bruce, Old Guy and any one else who has attacked me since I was last on the computer:

You won't win against either the Grand Wizzards or the Osoma's of the world with more guns...

This is an important point... And it hasn't one thing to do with spine, or testesterone or any of that stuff...

The 9/11 Commission recommmended that the Bush administration make steps in fighting the "causes" of terrorism... Bush souldn't care less about the causes even if dealing with them might prevent abnother 9/11...

No, it would seem that if the mighty USD were to actaully talk with folks and try tio understand what their beef is against the US that in doing so the US would be reduced to "girly boy" status... This is absolute carp and is gonna get more folks killed... I know, "Who friggin cares as long as we ain't no girly boy country???"

This is some major screwed up thinking. The 9/11 comission knew it yet the Bush folks still wnat to play the testesterone driven foriegn policy out... Well, like Doctor Phail asks, "Is it working for you???"...

Hmmmmmmm???

So yeah, if Old Guy and BB find no reason to communicate with folks over differences then theat's their perogative... Won't stop either terrorism or the KKK...

BObert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 07:58 PM

"Where would science be without algebra? "

I'm sure a lot of high school kids are extremely grateful for the invention of algebra.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 08:00 PM

in an oblique way you could say OBL was responsible for the war on Iraq.
By goading the US into attacking a muslim nation which after all was one of the intended aims of 911, as it would result in more recruits for their cause.

What is their cause- it's not because 'they hate our freedom' as BUsh say (which only a child would believe).
Their plans - which theyve made clear were to install sympathetic regimes in the muslim world as well as the rest of the world (although that was never likely) It didnt work terribly well in Afghanistan as the Taliban fell quickly and without a lot of civilian casualties, but the invasion of Iraq was in fact like a Christmas present for Osama. Despite whatever sympathy Al Qaeda may have in the Muslim world, they are a very small network, their most effective weapons are the media manipulations - and they are masters at it - and the Western media falls for it.

and their agenda just happened to collide with and energize the agenda of another group of fanatics - the US neocons who would like to try to establish Pax Americana - and make the world safe for 'market' democracy.

I dont worry at all about Al Qaedas threats, at most they might kill a small number of people (as bad as 911 was with 3000 people killed, its about as many Americans that get killed by handguns each month) why dont we have a war on handguns- or on tobacco companies which through their product result in the death of 500,000 US Citizens.

What I worry about far more is the agenda of the neocons, because it takes the world back to the 19th century system of ententes and alliances and the law of the jungle. It is doomed to fail,
because in the end economics trumps all and in that the US is declining - and will be surpassed by China in 25years or so.
And also despite a massive military, the US population has a low tolerance for war casualties, and the high taxes that go with war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 08:00 PM

Robert Dreyfusss offers an interesting essay on American contributions to the rise of radical Islamism during the decades of the Cold War as a defense against Soviet expansion.

His article is too general, and needs more particulars; it is kind of blue sky. But he does actually indicate some interesting historical patterns.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 08:36 PM

Good point, Petr...

Yeah, if Osoma wanted to suck the US into Iraq-mire, he sho nuff had the right sucker in George the Chickenhawk Warrior...

And look what it's gotten the US??? Universal disrespect from the rest of the world for our governemnt... No, they may not be mad at us but they sho nuff don't think much of the Chickenhawk Warrior and his cast of chickenhawk warriors...

Hey, if this was TV wrestling or NASCAR it might be at least entertaining but there's nothing entertaining about what we are seeing...

Might of fact, at times it seem evry surreal that my country could be going thru this... Where's Bobby Kennedy when we need him the most???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 08:41 PM

Sorry, Bobert. Where's Eugene McCarthy when we need him most.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 08:46 PM

Martin, why do you think they call Iran the cradle of civilization?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 08:56 PM

Okay, Bruce.... Just didn't feel like cuttin' my hair... It was just gettin' to that "way long" stage... But, yeah, I din't have no beef with Gene... Sho nuff didn't 'cept the haircuts that som,e of my buds was getting before going out knockin' on doors...

