BS: Shotgun Cheney

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,Stella
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 02:16 AM

Shotgun Boogie?

Please have a look at: http://cdbaby.com/cd/taylord4

Regards

Stella

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 08:26 PM

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/cheney_tenways.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 07:11 AM

My old friend Owen Kelly tell this tale of a very smart rabbit,
When Cheney shot his lawyer friend he was following an established precedent.
Last year an Italian Lawyer out hunting shot a rabbit and stowed it in his game bag. The rabbit, a Bugs Bunny fan apparently, was only stunned, it came around crept out of the bag, placed one paw on a toehold, dropped to the ground and cleared off.
The toehold was the trigger, the gun went off and shot the hunter in a place that wouldn`t blind him.
He ate his dinner off the mantlepiece for quite a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 11:38 AM

Today he is on CNN handing out distinguished service crosses to service men.

I'm so proud I could bust

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 08:26 PM

gnu-

Thanks for clarifying what Cheney was aiming at and why.

I feel much better, but it may have something to do with the two beers I've downed.

BUT WHERE IS THE AMBASSADOR?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:53 PM

I thought 'Broken Arrow' would be more appropriate :-) - weapons of mass deception and all...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 05:20 PM

Okay Charley....

I just talked to Dick. From what I could make out (ya know how Dick gets after a few), that the "accident" was actually a premptive strike on Avian Bird Flu. It appeared that the quail may have transmitted the deadly virus to humans, causing the victim to act irrationally. Of course, Dick had no choice but to act decisively, and unilateraly, and quarantine it.

Good shot, Straight Arrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 04:11 PM

Cheney was using one of those special guns designed to hit targets behind him. Of course they exist - Maxwell Smart and his fellow workmates in CHAOS had them ages ago!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:44 AM

I'm shocked to see this thread abandoned so soon. What a bunch of wimps!

No one has addressed so far the mysterious disappearance of a prime witness to the event, the Swiss Ambassador:

**MISSING WHITE WOMAN ALERT***
Name: Pamela Willeford
Age: 50ish
Occupation: US Ambassador to Switzerland
Last seen: Sat. 2/11/06, on a ranch in Texas, in the company of the V-POTUS
Details: Ms. Willeford is missing after an incident involving firearms and alcohol.
 
SHE MAY BE IN GRAVE DANGER! Please report any information immediately to the authorities.
 
(Cheney has said over and over that Anne Armstrong, who remained in the car, was an "eye witness." But wouldn't the account of Pamela Willeford, who was ostensibly standing right next to Cheney at the time, be much more reliable? Where is she now? And where is her husband?)

I have no reason to doubt the veracity of the above story since it was sent to me via personal e-mail, along with an attachment showing Cheney examining a smoking shotgun at a NRA convention, with the gentleman to his left sadly missing his head...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:44 AM

well gnu, if mr whitington froze and pointed like a bird dog, it still wouldnt have helped him.
He was also behind Cheney at the time- according to the link above.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 11:40 AM

Last night on the Tonight Show Jay Leno said that at one Presidential ceremony (Yesterday was US Presidents Day) when they fired the 21-gun salute, Cheney shot back.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 10:11 AM

They have convictions??!!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:57 AM

He admitted to drinking "ONE" beer. Given that he has a problem with booze, I'm suspicious.

What a pair to lead this nation, between them they have 5 alcohol related convictions.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 09:18 AM

He was drinkin? Well SOB! I hope he gets the max!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:13 PM

Doesn't he pay people to shoot humans for him? Or is that the C-in-C's job?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 10:04 PM

From the time I was 15 I was an avid hunter. Then one day I shot a deer that didn't die right away, and as I approached it looked at me as much as to say, "Why"? Then the same thought crossed my mind and I haven't hunted since.

I'm sorry, but Cheney broke two firm rules; drinking and shooting a human. No excuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 09:32 PM

equal justice/accidents for all

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/cheneyfk.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:46 PM

Don't mention the war!


I did, but I think I got away with it...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 07:15 PM

Kinda hard to ID something sneaking in to your field of fire. Ya kinda depend on humans to be a little more intelligent. I have even more doubt now that I know that quail flush and fly in an erractic fashion. "Sure of your target" just don't cut the guilty verdict in this situation. Keep saying it if you want. Don't make it right.

First time you and I disagreed... since the war.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 05:40 PM

Kendall, from your earlier post, I find it difficult to believe you were a hunter. Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens too frequently. The man walked back to the group without announcing himself. I have several pellet marks I could show you as I pulled the same dumb trick once.
I am sure Cheney saw the target, he did not see tke man as he swung and fired.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 08:11 AM

People such as Cheney would f**k up where ever they hunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Big Phil
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 09:14 PM

What amazes me is the Americans wear bright orange vests when shooting, and they still manage to shoot each other, How they would fare over here in blighty when the tradition is for dull, drab colours god only knows.............

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 03:02 PM

Yeah, Kendall. One in each hand?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 12:48 PM

Maybe it was his glasses that were fogged up.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 12:41 PM

I've shot a lot of targets. Lousy eating. They don't cook up very well and taste real pulpy.

