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Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud
Related thread:
Le Roi Renaud (20)
In Mudcat MIDIs:
Le Roi Renaud
Le Roi Renaud (tune variation for verse 20)
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Felipa Date: 23 Feb 21 - 09:08 PM It turns out that there are several Mudcat discussions of Gilardin https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=19223#195912 https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=19223#380929 https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=19223#195814 If any mudcat elves see this (and I think Monique has an editing key?), it would make more sense (to me) to link these threads to the Roi Renaud thread than to a bunch of less related Italian language songs (such as Funiculi funicula). I learned a simple American version of George Collins and I am surprised to read that George Collins may also derive from the Elveskud legend: From the notes to the Penguin Book (1959): "...The plot of George Collins has its secrets. From an examination of a number of variants, the full story becomes clearer. The girl by the stream is a water-fairy. The young man has been in the habit of visiting her. He is about to marry a mortal, and the fairy takes her revenge with a poisoned kiss. The song telling that story is among the great ballads of Europe. Its roots and branches are spread in Scandinavia¹, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and elsewhere. An early literary form is the German poem of the Knight of Staufenberg (c. 1310). France alone has about ninety versions, mostly in the form of the familiar Le Roi Renaud, though here much of the dream-quality of the tale is missing, since the girl by the stream is lost sight of, and instead the hero is mortally wounded in battle. The first half of the George Collins story is told in the ballad called Clerk Colvill (Child 42), the second half in Lady Alice (Child 85). Either these are two separate songs which have been combined to form George Collins or (which seems more likely) they are two fragments of the completer ballad. George Collins has rarely been reported in England, though in the summer of 1906 Dr. G. B. Gardiner collected three separate versions in different Hampshire villages, two of them on the same day. (FSJ vol.III, pp.299-301)" -R.V.W./A.L.L. This version was collected by Dr. Gardiner from Henry Stansbridge of Lyndhurst, Hampshire, in 1906, and was first published in the Folk Song Journal, vol.III, p.301. Another version collected by Gardiner (tune from Henry Blake of Bartley, Hampshire, 1908, with text collated from 5 variants from the Southampton/Lyndhurst area) was published in The Wanton Seed (ed. Frank Purslow, EFDS 1968). ¹ Elveskud, according to Henri Davenson (Le Livre des Chansons, 1955). https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=18313 |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Monique Date: 23 Feb 21 - 06:57 PM I don't know about any discussion but the Piemont version is on the Antiwarsongs.org site with a translation into standard Italian and into English. It's called "Re Gilardin" and the story though shorter is the same. It reads that "King Gilardin is not attributable to a historical person. He is rather a mythical figure, who populates the rich tradition of European ballads. The story of the king, who returns home dying and whose death is hidden, appears in various ballads (e.g. Comte Arnau / Le Roi Renaud) and is possibly of Scandinavian or Breton origin." -from Google translate (it's almost 1am and I don't translate anything so late at night!) On this page of the same site you have a slightly different French version with a translation into Italian and English + a version in Middle Scots that looks like a translation from the French, ditto for a Polish translation. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Felipa Date: 23 Feb 21 - 04:46 PM recording by Ambiance, Quebec on youtube Has anyone found the discussion of the Italian version mentioned by Malcolm Douglas? He said to disregard his link. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Feb 21 - 12:08 PM http://chrsouchon.free.fr/chants/roirenau.htm Some versions at that link. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Ged Fox Date: 19 Oct 16 - 05:03 AM Whose guts? The notes in Henry Davenant's "Le livre des chansons," mentioned above, refer to the Scandinavian ballad "Elverskud" or "Sir Olaf struck down by an Elf" as the source of the tale. Scandinavian version In the Scandinavian ballad (verses 15 & 16 Babelfished) it takes a mere touch, or two, from the elf lady to strike down Sir Olaf. No guts involved on either side. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Ged Fox Date: 18 Oct 16 - 11:59 PM Le Roi Renaud in English |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Mrrzy Date: 18 Oct 16 - 09:34 PM Hmmm, I see I never gave you the Yves Montand version, que voici. No horses, no church. Artist: Yves Montand Album: Chansons populaires de France Le roi Renaud de guerre revint Tenant ses tripes dans ses mains Sa mère est à la tour en haut Qui voit venir son fils Renaud Renaud, Renaud réjouit-toi Ta femme est accouchée d'un roi! Ni de femme ni de mon fils Mon coeur ne peut se réjouir. Je sens la mort qui me poursuit Mais refaites dresser un lit Et faites le dresser ci-bas Que ma femme n'entendes pas. Guère de temps y dormirai A minuit je trépasserai Et quand ce fut vers la minuit Le roi Renaud rendit l'esprit. Il ne fut pas soleil levé Que les valets l'ont enterré Sa femme en entendant le bruit Se mit à gémir dans son lit. Ah dites moi, ma mère m'amie Ce que j'entends cogner ici Ma fille c'est le charpentier Qui racommode l'escalier Ah dites moi, ma mère, m'amie Ce que j'entends chanter ici Ma fille c'est la procession Qui fait le tour de la maison. Ah dites moi, ma mère m'amie Ce que j'entends pleurer Ma fill' c'est la femm' du berger Qui a perdu son nouveau né. Ah dites moi, ma mère m'amie Ce qui vous fait pleurer aussi Ma fille ne puis le cacher Renaud est mort et enterré. Ma mère dites aux fossoyeux Qui creusent la fosse pour deux Et que le trou soit assez grand Pour qu'on y mette aussi l'enfant Terre fend toi, terre ouvre toi Que j'aille rejoindre mon roi Terre fendit, terre s'ouvrit Et la belle rendit l'esprit. Note that nobody has discussed the fact that we aren't sure WHOSE entrails he's carrying, as it was usual to carry your enemies' home but on the other hand he is mortally wounded. I mean, they are his now, but were they always? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Monique Date: 12 Jul 15 - 02:52 AM Many versions (French, 1 Occitan, 1 Basque), notes with English translations on this site. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LE ROI RENARD From: Jim Dixon Date: 11 Jul 15 - 10:50 PM This version is accompanied by extensive notes in French which I have not bothered to copy—because they would be too difficult to proofread. From Romania edited by Paul Meyer & Gaston Paris (Paris: Librairie Emile Bouillon, 1900), page 224ff: 1 Le roi Renaud de guerre vint, Portant ses tripes en sa main. Sa mère étoit sur le créneau, Qui vit venir son fils Renaud. 2 « Renaud, Renaud, réjouis-toi! Ta femme est accouché' d'un roi. » — « Ni de la femme, ni du fils Je ne saurais me réjouir. 3 » Allez, ma mère, allez devant; Faites-moi faire un beau lit blanc: Guère de tems n'y demorrai, A la minuit trépasserai. 4 » Mais faites-l' moi faire ici bas, Que l'accouché' n'entende pas. » Et quand ce vint sur la minuit, Le roi Renaud rendit l'esprit. 5 Il ne fut pas le matin jour, Que les valets ploroient tretous; Il ne fut tems de déjeûner, Que les servantes ont ploré. 6 « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Que plourent nos valets ici ? » — « Ma fille, en baignant nos chevaux, Ont laissé noyer le plus beau. » 7 « Et pourquoi, ma mère m'ami', Pour un cheval plorer ainsi? Quand le roi Renaud reviendra, Plus beaux chevaux amènera. » 8 « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Que plourent nos servantes ci? » — « Ma fille, en lavant nos linceuls, Ont laissé aller le plus neuf. » 9 — « Et pourquoi, ma mère m'ami', Pour un linceul plorer ainsi? Quand le roi Renaud reviendra, Plus beaux linceuls achètera. » . 10 — « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Pourquoi j'entens cogner ici ? » — « Ma fill', ce sont les charpentiers Qui raccommodent le planchier. » 11 — « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Pourquoi les seins sonnent ici ? » — « Ma fill', c'est la procession Qui sort pour les Rogations. » 12 — « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Que chantent les prêtres ici ? » — « Ma fill', c'est la procession Qui fait le tour de la maison. » 13 Or, quand ce fut pour relever, A la messe el voulut aller; Or, quand ce fut passé huit jours, El voulut faire ses atours: 14 « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Quel habit prendrai-je aujourd'hui ? » — « Prenez le vert, prenez le gris, Prenez le noir, pour mieux choisir. » 15 — « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Ce que ce noir-là signifi' ? » — « Femme qui relève d'enfant, Le noir lui est bien plus séant. » 16 Mais quand el fut emmi les champs, Trois pàtoureaux alloient disant: « Voilà la femme du seignour Que l'on enterra l'autre jour. » 17 « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Que dient ces pâtoureaux ici ? » — « Ils nous dient d'avancer le pas, Ou que la messe n'aurons pas. » 18 Quand el fut dans l'église entré', Le cierge on lui a présenté; Aperçut, en s'agenouillant, La terre fraîche sous son banc: 19 « Dites-moi, ma mère m'ami', Pourquoi la terre est rafraîchi' ? — « Ma fill', ne l'vous puis plus celer, Renaud est mort et enterré. » 20 — « Puisque le roi Renaud est mort, Voici les clés de mon trésor. Prenez mes bagues et joyaux, Nourrissez bien le fils Renaud. » 21 « Terre, ouvre-toi, terre, fens-toi, Que j'aille avec Renaud mon roi! » Terre s'ouvrit, terre fendit, Et si fut la belle englouti'. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Speedwell Date: 09 Jul 15 - 11:52 AM Thanx to everyone for information on this brilliant song which I first heard by Bensusan when living in France in the late 70s. I suspect it is not sung so much because of its length. If you haven't heard Bensusan's version I'd recommend it. Could well put a shorter version together to sing with the band. Thanx again. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Monique Date: 30 Jun 15 - 07:47 PM It's fine but for "shrouds". As Malcom said on his 11 Apr 00 - 02:38 PM post, the original meaning of "linceul" was linen bedsheet (Cf. Fr. dictionary "Remarque: 1- Régnier l'a employé dans le sens ancien (older meaning), à savoir drap de lit (bedsheet)..." + etymology at the very bottom of the page. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: GUEST Date: 30 Jun 15 - 07:16 PM Found this translation if any good Our king Renaud came back from war From his guts streamed floods of gore His mother on the castle wall Saw her son approach the hall - Renaud, Renaud, be merry and gay A son to you is born this day - T' is not my son, T' is not my wife Who would give to me, back my life Go mother mine, go on ahead And make for me a fine white bed There shall I not stay too long For at midnight I'll be gone But make it here down below The mother must hear nothing now The midnight hour had struck almost King Renaud gave up the ghost No sooner had the new day dawned Than all the servants cried and moaned No sooner could they break their fast than all the maids wept to the last - But tell me Oh sweet Mother mine Why do our servants weep and pine ? - Daughter mine, bathing our steeds They let the finest drown in the reeds - But why Oh why, sweet Mother mine Why do our maids so weep and pine ? - Daughter mine, when our shrouds were being washed The newest of them all they lost - But why Oh why, sweet Mother mine For a shroud thus weep and pine ? When Renaud returns from war, We'll make the finest shroud you ever saw But tell me Oh sweet Mother mine What is this chant of priests so fine ? - Daughter mine, it is the procession going around