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Subject: Nazi hate-music From: Piers Date: 23 Jan 06 - 09:57 AM FYI: White off the scale - an article from the Observer Music Monthly (22/01/06), featuring Mudcat's favourite fascist, David Hannam. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 23 Jan 06 - 10:11 AM One correction: He's not a fascist, he's a Nazi. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Emma B Date: 23 Jan 06 - 10:51 AM Ok, sorry - it's cut and paste, but for those of you that can't bear to carry on reading some of the Nazi doctrine and offensive language quoted in this excellent article here is exactly why someone like Hannam uses this site! "The senior BNP figure is right behind his music man Hannam. 'People will listen to a song over and over again,' he says, a can of Boddington s in his hand, 'and take all the words in, in a way that you would be very lucky to get one in 100 of them to listen to a speech. Music is a very effective way of getting our views across.'" The best reason of all for not buying this stuff! "It is hard to imagine that Great White Records will see much chart success, but the company's managing director, the outwardly affable David Hannam, sees potential. 'Any money raised by sales will go directly to the BNP and help them in their election funding and other projects that they have got going,' he says. 'It is solely aimed to help the BNP." |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: alanabit Date: 23 Jan 06 - 03:36 PM The article is very interesting indeed. I recall seeing a TV programme here in Germany about a couple of youths caught up with these idiots. The real reason for it was nothing to do with politics. They had experienced a breakdown in the family. The sadder of the two cases, was the fifteen year old, who had been unable to cope with the loss of his father. I think that if something else had filled that hole in his life, before he found the neo Nazis, he would never have gone near them. They say nature abhors a vacuum. It can be filled by anything - even something as repulsive as Nazism. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Sorcha Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:12 PM Makes me ill. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Fullerton Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:30 PM Googled Mr. Hannams name. ------------------------ "Set our people free " - Singer/songwriter Dave Hannam plays the guitar on this track on his own composition. Running time 2'29. £0.95 Didn't Paul Robeson record that? ------------------------ "Patriot" - Singer/songwriter Dave Hannam plays the guitar on this cover of a very popular song which was also used as the theme to the 2004 film "Fahrenheit 9/11". Running time 2'26. £0.95 ------------------------ Who wrote the song? Who owns the copyright? Did you get their permission? |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: GUEST,Anonny Mouse Date: 23 Jan 06 - 04:41 PM Truly sickening...and America has its own little darlings-"Prussian Blue" recently profiled on 20/20 or something--little blue-eyed blonde Britney Spears wannabees spewing the ingrained prejudice and hatred of their sicko Mommy and Granpa who brands his cattle and pickup with swastikas. Lotsa others out there too on "independent labels" with their heavy metal thrash screamers against blacks, Catholics, Jews, you name it. Too bad I had to read this before supper--makes me wanna puke. You say one of the guys is a MEMBER here (Hannam or something?). Geez. Sad thing is people LISTEN and BELIEVE this crap and sock away AK's and grenades to kill people over it. I know its a big problem in Germany too-the rise of Hitlerphiles and Nazi lovers like it was the golden age of the Reichstadt and Germany. 'Course we got the lovely KKK here and Aryan Nation and all those weirdos living up in the NW in survival camps waiting for their time to come. Who says theres no Devil? Find some psycho losers or emotionally abused kids and start a movement. Sheesh. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Chris Green Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:11 PM Erm, just to point out that there's a well-established band based in Birmingham UK called Prussian Blue who have nothing whatsoever to do with the arseholes mentioned in the article. I'm not in the band and don't even know them that well (we were on at a festival with them a few years back), but I'd hate to for them to be confused with a bunch of goose-stepping dickheads! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:38 PM "You say one of the guys is a MEMBER here" Yeah, he is. There are even a few 'catters who speak in a manner that indicates they agree with him. Usually, however, they post under Guest to keep their monikers out of it. Spineless fucks, but then most Nazis and their sympathizers are. