BS: joining the masons

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 04:39 PM

Today's useless information.

The Tolpuddle Martyrs were transported for a number of years for "taking an oath against the king" - that oath being one to unite and fight against the landlords who were starving them and their families with low wages, extortionate rents and uneven distribution of food. The oath was not made in the name of the King and on the pretence that 'who is not for us is against us', they were found guilty of treason and transported to Australia. Someone pointed out that the king (one of the Georges) was a Freemason - and Freemasonry did not mention the monarch either. As the king was guilty of taking an oath against himself, he was in a bit of a pickle. Rather than have himself transported, he had the 'Martyrs' pardoned and several of them made it back home to Dorset.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: number 6
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 02:51 PM

I knew this thread was going to drift to the nonsnense it has.

Oh well.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 02:48 PM

It might also be that witches don't subscribe to dualism ie there is a good god and an evil god in constant combat. Modern witchcraft doesn't need to 'fit into the whole picture of things' as it's in another frame, a picture of things as seen by another artist. Don't fall into the trap of confusing witches or neo-pagans with Satanists. Satanists worship Satan and witches don't even acknowledge his existence.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 02:11 PM

"If all good comes from God and all evil from lucifer..."

Maybe its not that way at all, Guest, Christian.

Maybe all good comes from God and all evil comes from human beings.

It might also be that God has a dual nature and that there is no Lucifer at all.

There are lots of possibilities that cannot be explained by dogma.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 01:02 PM

GUEST who signs off as s & f, you very well illustrate what is so backwards about the Masonic Order. Instead of identifying yourself to all, like Mr. Day did and getting the repect due, your's sets a tone of underhandedness. See you ain't that clever after all!

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,Christian
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM

So Guest witch! If all good comes from God and all evil from lucifer, where does witchcraft stand in the whole picture of things?

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: number 6
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 10:11 AM

"Me, I'd rather belong to the International Order of Mudcatters."

Good one Bobad ... guaranteed good 'ol donnybrook or saloon brawl at every meeting!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,A witch
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 08:42 AM

Lucifer is the intelligents behind it all. He is God ,and is inseperable from God. But beware he is an entity and the God of masonry, the intellectual creativity beyond all non-local thought. Mason is referred to as a "craft" you are inducted into the "craft", but it is witchcraft pure and simple Just look in the dictionary for the term "withcraft"

Well, GUEST,Al Old Pal, I don't need to know anything about freemasonry (and I don't) to know you are talking rubbish. For a start, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that witchcraft has NOTHING to do with Lucifer/the Devil. There is a common misconception that witchcraft is devil worship. Not so. We don't even recognise the devil as an entity - let alone worship him/her/it. In fact, we don't worship entities at all.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: bobad
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 08:28 AM

Me, I'd rather belong to the International Order of Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 05:29 AM

mind you, you need to be careful you don't end up tossed down a crevasse by savage natives like Sean Connery in that film with Michael Caine when they thought he was the reincarnation of Alexander the Great.

If you're thinking of going anywhere where there are savage natives, it's worth careful consideration.

they'll see you and go, hello here's another one......just stand on this bridge mate!

you'd better learn The Minstrel Boy just in case.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: harmony
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 04:42 AM

Masons are harmless. They are also funny. Constumes and all, human beings are primitive still. We place such importance on a chalice, a robe, a colour, etc.

Still, you may as well join the masons as much as any other group.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 04:40 AM

There's more bollocks talked about masonry than perhaps any other organisation. And the more vituperative the language of the opposers, the less clue they seem to have about it.

There are lots of tired old stereotypes which get trotted out time after time by these ignoramuses (ignorami?) and it's a bit frustrating for those who do actually know what it's all about. But believe me, masons have heard all of that tired old stuff countless times before and have only derision for the knockers.

Sure, anyone is entitled to their opinion, but the best opinions are those that bear some relation to what is going on in the real world, rather than just repeating rhetoric that you happened upon because other ignorant people said it before you.