Empty soft drink cans are inedible, but if you fill them with water first, they make a very satisfying geyser, especially when hit by a .45 ACP wadcutter.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 12:27 PM

I think that may be due to his class, Ron.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 11:59 AM

Impaired. And he aimed low-as he always does.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 11:55 AM

Gnu-

I just Goggled you up a reference to the 4-gauge elephant gun:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An elephant gun is a large caliber rifle, so named because they were originally developed for use in hunting elephants and other large, dangerous game.

Traditionally, these were very large caliber black powder double rifles (c.1880-1895), often as big as 4-gauge and occasionally larger, giving projectiles starting at 4oz (113g). The most prestigious manufacturer of elephant guns was the British Holland & Holland. With the development of cordite, projectiles could reach a much higher muzzle velocity, lessening the need for such massive calibers, and relatively smaller calibers (.458"-.577") became the norm (c.1900). The Nitro Express line, so named because the composition of cordite is nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine, was the first to create ammunition to fill this market for smaller rounds with calibers such as the .577 Nitro Express, .500 Nitro Express and the .470 Nitro Express. These cartridges delivered anywhere from 5000 to 7000 ft-lbf of kinetic energy at the muzzle. Of the Nitro Express cartridges, the .470 Nitro Express is the only one still in commercial production. The larger bore rifles did not die off immediately, though, with large Nitro Express rounds such as the .600 Nitro Express and .700 Nitro Express still being made, but these eventually proved to be overpowered for anything but emergency use to stop a charging animal, and the smaller Nitro Express rounds won out.

Mr. Whittington is fortunate that Mr. Chaney was not using this state-of-the art weapon for the quail hunt.

Have a nice day!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 11:39 AM

I just had an inspiration - one that should satisfy the yearnings of the most atavistic among us: Make Skeet hollow and fill the compartment with red liquid. Splaaaat!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:48 AM

Impaired is an excellent term for him, Kendall. Deeply so.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:48 AM

Quail is an ancient delicacy, especially prized nowadays in French Style Cooking. They are readily available in Australia now, bred in captivity. The usual serving is one full quail per diner as an entrée. They are smaller than a clenched fist.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 19 Feb 06 - 08:36 AM

I've been an avid hunter most of my adult life (up until a few years ago when I quit) and I can state flatly that you NEVER pull that trigger unless you see your intended target. There is no excuse for mistaking a man for a quail. The evidence says he was impaired.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:45 PM

Quail meat is sweeter than spotted owl, and it isn't stringy like bald eagle.
Dove is great; 70 or 80 of them make a good snack.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:39 PM

Ebbie... less than 8" long? Gosh. I did not know that. Must take a shitload to make a stew. Why would anyone... oh... yeah... already addressed that queston. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:31 PM

I have never shot skeet. How barbaric. They are raised in tiny quarters... never allowed to roam... never allowed to live any kind of life... only to experience the possibilty of flight to freedom once... and few make it. Join SKEETA (Society for Eating Every Tasty Animal) and help. The K is silent. Only you can make a difference. K?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,boab
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:29 PM

Yaaawwwn! Mountains and molehills spring to mind......

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:27 PM

Jes' goes to show you're smarter than the average coyote, Eb! :D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:24 PM

The only quail I'm familiar with is California Quail, unless you're talking about the bobwhite. I don't know how much the adults weigh but I'd say they are something like 8 inches long. The chicks are little puff balls about the size of your thumb from the joint to the tip.

Once as I walking in the woods a quail flung itself into my path, flipping and flopping to get my attention. Knowing there had to be a nest nearby I stood still and looked around. About two feet from my left foot was this round nest of a dozen or so squirmng puff balls. Cuter than you can imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:05 PM

Skeet also tastes terrible. Kinda chalky and metallic.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 11:01 PM

Crow? Never tasted them. Ravens, of course, are sacred. Now, I can attest that robins taste awful. Squirrel is even worse. Well, red squirrel... I don't know about them big fat grey ones on accounta I wasn't hungry when I seen them up in mid-western New Brunswick.

But... this here quail thing has taken a tern fer me. Just a few hours ago at a birthday supper. My brother, a world champion skeet shooter, all guages (Eurpoean, NATO, others... the boy can, ah, use to, shoot), told me at supper tonight that a quail is a tiny little bird that flies faster and flightier than a woodcock.... and, it's smaller than a woodcock!! (???? really???) He said it was like a sparrow on steroids. Is that true, or was he yankin my Cheney?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 10:29 PM

Doug, I know a girl who grew up in the bush and her dad was a trapper. She said she'd eaten most every kind of creature out there you could cook up.

And she said that the only thing she couldn't stomach was crow. It apparently tastes awful.

Probably where the expression comes from.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 08:48 PM

Soooo... we don't know the choke eh? If we can't even get the choke, how are we going to find out chamber? Dram equivalent? Special? Range? Steel? Lead? Field? Magnum? Shelf? Reload? Custom? Primer? Double trigger? Single? Select? Flo bead? Red dot? Brass?

There's a lot more than meets the eye here.

Oh, BTW... I hear the lad apologized to Dick for stepping into his field of fire without warning.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: DougR
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 05:55 PM

Don: Nope. I don't eat crow. I hear it's real stringy.