Plus, I felt that Kennedy was the better all-around candidate....

Both were against the war but Bobby had a bigger domestic vision...

MO, of course....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 06 - 09:00 PM

I kinda agree and I do understand. Kennedy had the 'charisma' that McCarthy didn't. I thought at the time that it would be good to get away from the Kennedys. BUT, I would have been OK with Bobby getting elected. BTW, I had hair halfway down my back. I cut it to just below my collar. That's how clean I went. Also, I worked the entire campaign wearing jeans and usually a workshirt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 12:25 AM

dianavan, it may have once been the cradle of civilization, but now it's the cradle of Israel's biggest threat which I am quite sure that is one of the reasons you support Iran. Your anti-Israel stance is paramount here.

Amos. That's right. Zero. And Don, trying to protect the Moslem world for their complete non-contribution to mankind in the last 100 or 200 years makes you look like you will defend just about anyone or any terrorist. It is the liberal and tolerant way, isn't it?   Who cares about some idiot named King Canute? You need to get out more oftern, don for some fresh air.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Old Guy
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 01:25 AM

Right Bobert. You are defeated. You can't win. It is too hard. Too many sacrifices must be made. Just lay down and let Osama roll you under da bus. Sign that pact with the devil. It is easier. Take the easy way out. Wimp out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 09:03 AM

What is a terrorist? To King George the third, George Washington was a terrorist. They are fighting us the only way they can. They are convinced that we are out to destroy Islam. Sure the Crusaders butchered 50,000 muslim men, women and children in one raid, but that was long ago and they should get over it. Sure the UN took a huge chunk of their land and gave it to Israel, their worst enemy, but what the hell, they wer'nt using it anyway. Sure we are stationing our "infidel" troops on their holy ground but they have only been there a few years.

Lookie, there is no way we can win a military victory over there. We would have to kill over a billion Muslims to do it. I saw the interview with Bush in which he stated that very truth. Afterwards, his trainers got to him and he recanted. Now, is anyone in his right mind thinking otherwise?

Once again. IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US!


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Old Guy
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 09:50 AM

Hey. Didn't you know there is a moratorium here on comparing the present circumstances with anything in the past?

All that matters is THIS war and how horrible, mean and nasty it is, how illegal it is, regardless of any other war or any actions taken by any other presidents.

Exceptions can be made for certian individuals who ingore their own rules like:

From: Amos - PM
Date: 17 Jan 06 - 01:45 PM

I recall one Revolution where it worked handsomely. It was a rough slog, though...

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 19 Jan 06 - 08:17 PM

Good points troll and GUEST, JTT nad the two posts, if taken collectively, tell a much larger story...

Yeah, Thomas Jefferson warned us that if democracy would work it would tinvolved and informed electorate... Well, like troll has pointed out, most kids don't know sh*t from shinola...


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 12:31 PM

granted, since the industrial revolution started in Britain its no surprise that most scientific development has been in the west, however over the past 200 years or so the west is also responsible for some ofthe most destructive wars in history (as well as some of the most destructive weapons).

the war on terror is a useful tool for this Administration to use in its
recent powergrab, Al Qaeda is no real threat to America and should be
dealt with as any other criminal organization. I will say that going into Afghanistan was correct and if Al Gore had been elected he would have done the same, although probably not as well as this administration.
Credit where credit is due.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 12:41 PM

"Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him"

The old Cardinal wasn't too far off the mark judging by some statements on this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 12:43 PM

"Al Qaeda is no real threat to America"

This is from a guy who can't even spell Peter correctly.

And of course you are Al Gore's personal spokesman. What a joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 05:12 PM

Ok, all you war supporters, what is your solution? Forget how we got into it, how do we get out of it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Troll
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 06:00 PM

We keep doing what we've been doing and when the Iraqi government is strong enough to take care of the defense of the country, we leave.

I recall what a captain in Iraq said in an interview, I believe in Nov. 2005, "If I depended on the news media for all my information, I'd be depressed too."