our mansion When it was time for her to leave her bed I'll go to mass , so she said And as the midday sun shone fair, She had to choose what clothes to wear Tell me Oh sweet Mother dear In which dress should I appear - Put on the green, put on the grey But its black that's best today But tell me Oh sweet Mother mine What is black supposed to mean ? - For the woman who from childed rises, Black is the best of all disguises When she in the church had entered A candle was to her presented Kneeling down came into view New-turned earth beneath the pew But tell me Oh sweet Mother dear Why is the earth all strirred up here ? - Daughter mine, I cannot hide it My son Renaud is dead and burried Renaud, Renaud, who I had wed So you have gone to join the dead. Divine Renaud, who once I wed So you have gone to join the dead Since our King Renaud is dead Take these keys and for my treasure head Take my rings, take every one Take good care of Renaud's son Earth open up, earth open wide Let Renaud reclaim his bride. The earth did open wonderous wide the damsel disappeared inside |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Monique Date: 30 Jun 15 - 06:58 PM No. The most precise one says "he's carrying his bowels in his hands, his stomach in his hat and his heart is covered by his coat" but none tells how it happened . There's an interesting collection of France versions + one from Switzerland and one from Quebec here with a midi for each. The non-French versions have been literally translated into French and just a couple of lines are in the original language. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Steve Gardham Date: 30 Jun 15 - 03:21 PM I am interested in the origins of the related English language ballads, 'Clerk Colvill, Giles Collins, Lady Alice'. Do any of the French versions mention how Renaud was wounded? The nearest European versions to the English appear to be the Breton 'Aotrou Nann hag ar Gorrigan'. So far the only versions that have some sort of water nymph putting the curse on the knight/king are Breton and British. Are there any others? According to Alfhild Forslin who conducted a Europewide study of versions the ballad can be split into 2 sub-divisions, The west Scandinavian, and the west Europe. She states it is by no means certain which of the 2 areas' versions came first. We always tend to assume the Scandinavian takes precedence because their collecting activities are earlier, but this doesn't mean that's where the story originated. Breton ballads can also be quite early. See the current thread on 'George Collins'. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Monique Date: 11 Aug 14 - 01:48 AM Some to choose from. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: GUEST,EJK-music Date: 10 Aug 14 - 11:37 PM Hello everyone, I am researching a piece that actually incorporated this folksong into an instrumental work. However, I am trying to find sheet music for the Jean Renaud/ Le Roi Renaud folksong, can anyone help me? Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: GUEST,Big Roly Date: 24 Sep 11 - 07:40 AM Now those what I call gutsy lyrics! Breandán Breathnach once stated that folksongs don't jump from one language to another... He was so wrong there, as this thread proves. (Of course he might have been referring to the huge dissimilarity between the English and Gaelic approaches to prosody and narrative - but that's a subject for another thread.) While I'm about it I shall also flag up the close relationship between "Derrière chez nous il y avait un capitaine" and "Bold William Taylor". One of my interests is tracing what remains of French-language folksongs from the British Channel Islands. Rather mysteriously Marius Barbeau collected a version of "Le roi Renaud" ("Le roi Louis" in this case) from an immigrant from Jersey, and the sound recording still exists in the Canadian Museum of Civilization - but I'm on the wrong side of the Pond to consult it! I shall be delighted if anyone from Quebec could send me the words/tune of this version r.p.scales"AT"gmail"DOT"com Titre Jean Renaud [enregistrements sonores] Éditeur / Date 1922 Description 1 chanson 14 vers Participant / Interprète Brotherton, Mme Alex, 69 ans Remarques Apprise de sa mère, Suzanne Duguay. Note d'index II.A-1.56 Provenance Fonds Marius Barbeau. Groupe culturel Français Lieu de recherche Gascons, Bonaventure, Québec Discipline Folklore Autres titres Bonne nouvelle, grand roi Louis, ta femme est accouchée d'un fils Renaud (Jean) Renaud (Louis) No. de contrôle B-Aw-430.2 Ancien no. MN 3522 Autre no. II.A-1.56 Cote MCC/CMC ARCHIVES : AUDIO X/F/50 MCC/CMC ARCHIVES : Fonds Marius Barbeau FOLKFRAN Boite B137/1 |
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Subject: Lyr. Add: Renaud (John), Fr, Can., English trans. From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Feb 11 - 04:01 PM Lyr. Add: Renaud (John), French Canadian Translation Marius Barbeau 1 A mother standing at the door Saw her son coming from afar. "O welcome home, my dearest John Your wife has borne a little son." 2 "Nor for my wife, nor for my child My heart is filled with joyous pride. My words are stifled in my throat, My wounds are hidden in my coat." 3 "Go, mother dear, now take a sheet, Prepare my bed all white and neat. All neat and white my bed must be, Only my wife must not see me." 4 When midnight came with dreary toll, The gallant John gave up his soul. The servants all began to weep, The neighbours wakened from their sleep. 5 "O mother dear, now tell me why The servants all so loudly cry?" "All for a platter which they lost, A platter that much gold has cost." 6 "For golden plates tears are not shed; Tell them to dry their tears instead. When my dear John comes from afar, Our golden plate he shall restore." 7 "O mother dear, now tell me why The hostlers all so sadly sigh?" "Their horses by the lake they groomed When suddenly a mare was drowned." 