And just to clear up one point - traditionally, outsiders had to ask to join but in the UK a declaration was made some years ago to suggest that masons should take the initiative and encourage suitable people to join.

So, GUEST Undecided, if you were asked to join it was because whoever asked you must have thought you would be suitable for masonry, and it probably suitable for you. Ignore all the crap the outsiders talk about having to scratch backs and so on, and if that is your only reason for hesitation you should probably join. Let us know what you decide.

yours, s & f

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 04:37 AM

I wonder if the Masons are beginning to fade out? In my home town of Peterborough, UK, there was (is!) an odd building that always intrigued me. It is not far from the City centre, on the corner of Lincoln Road and North Street. This building is partly made of brick and partly of stone and quite unlike the other buildings around it. Yet, in spite of its distinctiveness, no-one ever mentioned it or even seemed to acknowledge that it was there - at least not while I was growing up in Peterborough (in the 50s and 60s).
Eventually, someone (I forget who) told me that the building was a Freemasons' Hall. I think that there may be a Masonic set square symbol, up near the eaves, but perhaps I imagined it (?)
I don't get back to P'boro all that often, these days - so imagine my shock, on my last visit, to discover that the world's (at least my world's) most mysterious building had been turned into an Italian Restaurant!

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 04:07 AM

then there was Jack the Ripper....did they find him help to face his considerable psycho sexual problems, no they made him a hit man for Queen Victoria...........

I suppose if you enjoy schlepping around with serial killers and listening to the The Magic Flute or you want to be Chief Constable.........

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 03:50 AM

Well gee Mr Day et al, I did not expect such a bounce!

For the record I support their right to be Masons, but still insist that I have the right to express my opinion, in this case, about the state of decline of Masonism, and it is declining.

Maybe all that posing and such makes people nervous so they don't want to join? Perhaps if the Lodges would offer a free beer night every weekend and folks would simply join up for fun?

But somebody already nailed it down, they can't do that because certain members can't hold their beer - just like Orange Order marches always involve violence.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,student
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 03:48 AM

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/ was forwarded as a site to visit above and I did. Very intresting to actually find out about what is going on in the world but is it all true?

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: frogprince
Date: 05 Feb 06 - 12:00 AM

Somewhere over the years a bogus, macabre alleged oath of the Knights of Columbus was read into the congressional record. Forty years ago a schoolmate got ahold of a nice "Christian" tract which quoted that "oath" to show that the Knights are a heinous, murderous, secret order. It had to be true; it's right there in the congressional record. I would in no way be surprised if the same source that printed that tract also propagated a lot of the psychotic hogwash
about the masons that Sorefingers is so well versed in.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 11:37 PM

Catholics are still not supposed to join the Masons, although I don't know anybody who remembers or understands the reasons why. Freemasonry is no longer mentioned by name in the latest Code of Canon Law (1983), but more recent Catholic Church documents have stated that Catholics are still not supposed to join the Masons. But, since the rule is not well known and its rationale is not easy to understand, a few Catholics join the Masons and nobody seems to mind.

The Knights of Columbus were organized in the U.S. for Catholic men who needed a fraternal organization like the Masons. I always thought of the Knights as Catholic Good Old Boys who drank beer and smoked cigars and watched a lot of sports on TV, and ran the parish bingo games. Do Masons do beer and cigars and TV sports and bingo?

The nuns taught us that we weren't supposed to join the Masons because they were a "secret organization" and had "secret rituals." I went to a Knights of Columbus meeting once because they invited me to speak to them and ask for money from the Cub Scouts. When I got there, the Grand Knight kicked me out because I was not a member, and their meetings were secret. So much for the nuns' theory about secret organizations.

Besides, I never liked cigars.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 10:32 PM

I suppose I'm the only true stonemason here, and my area in the West of Scotland is a strong Masonic region.
Dont know about the US, but here the "brotherhood" is run by well off business people, who recruit brainless oiks from the working classes to do the donkey work. They are supposed to be apolitical, but in reality promote an extreme right wing viewpoint ...dont join if you hold socialist views!!