Regarding the seriousness of bin Laden as a threat, study Islamic history. The northward advance of Islam was stopped in southern France and the Moors fell back into Spain whence they were finally expelled by Ferdinand and Isabelle in 1492. It is called the Reconquesta.

The armies of the Ottoman Sultan, Suleyman the Great, broke on the walls of Vienna and Suleyman died shortly thereafter.

The Muslim world went into an eclipse both politically and culturally.
The drive had been to establish Islam worldwide just as the Prophet had commanded. Only in Africa did it continue and eventually, it too slackened.

Muslims have not forgotten their glory years. They remember the Crusades like some Southerners remember the Civil War.

Now bin Laden offers to get it all back and pay the world back for treating the followers of Allah like dogs. Can you blame them for supporting him? And even if they don't, they are afraid to speak out, just as some people in the American South were afraid to speak out against the Klan, or Christians today are loath to speak out against our own Fundamentalists.

I think the threat is very serious and I don't believe the War on Terror can be "won" but I do think (and hope) that the bin Ladens of this world can be contained.

Troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 06:11 PM

Dianavan-- I assume you mean Iraq, not Iran.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 06:13 PM

And it's somewhat dangerous to even say Iraq--somebody is bound to point out that Iraq did not exist as a country until the 20th century.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 06:27 PM

IF---- the Iraqi government--which hasn't even been formed yet-- is strong enough.

The question is what we do if many Sunnis don't feel they are included in the government--or--remembering their glory days as the minority which ruled the majority, feel they should have more power than they are allotted-----and wind up strengthening the insurgency.

This is as likely as a successful democracy in Iraq.

Bush may not be able to declare victory (again) and bring the troops home.

"Stay the course" may not work.

At this point nobody knows--it's premature to declare success or failure--and, to a large extent, it's out of our hands anyway---since the ultimate answer will depend on internal political developments in Iraq.

But a little realism is in order.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Troll
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 08:38 PM

well, I was told that many Sunnis voted in the last election despite being told to stay home so they must feel that they have SOME say in whats happening.

It's my understanding that most of the political power under Saddam was concentrared within his own clan from Takrit and that, while they were Sunni, the average Sunni had no more power than did the average Shi'ite. I may have misinterpreted my information but I feel sure that any errors I may have made will be corrected by those more knowledgible than I.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 09:48 PM

Good shot, Kendall...

Seesm that fir5 alot of folks here in Mudville the only solution to anything is to misquote and twist the words of the anti-Bush folks here...

Then they want to say, "Hey, you Kerry commies don't have no plan..."

Like....ha..... No, not haha....But, ha.... That's 'bout all it warrents...

Yeah, they attack and attack, twist and twist words but when thew chiops are down thet are really to ones without a clue...

Yeah, good shot, Capt'n...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 10:53 PM

No one here has any plan. And if they did, no one here is in any position to implement it.

That's why these discussions have zero impact and are mostly rhetorical, somewhat boring, and somewhat self-servicing.

Lately, I have been just enjoying pointing that out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 11:29 PM

Osama seems to think he has a solution. Maybe you should talk to him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jan 06 - 11:39 PM

"That's why these discussions have zero impact"

If that was a reality, no one from either political persuasion would post responses to anything. As to influencing the 2006 elections, no, I think not. As to clarifying views--sometimes changing them somewhat and other times just goin' into the wind--I think the threads do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:22 PM

Forget Iraq. I don't believe that was part of the "War on Terror" Get BinLaden and Al-Zarqawi. Cripple Al Qaeda every chance we can. Finish what started even before Setember 11,2001.
As to Iraq, set up a stable government and get the hell out as soon as we can but by no means go just because of the nature of how we got in there. I agree the American peple were lied to to go into Iraq but we have to suceed there. This country can not afford another Vietnam.
Then let Congress find out exactly what happened and deal with it. My view for what it's worth. Neil


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:30 PM

That's the point, Peace. A big "So What." People would still post to all of the other stuff that goes on, espeically to the music threads.

The political threads here do not influence many or much from either direction. They are overall mostly hostile, decisive, and ultimately, meaningless and have zero impact.