8 "All for a mare that drowned so deep, O mother must the hostlers weep? When my dear John comes from afar, He shall bring them a goodly mare." 9 Spoken O when the dawn had risen clear, They drove the nails into the bier. 10 Singing "Now mother dear, O tell me, pray, Why do they drive in nails to-day?" "Because you bore a little heir, Tapestries clothe these walls so bare." 11 When Sunday came, they ready made To join the joyful church parade. She donned a robe of crimson red, But they gave her black garb instead. 12 "O mother dear, now tell me true, Why is my gown of darkest hue?" "White is the gown of the young bride, But dark for her, who bore child." 13 As they were walking on their way, They heard some passing pilgrims say: "'Tis meet a widow should wear gown Of mourning hue for her lost one." 14 "O dearest mother, tell me, pray, What do the passing pilgrims say?" "My chld, the pilgrims say that you Are dight in garb of fitting hue." 15 Within the church at last she stands, A lighted taper in her hands. "I hear the bells with mournful toll, They ring for a departed soul." 16 "I see a tomb, O mother dear, More beautiful than any here." "My child, I can no longer hide The secret: Your dear John has died." 17 "My husband dead! Now let me die And then beside him let me lie. O mother dear, return you home, And cherish well my little one!" Marius Barbeau, Folk-Songs of Old Quebec Citation above. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Feb 11 - 12:10 PM Documented tunes for Renaud seem to be 19th C., but of course are probably older.See Malcolm Douglas post about similarity to Gregorian melody, Ave Maris Stella. The story has a long history; more than one tune has been used. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Jack Campin Date: 25 Feb 11 - 06:47 PM The tune is almost the same as "Lay the Bent to the Bonny Broom". Any explanation of how that came to use a liturgical tune? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Feb 11 - 06:44 PM Correction to notes: De la Villemarqué published in Barzaz Breiz in 1839. Denmark! not Denkark. Verse 14, line 1--Ah! dites-moi, m&$232;re m'amie, |
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Subject: Lyr Add: RENAUD (French Canadian) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Feb 11 - 06:34 PM Lyr. Add: Renaud French Canadian 1 La mère étant sur les carreaux A vu venir son fils Renaud; -Mon fils Renaud, mon fils chéri, Ta femme est accouchée d'un fils. 2 -Ni de ma femm', ni de mon fils Je n'ai le coeur réjoui. Je tiens mes trip's et mes boyaux Par devant moi, dans mon manteau. 3 Ma bonne mère, entrez devant Faites-moi faire un beau lit blanc. Qu'il soit bien fait de point en point, Et que ma femm' n'en sache rien. 4 Mais quand ce vint sur la minuit, Le beau Renaud rendit l'esprit. Les servant's s'en vont pleurant, Et les valets en soupirant. 5 -Ah! dites-moi, ma mère ô grand, Qu'ont les servan't à pleurer tant? -C'est la vaissell' qu'ell's ont lavé, Un beau plat d'or ont égaré. 6 -Pour un plat d'or qu'est égaré, A quoi sert-il de tant pleurer? Quand Renaud de guerr' viendra Un beau plat d'or rapportera. 7 -Ah! dites-moi, ma mère ô grand! Qu'ont les valets à soupirer? -C'est leurs chevaux qu'ils ont baignés; Un beau cheval ils sont noyé. 8 -Pour un cheval qu'ils ont noyé, Ma mère, faut-il tant soupirer? Quand renaud de guerr' viendra. Un beau cheval ramènera. 9 (Parle Quand le matin fut arrivé, La bière il a fallu clouer. 10 Chanté -Ah! dites-moi, mère m'amie Ce que j'entends cogner ainsi? -C'est le petit dauphin qu'est né; La tapisserie leur faut clouer. 11 Le dimanche étant arrivé, A l'eglise il lui faut aller. Le roue elle devait porter, Mais le noir lui fut presenté. 12 -Ah! dites-moi, mère m'amie, Pourquoi changez-vous mes habits? -A toute femm' qu'élève enfant Le noir est toujours plus séant. 13 En passant par le grand chemin Ont fait rencontr' de pélerins: -Vrai Dieu, voilà de beaux habits Pour une femme sans mari. 14 -Ah! dites-moi, mèMa Mère m'amie, Ce que les p'tits passants ont dit? -Ma fill', les passant ont dit Que vous aviez de beaux habits. 15 A l'eglise est arrivé; Un cierge lui ont présenté. -Sont les cloch's que j'etends sonner; Le coup de mort ell's ont donné. 16 Ma mèr', voici un tombeau, Jamais n'en ai vu de si beau. -Ma fill', ne puis vous le cacher, Le beau Renaud a trépassé. 17 Vrai Dieu, puisque c'est mon mari, Je veux m'en aller avec lui. Ma mèr', retournez au chateau, Prenez soin du petit nouveau. With musical score. Marius Barbeau, 1964, Folk-Songs of Old Quebec, 2nd ed., National Museum of Canada,Anthropological Series No. 16, Queens Printer. Discussion: "After its obscure birth in Scandinavia, at the end of the Middle Ages, it spread to the northern coasts, landed in Brittany and Germany, and then passed to all of France. From there, it leaped the frontiers into Italy and Spain."... It is deeply rooted on the lower Saint Lawrence and in Acadia." De la Villemarqué published a Breton fragment in his Barzaz in 1839. Many versions have been collected since. Doncieux compiled these data in an impressive monograph, in his Romancéro (VII. 84-124). He derives his final text from 59 versions from France and 8 from Piedmont, and he mentions that it was sung in Paris when Henry IV entered it in 1594; also in Brittany in the second third of the 16th C. By 1960, some 226 versions had been collected. "The Scandinavian song is said to have originated in Denkark, where it was first recorded in writing, before the middle of the 16th C." I will post the English translation later. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Feb 11 - 01:20 PM David Kilpatrick, 1999, has translated "Le Roi Renaud" into Scots vernacular. http"//www.pierrebensusan.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=115 The first verse: Hame frae war Roy Reynauld came A deith-wound tae his wame. His mother in the windae high Wis first tae see him draw nigh. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Monique Date: 24 Feb 11 - 05:11 AM Le roi Renaud in the Voice of the People set is on Dec. 23rd 10 - 8:52AM Occitan versions: the one I posted on April 08 is from Montauban in Western France (btw it shouldn't be "aqueth" which is Gascon) I also found this pdf document where you can find (pages 6 to 9) the Montauban version above, a Lemosi/Limousin version collected in 1862 and a Catalan version that stops at the death of the warrior, with a French translation. In the comments you can read "Though it (the Oc version) seems old we couldn't find any in a manuscript or in print previous to the 19th c". |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LA MORT DU ROI RENAUD From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 23 Feb 11 - 08:16 PM Lyr. Add: LA MORT DU ROI RENAUD Maud Karpeles; lyrics. 1 Le Roi Renaud de guerre vint; Tient ses entrailles en sa main. Sa mère était sur les créneaux, Qui vit venir son fils Renaud. 2 Renaud, Renaud, réjouis-toi! Ta femme est accouché d'un roi, Ni de ma femm', ni de mon fils, Je ne saurais me réjouir. 3 Faites-moi vite un beau lit blanc: Je n'y coucherais pas longtemps. Et quand ce fut sur la minuit, Le roi Renaud rendit l'esprit. 4 Ah! dites-moi, mère, m'amie, Qu'est c'que j'entends cogner ici! Ma fille, c'est le charpentier Qui raccommode nos greniers. 5 Ah! dires-moi, mère, m'amie Qu'est c'que j'entends chanter ici? Ma fille, c'est la procession Qui fait le tour de la maison. 6 Ah! dires-moi, mère, m'amie. Que! habit prendrai-je aujourd'hui? Prenez le blanc, prenez le gris, Prenez le noir pour mieux choisir. 7 Quand à l'église elle est allée, Trois pastoureaux a rencontré. Voici la femme du Seignour Que l'on enterra l'autre jour. 8 Ah! dites-moi, mèmr, m'amie, Qu'est c'que ces pastoureaux ont dit? Ils ont dit d'avancer le pas, Ou que la mess' nous n'aurions pas. 9 Ah! dites-moi, mère, m'amie, Pourquoi la terre est rafraichie? Ma fill', ne puis vous le céler, Renaud est mort et enterré. 10 Renaud, Renaud, mon réconfort, Te voilà donc au rang des morts! Divin Renaud, mon réconfort, Te voilà donc au rang des morts! 11 Terre, ouvre-toi! Terre, fends-toi, Que j'aille avec Renaud, mon Roi! Terre s'ouvrit, terre fendit, Et la belle rendit l'esprit. See above for citation. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE DEATH OF KING RENAUD (trans. Karpeles From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 23 Feb 11 - 06:16 PM No one has posted a translation in poetic English. Maud Karpeles included La Mort du Roi Renaud (The Death of King Renaud), reduced to eleven verses, in her Folk Songs of Europe. (The originals speak of wounds to his tripes, or entrails; Karpeles changes this to "Sick unto death, wounded full sore). The Death of King Renaud M. K. (Maud Karpeles) translation. 1 Renaud, the King, came home from war, Sick unto death, wounded full sore. His mother from battlements high Saw her dear son as he drew nigh. 2 Renaud, rejoice, bright is the morn, Your wife to you a son has borne. Neither for wife, neither for son, Can I rejoice, my day is done. 3 Go make my bed, spread a white sheet; Here let me rest, here let me sleep. As midnight chimed, on the last stroke, The King Renaud gave up the ghost. 4 Come tell to me, my mother dear, What hammering is it I hear? The carpenter, my daughter dear, Mending the barn, that's what you hear. 5 Come tell to me, my mother dear, What is that chant that I can hear? It is the monks, they sing and pray As round the house they wend their way. 6 Come tell to me, my mother dear, Choose me the dress I am to wear. Put on the white, put on the grey, Put on the black, that's best today. 7 As to the church she made her way, Three shepherd lads passing did say: There is the wife of King Renaud Who in his grave now lies so low. 8 Come tell me, mother, I pray What those three lads passing did say? They said we must quicken our pace, Or for the Mass we shall be late. 9 Tell me, I pray, but one thing more, Why is the earth newly turned o'er? The truth I can no longer hide, Renaud is dead, here he does lie. 10 Renaud, Renaud, if this be true, How can I live parted from you? Renaud, Renaud, now you are dead, Comfort and joy from me have fled. 11 Earth, open quick that I may go To my dear king, to my Renaud. Lo, the deep grave it opened wide; Renaud's dear wife cried out and died. Maud Karpeles, ed., Folk Songs of Europe, pp. 120-121, with musical score. Novello & Co. Ltd. The French lyrics probably also re-composed by Maud Karpeles from the French originals. (French lyrics to be posted later.) Compare with the version posted by Monique, from thread "The French 'Voice of the people set," thread 130522. Voice of the People set |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Artful Codger Date: 04 May 10 - 05:33 AM The Pierre Bensoussan version is on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3NvqcNwqD0 (misattributed there to Malicorne) Also on YouTube is a recording by Cora Vaucaire (1937?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kLKnwptvb8 ), with historical notes on the song. In 1865, the Compte de Puymaigre printed a version of this song in Chants populaires: recueillis dans le pays Messin, Volume 1; he had included it in an earlier collection (1862) as well. Chants populaires was reprinted in an expanded edition in 1881, with additional notes on the songs. All three of these books may be viewed at Google Books, though I'll only provide a link to the relevant pages (39-46) of the second edition. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: ChS Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:47 PM Thanks a lot to both of you! In fact the tune is identical with the midi file (version 1) already contributed (see above). And it is, as already stated on this thread, derived from the ancient hymn "Ave Maris Stella" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Joe Offer Date: 30 Apr 08 - 01:27 PM Monique sent me a MIDI for "Lo Comte Arnaud": Click to play |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: Monique Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:31 AM I don't know how old is the text. From the state of language, it's not thaaaaaaaat old, I mean it doesn't go back to the troubadours! My book says it's a theme of Scandinavian origin and that it's the theme of "the return of the dying knight" of the popular literature of Germanic Flanders and Ile de France. It'd have reached us (Occitans) by Brittany and Aquitaine harbors. It also says that this one is the version from Quercy i.e. Cahors area (good wine there!). It's been recorded by Rosina de Peira e Martina (her daughter) in 1979 in "Cançons de femnas" (Songs of women), it's how I knew it. The tune is totally different. It's 6/8, each measure being: dotted quarter and three eighth: - E E E A E B B G C C C D(up) C C B A(undotted + eighth rest) D D D A A A D F A G Bflat A G F E D