Peace: you don't go dove hunting? Tasty little critters. Excellent for the crockpot if you have enough of them. Want a recipe?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 04:58 PM

Just one other thought...

If it is true that Cheney didn't bother to notify his boss until the next morning, what does that say about who really is the "boss"...

Seems purdy arrogant to me on Cheney's part...

Nice piece of writing, Maureen...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 04:43 PM

From my favorite redheaded Guerilla Woman, Maureen Dowd:

Shooter Slips on a Silencer

By MAUREEN DOWD

...

The luckless 78-year-old Texas lawyer, Harry Whittington, is in intensive care after a heart attack, with up to 200 pellets riddling his face and body — one stuck in his heart — from Dick Cheney's designer Perazzi Brescia shotgun. And still his friend, the vice president, is Swift-BB-ing him.

Private citizens have been enlisted to blame the victim. Maybe poor Mr. Whittington put himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. But he was, after all, behind Vice, not in front of him. And the hunter pulling the trigger is supposed to make sure he has a clear shot. Wouldn't it be, well, classy for Shooter to express just a bit of contrition and humility?

Instead, the usual sliming has begun, with the Cheney camp trying to protect the vice president by casting a veteran hunter as Elmer Dud.

Scott McClellan told the White House press corps that Katharine Armstrong, a lobbyist with government ties who owns the Texas ranch (and whose mother, Anne, was on the Halliburton board that hired Mr. Cheney as C.E.O.), "pointed out that the protocol was not followed by Mr. Whittington when it came to notifying the others that he was there."

As the story of the weekend's bizarre hunting accident is wrenched out of the White House, the picture isn't pretty: With American soldiers dying in Iraq, Five-Deferment Dick "I Had Other Priorities in the 60's Than Military Service" Cheney gets his macho kicks gunning down little birds and the occasional old man while W. rides his bike, blissfully oblivious to any collateral damage. Shouldn't these guys work on weekends until we figure out how to fix Iraq, New Orleans, Medicare and gas prices?

This version of "The Most Dangerous Game" neatly follows the four-step Bush-Cheney cycle:

Step 1: Set out to pick off what you think is an easy target, like quail this time or pen-raised and netted pheasant in the past, or a certain sanction-caged Iraqi dictator.

Step 2: In the corrupt company of lobbyist-contractor friends, botch things up. Ignore the peril at hand — as with, oh, Osama at Tora Bora, or Katrina, or the Iraq occupation — and with steely resolve, indulge your raging incompetence. (Oops.)

Step 3: Stonewall. Resist giving Congress information about 9/11 or Katrina; don't tell the public how you're tapping phones at home, setting up gulags abroad and making war and energy policy in secret. Why give the taxpayers, who are ponying up for these weekend hunting trips, the extraordinary news that Vice shot his hunting companion in the face and chest? Scott McClellan knew before yesterday's White House briefing at noon that Mr. Whittington was worse, but did not tell the reporters. He left that to Corpus Christi doctors, who spun the heart attack as "an inflammatory response to a metallic foreign BB."

Step 4: Admit no mistakes. Express sympathy. Blame the victim without leaving fingerprints by outsourcing the smear to the private sector.

Trent Lott joked in a meeting yesterday that Mr. Cheney was now the "shooter in chief," while other wags noted that Quayle was always a problem for Bushes.

Presidential staff members and lawmakers speculated yesterday about whether Shooter would resign and make room for Condi if Mr. Whittington did not survive. His death would trigger a more thorough police investigation and probably a grand jury.

"Are you crazy?" one Republican senator told a reporter. "He'd never quit." (Aaron Burr presided over the Senate after he killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel.)

The shooter in chief can't quit because he is the administration. Who'd even tell him to quit? If necessary, he'd probably make W. take the fall.

Despite efforts by Mr. McClellan to joke and urge reporters to get back to "the pressing priorities of the American people," the hunting debacle once more showed Mr. Cheney running the imperial show.

He didn't talk to the sheriff for 14 hours, or even call the president to notify him after the 5:50 p.m. accident. Vice left that to Andy Card, who called Mr. Bush at 7:30 p.m. to say there had been a hunting accident, without mentioning that Vice was the gunman. Soon after that, Karl Rove called Mr. Bush back with that little detail.

A reporter, surprised, pressed Mr. McClellan: "The vice president did not call the president to tell him he was the shooter?"

Usually when there's a White House cover-up, the president's in on it."...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 04:43 PM

"CAN ANYONE HERE USE THEIR HEAD FOR ANYTHING BUT A PLACE FOR THEIR BALLCAP?"

Rather nice, dontcha think?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 04:32 PM

I understand that Dick-Head did actually go to the hospital to see his "peppered" buddy, but that he made sure to bring his lawyer with him.

Oh, the humanity! :)


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 03:51 PM

It's called polarization. The Bushites will call it "Much ado about nothing" and the liberals will call it what it is. More cover up.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 02:53 PM

" just heard the "victim hunter" give a statement to the press and he looked and sounded pretty healthy to me.
DougR "

Then you saw and heard a different man than I did, Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 02:32 PM

I just got a call from a buddy, but missed the new song on the raido... Cheney's Got a Gun, done to the tune by Arrowsmith. A hoot I am told.