In Scotland, there is an added more sinister dimension, the Masons being very strongly linked to the Orange Order, another rightwing anti Catholic organisation.
Many Masons are also members of the Orange Order.
Although I am a mason, have lived all my life in this area and am of reasonably good character, I have never been proposed for membership.
I am extremely proud of this fact!!....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 10:32 PM

I think the Masons, Eastern Stars, Rainbow Girls, Jobs daughter, etc. are just a bunch of folks who want to feel like they are part of an exclusive club. Basically, a way for losers to feel important.

What is their purpose? I know they like the circus and they like to drive little cars but those are the big wigs and why do they wear those funny hats? Do they like pretending to be Turks or something? What do the little people do besides carry around those secrets and feel like they are somehow connected to something mysterious and extremely important.

When the Rainbow girls or Jobs Daughters in my school were ready for initiation, they liked to let everyone know but they wouldn't tell us what it was all about. I don't think they actually knew. I figured it was something like a debutante ball for middle class schmucks.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,Richard H
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 09:39 PM

"Join up.

If you don't like what goes on, then quit."

Can you in fact quit?
And what would be the consequences of revealing the "secrets"?

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 09:23 PM

Bibbity bobbity fuckin' boo!

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 07:44 PM

What a load of shite...believe in that shite and you prove you are unable to think for yourself, gullible to a degree of stupidity AND full of fear. Oh, yeah, and you believe everything you read on the Internet. I feel sorry for people like Guest 5:19p. Unfounded, non-researched, lies upon lies of those you fear. It's sad, really sad.

katSRC

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,Al Old Pal
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 06:57 PM

If you want Lucifer as your God, are into sorcery, divination, telepathic communion with other people, entities and even the dead. want to explore the mind over matter alchemical magic (32nd degree) the manipulation of geometrical non-local time and events and are into UFO olgy, fallen angel entities, the new world order, the age of aquarius (world peace) the re-appearance of "the christ" (anti-christ)

Be inducted into a mystery school, and become a part of the great white brotherhood (satanic entities that guide and control human events and people)

here is your group: check out the United Nations at lucistrust.com former lucifer publishing company. and www.maitreya.com. Benjamin Creme etc. Check out Alice bailey writings on Occult meditations channeled through vaious masters in the spirit plain Dhwal Khal, Confusicious, Madame Blatvatsky etc.

As well as the Ascended Masters. the Urantia Book etc. the various rays, points of light and idigo children its all the same thing, and it is very very real.

Of course the ignorant who haven't experienced this will say that the above writing is poppycock. Be I have fisrt hand knowledge having had the 6th sense myself, and having had channeling many of these spirit beings myself through thousand of pages of writings, There was something definite beyond myself, intervening in my mind and into the nature world. It has to deal with the universal mind and the infinite intelligents. it was more vivid than I care to admit.

Lucifer is the intelligents behind it all. He is God ,and is inseperable from God. But beware he is an entity and the God of masonry, the intellectual creativity beyond all non-local thought. Mason is referred to as a "craft" you are inducted into the "craft", but it is witchcraft pure and simple Just look in the dictionary for the term "withcraft" then get Albert Pike's Book: Morals and Dogma and start comparing. then after that. Reach your own conclusion.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 06:14 PM

Secrets are unhealthy. It leads to all kinds of speculation.

When your mind's in the gutter, it's hard to see over the curb, isn't it?

I know lots of Mason's daughters and only one of them had a basic personality flaw. Luckily, we broke up before things got too serious.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Alan Day
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 06:02 PM

Guest,What a load of rubbish !!
Al

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:19 PM

"It is a society WITH secrets, in exactly the same way as any family has its own secrets that are not discussed outside of the family."

When a family has secrets, the secret is often about abuse.

