Tune Req: Unser Alte Kath (German)

Subject: Seeking info on German tune
From: GUEST,AR
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:08 PM

I've had a fragment of melody, remembered from childhood, going round my head for the past few weeks. My mother tells me that it has lyrics which run... 'Uns're Liebe Kat Kriegt a no a no aan' (a dialect form of German meaning roughly 'Our dear Kat also wants one'). The tune is in 10/8 time. I don't know what dialect of German it is. Does anybody have any further information at all on this?

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 23 Jan 06 - 05:31 PM

You might want to try a website that deals specifically with German folk music. I don't know of one... does anybody else?

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 02:20 AM

We may be the best English-speaking site for such a question. Keep watching this thread, and quite likely you'll get an answer. Any idea what the title might be? I tried a number of variations of "unsere liebe Katz" (our beloved cat).
ingeb.org has some songs listed that sound like they may be close, but no lyrics for those particular ones.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 09:21 AM

Everytime I'm trying to post to the 'cat the system is disturbed by unaccessibility ... Tried for about 5 hours. Let's hope it works now:

The metre of 10/8 is very, very unusual in German folk music. Did you hear right?
The Kat could be Katz, dialect for Katze = cat.
There is a song "Unsre Katz hat Junge" = our cat has kittens (we sang it as young scouts), but the line you mentioned is not in this song.

But Kat could also be part of an abbreviation for the name Katharina = Katherine, Kate. The rest of the line is Bavarian, where the name is Kati or Kathi.
Translation is "our dear Kate will finally get one, too." One here means a lover, a man, a husband. I think this is the right path to seek further.
Not found in ingeb.org nor with Google.

Sorry
Wilfried

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: GUEST,AR
Date: 24 Jan 06 - 10:55 AM

Joe, Wilfried, thanks very much for replying to my request!

"The metre of 10/8 is very, very unusual in German folk music. Did you hear right?"

My grasp of metre is not great, but I'm sure it is either 10/8 or 5/4- certainly not 3/4, 4/4 or even 7/4, for example. The melody as I remember it is quite jaunty with a major/Lydian feel.

My mother (who's from Swabia) believes that 'Kat' is a shortening of 'Katharine', and therefore has no feline associations. Thank you for the Bavarian tip - I'll keep searching...

AR

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: GUEST,another Guest
Date: 25 Jan 06 - 10:00 AM

Yes, I would also like to know if there is a website that deals specifically with German folk music.
I would be very grateful for any tips.

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jan 06 - 10:08 AM

Schwäbisch would be quite a challenge to many Germans - even those from Bayern (Bavaria)! I can't help you this time around. I had also suspected that "Kat" might be diminuitive of "Katrin" or perhaps "Katrina". You are probably going to need to find someone with a greater knowledge of that dialect and area. This post should at least help to keep the thread up, so that someone more knowledgeable will see it. Perhaps you could be more specific about where in Schwaben? The dialect can vary from village to village!

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: GUEST,AR
Date: 25 Jan 06 - 10:44 AM

"Perhaps you could be more specific about where in Schwaben? The dialect can vary from village to village!"

Although my mother is Schwaebisch (from Amstetten nr Geislingen) she identified the piece of music in question as non-Schwaebisch. I think I myself probably heard it on some old vinyl or cassette recording my parents used to have (they were concert promoters in the seventies).

Thanks,

AR

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 08:36 AM

The difficulty in finding this is that the transliteration of dialect can lead to quite different results.

'Kriegt' could also be 'kriagt'
'a no' could also be 'au no'

I've tried some different spellings with no success.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:46 PM

Try the German folksong site: http://ingeb.org/

It is sort of like the DT

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 08:34 PM

Robokopp, a site maintained by Richard Kopp, also has a lot of German songs.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:02 AM

I'm glad to report that in my post of Jan 24, 2006 I was right with my assumption. Today I heard this song in the central Carnival session of Franconia (Franken), a Bavarian province. It was sung by a firemen's band of the Upper Palatine (Oberfranken), another Bavarian province.
They sang in dialect and so fast that I could not understand much. But this is sure: It is about a woman named Kath. The first verse prophesies that she will finally get one, too. The other one tells that she has got one. The chorus I could not understand.
The tune is in a form seldom used outside of Bavaria called Twofold (Zwiefacher) because it consists of two metres. Two bars of three crotchets each are followed by two bars of two crotches each.
I'll try to contact the band (just got their address) and ask them for more information.

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: GUEST,AR
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 11:17 AM

Wilfried,

wow! Thanks for the information. If you find out more, please do let me know!