Well... I gotta go out in that cold wind now... where's my ballcap?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 01:25 PM

People were standing all around
Shotgun Cheney from out of town
And I I I I I'm the victim yea yea
Of a shotgun Cheney
Who gave that fool a gun
When there ain't no place to run
Shotgun Cheyney

There is this lawyer named Whittington
Stood near Dick Cheney, he had a gun
Wo wo wo Shotgun Cheney
He said your secrets I won't tell
And I ain't no fucking quail
Shotgun Cheney

G

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 01:20 PM

JUST WHAT THE HOSPITAL NEEDED - THE VP OF THE US AT THE SAME TIME THEY WERE TREATING THE MAN. THAT WOULD BE A MAD HOUSE WHEN THAT CARAVAN PULLED UP.
CAN ANYONE HERE USE THEIR HEAD FOR ANYTHING BUT A PLACE FOR THEIR BALLCAP?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 01:14 PM

Hunters!!

Whittington's prognosis would have been a helluvalot better if they hadn't driven him to the hospital tied to the fender of the car!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Feb 06 - 08:21 AM

I should have said "Proper Way to Hunt Quail: Don't Aim Low"   (Wall St Journal headline).

Cheney did aim low.

Actually, that fits him perfectly--he's always aimed low--especially with propaganda and other disinformation campaigns geared to hate and fear--which have worked like a charm.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:39 PM

gnu,

A sign of intellegence is, or sanity, is knowing to quit doing something if either you find out its wrong or you find out it ain't workin'...

I think you have more inate intellegence than Bush or anyone in his inner circle...

And, jus' fir laughs... Remember when Bush became president in 2000? Well, there were alot of folks saying stuff like, "Well, at least Cheney is in there to keep him straight..."

Thems were the good old days...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:01 PM

I would definitely agree with you Bobert, if I had shot him.

Certainly, I would have never left his side. I would have stayed at the hospital. I would still be there.

But, I am not the Vice President of the most viscious government on the face of the earth. There is barking and biting to be done. Not to mention baying at the moon. And, sniffing out those who would oppose freedom, at any cost, even freedom.

Yeah... before you say it... I endorsed the war. However, my reversal is based on fact... as was my endorsement, or, so I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:40 PM

Just another thought: If I had shot a good friend by accident, I ceratinly wouldn't have stayed at the ranch for the dinner party and evening festivities...

I'd have been camped out at the hospital...

I think this speaks volumes about the character, or lack there of, of Dick Cheney...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:32 PM

"Punt Gun". Yeeees by'. Many a story about a punt gun. Ten guage. I know a lad in Newfoundland who has one. It's a beast. Unreal... 36 inch barrel. Must weigh near fifteen pound!

8 Guage. Yup. I know of three. One in New Brunswick, the other two in New England. As near as I know, there are only three left in the world. BTW, the previous owner of the house I am in right now was the owner of the NB gun. His son now has it.

4 guage. No fuckin way. They stopped makin the 8 guage after it killed a bunch of people by knocking their eye balls out of their sockets. (Okay, I made that up. But so did whoever came up with a shoulder fired 4 guage. 4 guage? Why not use TNT attached to an arrow?)

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:14 PM

Tempest in a Scotch bottle maybe

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM

Oh, Cheney was drinking, Doug.

If it looks like a quail, walks like a quail and quacks like a quail... then turn around and shoot your buddy in the face.

Then hide from the cops for about 12 hours to clear your blood alcohol level.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 04:00 PM

A heart attack is a tempest in a teapot?

And your medical degree came from. . . ?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:46 PM

There must be a lot of disappointed posters to this thread. I just heard the "victim hunter" give a statement to the press and he looked and sounded pretty healthy to me.

Tempest in a teapot!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:32 PM

"Here in Maine we used to have the "duck guns." These were small cannons placed in the bow of our punts (no, that's not a pun but a flat-bottom rectangular row boat). You could mow down an entire flock with one of those or a small village if one was within range. I think they're now illegal to use for hunting but you can still collect them."

James Michener mentioned them in his historical novel, "Chesapeake".

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:26 PM

I just got this glorious vision. A substantial number of like-minded people get together at a public appearance by Cheney (if he ever makes one of those) and burst into song, to the tune of "Bringing in the Sheaves":

    Killing things for fun, Killing things for fun;
    What could be more manly; Killing things for fun;
    Killing things for fun, Killing things for fun;
    Cheney gets his jollies, Killing things for fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: DougR
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:24 PM

Ebbie: no, my "peppering" did not require hospitalization. The pellets did not break the skin.

All of the conspiracy theories reflected in messages on this thread are a riot! Haven't had such a good laugh in days.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 03:16 PM

Don-

Getting lobbied?

Gnu-

With regard to the range of gauges for shotguns, do they still sell the 4 and 8-gauge elephant guns? It strikes me that they would be even more effective for shooting down quail, not to mention their potential for more collateral damage.