I give you credit, though Bruce. You do not write long-winded diatribes loaded with hate and disdain. You seem comfortable in your own skin and environment and are certainly not obsessive like quite a few others who really seem to have very little else to think or write about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:35 PM

My main enjoyment on the Mudcat is finding lyrics that people want. I am not in the same class as the scholars here: Masato, Q, Malcolm, Jim--but I have fun doing it. Most of the other stuff I can take or leave. You and I have traded our political views and we both know that neither of us is going to change the other guy's view. We decided long ago to live with it, and it works for us.

Be good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:40 PM

You too, Bruce.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 03:29 PM

at least I have a real name and that's how it is spelled.
there are other languages in this world.
and I dont need to hide behind some phony guitar names.

the economy is doing very well you say?
sure, aside from the deepest deficit of any nation in history.
and bush started with a surplus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 04:50 PM

As for Osama's 'truce' I'm more intrigued that the tape seemed of such low quality and already some weeks old. Coming this way a 'truce' seems more like a sign of weakness.

The political effect of a threat by Saddam at this stage is a kneejerk reaction in favor of the current US administration.

Islam as a major religion is like Judaism and Christianity. They are pretty much different aspects of the same religion, give or take a messiah. Islam is by far the youngest of the major religions, by 600 years, and if you look at where Christianity was 600 years ago, you can spot them their lack of an "Englightenment" and be somewhat more understanding.

As with all religions, change comes over time, with changes in social structures brought on by technology, war and political processes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 04:57 PM

"The political threads here do not influence many or much from either direction. They are overall mostly hostile, decisive, and ultimately, meaningless and have zero impact."

I have to agree with you on this MG.

Much of it reminds me of Sunday nite suppers (when I was Kid) with Uncle Norman. Listening to him rant on and on ... "if I ruled the world".

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 05:26 PM

When the president of the United States says on national tv that we can not win a military victory in Iraq, it's time to listen.

There is a local fellow who recently returned from Iraq, and he claims that we are training Iraquis to fight our way, then when they have completed their training, they are going over to the other side!


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 05:47 PM

How do we know petr is your real name and maybe you just do not know how to spell it?

Number 6, thanks for agreeing. It's nothing more than you describe except here it's done in the pretense of pseudo-intellectualism and make some folk singer types think their life has some influence on the whole world through a silly far left wing ranting soapbox.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Troll
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 06:48 PM

Ease up MG. For some people this forum is their one chance to speak their piece. So what if they are mostly preaching to the chior.

It's the fact that they are able to speak out that's important, not what they say or its impact.

Very few mudcatters have any sort of national forum on which to make their views known. Festivals and folk clubs are not known for attracting political powers.

If anything, the views expressed here, pro and con, may pique somenoe to act on a local level with the knowledge that they are not alone.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 06:57 PM

Troll!

We have not had hardly any dialogue together!

I have nothing against having the ability to say what one wants. But it's a two way street. Criticizing what is said or the reasons why it is said are the consequences for the initial statement.

Can you imagine if folk clubs or festivals allowed this mentality? There would sure be a lot of broken guitars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 09:47 PM

Actually, Martin, you have just submitted "Exhibit G", after subittin' exhibits A thru F, that you don't know much about the folk music scene... Folk music folks, be they player or listeners, are 'bout 90% aginst Bush aand his war in Iraq...

But, of course, you wounldn't know anything about that because you are not a folk musican...

You are just a loud mouthed Bushite...

But, hey, someone had to take that job... Right???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 10:37 PM

bobert, I play folk and I play country. If what you say is true, 90% of the country musicians are OK with America the way it is. Or at least to the point that they are not obsessed with radical notions and a radical lifestyle And folk music is dwarfed by country. Folk musicians I would say are greatly outnumbered by country musicians and the same goes for the amount of people who support either types of music.

But you wouldn't know either, being strictly a 3 chord blues wannabee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 11:14 PM

What the f$@k is a folk musician ?!?! Jeeezuz, Polka can be considered folk.