Click to play |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: ChS Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:54 AM Fantastic, Monique! How old, approximatively, is this text? Is the tune to it the same as for "Le Roi Renaud"? This Occitan song, with the word "Piemont" in the 1st verse, could be the "Italian" song mentioned by Malcolm (on 11/04/00). |
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Subject: ADD Version: Lo comte Arnaud From: Monique Date: 29 Apr 08 - 04:07 PM This song went down to Southern France. We have our Occitan version of it and King Renaud is Earl Arnaud for us. It goes
Click to play |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Le Roi Renaud From: GUEST,Chs Date: 29 Apr 08 - 01:33 PM Here is a link to the Breton lament "An Aotrou Nann" that may have inspired "Le Roi Renaud" (unless it went the other way round...): http://chrsouchon.free.fr/barzaze.htm then click on the third link from top of the list: "Sir Nann". The thumbnail Breton flag is a clickable link to the Breton text of the song. |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: GUEST,France Date: 15 Jan 08 - 09:56 AM Sorry, i speak (write 'en l'occurence') only in french : Bonjour à tous. Vous trouverez une magnifique version du "Roi renaud" ici : Catalogue Alpha Bonne Année à tous |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 19 May 07 - 02:48 AM I don't think anyone has mentioned it here, but the Tabor/Simpson version surely came from the Pierre Bensusan's recording. |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 18 May 07 - 09:12 PM Are you quite sure you've posted that link in the right thread? |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: katlaughing Date: 18 May 07 - 08:56 PM Maybe at This Website? (Sorry, I don't read French well.) |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LE ROI RENAUD From: GUEST,Marcel Date: 20 Jan 07 - 08:34 AM 7 years late in on this one but I too was looking for the lyrics to the Tabor/Simpson version of the song and came across this thread Using Malcolm's version of the words as a prompt I have transcribed the following (hopefully correct set of lyrics) from listening to the song. There are 18 verses in this version, 4 fewer than Malcolm's but the remainder follow the same sequence and tell the same story. Le roi Renaud de guerre revint, Tenant ses tripes entre ses mains Sa mère était sur le creneau Qui vit venir son fils Renaud 'Renaud, Renaud, réjouis-toi! Ta femme est accouchée d'un roi.' 'Ni de ma femme, ni de mon fils Je ne saurais me réjouir. Allez ma mère, portez devant. Faites-moi faire un beau lit blanc. Guère de temps m'y resterai, A la mie nuit trépasserai. Mais faites-le moi faire ici bas, Que l'accouchée n'entende pas.' Or, quand ce vint sur la mie nuit Le roi Renaud rendit l'esprit. Il ne fut guère le matin jour Que les valets ont pleuré tous; Il ne fut temps de déjeuner Que les servantes ont pleuré. 'Et, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Que le valets pleurent ici?' 'Ma fille, en baignant les chevaux, Ont laissé noyer le plus beau.' 'Et, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Pour un cheval pleurer ainsi? Quand Renaud reviendra Plus beaux chevaux ramenera. Mais dites-moi, mère m'amie Que les servantes pleurent ici?' 'Ma fille, en lavant nos linceuls, Ont laissé aller le plus neuf.' 'Mais dites-moi, mère m'amie, Pourquoi un linceul pleurer ainsi? Quand Renaud reviendra, Plus beaux linceuls on brodera. Mais dites-moi, mère m'amie, Que le prêtres chantent ici?' 'Ma fille, c'est la procession Qui fait le tour de la maison.' Or, quand ce vint pour relever, A la messe elle voulut aller; Or, quand arrive l'heure midi Elle voulut faire ses habits 'Et, dites-moi mère m'amie, Quels habits prendrai-je aujourd'hui?' 'Prenez le vert, prenez le gris, Prenex le noir pour mieux choisir.' 'Et, dites-moi, mère m'amie Qu'est-ce que ce noir-là signifie?' 'Femme qui relève d'enfant, Le noir lui est plus bien séant.' Quand elle fut dans l'église entrée, Un cierge on lui a présenté. Aperçut, en s'agenouillant, La terre fraîche sous son banc; 'Et, dites-moi, mére m'amie, Pourquoi la terre est rafraîchie?' Ma fille, ne puis plus le cacher Renaud est mort et enterré.' 'Renaud, Renaud, mon réconfort, Te voilà donc au rang des morts; Divin Renaud, mon réconfort, Te voilà donc au rang des morts! Puisque le roi Renaud est mort, Prenez les clefs de mon trésor; Prenez mes bagues et mes joyaux, Prenez bien soin du fils Renaud Terre, ouvres-toi, Terre, fends-toi, Que j'aille avec Renaud mon roi!' Terre s'ouvrit, terre fendit, Et si fut la belle engloutie. Malcolm is correct that ''linceul'' does not mean 'shroud' in this case but in this version of the song I think it is more precisely embroidered bedspread. The use of 'la mie nuit' instead of 'le minuit' for midnight may date the song to pre-Seventeenth Century when the change in gender for this word is understood to have taken place. No certainty though as the construction is occasionally used much later in poetry and literary texts. |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 12 Apr 00 - 06:57 PM Thanks for the links-- I looked before, It wasn't there Causing me a great despair What once was lost Has now been found And I'm enamoured With the sound Sorry, but the melody is irresistable!!!!!!1 |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: Alan of Australia Date: 11 Apr 00 - 09:06 PM G'day, Thanks to Malcolm the tune for "Le Roi Renaud" can be found here at the Mudcat MIDI site. The variation for verse 20 can be found here.
Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: GUEST,mrrzy-at-work Date: 11 Apr 00 - 04:51 PM Also on Chansons Populaires de France by Yves Montand. Has very similar lyrics to those above; if you want, I'll add in that version too... |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 11 Apr 00 - 02:51 PM Please ignore that link,which goes to the wrong place. I can't remember what the thread was called; anyone? Malcolm |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LE ROI RENAUD From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 11 Apr 00 - 02:38 PM I came across this thread some time ago, but have only just now got around to checking my translation. No guarantees that it's the version originally asked for, but it's a fairly full one: ^^ LE ROI RENAUD Le roi Renaud de guerre revint, Portant ses tripes en sa main. Sa mère était sur le creneau Qui vit venir son fils Renaud: "Renaud, Renaud, réjouis-toi! Ta femme est accouchée d'un roi." "Ni de ma femme, ni de mon fils Je ne saurais me réjouir. Allez ma mère, allez devant; Faites-moi faire un beau lit blanc: Guère de temps n'y resterai, A la minuit trépasserai. Mais faites-le moi faire ici bas, Que l'accouchée n'entende pas." Et quand ce vint sur la minuit Le roi Renaud rendit l'esprit. Il ne fut pas le matin jour Que les valets pleuraient tretous; Il ne fut temps de déjeuner Que les servantes ont pleuré. "Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Que pleurent nos valets ici?" "Ma fille, en baignant nos cheveux, Ont laissé noyer le plus beau." "Et pourquoi, mère m'amie, Pour un cheval pleurer ainsi? Quand le roi Renaud reviendra, Plus beaux chevaux amènera. "Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Que pleurent nos servantes-ci?" "Ma fille, en lavant nos linceuls, Ont laissé aller le plus neuf." "Et pourquoi, mère m'amie, Pour un linceul pleurer ainsi? Quand le roi Renaud reviendra, Plus beaux linceuls achètera. Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Qu'est-ce que j'entends cogner ainsi?" "Ma fille, ce sont les charpentiers Qui raccommodent le plancher." Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Qu'est-ce que j'entends sonner ici?" "Ma fille, c'est la procession Qui sort pour les Rogations." "Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Que chantent les prêtres ici?" "Ma fille, c'est la procession Qui fait le tour de la maison." Or, quand ce fut pour relever, A la messe elle voulut aller; Or, quand ce fut passé huit jours, Elle voulut faire ses atours: "Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Quel habit prendrai-je aujourd'hui?" "Prenez le vert, prenez le gris, Prenez le noir pour mieux choisir." "Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Ce que noir-là signifie?" "Femme qui relève d'enfant, Le noir lui est bien plus séant." Mais quand elle fut emmi des champs, Trois pastoureaux allaient disant: "Voilà la femme de ce seignour Que l'on enterra l'autre jour." "Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Que disent ces pastoureaux-ci." "Ils nous disent d'avancer le pas Ou que la messe n'aurons pas." Quand elle fut dans l'église entrée, Le cierge on lui a présenté. Aperçut, en s'agenouillant, La terre fraîche sous son banc; "Ah, dites-moi, mère m'amie, Pourquoi la terre est rafraîchie?" "Ma fille, ne vous le puis cacher, Renaud est mort est enterré." "Renaud, Renaud, mon réconfort, Te voilà donc au rang des morts; Divin Renaud, mon réconfort, Te voilà donc au rang des morts! Puisque le roi Renaud est mort, Voici les clefs de mon trésor; Prenez mes bagues et mes joyaux, Nourissez bien le fils Renaud. Terre, ouvre-toi, terre, fends-toi, Que j'aille avec Renaud mon roi!" Terre s'ouvrit, terre fendit, Et si fut la belle engloutie. This version is from Henri Davenson's book Le Livre des Chansons, (Cahiers du Rhone, 1955). He considers it to derive from the Breton gwerz Comte Nann (with Scandinavian antecedents), and goes on to say (extract, my translation): "The version (given here), with its variation for verse 20, was noted at Rouen, around 1850, by Ed. Jue, who tells us: "I learnt it from an old aunt who herself had it from an old nun, which takes us back to the 17th century." (The melody's) gregorian origin does not seem to be in doubt: it represents a liberal treatment of the hymn Ave Maris Stella (Vespers...of the Virgin) which is also the source of the Lutheran Chorale Erschienen ist der herrliche Tag, arranged by J.