Here in Maine we used to have the "duck guns." These were small cannons placed in the bow of our punts (no, that's not a pun but a flat-bottom rectangular row boat). You could mow down an entire flock with one of those or a small village if one was within range. I think they're now illegal to use for hunting but you can still collect them.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:17 PM

Question:    Who, exactly, is Katharine Armstrong, who hosted the hunting party on her spread, The Armstrong Ranch? Only one of the biggest lobbyists in Texas. The following is from a profile of her:

In 2004 she hung out her own lobby shingle and registered three lobby contracts, led by construction company Parsons Technology and Dannenbaum Engineering Corp., which is a major contractor for Texas water projects.

The list of registered lobbyists currently shows her to have four clients, but it is noised about that she also lobbies for a number of special interest groups. Most sources I found, if they mentioned their existence at all, were a bit circumspect about them. I wasn't able to track down any names, but I didn't have long to look. My wife and I are having guests this afternoon (not a shooting party) so I don't have time to follow up on this right now. Maybe somebody here could do some further checking.

Since she's a lobbyist, what the hell was Cheney doing there in the first place?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:58 PM

Oh my goodness. I just read that link, Peace. I was sickened. That's just the kind of asshole that shouldn't be allowed to hunt.

Go ahead. Run with it. Just try to be creative, eh. You're welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:56 PM

And, the worst of it is, they call them "sports"!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 01:30 PM

Good lord. I come from a family and a culture of hunting. Venison and elk and moose have all graced our table.

But--- I've been reading some of the gun talk articles and I am repulsed at the, not casual, but rather, oblivious mind set that accompanies the killing of birds that no one is gong to take home and cook. I'd bet anyone that most of those dead birds end up in a garbage can.

It's true that pheasant and quail and hummingbird, for gods' sake, have or had their turn on our 'upperclass' tables but I'll bet you that not one in a thousand ends up there now.

Why not skeet shoot? I did a lot of target practicing when I was young and I too like the coordination of eye and hand it takes but why must the target be alive?

As to the kind of "hunting" that Cheney was doing-pfffttttt!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 11:18 AM

Read here--scroll down, Ebbie.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:52 AM

The word "peppered" in this connection bothers me. As far as I'm concerned, peppered is what you get when a spray of gravel hits you or when some other small objects hit you and bounce off you. Disproportionate to their mass, they sting.

Peppered is not what you are when the objects not only pierce your skin but penetrate the flesh deeply enough to get into the arteries. Surely those who, like DougR, say that they have been peppered, don't mean that they ended up in the hospital?

Incidentally, what is the range of the 28-gauge?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:41 AM

"The Daily Show" wins hands down (whatever that means!) with this quip from Rob Corddry paraphrased in part by columnist Ellen Goodman:

The Vice President, he intoned, was following the best intelligence that said there were quail in the bush. Of course, the quail turned out to be the 78-year-old man, but "even knowing that today, Mr. Cheney insists - he still would have shot Mr. Whittington in the face."

So much for my morning coffee and the rest of that page!

However, I'm firmly convinced that Mr. Chaney was most upset when he realized what he had done:

Indeed, this old friend was no quail,
And his face turned a whiter shade of pale!

I bet this could be put to a tune...

Charley Ignoble

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 10:10 AM

Let's look at the facts for the hell of it:
Cheney Has a drinking problem. He has TWO convictions for OUI.
He admitted drinking before the hunt, after the farm owner stated that there was NO alcohol served that day.
With the help of the Secret Service, Cheney avoided the law, and never took a breath test.
Men and birds do not resemble each other. I've never seen a quail wearing blaze orange.
Of course it was an accident, and as Cheney stated, he was totally to blame.
You have to wonder about why it was handled that way, and it looks like another stonewall to me.
The combination of incompetence and secrecy in this whole administration troubles me deeply.
Oh well, maybe now they will shut up about Chapaquiddick.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 08:33 AM

I reserve the right to revise and amend my remarks.

It turns out according to the Fox TV & clear channel radio empire that there is no story about a hunting accident. Furthermore The Vice President's explanation was a POWERFUL POWERFUL one and satisfies the nation. IF anyone STILL harbors any ill will toward Cheney - they are just heartless fanatics who can not see there is a poor man with a deep hurt that will never be forgotten.

THE REAL STORY IS that the left wing media made a complete horses ass of themselves over losing bragging rights to break the story.

There is always a silver lineing to every darkish cloud and that is it took the attention away from the Katrina report, Able Danger, Libby and the CIA testimony regarding White House intelligence tampering.

Things in Iraq are better than ever.

no news is good news.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:54 AM

"He's got a 16-gauge choked down like a rifle
He don't like a man that's a-gonna trifle.
Shot-gun Boogie (* * * *) draws a bead so fine ...
Look out big boy, he's loaded all the time."

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:44 AM

"negligence" under the law is 'an act or failure to act' which implies intent.

A 'failure to act' is an 'act' called 'negligence'.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:41 AM

As you might imagine, this was manna from heaven for Jon Stewart et al. Hope you've caught some of his shows dealing with it. My favorite was the reaction to Cheney's statement on all that he (Cheney) had suffered in mental anguish. They were putting words in Cheney's mouth--"Sorta like Vietnam--if I'd gone there"

Jon also did a riff on --in a post 9-11 world, it was important to let the quail know that America was strong--which Cheney could only do by shooting his friend in the face

The Wall St Journal had an article--proving what several posters have already said--that Cheney, for all his alleged hunting experience, is a wretched hunter--even in a canned "hunt", where, as several have already indicated, they drive out to where the birds are.