The daughters of Masons are quite often tightly controlled by their fathers and seem to have a basic personality flaw. Could this be the reason?

Secrets are unhealthy. It leads to all kinds of speculation.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Alan Day
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 04:21 PM

You prove my point sorefingers.
You have not got a clue what you are talking about.
Masonary is open to all race and religion and all walks of life .We have young old in our Lodge.
Why not investigate a subject before trying to write about it.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 04:16 PM

Join up.

If you don't like what goes on, then quit.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: number 6
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 04:02 PM

Teribus ... "I have never understood why anyone would want to become a member of a 'secret society'"

maybe they would to 'learn the secrets'

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 01:16 PM

Nicely understated sorefingers. But I bet black Masons will be claimed as I type.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 12:59 PM

Hmmm seems to me that sometimes positions of authority are given to Mason brothers precisely because the individual is as thick as a short plank, and will do as bid!

Some of us, like Mr Jefferson, believe it is the very last thing before senility or stupidity takes over. IOW it shews to me a weak character developed throungh low of failing intelligence; for example, doddering old age - very common to see old foagies with the symbols on their cars!

Often occult practice is mixed with the devils craft in creating such things as familiars and the like with which - usualy old farts - try to control other people.

A sad and retarded thing, in this the information age, where we can without control read about/ see and study whatever we like; moreover, unless the evil craft wishes to descend down to the level of the Chinese and control the Intenet, that trend will grow and their society, secret or otherwise, will wither.

So joining them is like turning off - if your's works and you could usefully still ask a real question, remain among the living. But perhaps, you lately fell foul of some Nigerian scam? or some other con that caused you to doubt your own brain? That's not unusual if you are old. Joining the Masons may make you feel better but it won't save you from con-men, instead you will develop a new outlook on other minorities from your own.

In sort of slangy world, Masons are old farts who are scared to go down town in case some black person should show them to be the senile old farts, basicaly dumber than the dog, that they really are.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 12:39 PM

It has a rather conservative image or is that its substance?

Will the Masons be having a big campaigne to convince us that they are really just rather shy socialists who are secretly working for the redistribution of power and wealth?

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Alan Day
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 08:35 AM

I am interested in the tradition of Masonary.Some of the nicest blokes I have ever met have been Masons.A Society with secrets is not the same as a secret society.The Moustrap still showing after many years has secrets.Would you want to go and see the Moustrap if the killer`s name was put up on a placard outside? Why should joining members be told the full ceremonies prior to the performance it would spoil the ceremony for them.It is in books if they really wanted to know.
I cannot understand why some people from a position of complete ignorance,become an authority on a subject they know nothing about.
If you are interested in tradition and Masonary why not join.If you know nothing about the subject, why make up things which are totally untrue.
Al
ps Good meeting last night.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:29 AM

What confuses me is WHY people feel the need to join a secret society, anyone can do good deeds, anywhere, anytime, so don't give us that crap about not getting any personal benefit.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 05:26 AM

I have never understood why anyone would want to become a member of a 'secret society'

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 04:03 AM

So, a society with secrets complains that we outsiders do not really understand it?

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 04 Feb 06 - 01:15 AM

GUEST, undecided
Although you might have been approached regarding your interest in Freemasonry, the basic tenet is that you must ASK to join.
Masonry in UK is purely a system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols.
It is not a secret society as it is well known that the movement exists. It is a society WITH secrets, in exactly the same way as any family has its own secrets that are not discussed outside of the family.
Much of the criticism from outsiders is due to misunderstanding of the principle that a Mason is bound to serve a friend or Brother in time of need before the interests of non-Masons. However, there is nothing in Masonry which is incompatible with your civil, moral or religious duties. Masonry is a meeting together of people with similar interests, in the same way as a golf or cricket club or any other similar club you would like to name.
Much of the work of Freemasonry is charitable, for which Masons generally give out of their own pockets. They do not usually raise money by donations from the public. Certainly, Freemasons have their own charities which they fully support such as rest homes for elderly Masons and their wives. This is similar to many other bodies such as Trade Unions. Much of the charity donations is given to Churches, Hospitals, medical schools and universities, buying and maintaining hospital equipment such as scanners, and many local activities.
A quick summation of Freemasonry is that it will cost you a lot of money but make you a lot of friends.
Seek and you will find. ASK and you will be given. Knock and it will be opened unto you.
Greeting to other Masons on this site and I wish you well.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 10:39 AM