-S. Bach. It is a remarkable example of the mode of Ré (Ist. key of the plainchant, old Phrygian), turning on the dominant...La, and allowing a fleeting modulation on the upper Fourth." I'll send a midi of the tune, and of the variant for verse 20, to the Mudcat Midi site. Here is a rough translation: King Renaud returned from the war, carrying his guts in his hands. His mother was on the battlement; she saw her son Renaud coming. "Renaud, Renaud, rejoice! Your wife has given birth to a king." "I shall not be able to rejoice in my wife or my son. Go, mother, go on ahead; make me a fine white bed. Scarce any time remains to me: at midnight I shall die. But make it for me down here, so that (literally: she-who-is-in-childbed) may not hear." And when midnight came, King Renaud let go his soul. It was not yet the dawn of the day, and the menservants were all weeping; it was not yet time for the morning meal, and the womenservants were all weeping. "Ah, tell me, mother dear, why do our menservants weep?" "My daughter, while bathing our horses, they have let the finest one drown." "And why, mother dear, should they weep so for a horse? When King Renaud returns, he will bring finer horses. Ah, tell me, mother dear, why do our womenservants weep?" "My daughter, while washing our linen sheets*, they have lost the newest." "And why, mother dear, should they weep so for a linen sheet? When King Renaud returns, he will buy finer linen sheets. "Ah, tell me, mother dear, what is that hammering that I hear?" "My daughter, it is the carpenters repairing the floor." "Ah, tell me, mother dear, what is that ringing that I hear?" "My daughter, that is the procession leaving for Rogation." "Ah, tell me, mother dear, what are the priests singing?" "My daughter, that is the procession going around the house." Now, when it was time for her to get up again, she wanted to go to Mass; now, when eight days were passed, she wanted to get dressed. "Ah, tell me, mother dear, which dress should I wear today?" "Wear the green, wear the grey; black would be a better choice." "Ah, tell me, mother dear, why the black?" "Black is far more fitting for a women who rises from childbed." Now, when they were in the middle of the fields, three shepherds went by, saying: "There is the wife of the lord who was buried the other day." "Ah, tell me, mother dear, what are those shepherds saying?" "They are telling us to increase our pace or we will miss Mass." When she entered into the church, she was given a candle. As she knelt down, she saw fresh earth beneath her pew. "Ah, tell me, mother dear, why has the earth been turned over?" "My daughter, I cannot hide it from you; Renaud is dead and buried." "Renaud, Renaud my comfort, there you are in the ranks of the dead..." Since King Renaud is dead, here are the keys to my treasure; take my rings and my jewellery; take good care of my son Renaud. Open up, Earth, break apart, so that I may go with Renaud my king!" The Earth opened, the Earth broke apart; thus was the fair maid swallowed up. * Linceul means "shroud", nowadays, but I think that the older meaning is more likely here. Interestingly, there was a thread not long ago, here, concerning an Italian (Piedmont) song with almost exactly the same story. Malcolm
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: Jonathan (inactive) Date: 07 Feb 99 - 10:55 AM John, I don't know if your words are the ones on the Tabor?Simpson version, but I for one would be grateful for a post. I heard this song at a festival in Brittany in '80 but was too pissed to ask the singer to write them out for me (pissed as in inebriated, not discontented). Any song with that opening line is a must for any dirge merchant. Jonathan. |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: mkaye@att.com Date: 03 Feb 99 - 06:07 PM John - If the offer's still good, I'd be interested in getting what you can remember of the lyrics. So far, a rare case of not having much luck on a lyrics request thru Mudcat. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Jan 99 - 02:59 PM Yup, I made the clickable link. Look here for instructions on posting links, Will. -Joe Offer- Hey, are we ever going to get the lyrics (and translation) for this song???? |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: Will Date: 28 Jan 99 - 06:52 PM Thanks to whoever put in the clickable link in my message above (Joe?). I've really got to learn how to do that. |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: Jon Bartlett Date: 28 Jan 99 - 04:32 PM There's an OK set in Bernard Fuller, "La France qui chante" (London, 1959): Heinemann, p. 47. Marius Barbeau prints a longish set - 17 verses - (of the second part, his death being concealed from his wife by his mother) and gives a good background on the song's provenance (in Scandinavia) and spread, particularly its Quebecois versions, in "Folk-Songs of Old Quebec" (Ottawa, 1962: National Museum Bulletin No. 75). he gives a grand total of "90 French versions; 67 from the other Latin countries; 69 Scandinavian records. In all, 226. And there may be still more". (p. 20). It's interesting that it never got to Scotland or England.
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: John Moulden Date: 27 Jan 99 - 02:51 PM I don't know the Simpson/Tabor version but I have a set of words which begins (from memory and subject to errors of spelling) - Le Roi Renaud du Guerre revient Tenant sez tripes dans les mains If you can do no better and let me know, I'll trace them and transcribe it from my (then and still) awful handwriting. JOhn Moulden |
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Subject: RE: le roi renaud From: mkaye@att.com Date: 27 Jan 99 - 09:30 AM Thanks for the pointer, but that's not the song I'm looking for. Roi Renaud is "King Renaud" and is sung in French on the Tabor/Simpson album. Still looking... |
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