The headline says it all--as several hunters on Mudcat have already noted: "Proper Way To Hunt Quail: Don't Shoot Low"

Cheney didn't.

The fact that, was it Doug R?--has also been peppered by birdshot from other "hunters" just means Cheney is not the only feeble excuse for a "quail hunter" out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 06:23 AM

"As far as the other person notifying you if hes in the line of fire,
what do you do when you have a dog with you. Is the dog supposed to say something?"

Bird dogs are trained to freeze and point and to flush and freeze.

(BTW, most dogs are not as tall as most humans. Seldom does a hunter train a bird dog to jump up in the air.)

"...in Canada we have an offence called criminal negligence causing bodily harm."

Hmmm. Wouldn't this charge require proof of criminal intent?

"And, it's not just Dick. It happens every day.

If it's no real bother, mind if I steer a wide berth of you? But, no, it doesn't "happen every day". At least not in normal company; can't say if your situation pertains."

Do I mind? No, I insist, if you continue to take my statements out of context and apply them improperly. Go back and read what I actually wrote, after which, I referred to the "raptor" thread to demonstrate my point. Here is another point from that thread. Someone tried to put words in my mouth because they couldn't back up thier arguement. That kind of nonsense seems to happen a lot around here too. Why, just look at what you did by taking my statement out of context and trying to put words in my mouth. Fight fair or take off eh, ya hoser.

NEW STUFF ALERT for those who only read snippets of posts :

Anyone know the choke on that 28? While a 28 with 7 1/2 might be common for quail, I would like to know the choke. If Dick wasn't using open cylinder or improved... well, then, I think you know where this is going. Obviously, if it was modified, he is guilty of criminal negligence causing elderly harm. And, if it was full, premeditated murder in the first guage, game over.

Now, I must concern myself with matters of actual importance, do something useful, something constructive... perhaps I'll trim my pubes.

PS... Peace. "lucky quail"! That was fuckin priceless man!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 05:55 AM

... how much responsiblity does the vice-president really have in connection to the deaths over in the mideast ... let's face it, the vice-presidency is rather an impotent position.

Not so impotent when you are pulling the strings of the Puppet-in- Chief.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Feb 06 - 02:46 AM

you're quite right gnu. I know jack shit about hunting and I am generally unsympathetic to anybody with need for a gun anywhere - apart from soldiers and police officers.

however I do know about drinking. and I know this much. if anybody has started to use the phrase 'drinking problem' about you - even after only one beer, you should be kept well out of the way of guns, cars, and possibly much else.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 09:52 PM

Dewey asked - "Is your desire for a manslaughter conviction, because you do not like Mr. Cheney as a person? and/or the Republican Leadership specifically?"

I don't know Mr. Cheney so how can I judge him as a person? I judge his actions because he is the 2nd in command of the U.S.A. Whether or not he's Republican, has nothing to do with the fact.

He shot a man accidently and should be tried. In Canada its called bodily harm due to criminal negligence. I thought manslaughter would be more fitting because he is responsible for the slaughter of thousands. I am not surprised that he is trigger happy and anyone who supports a 'hunter' who shoots first and asks questions later is not someone who should be allowed to carry a gun of any kind.

How can you possibly mistake a man for a bird? Gimme a break, Cheney and his companion were just plain careless. What kind of a sport shoots before seeing his prey?

I do not hope for anyone's death. I'm just chuckling about the karma.

Cheney says this was the worst day of his life. I'm sure! He tried to cover the entire situation by transporting the victim to a small, out of the way, hospital. He got caught. I'm sure it was embarassing and he knew it would make him look like the fool he is. Does he feel remorse? I doubt it. If he had an ounce of empathy, he would not be supporting and profitting from the invasion of Iraq.

Cheney is hardly impotent. He is a danger to society.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 09:43 PM

Spirit of the West had a song out a few years ago dealing with that theme:


Loaded Minds
(Geoffrey Kelly/John Mann)

Young boy is killed by a gun-toting driver
He caught him, shot him `cause the kid went too far
When the man was asked why, he replied with conviction,
"I caught the young punk throwing stones at my car,
Stones at my car"

Uncle Sam's on the billboard, stars and stripes shining
As I drive by, he's a message for me
The sign reads the constant preparation for war
This is the preservation of peace

   There's a war in our streets,
   There's a war in our streets,
   And we're loading our minds with the words "self-defence"
   Take someone's life for crossing over our fence
   There's a war in our streets
   There's a war in our streets
   And we're loading our minds with the words "self-defence"
   And we take someone's life for crossing over our fence
   That's the freedom

Tricks on his door sent an old man's heart racing
Tricks on his mind broke his patience in two
He answered the door with the crack of a rifle
Paper boy dies, delivering the news
He becomes the news

Folk heroes and murderers, they're condoned and condemned
They're crucified and idolized for taking their stand
Is this how we live? All good people on guard?
Defending our rights, in the home and native land

(chorus)

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 09:06 PM

The Japanese foreign exchange student, I remember that. The night before Halloween this boy and another got dressed up in costumes to go to a Halloween party. They had a leaflet with directions but it had the wrong address on it. They went to the door of the house and rang the bell. A woman opened the door and one boy said they were there for the party and holds up the leaflet. Bizarrely, the woman screamed, slammed the door shut and announced they were being robbed. The two boys assumed they had the wrong house and started to leave. I think that next the garage door of this house flew open and a man with a rifle or shotgun, I forget, yells, "Freeze!" The Japanese boy for some reason began to walk toward the man--apparently trying to reason with him or perhaps thinking it was some kind of Halloween prank or maybe he didn't know what the term meant. The man gunned him down.