Speaking from the U.S.: I'm not a mason, and personally have never gotten interested in becoming one. Of the signers of our Declaration of Independence, one or two may not have been masons; it doesn't seem to have done to much harm. My father-in-law, and at least two close friends and a number of our broader circle, are masons. None of those I know at all well are people who need anyone to tell them what they think or what to do; it's just one part of their social lives and their inclination to charitable involvement.
As for Tarheels mystic ability to spot another mason accross the desert wastes...pffffft.(Does it work something like "gaydar?)

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: number 6
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:56 AM

Well said Joe Soap.

Unfortuantely, as is evident in the GUEST's post above, ignorance prevails here in the Mudcat.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 08:52 AM

I think you should join. Then you could rise above that bunch of "lower middle class white men". Maybe even become as special as Gervase.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,Joe Soap
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 07:12 AM

I've been a Freemason for over twenty years in the UK, and like others here have experienced a wide variety of different types. It IS a tenet of the society that members should not seek to exploit their membership for gain and that too has been my experience. But folks do like to deal with like folks whether it's the local Morris team, golf club, Am Dram society where they meet or not.
As has been said above, hman nature is the issue and there is good and bad inn all.
Freemasons in this country DO give vast amounts of money (as well as time) to charities - non-masonic ones and international disaster relief funds too.
For some members it is merely a dining club. For others who take the teachings and allegorical rituals seriously it adds a philosophical and moral dimension which many find lacking in modern life. Others enjoy being on committees and organising events.
For me, one of the best things was typified by the time when I visited another lodge and at the dinner afterwards sat and talked with 4 others...one a High Court Judge, one a window cleaner, one a business executive, one a nurse.
There are few opportunities where one may get to meet people from such diverse backgrounds - and we all benefitted from each other's perspectives on life.
I've also seen younger men transformed over a number of years, growing in confidence as they take on more Masonic work. People who could never have imagined themselves public speaking, organising events and so on.They had clearly grown in confidence, understanding and mutual respect.
I have no hesitation in recommending you join.
Joe Soap

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 06:19 AM

ask yourself, did the masons do Mozart any good?

not one of them got him a gig when he was hard up.

when he was pissed he wrote that bloody tune about the apron that fiddle players are terminally addicted to.

no wonder Salieri did him in.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 03:59 AM

---And I'd share a word, Alan and tarheel----

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Feb 06 - 03:39 AM

Ah Kendall I would join too if I was looking for more votes, and of course I would not keep it too quiet that I had done so.
"Hello Mr Rich possible party donor, let me squeeze the knuckle of your hand!"
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:11 PM

Thomas Jefferson was very involved in the early days of Rosicrucians in America; of course, we call ourselves "walking questions marks" being quite capable of thinking for ourselves.

tarheel, you have got to be the most ultra-conservative and contentious Mason I've ever known of...

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: kendall
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:57 PM

Only a handful of Presidents have not been Masons.

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 07:01 PM

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

Says all there is to say about such things! And to think some people belive the US was founded by Masons! Phaaaaaaatttttt

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 05:02 PM

From the tongue-firmly-crammed-in-cheek department:

The Stonecutter's Song
(from The Simpsons)

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do... We do!

Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do... We do!

Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do... We do!

Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do... We do!

Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons
From: number 6
Date: 02 Feb 06 - 04:51 PM

Oh come on Peace ... you'd look cute in one of those aprons !

sIx