 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Feb 06 - 06:21 PM Well, you know, CarolC is correct - the entire premise of this thread is combative. Anti-semitism could be a worthwhile topic of discussion, but this thread has consisted of name-calling, and the continued adventures of Martin Gibson battling the world. This Forum is open for discussion, not combat. Martin Gibson, this is your last anti-semitism thread. You started several others on the same subject, and they all turned into combat zones. There is very little anti-semitism here at Mudcat. If you wonder why people attack you, it's because you attack them first, call people names, and generally insult everybody here. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Feb 06 - 06:15 PM We are all responders by nature. That's why these threads go on and on over the same old tired ground and never reach a resolution...just like the Arab-Israeli conflict. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 10 Feb 06 - 06:11 PM Considering this, McGrath... Your habit is to pose as a responder, often instigated by a GUEST of one sort or another. Along with the quote you posted, it looks to me like he's insinuating that I have been orchestrating my debates by posting as a GUEST and then responding to myself. I guess he thinks that in the absense of having truth on his side, he can always try to slime me. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:58 PM I give you credit enough to be aware of what you actually write as in a sophisticated controller if not a poser... What does that mean, robomatic? I'm just curious, not being sarky. Are there some typos in there, or is it a case of some arcane terminology that I've not come across before? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:39 PM And by the way, robomatic, I post information (with which you disagree). Your response is personal attacks and snide insinuations. That's because you are trying to defend the indefensible, and personal attacks and snide insinuations are all you've got to work with. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST,AR282 Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:13 PM I think it's true that we think like insects and vice-versa. We might consider ourselves for more complex but I think our motivations and passions are insectoid at the core. All our love and morality and intellect are just outgrowths of this core. Who would deny that insects aren't the most amazingly ingenious little bastards? I was watching this nature show and I saw this segment of some kind of fly or something where the male goes out and gathers sweetgum and rolls it into a ball. Then he carries it while he flies around. When he spots a female, he lands and deposits his treat before her. If she starts eating it, it means she accepts him and he mounts her as she munches and impregnates her. Now that might be just a tad stripped-down from human interaction but it is the same scenario as a man presenting chocolates to a woman. We may not be moutning her while she devours them, but that's pretty much the aim of the entire ritual--it's culmination if you will. We're just insects and reptiles underneath it all. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:12 PM Joe, the whole premise of this thread is combative.
-Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:05 PM I don't care who you are - if I see a combative message from you, I'll delete it. I don't care who said what first. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 10 Feb 06 - 04:45 PM That's bullshit, robomatic. We have been handed a big old steaming load of horse shit with regards to the history of the Middle East. And every time I see someone repeating these lies, I will correct them. Because, as far as I can see, it's not until people stop believing those lies that there will be anything resembling peace in the Middle East, and by extention, for the US as well. The instigators are the ones who spread those lies as justification for their acts of agression. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: number 6 Date: 10 Feb 06 - 04:37 PM L.H. ... if you don't have any constructive points to be said regarding this thread ... then just stay the hell out of it ... o.k. sIx |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Feb 06 - 04:35 PM I just can't get over all the goodwill, good humour, and downright warm and huggy feelings on this forum every day. It's a real treat being here. ;-) Sort of a lesson in healthy human relations, eh? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST Date: 10 Feb 06 - 02:58 PM AIPAC? Another viewpoint. HERE |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: robomatic Date: 10 Feb 06 - 02:40 PM Carol: Your habit is to pose as a responder, often instigated by a GUEST of one sort or another. I give you credit enough to be aware of what you actually write as in a sophisticated controller if not a poser, and you constantly cite the same slanted web sources, therefore I correctly picked on you and not your inciter, as you can find incitement enough off a period of one of MG's rants to run to blue-clicky-land faster than the speed of suck. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:00 AM But we're glad you're here, Art, saying your words. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 09 Feb 06 - 11:50 PM As I've said, it probably ought to be enough for me to say that I disagree profoundly with the no-name person we call MG who might as well be a GUEST. I've laid it all out here several times--while he reacted predictably--telling me what I could stick into various orifices. My disappointment with the Israeli government, which he equates with Hitler, went back to the ill advised incursion into Lebanon some several long years ago--and it has nothing to do with antisemitism of any kind. It was disillusioning, at best, to watch as that government did unto others that which had been done unto them for too long.---- I suspect I was younger then, and relatively naive to political real-time ways of this world. Here and now, as I watch the feet of nations and people I'd once put on pedestals turn ceramic in front of me, I feel incredibly helpless to affect any of the machinations going down around me--except to say a few disillusioned words in a thread or two. Good night------- and good luck! Art Thieme |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Feb 06 - 11:15 PM That cartoon about the damselflies is the best cartoon I've seen yet on the subject. I like the red-winged blackbird's take on things too. (They actually DO think like that. I've had red-winged blackbirds as neighbours, and they are insanely territorial, paraniod, and greedy.) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Once Famous Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:40 PM OK, keep it. It's yours. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Bill D Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:26 PM MINE! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: John P Date: 09 Feb 06 - 09:34 PM Geez, I don't have time to read this whole thread, but I've dipped into it here and there. Why in the world would anyone give the time of day to someone who is so idiotic as to say that disapproval of the political stance of the Israeli government is automatically anti-Semitic? Give me a break! Martin, what about all those Jews in Israel who disagree with the way their govenment acts? Are they all anti-Semitic? Are you willing to say that to their faces? You insult me and lots of other perfectly good people when you say we are anti-Semitic because we think the Israeli government is behaving badly. I am not anti-Semitic. I don't agree with many actions of the Israeli government. If you think those two stances are incompatible, you are guilty of some seriously flawed logic. Please stop shovelling this crap. Oops, here I am giving the time of day to a fool. Maybe I'm the idiot. John Peekstok |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Amos Date: 09 Feb 06 - 07:26 PM ...unlike the rest of us who are???? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: bobad Date: 09 Feb 06 - 07:01 PM Well, he wasn't getting any younger. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Feb 06 - 06:44 PM He went up in a puff of smoke. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST,AR282 Date: 09 Feb 06 - 12:42 PM Is it just me or did Old Guy mysteriously vanish? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 09 Feb 06 - 12:37 PM Out of fairness, I need to correct something in my last post. After looking again at the posts, I can see that the person I was responding to was not the one who brought the subject into the thread. It was brought by someone before him. However, I still am not the one who brought it up, and yet I was the only one who was attacked for it. As usual. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST,AR282 Date: 09 Feb 06 - 12:32 PM >>There have been several provocateurs here, MG for one, starting relatively sane, then a few eggers, of whom GUEST AR282 was prime example, got him on his 'dooty dooty' cycle.<< How would you know since half the posts here under my moniker were not written or posted by me? Oh, because YOU are the one doing it, isn't that so, Marty? Of course, you ARE Marty. And neither of you are Jews. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:45 AM robomatic, your accusaton completely ignores the post that my post was in response to. A bit typical of you, I would say. as it is a constant topic of yours And in almost every case, it is in response to, and for the purpose of correcting, misinformation being spread around by others. But I notice you don't have a problem with the people I am responding to making posts about it. So I was not the one who "brought" that subject into the discussion. I was correcting the factual error of the one who did bring it into the discussion. I notice you didn't attack the person who brought the subject up and to whom I was responding. You ignored that post and only attacked me, because you agree with him and disagree with me. That makes you a hypocrite. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST,Soma Date: 09 Feb 06 - 08:56 AM Today is a beautiful day Snowdrops tassel the tree roots Crocuses golden the lawns Alder catkins in the long shadowed Sun Sing a new years becoming I smile I sigh I'll dance till I die |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Raptor Date: 09 Feb 06 - 08:39 AM Here's a question: Why do you look for the ugliness in the world? One could find hate anywhere.But why look for it, point it out, and validate it? More ugliness was brought out by this thread than I've seen anywhere else on the CAT. Martin you've said yourself that you won't be able to change people's minds so why draw attention to the hate and let it grow? I also read the thread that got delieted but I didn't understand what it meant. Could someone PM me to explain it? ALL Questions asked with all due respect. Raptor |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: robomatic Date: 09 Feb 06 - 08:08 AM (LOL)? you don't sound like you mean it? One ad hominem deserves another! I think your post of 08 Feb 06 - 09:30 PM was a case of a "latent ad hominem attack" as it is a constant topic of yours even if not of the thread you are in. There have been several provocateurs here, MG for one, starting relatively sane, then a few eggers, of whom GUEST AR282 was prime example, got him on his 'dooty dooty' cycle. This is not a challenge anymore, just a tired and somewhat sad display. But the interesting thing is it doesn't disprove Martin's main point. Sharks have remoras, communists and fascists have fellow travelers, why not anti-semites? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Once Famous Date: 09 Feb 06 - 08:00 AM Some might see CaroLC's attacks on Israel as vicious and supportive of terrorists. They are very much in context. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 09 Feb 06 - 02:27 AM with CarolC bringing in her anti-Israel jibes out of context LOL Not only is this a blatant ad hominem attack (with no basis in fact), but it's not even a very good one. I can only imagine how lame your cartoons must be. On second though, I think I'd rather not. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: robomatic Date: 09 Feb 06 - 01:38 AM This is turning into the usual Mudcat free-for-all, but I will say when I see the typical fear mongering of the effects of Jews in media being trotted out, I think there is some appeal to tired and common anti-semitic kneejerk responses precisely because that association has been made time and time again without any kind of logical thread to support it. There is enough Martin-baiting going on to muddy the waters with CarolC bringing in her anti-Israel jibes out of context and so we are returning to unfortunately familiar territory. Think I'll draw me some cartoons... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Once Famous Date: 08 Feb 06 - 11:45 PM Hey Jude. don't be afraid................. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Alba Date: 08 Feb 06 - 11:43 PM Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Jude |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Once Famous Date: 08 Feb 06 - 11:26 PM Yes, that is true to some extent, but not all. Not all support that and the Torah basically forbids it. Gay marriage is not recognized, nor should it be. Reform Jews come in different flavors. Some lean more conservative, others not. The structure is just not that rigid. I appreciate you asking. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Alba Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:44 PM Legit Question for Martin. Can I ask why you seem to be so outspoken in your opposition against gays and lesbians at times on the Mudcat Martin. I ask only because as you know Reform Jews are committed to the full participation of gays and lesbians in synagogue and in society at large. Thanks Jude |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Once Famous Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:35 PM Busted for what, Arne? For being a Jew who is part of URJ? The URJ is by far the largest north American organization and they completely support Israel. So does th AIPAC. Who do you support Arne? What do you stand for? On this forum, you are basically transparent. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:30 PM Peace, that land grab was planned well before the 1967 war. They were even planning it before the 1956 war. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST,AR282 Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:26 PM Tell me it ain't so!!! Marty didn't actually say "Reformed" did he?? Gee, even I know it's "Reform," Marty. No Jew would ever say the former--never. You is busted, son! >>There are no "sects" in Judiasm.<< Aw, not even cuddling? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Peace Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:19 PM And part of the problem there, Art, is that if a gang of Arab countries had NOT tried to over-run Israel in both 1967 and 1972, there would not have been prescedent for the land grabs that have taken place. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Once Famous Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:16 PM There are no "sects" in Judiasm. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Ebbie Date: 08 Feb 06 - 09:13 PM "You surely cannot punish my success Just because my way of life has been so blessed You know the reason you don't have any food or any shoes Is 'cause Jesus loves me more than he loves you." Buddy Tabor, Juneau, Alaska Incidentally, mg, is it still the Reform(ed) sect that you belong to? As you have said several times. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: artbrooks Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:41 PM Personally, I am a Zionist and a philo-semitic. And I generally think that Israel's current policy concerning land grabs in the West Bank sucks. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:36 PM Your point being... (?) We all know that Muslim fundamentalism is a dangerous thing. Being against it, if you're a Canadian or an American or a western European, is like saying you think that Hitler was an evil man and the Nazis were dangerous to the world. Yeah, okay...we all agree on that. Now what? No one in the West is afraid to criticize Muslim extremism. People in the West, however, ARE afraid to openly criticize Israeli policy, because they expect to be singled out as "Anti-Semitic". It's a catch-all demonization term, used to muzzle legitimate criticism. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:32 PM How can we ever expect nations to agree when most of us outside of the nationalites or countries in question can not agree. Sadly it's unlikely that peace will ever come to the Middle East, these nations are wed to fighting. So sad when people who visit this site and attempt to always take the moral high ground on every subject makes such general comments about these nations as he did in another thread. Not all of these people plant bombs. Shame on you Teddy, Shame on you. Subject: RE: BS: Abu Hamza Guilty From: flamenco ted Date: 08 Feb 06 - 11:53 AM Yes Alan, I do have a tendency to dislike people who blow us. Their Nationality though is ireelevant. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Peace Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:27 PM Let's criticize Mohammed instead. All's ya get then is death threats. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: GUEST,AR282 Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:24 PM I get worried when I see "antisemitic" trotted out every time someone criticizes Israel or the Jewish presence in the media. Both are legitimate criticisms. I don't like the culture of fear that surrounds these topics that villifies those who question it. Yes, it CAN signify a hate agenda but it is also a legitimate avenue of discussion. The refusal to discuss it on any level is what fuels the conspiracy rumors. We see the same thing with Bush when he trots out "un-American" every time he gets criticized. It's a dangerous trap to fall for. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:05 PM Well said, Carol. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: CarolC Date: 08 Feb 06 - 04:29 PM Wolfgang, you have to make several assumptions to arrive at that conclusion. First you have to assume that there are only Jews in the "Israel first" lobby. Second, you have to assume that all Jews in the US are represented by the "Israel first" lobby. And also, you have to assume that such a lobby doesn't exist. All three assumptions are incorrect. However, I have noticed that empirical evidence is not something you are particularly concerned about, and that assumptions will suffice for you, so I am not at all surprised by your post. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Anti-semitism From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Feb 06 - 04:17 PM I note you say "and worse", Wolfgang. I think it wouidl need to be worse to qualify. I'd read that quote you gave as referring to the kind of organised lobbying on behalf of Israel which would be likely to involve backing from a much wider range of people than (some) Jews, including, in the American context, the Christian religious right. Political lobbies do exist, and they do wield a lot of influence, which is what lobbying is about. There is a difference between referring to this kind of thing and paranoia about "Jewish conspiracies". For a parallel I do not think it would be fair to brand as being anti-Irish anyone who people refers to the existance of a lobby in America supporting Irish republicanism. Or to define any referance to lobbying on behalf of Palestinians as necessarily indicating a racist antipathy towards that people. I quite accept that this kind of quote can be used by people who in fact do have a racist or a sectarian agenda, and that it is important to stay on guard against that kind of "support". |