Al

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 10 Mar 06 - 04:31 AM

Good tidings! I've got the text and the music sheet. I'm on leave for some days and have no access to our FTP-Server, but ass soon as I'm back in my office I'll put it into the net.

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:36 AM

Well, here it is now, after a nervous breakdown of the Cat this morning.
Go to my Signals, Mudcatters, For the Use Of
Sing and enjoy!

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Marje
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM

Hey, thanks for that! I've just been reading this thread and knew straight away the tune you meant. When I lived in Sussex they played it at sessions sometimes, and it was known as Bavarian Stomp. I had heard it was also called Unsere Alte Katze (well, it's not far out)but that's all the information I had, and I don't think I've ever seen it written down. I think it was introduced to the Sussex folk scene by fiddler Nick Pynn.

I still play it at sessions sometimes - it's a good tune to make people sit up when things start to flag a bit.

Marje

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 02:33 AM

Hi Marje! Thank you for the interesting post. Bavarian tunes in Sussex - oh wonder. But good folk knows no borders, as I coulf experience so many times in the MC.
As you have read above, Kat(h) here doesn't stand for cat (Katz), but Kate.

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: GUEST,AR
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 10:29 AM

I have just found somebody on Youtube playing this tune under the title 'Seidener Zwirn' (Silken Twine)... the same title under which it appears on a 1979 album by the German group Linnenzworch.

Subject: RE: Seeking info on German tune-Unsere liebe Kat..
From: Artful Codger
Date: 25 Feb 13 - 05:53 PM

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7a9GzrBFGE

However, the performer has slowed down the notes in the 2/4 measures to twice their usual duration, possibly because the tune was misnotated in his British tunebook. Compare with the following clip, which begins with the same tune in its proper timing:

Stadtkapelle Schongau - Zwiefacher a la Blechschaden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbmZhsdOnT8

And the same Zwiefacher being sung:
Unsre oide Kat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2TZ8Ti8Ma8
Die alte Kath: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-TPJ8HHNf4

Zwiefacher switch between 3/4 (waltz) and 2/4 (pivot) measures according to a pattern particular to each piece--you have to know the tune and its pattern before you begin to dance. The oom-pah or oom-pah-pah nature of the accompaniment is your best guide.

Here's a set of a Zwiefacher clips demonstrating the customary way of switching meters and dancing to them; you can see the interleaving of waltz and fast pivot steps, and how the pattern varies from one dance to the next:
http://www.youtube.com/user/zeifacher
(Yes, the channel's name is "zeifacher" without the W.)

Subject: Lyr Add: BOXHAMERISCH ZWIEFACH / UNSER ALTE KATH
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Mar 13 - 10:34 PM

Lyrics below copied from http://www.stammtischmusik.at/noten/boxhamerisch.htm

That page also has sheet music and chords. Click here for a midi file.


BOXHAMERISCH ZWIEFACH / UNSER ALTE KATH

1. |: Unser alte Kath möcht ah an, ah an,
unser alte Kath möcht ah an Mann. :|
|: Wart nur a bissl, wart nur a bissl, kummt scho, kummt scho,
wart nur a bissl, wart nur a bissl, kummt scho no. :|

2. |: Unser alte Kath hat ah an, ah an,
unser alte Kath hat ah an Mann. :|
|: Hatscht nur a bissl, scheanglt nur a bissl, tuat's scho, tuat's scho,
hatscht nur a bissl, scheanglt nur a bissl, tuat's scho no. :|

3. |: Unsa oida Knecht touts mit ihr, mit ihr,
Unsa oida Knecht der touts probiern. :|
|: Wackl no a bißl, drah di no a bißl, 's werd scho, 's werd scho,
Wackl no a bißl, drah di no a bißl, 's werd scho wern. :|

4. Bumsdadadadada, jetzt wenn i wissat,
Bumsdadadadada, ob d Muatter grad
Bumsdadadadada, heut in da Schüssl
Bumsdadadadada, gnua Knödl hat.
|: Zweng oan und no oan und drei und viere
fangat i s'Essn glei gar net o. :|


There are several YouTube videos under the titles Boxhamerisch Zwiefach or Unser Alte Kath

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unser Alte Kath (German)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 10 Mar 13 - 03:52 PM

This YouTube clip has a set of lyrics in the info section:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tomsz-4LO_I

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Unser Alte Kath (German)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Mar 13 - 03:38 AM

Thanks for the links and info, AR, Artful and Jim. I've enjoyed listening to this unusual song and its relatives on YouTube.