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: GUEST,Anonny Mouse Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:47 PM If anyone confused that blues band from the UK with the little blonde Nazi girls of the same name in the U.S. that would be a real shame. Hopefully not. You'd think the U.K. band would sue or something-too bad that takes money, time, and a continent away. The little Nazi girls from the U.S. moved with Mommy (I think to the NW-what IS it with that place) from Cal. after the TV piece was run on them. They got some hate mail and threats etc. Gee wonder why? They apparently appear at county fairs and such and because they're so innocent looking nobody thinks they're getting a Nazi hate duet. They named themselves after their "cute little Aryan looks" supposedly-blue eyed blonde haired etc. Little creeps that will turn into a lot worse. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:49 PM There was a chilling film made in 1995, I think it was, Hearts of Hate which chronicled the rise of neo-nazism among Canada's youth. If I remember correctly Resistance Records was featured with their hate-filled music. On the other hand, there is an encouraging article HERE by a young woman who got out of the orgs. and is now an activist against nazi-hatred. Of course, it is pervasive all over; certainly not only in Canada. kat |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 23 Jan 06 - 06:53 PM We have a few thousand of the assholes in Canada. It's a few thousand too many, IMO. In fact, one is too many. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 24 Jan 06 - 09:48 AM It's really sickening to read this. After the breakdown of the <7>real existing socialism many of the young people pressed into its ideology took the wrong turn and joined the exact opposite ideology of the nazis after the reunification. There are some programs to save or redeem these young people from nazism, and we read of some successes. The unteachables should be shot at sight. In Thuringia these concerts, mostly camouflaged as birthday parties, are now suppressed by the police in full force. Since they went out with insufficient forces at the beginning my friend the minister of justice sees to it that the police does their work hard and fast. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 24 Jan 06 - 09:49 AM correct real existing socialism |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: GUEST,leftie Date: 24 Jan 06 - 06:43 PM Good to see someone in the folk scene taking a strong stance elsewhere in the same edition of the Observer -interesting article too... http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1692175,00.html |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: katlaughing Date: 24 Jan 06 - 07:50 PM thanks, leftie...that is heartening! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: The Badger Date: 24 Jan 06 - 07:52 PM Well done Piers! I'd never heard of them until you gave them another public platform! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: The Badger Date: 24 Jan 06 - 07:54 PM Shouldn't this thread be under BULLSHIT? |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: GUEST,Anonny Mouse Date: 24 Jan 06 - 07:55 PM Not to put too fine a point on this, but the neo-nazis aren't the only such sicko, whacko, violent, anarchistic politically involved group out there-at least in the U.S. Various "churches" (the church of white power, the church of whatever) cloak themselves under the relgion non-profit org. laws etc. to support their hatred; always seems the KKK is around-even up north; Aryan nation (which I spose is neo-nazi), and dozens of supremicist and survivalist "groups", enclaves--CULTS proliferate. Had a kid I knew-teen-acquaintance of my son-got in trouble with the law, did some time in prison; came out with home-made swastica tattoos, shaved head and a total nutjob sociopath. Yeah-"penitentary" and "reform" really straightened him around. Just Google "white power music" and see all the dandy sites you get and CDs you can buy. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: open mike Date: 24 Jan 06 - 08:16 PM i did not think that it was said that he is a member here, but "featuring Mudcat's favourite fascist" although maybe this person is a member here.. we do seem to welcome anyone, and are not apt to be judgemental, restricting, or hateful. lucky us and them. I hope this inspires some of us to use music for speaking truth to power, telling stories of compassion and sharing inspiring songs about time when love succeeds and every one is included, instead of songs about hate, and seperation. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 25 Jan 06 - 12:07 AM "i did not think that it was said that he is a member here" 23 Jan 06 - 06:38 PM |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Piers Date: 25 Jan 06 - 07:06 AM Sorry to invade your cosy world Badger, but I think that it is not allowing them a 'platform', ignoring them and not even trying to understand their racism and totalitarianism that allows their proponents to flourish. In order to counter racist and fascist ideas, we have to know what they are and engage with them. This article highlights just some of the illusions they are under: that of governments controlled by zionists, that of social workers telling people what to think, etc. The article also makes evident that whilst the BNP may no logner have swastikas tattooed on their heads and instead wear suits and ties, the political content of their