BS: Muslims vs Jews

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 07:56 PM

No LH, I meant the ram that was sacrificed instead of Isaac/Ishmael. I contend that the true chosen people are not the ones who shout "You're wrong and I'm right", but the bemused, who can't believe their eyes or ears, and who end up bleeding on some altar for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: Peace
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:58 PM

Who wrote what in the OT.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:56 PM

Interesting you would say that, John. In India, Ram (or Rama) is a great god-archetype from ancient times which probably predate Abraham, so people there would agree with you on that.

But I take it you meant that we like to butt heads...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:54 PM

According to the Bible,...


Who wrote it? The Old Testament comes from where?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: John O'L
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:42 PM

We are all the spiritual descendents of the ram.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:30 PM

Burn the past. But who has the match?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:30 PM

How can we ever expect nations to agree when most of us outside of the nationalites or countries in question can not agree. Sadly it's unlikely that peace will ever come to the Middle East, these nations are wed to fighting. So sad when people who visit this site and attempt to always take the moral high ground on every subject makes such general comments about these nations as he did in another thread. Not all of these people plant bombs. Shame on you Teddy, Shame on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Abu Hamza Guilty
From: flamenco ted
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 11:53 AM

Yes Alan, I do have a tendency to dislike people who blow us. Their Nationality though is ireelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:19 PM

Of course, these fragments of half history/half legend have great political resonance today. Pity, isn't it? I have just come home from a script meeting discussing a play about Moses and the Promised Land. Uncomfortable subject. God,in the Bible, warned Joshua and the Israelities to slaughter everyone in Canaan: anyone they left would have descendants that would be prickles in the Israelites eyes. Hmmmmmm. That's one prediction one could say was pretty spot on.
   How anyone could imagine that Ishmael ia Muhammed's father or grandfather is a little worrying.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: Peace
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:15 PM

Story here, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:15 PM

I think it's going to come as a bit of a surprise to the Indonesian Muslims and the Muslims in places like Chenya and Kosovo to learn that they are the fruit of Abraham's loins. And by your logic re: Mohammed, if you are a Christian, since Jesus was a Jew, I guess that makes you the fruit of Abraham's loins as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:03 PM

Several thousand tears ago! I like that. Make it several billion tears ago...

The whole thing is a sad, sad situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 06:01 PM

You are right. I stand corrected. You said Ishmael. but didn't Mohammad live centuries later? How could Ishmael be the father or grandfather to Mohammad?

I don't think it matters really Jews and Muslims are somewhere connected before Mohammad.

realistically, we all are.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 05:58 PM

who is to say that ALL the genealogical references are not inaccurate? Who kept all the records several thousand tears ago?

We base wars and enmities on a few old manuscripts with doubtful origins? Some of those names 'may' ultimately refer to actual historical persons, and some may be apocryphal and mistranslated.

Such obscure nonsense to dither over!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 05:53 PM

Martin gibson,

You are right. Sarah is the true mother of Isaac. I never said otherwise.

I actually am a Christian and that is the POV that i've been taught.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: GUEST,Tired of all the misinformation
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 05:50 PM

Maybe you're right, greg stephens.

But then again, Mohammed was the founder of the the muslim religion. He is a direct descendant of Ishmael, the illegitimate son of Abraham.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 05:46 PM

Are you a Hindu?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 05:46 PM

Difficult to find much history of the struggle between the Jews and the Muslims in the bible, surely? The bible finishes long before Muhammed was thought of.
Perhaps you mean Arabs or Palestinians rather than Muslims? It would be a mistake to imagine the terms are synonymous.

Subject: BS: Muslims vs Jews
From: GUEST,Tired of all the misinformation
Date: 08 Feb 06 - 05:41 PM

Anybody who has read the Bible knows the long and drawn out history of struggle between the Jews and the muslims. But to those here who have taken no time to learn the history before spouting off your uneducated opinion of what should happen, sit back, get yourself a cold drink, and read away.

According to the Bible,


Abraham was promised that he would be the father of a "great people". Abraham desperately wanted a child. God had promised Abraham a child but with impatient Abraham, and at the urging of his wife, he couldn't wait and had relations with Sarah's maidservant in order to have offspring. The product of the relation was Ishmael who is either the father or grandfather to Mohammed.
Then, BOOYAH, Sarah got pregnant and gave birth to Isaac. Father of Jacob and therefore the beginnings of the jewish lineage.
Now the Bible indicates that it's the jews who were promised the area that is now known as Israel but the area that they are currently in is somewhat smaller than what they say God promised them. Therefore, they want to eventually claim all the land that they say is due them since they are the "chosen people".
Their blood cousins, the muslims, believe that they are the rightful heirs since they too came from Abraham's loins.
Therein lies the problem.
So what we have are two books. The Bible and the Koran. Each people believe that they are the rightful tenants to the little patch of land in the middle east. Each book supports the claims of the people that read them. Each book declares that the descendants of Abraham are the rightful owners of the land.
One race is from a lawful, blessed union between man and wife. The other race is from a one night stand because of the impatience of both the same man and wife.
This issue is not something that will go away with the signing of some peace treaty. This will continue until the last day of mankind.

The end.

Your thoughts?