MG .... my uncle Norman was a psuedo intellectual. He drove a Volvo (back in the 60's), had every Norman Mailer book, and could recite almost every Lenny Bruce joke ... and he would chastise us kids whenever we would question his grand scheme on how would would rule the world. In reality there was never any politics in the guy since he never did anything concrete when it came to doing anything political ... he was too busy running his Golf Shoe distribution business.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Old Guy
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 12:37 AM

Bobert the tough question skipper:

What happened after Chamberlain, Adolf Hitler, Edouard Daladier and Benito Mussolini signed the Munich Agreement in 1938?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Kaleea
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 12:46 AM

There was a time when the leaders of some of my ancestors would give the dirtyword person who was responsible for such evils to the women (wives & mothers) of the dead.
    Might be interesting to get dubblepew & osawmaw & cheenee & sadsack insane (& perhaps a few others) together & give them to the mothers of those whose deaths they are responsible for, then sit back & wait for some real justice?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:27 AM

because it is.

country - well that explains it, watered down rock with greeting card lyrics.

mg= picayune, pissant, what do you expect from someone who thinks the economys doing great with the deepest deficit of any nation in history.

hey old guy, bout the only similarity betn now and 1938 is that the US used the same kind of rhetoric as the Germans did then before they went into Iraq.

because the US citizens would never have supported an optional war, just to remake the middle east, or to get rid of a dictator (who was their lackey only a few years before), or just make grand powerplay in order to try to hang on as the only superpower.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:27 AM

because it is.

country - well that explains it, watered down rock with greeting card lyrics.

mg= picayune, pissant, what do you expect from someone who thinks the economys doing great with the deepest deficit of any nation in history.

hey old guy, bout the only similarity betn now and 1938 is that the US used the same kind of rhetoric as the Germans did then before they went into Iraq.

because the US citizens would never have supported an optional war, just to remake the middle east, or to get rid of a dictator (who was their lackey only a few years before), or just make grand powerplay in order to try to hang on as the only superpower.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:39 PM

DOn't take it personally, Peter. MG confuses all analysis except his ditto-headism with "whining" or with some other bizarre dysfunction in his inventory -- bad body odor, sexual problems, poor dressing habits, religous perversity, eating disorders, gender confusion, political incorrectitude, or anything else he can dream up to pin on his imaginary opponents. This is his version of dialogue. I know it's sad, but the first step in addressing the problem is recognizing that one exists...


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:49 PM

So now Martin is no longer part of the folk scene but...

...the country scene???

Hmmmmmmm?

I'm sure yer Dean Martin hootenamy stuff will be a big success on the roadhouse circuit!!!

"Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be Martin..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:06 PM

LOL

Actually bobert, I started out in folk music, still do some in performance and do a lot of vintage country from the 50s and 60s.

Except for that one Dean Martin song which Johnny Cash also recorded.

The folk scene is pretty full o f navel gazing songwriter wannabees who are unhappy with the world and want to change it.

I'd rather stick more with country songs which feature cheatin, drinkin', lovin" and broken hearts, as well as trains and trucks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:08 PM

Play them backwards and the dog lives, pickup starts and wife comes home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 10:14 PM

If this don't beat all!! A BS thread that drifted over to talking about music--

For myself, I grew up in a factory town where there was a country bar on every corner and a live Grand Ole' Opry show every Wednesday night--so Peace, let this be a warning, if you running down my country music, you're walking on the fighting side of me--


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 10:18 PM

Leave him alone, MTed. He has listened to too much Anne Murray.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 10:26 PM

LOL, Marty...

Mama, don't let yer babies grow up to be Martin....

"Well I was drunk, the day my mama got out of prison
and I went to pick her up in the rain
but before I could get to the staion in my pickup trcuk
she got runned over by the danged old train...


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,O. Sama
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 12:41 AM

If we can achieve a truce between Bobert and Martin Gibson, I have hope that we may find peace between the Muslim and Christian world.

Is it too much to ask that you treat each other like human beings?

...if not brothers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Troll
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 01:43 AM

NAH! No fun that way.