Can you imagine sending your kid to experience another country and he's all excited about going and you send him off figuring he's going to have a great time and lots of stories to tell when he comes back and the goddamned sons-of-bitches take your only child away in a most brutal fashion for no fucking reason? The killer was also acquitted of murder at his trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Arne
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:50 PM

CET:

Well, nobody sane is suggesting that the Vice President shot his friend on purpose, but in Canada we have an offence called criminal negligence causing bodily harm. Is there really no equivalent in the Texas penal code?

Ummm, in Texas, firing guns willy-nilly is consider to be a virtue, and I wouldn't be surprised if you get bonus points for the more people you wing. Don't believe me, check out what happened to some kid who rang the door on the wrong house....

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Arne
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:44 PM

Number Six:

... how much responsiblity does the vice-president really have in connection to the deaths over in the mideast ... let's face it, the vice-presidency is rather an impotent position..

You've got to be kidding. The ol' Dubya sock-puppet wouldn't even appear at the Sept. 11th hearings without pal Cheney by his side. With new high-test string, you can get those things working a little distance away and not have 'em show too obviously, but I suspect they couldn't make 'em navigate the doors and corridors in the Congress without getting pinched and tangled....

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Arne
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:37 PM

gnu:

The stamp just came out. The local admin didn't even know it was required or they would have informed him when they WERE ASKED FOR ALL NECESSARY PRMITS!!! Good sufferin fuck!! I can't believe you said that.

As they say, "ignerrance of the law is no defense". That being said, they let him off with a slap'o'da'wrist because the stamp was new and not too many people knew about it. But that hardly changes the fact that the law required it and he didn't have it. Say what you want about that being understandable, excusable, or (in this case) excuse, but the FOTM is he didn't have it in violation of the law. OK?

Gee. You are so intelligent that you missed my point.

Yep. Sailed clear over my head. Guess you weer aiming high; a wise decision in these troubled times. So why don't you try again?

I just cannot comprehend that so many people who seem to stand for "right" and "justice" and so on can be so bloodthirsty, can be so willing to convict a man with no proof, can judge a man guilty before the facts are known.

He shot someone. Maybe an accident. Maybe intentional. We don't know all the facts, as you say. I'm willing to be charitable (for now) and assume the former, but I don't see how you can get off with any other conclusion than one of those two given even his own statements on what happened. So there we are. Hate to say it, but you do bear some responsibility when you accidentally shoot someone. Fair 'nuff?

And, it's not just Dick. It happens every day.

If it's no real bother, mind if I steer a wide berth of you? But, no, it doesn't "happen every day". At least not in normal company; can't say if your situation pertains.

Read the thread on the guy who shot the raptor in England just recently.

As I stated above: If you're going to pull that trigger, you are responsible for making sure that whatever is in your shot's path is something you want to hit. You don't know? Then don't pull the friggin' trigger. People who violate this rule are generally termed ... with derision ... "trigger-happy". Come to think of it, this is hardly the first instance that ol' "GFY" Dick has pulled the trigger too soon. Except last time, 2200 young Americans ended up dead. You're right if you think this latest shooting is a little thing. It is; it's just too damn symptomatic of why Cheney ought to be allowed to "go hunt himself" ... and nothing else. I would note that the next time Scalia is asked to join Cheney hunting, he might be inclined to find more "conflict of interest" than he did the prior time.

Seriously, gnu: Cheney's a "loose cannon". No other way to put it. And that's that....

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:21 PM

Thank you. I feel better now.

And for you from my ol' Mom (gone now):

I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life;
They do taste kinda funny
But it keeps them on my knife.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:19 PM

"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:13 PM

Peace-

Your quail quip was quite witty!

As my mother used to say:

I love me quail with a Q because he is quiet;
I hate him with a Q because he is quarrelsome;
His name is Quincy. He comes from Quebec.
He lives on quahogs and quinces,
And he is quite a quilter!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: CET
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:12 PM

I still don't like the rush to judgment by so many on this thread, any more than Gnu does, but as more gets reported, the case for Cheney gets weaker. It seems now that he turned and fired, and then saw that he had shot his friend. It seems evident then, that: 1) he shot at too low an angle; 2) his friend was not hidden; 3) whether or not the other hunter had moved out of his proper zone, Mr. Cheney clearly fired before verifying that the field of fire was clear.

I used to be a prosecutor (in remission for 12 years now), and I have some difficulty in understanding the attitude of the District Attorney, who was quoted as saying he could see nothing criminal in this, and that it was obviously an accident. Well, nobody sane is suggesting that the Vice President shot his friend on purpose, but in Canada we have an offence called criminal negligence causing bodily harm. Is there really no equivalent in the Texas penal code? Any Mudcatter lawyers out there?