philosophy is much the same as it ever was. They may not chant about the superiority of the Aryan race and blood and honour, but if they have their way anyone who doesn't stand up, or look like they won't stand up, behind the Butcher's Apron is in for a rough time. I think the point is to argue racism and fascism out of existence. It won't go away if you ignore it. This is because it is not some abstract idea, it is rooted everyday living. Housing, healthcare, basic amenities are harder to come by the less money you have, jobs go to those willing to work for less. Though official racism is long dead, the philosophy of boss, church and state maintains that your self-interest lies within national boundaries, Britain (or wherever you live) comes first - boss and worker, tennant and landlord together united. It is, of course, the old divide and rule strategy. The racists put two and two together and make seven: not enough houses, too many people; not enough jobs, too many people - and that lot over there, with the coloured skin and smelly food, they're not from around here, it must be there fault. Of course, before the migrants arrived there weren't enough houses and jobs, in areas where there are few migrants there aren't enough houses and jobs, but the racists won't see that. For the racist it is nothing to do with the capitalism that everywhere creates scarcity, competition and depends upon setting workers against each other to prevent them uniting against their capitalism. Racism and fascism is the philosophy of desparation, it is to seek false-security in artificially constructed racial, national or cultural groups, its breeding ground is powerlessness, alienation and poverty. I think we need more articles like the one that started this thread and more discourse with, and about, fascists and racists. Flush racist ideas out into the open and pick 'em off one by one. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Paul Burke Date: 25 Jan 06 - 07:16 AM Excellent Piers. I wish I could have put it that well. When Hannam was posting here frequently a few months ago, a lot of people were taken in by his smooth talk. It's difficult to take them on head on- too many people idly buy into that kind of thinking. Example- a while ago, in a supermarket, I was chatting with a nice old lady, about the vegetables on offer. I mentioned that red peppers were half the price at the Asian supermarket, half a mile away. "Oh, I wouldn't go there, we mustn't encourage them", was her response. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Mrs_Annie Date: 25 Jan 06 - 09:39 AM I was reading this article last night, really shocking. This is the bit that I found particularly nasty: "an old folk tune about a Cornish mining disaster has been rewritten by the BNP man to describe a white man falling victim to a race attack" |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: open mike Date: 25 Jan 06 - 02:46 PM what name did he use when he posted? |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 25 Jan 06 - 02:52 PM David Hannam |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: katlaughing Date: 25 Jan 06 - 02:52 PM Well said, Piers. Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: The Badger Date: 25 Jan 06 - 05:19 PM Piers, you are not invading my "cosy little world" simply exposing yours if you think it possible to "argue fascism and racism out of existence". Fanatics of any type do not respond to reasoned argument, a salient feature of fanaticism, but only take the chance to repeat ad nauseum their insidious ideas. The chatteratti enjoy such arguing but since they are already of the same basic opinion it is rather pointless. A study of Political History of the 20Century will quickly inform you of the aims,objectives and doctrines expressed - they are well documented. What you can do is refuse to trade with any business supporting fanatic organisations -BNP, white supremecists,etc. If you find the music in a store, complain to the management, if you hear it on radio or see it on TV, complain to the station involved and get all you friends and contacts to do the same. If someone at work or socially expresses such views, point out that you find them abhorrent and that you will no longer work or associate with them = shun them. If you are asked by another why you have done this then you can explain and hopefully they might feel that they should do the same. It is hard for someone to maintain the arrogance needed to sustain fanatical views if they are being ignored by their peers. In the case of David Hannam - do not reply to his postings - boycott his thread. You could also mention you are going to boycott his music label and complain about any public performance of his work or his groups. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Emma B Date: 25 Jan 06 - 05:33 PM I'm sorry The Badger but I disagree whole heartedly with your suggestion not to reply to postings by David Hannam and the even more insiduous "guest" clones. There is always a chance that someone might just be curious enough to access ome of the sites he has posted links to or decieved by the insiduous lyrics of the "so-called" folk song he posted on 'lyrics add' here some while back. Where I do agree is that such people cannot be reasoned with, but don't you think that to provide the true facts behind some of their more nasty stereotyping and sniping is a valid exercise also, even if only for the benefit of those who are being exposed to only one side of the equation if we follow your advice to boycott such threads? I shall continue to refute such trash - wherever - I come across it! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Sorcha Date: 25 Jan 06 - 05:38 PM I must agree with Emma, but since I am US, I have no personal experience with this man, so I'll stay out of it. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: GUEST Date: 25 Jan 06 - 05:43 PM Well done people. You were warned months ago and still accepted his membership. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Paul Burke Date: 26 Jan 06 - 08:47 AM It doesn't matter about accepting membership. He could always sign up under a different name, or post as GUEST (anonymously or with a name). What troubles me is that a number of members thought he was level when he was posting here regularly, despite many others warning you of that sort of politics. I think some BS filters need adjustment. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: GUEST Date: 26 Jan 06 - 08:59 AM He didnt need to sign in as guest. We posted links to many articles telling others exactly who they were dealing with on this forum. He used his own name and was engaged in jolly banter by some on here after knowing his history. I would imagine his membership would be refused by many more discerning sites. And those who discovered it after the event would ban him. Mudcat welcomed a known nazi with open arms. That is the truth. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: manitas_at_work Date: 26 Jan 06 - 10:27 AM Do we all need to be good socialists to post here then? |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 26 Jan 06 - 10:39 AM I spent months doing my best to drive that asshole nuts. And if he returns, I will do so again. I have no personal experience with him, but then I never met Hitler either, and I think he was an asshole, too. I was disappointed at the time that few Mudcatters expressed their disapproval of him and his transparent postings here. However, I don't blame people. Those kinda people are scary. BTW, you Nazi motherfuckers, eat shit! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 26 Jan 06 - 11:27 AM "Do we all need to be good socialists to post here then?" No, but don't ya think it's a bit much to welcome Nazis? Gee, I want to exchange views with some asshole that thinks killing Jews, Blacks, Asians (et.al.) is a good idea. Friggin' DING! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: manitas_at_work Date: 26 Jan 06 - 11:51 AM I don't remember anyone actually welcoming him anyway but no-one has their arm up your back forcing you to exchange views. He is tolerated, more or less(ok then, less), like any of the other unsavoury characters on here. Mind you, he might not have access to this forum for long anyway. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Mr Happy Date: 26 Jan 06 - 12:06 PM we don't really know for certain that the person posting really was Hannam. after all anyone on here can use any handle, their own name or a nickname. however, noting what his posts express, the likelihood is that it was either him or one of his ilk. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: the one Date: 26 Jan 06 - 12:31 PM well peace,your language like eat s__t & motherf------s makes you sound like a fascist, have respect for the word mother. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Alba Date: 26 Jan 06 - 12:36 PM Sorry Manitas but sad to say Hamman was indeed welcomed by a couple of Folks. Hamman was offered a Gig (legit too) by a Mudcat member and another Member sent his regards to Hamman's Father. He was known already by some and was welcomed to the Mudcat by them. Several people who have been at the end of, let us just say, the rougher end of Hamman's Party's approach at hammering their poltics Home attempted to let the Forum know that discussion with this kind of vermen was pointless. This Nazi is an Nazi, call him a Fascist if you wish but then you can call a Donkey a Race Horse but it will still be a Donkey. This Forum was USED to further the Neo Nazi's commercial cause and Hamman's arguement was he was "just" a Folk musician which was why he was here (all be it with a very different agenda from Musical discussion and his appearance on the Mudcat was a month or so before the UK Elections) The agenda he has, in fact his job is, to supply a "just one of you regular Folks" type of image to their Music and then engage in psuedo Social discourse deflecting the disgust by twisting the truth in the hope of drawing the niave to support their "cause". I pointed out at the time, when Hamman was only posting as a Guest to test the water here, that the Neo Nazi's were pushing to get their Message out there through several diffrent Music sources and through Music Forums like this on the Web! I had been warned by several sources that this was their next move and then...he appeared So..Hamman is, in this case, doing his Job, like a good little stormtrooper, carrying out orders and no doubt got a big salute at the Neo Nazi Festivals last Year for it. Now they have a record label and Hamman is their public white hope PR man. Glad the Mudcat could help in some small way huh! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 26 Jan 06 - 12:43 PM "well peace,your language like eat s__t & motherf------s makes you sound like a fascist" You have a misunderstanding of what Fascism is. And as for those Nazi motherfuckers, they should eat shit and die. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: M.Ted Date: 26 Jan 06 - 01:34 PM My comment: I was glad that David Hannam dropped in, and just as glad that he was challenged, and that the contrast between what he says and what he does were brought out. I have my doubts about those of you who want to shun him or ignore him or insult him-- In Mudcat as in life, we have little choice about the people and situations that we have to deal--our choice comes in the way that we deal with them, though those choices are not often simple or appealing--if you choose not to deal with the things you don't like, it can get you into a lot of trouble. The fact that David Hannam, a prominent, if not notorious, figure in the news and in the streets, should make a point of coming here and making his case is proof that what is said here is important in and important to the outside, offline world--Hope he comes back!! |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Wolfgang Date: 26 Jan 06 - 01:37 PM an old folk tune about a Cornish mining disaster has been rewritten by the BNP man to describe a white man falling victim to a race attack Why should one be surprised about that? The Horst Wessel song of the old Nazis also used an older folk tune. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Piers Date: 26 Jan 06 - 03:11 PM I'm sure the irony of 'anti-fascists' wanting to shun fascists, prevent them having a platform and wanting to make them eat shit is not lost on Hannam et al. Odious and despicable as they are, I still think the fascists should be able to SAY, politically, what they want, as I should be able to say what I want. I've had one-to-one arguments with racists and they are very often unable to defend their ideas, but yet won't budge (there and then at least) - it is like banging your head against a brick wall. However, in this public forum what is an onlooker to think if all they can read is a fascist putting their argument across and being ignored? - that there is truth in what they say? It is not as if it is just card carrying fascists that have racist views, as Paul Burke points out above, its 'nice' old ladies in supermarkets too. I hear racist comments from my work colleagues quite often. Ingrained racism that is actually quite widespread. It's received wisdom, an oral tradition if you like. We have companies outsourcing jobs abroad at a rapid rate and 'we' are fighting 'them' abroad as we speak, there is a long history of church and state racism. It is pointless to think that it will be alright if we just keep the poison in a bottle, it's already in the water supply. What is needed is an antidote. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: stevenrailing Date: 26 Jan 06 - 03:40 PM i heard his father recieved a lot of abuse because of his sons opinions, abuse by mudcatters. i dont think that is right and to be honest its a disgrace. i agreed and disagreed on points hannam, i too am critical of multicultural society, but then i think there is a difference with that and openly, well whatever he is. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Alba Date: 26 Jan 06 - 03:48 PM Bullshit, his father recieved no abuse on this forum. Only his Son did. Unlike the usual abuse dished out by Hannam's Party the abuse here was verbal. Hannam's Father was sent a polite "hello" via his Son here on the Mudcat. So the claim that Hannam's Father got abused by Mudcatters is crap. Hannam being an Nazi was the CAUSE of any supposed abused his father has received. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: frogprince Date: 26 Jan 06 - 03:51 PM It's hard to imagine a bigger waste of time, talk, or psychic energy than "being critical of multicultural society" in the modern world. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 26 Jan 06 - 03:53 PM Second what Alba said. Hannam is a disingenuous British Nationalist (Nazi) Party member. So cut the crap about his dad receiving abuse. There are people on this forum who have been physically 'abused' by those bastards. Shove your racist crap. And if you support those bastards, then f#ck you, too. |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: Peace Date: 26 Jan 06 - 03:54 PM But I mean it in the nicest possible way. (How's that potbelly. After your stern talk I am trying to be nicer.) |
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Subject: RE: Nazi hate-music From: stevenrailing Date: 26 Jan 06 - 04:27 PM yes he has taken abuse. and it shows up human fallibility in all sections of society - online and offline. |
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