Watchin' the two of them go at it is almost as much fun as sittin' outside on a warm summer night with a 6-pak, a bug zapper and a Robert Johnson CD playin'.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Alba
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 08:37 AM

Careful Guest: 12.41am,
Putting a name like that after your Guest title will get your system searched by Homeland Security! I ain't kiddin unfortunately!
Take care. Paranoid..yes...valid...well....Domestic Spying is legal....**cough**
Jude:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 11:08 AM

I'm just telling him how it is, Martin--some of us don't see anything wrong with red necks, white socks, and blue ribbon beer--


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 11:58 AM

Difference between rednecks and good ol' boys is that rednecks raise livestock and good ol' boys get intimately involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 12:00 PM

"--so Peace, let this be a warning, if you running down my country music, you're walking on the fighting side of me--"

Hell, son, I like country music, too. Been an Alberta boy for 28 years now. Done my share of brandings, community dinners, etc. Even judged 4H speaking contests. FYI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Once Famous
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 12:27 PM

Interesting bobert, your song, what was described by the great country singer David allan Coe as the ultimate country song, was written by Chicago folksinger great, the late Steve Goodman.

Mted's allusion to red necks, white sox, and blue ribbon beer is a song title from a great honky-tonk favorite orignally written and performed by Johnny Russell. Russell also wrote the Beatles/Buck Owens hit, Act Naturally. He also wrote Catfish John (my favorit version by allsion krauss), I'm Makin' Plans for the future, and many other great country hits.

Now what else do you want to know about this great genre of American music?


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 12:33 PM

"Now what else do you want to know about this great genre of American music?"

I still want to know who put the bomp in the bomp sh bomp sh bomp.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 12:35 PM

Now, now, Martin.

You should realize that Bobert knows everything about everything already. At least that is what he has said a number of times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 12:40 PM

"allsion krauss and union station" rock!


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: GUEST,White power
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 07:33 PM

They're loud, proud and everywhere from East Germany to West Virginia. Neil Mackay spends six months getting to know the white supremacist practitioners of Nazi Hate Rock

Sunday January 22, 2006
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1693062,00.html
Henrik Ostendorf is holed up in an attic room of a dilapidated hotel in a provincial town near Leipzig in the former East Germany. Riot police surround the floodlit building and attack dogs have closed off every exit. The hotel has been taken over by more than a thousand German neo-Nazis - 'musical terrorists' as they are classified by the German police - for the staging of an illegal gig. British white power band Whitelaw will headline the show and are about to take the stage. Lurking in the dark, Ostendorf is watching the scene outside as the police arrest several of his 'comrades' and bundle them into waiting vans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 10:37 PM

Don't forget "dumb",--white power, they are loud, proud, and dumb--we have a few here abouts, and, though they do know to come in out of the rain(at least sometimes) they are none to good about tying their shoes. And, though some would have you think otherwise, there aren't very many of them--people just notice them, because they are loud, proud, and dumb--


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 10:44 PM

"Catfish John (my favorit version by allsion krauss)"

Thanks for mentioning this MG. Now ya got me going here.The Hell with politics for now.

Excellent song by an excellent artist, backed by one of the finest, tightest bands around these days ... talking here about Union Station who are made up of Dan Tyminski, Jerry Douglas, Barry Bales and Ron Block (who is definately one of the most underatted songwriter musician today).

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 11:51 PM

"They're loud, proud and everywhere from East Germany to West Virginia."

Yes, they are. And wherever they may be, Nazis are assholes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jan 06 - 12:05 AM

""They're loud, proud and everywhere from East Germany to West Virginia."

Who ... Allison Kraus and Union Station ????

"Yes, they are"   .....   "no they are not" I retort.

"Nazis are assholes." ... now that is too kind of a discription, Nazis are slime, syphilitic scumbags.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Osama offers truce...
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jan 06 - 12:16 AM

Oh yeah? Nazis are useless suckers of the arseholes of week-dead seagulls that ate the bloated bowels of infected and festering fish.


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