The rock-bottom difference between polit

Subject: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: autolycus
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 06:52 AM

I sent this question to Guardian Notes and Queries. There was little discussion

I'd like to know what the rock bottom, can't go any deeper, reason for people on right being on the right, and likewise the left.

Is the answer, in the final analysis ( !!!??), economic, historical, psychological, ancestral, religious, biological, rational, irrational, intuitive, sociological, or some combination ?

I have asked this of some, who, the first time round, weren't seeing what I was getting at. For example, Richard Perle is on the right, Dennis Skinner M.P. on the left. They're obviously in those political camps because right and left views. Why do people have the political views they do, in the final analysis, i.e. where youcouldn't anymore ask,"And why is that?"

Auto.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 09:36 AM

I think the division of people into 'right' and 'left' politicial groups follows from a slightly different division, ie, those who belive the goverment should be as small and unobtrusive, as possible as most people are better at sorting things out for themselves than the goverment is, and those who believe the opposite.*

This is the basic difference, it's just got mixed up with a whole load of other cultural baggage on the way past, such as political, economic and philosophical theories, and history.

Would our sense of left and right be very different if Marx had dreamt up Communism for real people with their greed and other flaws, rather than the perfect saints he did? Or if the seating arrangents in revolutionary France had been different?

Well, that's my view, anyway.


*Yes ,there are some notible exceptions, such as Fashists

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Micca
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 10:15 AM

Right and Left in Politics came from (as I understand it) from the seating arrangements in the French Assembly in the 18? century in which the conservatives sat to the Right of the Speaker and the Socialists to the Left

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 11:25 AM

"...a slightly different division, ie, those who belive the goverment should be as small and unobtrusive, as possible as most people are better at sorting things out for themselves than the goverment is, and those who believe the opposite.*

In the US, historically, small, unobtrusive government was the approach and goal the Republicans believed in. Kind of a 'pulling up by your own bootstrap' operation: "If I could make it, so can you." The Democrats have always (always? I dunno.) believed that a burden shared makes burdens light, and that with a hand up the 'least' among us can and will become productive members of society. I think the Democrats have always been more idealistic, the Republicans more pragmatic.

How things change.
Today the Republican administration is for BIG government- they want to look in our bedrooms, our mail, our libraries; they assume the right to form other governmnets in our image and the right to make war against them until they do.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 12:16 PM

I think in the large picture there is less difference than you would expect.

A

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:03 PM

I always think of it this way:

R: "I don't have enough money (on top of all I obviously have), and it's all your fault!"

versus

L: "I don't have enough power (on top of all I obviously have), and it's all your fault!"

... with the former (at its extreme) somehow heading toward fascism and the latter toward socialism.

Where they meet in the middle is where the people in whatever is the current "melting pot" tend to get burned up.

~S~

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:12 PM

It depends on the issue as to whether I am left, right, middle of the road.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:25 PM

In the broadest economic terms in Canadian politics it can be said that the right's position is to "take from the poor and give to the rich" ie. cut social programs and reduce the taxes of the wealthy and the left's is to "make the rich pay".

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: leftydee
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:35 PM

When you have a premium membership, you SHOULD pay more.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:54 PM

Right on lefty.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:58 PM

Darn good thing no one names streets Left and Right.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 01:59 PM

Peace is right. Depending on the ssue is the common sense answer. Both factions, right or left lose that perspective.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 02:32 PM

The issue, yes...

But how people feel about such things as socialism or race or nationality, for example, is largely dependent on what they heard about it from older people when they were quite young. Strong impressions are formed in childhood, and they usually last a lifetime.

A child tends to separate the world into "heroes" and "bad guys". Such divisions are generally pretty subjective when it comes to politics. Every fighter in any controversy is a hero in his own eyes.

There's also tribal consciousness ("us and them" psychology). That is pretty strong in most people. It causes a lot of problems in this world.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: jimmyt
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 02:41 PM

I think there is some ezcellent insight so far in this thread. Ebbie is right on with her comments about the present government not being in the mold of Republican thought. As much as many here would disagree, I think of myself as strongly in the middle between the parties. On some key issues I am absolutely left on and for that reason I tend to want the Democrats in power for awhile to keep some balance. ALl in all, on fiscal issues I tend to think Republican makes more sense in the broader picture for all people ( I am not trying to argue here, just saying how I feel) On almost everything else I feel the Democratic party represents my interests better. If I take the test I tend to be a full-on Libertarian.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Once Famous
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 02:49 PM

I tend to be full-on I make up my own mind with no label at all.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 03:24 PM

Mind, Martin?

DT

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Skivee
Date: 22 Jan 06 - 11:30 PM

IMHO:
Rightees want no speed limit and a death penalty
Lefties want no death penalty and a speed limit
Righty women have real jewelry and fake orgasms
Lefty women have fake lewelry and real orgasms
Righties think the other folk should pay more taxes
Lefties think the other folks should pay more taxes
Righties think that it'sa good thing to outsource production to China, but buy their clothes from Brooks Brothers
Lefties have to buy clothes made in China from Walmart, then the picket Walmart
I hope this is helpful

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 10:25 AM

By George, Skivee, I think you've got it.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 10:44 AM

A Republican is someone who spends a lot of his own money making other people do what he thinks they should do.

A Democrat is someone who spends a lot of other peoples money making other people do what he thinks they should do.

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 11:53 AM

beardedbruce, got any stats to go with that statement?

Subject: RE: The rock-bottom difference between polit
From: autolycus
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:27 PM

Thank you so much for your responses.

Theyve clarified my thoughts. I see I really mixed two , related, questions.

(ahem)

1. You've shown what the left and right stand for re money, government,power etc.
I'm just clear why each side has those views.

2. You've demonstrated what people on each side believe, but not why each person is on the side they are (back to the suggested answers in the question as originally put.

It may be of interest to add the essence of one of the answers a Guardian reader provided. To the effect that the left sees a forest while the right sees trees.

My psychological, flying-by-the-seat-of-my-pants, theory, is that those on the right see the world as full of danger (and capitalism and competition tend to pit all against all, compounding the feeling), so number one becomes nearly all; those on the left see all we have done in co-operative terms (thus we don't each use our own language, but a co-created one.)

I dunno....

Auto.