CET

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 08:00 PM

Face it, Peace. We're all self-involved pricks, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:55 PM

"Gotta admit though that the quail got lucky, huh?"

Arseholes the lot of you. I give you the best laugh you've had all day and does anyone notice? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:51 PM

Well, meanwhile back at the ranch, Boss Hog was fleecing the Indians...

Just another smokescreen...

Like who cares??? I sho nuff don't... Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Cheney shoot up the entire Repub Congress... (No deaths, please... Jus' a bunch of sore folks who wouldn't be able to mess up anything more fir a week or two...(...

But like I siad, who really cares??? All this amounts to is yet another distraction to keep the American people from realizing that they are being robbed!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:49 PM

". I mean compared to all the other brutal deaths he has caused."

... how much responsiblity does the vice-president really have in connection to the deaths over in the mideast ... let's face it, the vice-presidency is rather an impotent position.

What disturbs me is this 'hunting group' comprised a bunch of people that have very close ties to making very large profits in 'contracts' reaping big $$ rewards over there.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:48 PM

He didn't know them personally, so it was OK - it's called 'distancing'.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:48 PM

my father-in-law who is a retired conservation officer and hunts regularly told me that he will not shoot unless he is certain of a kill.
(this is deer or moose hunting obviously)

As far as the other person notifying you if hes in the line of fire,
what do you do when you have a dog with you. Is the dog supposed to say something?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:48 PM

Gotta admit though that the quail got lucky, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:44 PM

Well, I'm sure no fan of Dick Cheney. I still think he's an evil bastard. But he shot his buddy, for chrissake... I've gotta admit I feel a bit sorry for him.

But not as sorry as I feel for his buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:41 PM

The "one beer" was, he said, three hours earlier.

I think Gnu has the rights of it -- there is no sense or need to lambast Cheney for anymore than he actually did. The fact is he shot someone. He was entirely at fault for it. And he wisely said so, too.

I still don't get why it made him feel bad, though. I mean compared to all the other brutal deaths he has caused. I can only conclude it is because the others were mostly not Republicans.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:36 PM

Did you say Bush was seen over on a grassy knoll!

Holy Sh^t

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:34 PM

Well, have you seen the pictures of the bush on the grassy knoll?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:25 PM

was there a 2nd shooter though?
or at least 250 others who shot at the same time?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:24 PM

All us liberals who complained when Cheney went duck hunting with Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia must now have a change of heart in light of recent events.
                                           SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:20 PM

Funny that. Often at accident scenes when we can smell alcohol on the breaths of casualties, they too have always had just one beer. Interesting that, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:15 PM

"The local admin didn't even know it was required or they would have informed him when they WERE ASKED FOR ALL NECESSARY PERMITS!!! "

Interestingly enough gnu, that is not a defence in Australia - a fisherman went bankrupt when fined (large court costs when he fought it in court!), EVEN THOUGH HE HAD ASKED WHERE HE WAS ALLOWED TO FISH, as he wasn't given all the proper paperwork!

I agree with the 'innocent till proven guilty' thing - but Lindy Chamberlain was 'convicted by the media', and I doubt if any person on the jury had not had their opinion warped by the media.

However, Justice is supposed to be be blind to the status and wealth of a person - hah! - it seems that many people EXPECT that Cheney should be treated no different to any poor schmuck like you or I who finds himself in the same circumstances.

Recently, a famous Aussie sportsman backed over his own daughter in his own driveway - she recovered, and he was not charged with anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 07:01 PM

"Ummm, nope. Needed a quail stamp. Didn't have it."

But... he was licensed.... read the news!!! Sweet Jaysus... ere ye stunned? The stamp just came out. The local admin didn't even know it was required or they would have informed him when they WERE ASKED FOR ALL NECESSARY PRMITS!!! Good sufferin fuck!! I can't believe you said that.

"If you're of the opinion that saying "Go f*** yourself" to a Senator is a "sport"."

I have no idea what you meant by this. But... I am a Canuck. Unlike you Yanks, when someone needs to be told to go FUCK THEMSELVES, we do... and we follow up. You and Dick work that one out.

"Why? Would he have shot Kennedy? I think you missed the prior poster's point. (hint: he was helping Cheney's case a bit by the comparison)"

Gee. You are so intelligent that you missed my point. I wish I could hold a candle to you. Seriously, I rather not. Try to catch my drift there, smartass.

"Your next paragraph is so long and so full of shit... I am paraphrasing here..."

... that is doesn't deserve a response.

"Gnu, I notice you're getting a bit testy here. Why?"

Why? Gee. That really makes me sad. I just cannot comprehend that so many people who seem to stand for "right" and "justice" and so on can be so bloodthirsty, can be so willing to convict a man with no proof, can judge a man guilty before the facts are known. And, it's not just Dick. It happens every day. What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Innocent until proven guilty. Am I wrong?

Read the thread on the guy who shot the raptor in England just recently. Same thing. People wanted to "punish" the man for things they could only assume he might have done. Sick puppies!

I just thank goodness that there is a British law system in effect and not mob rule or idiot rule where I am.

BTW... I am no fan of Dick, or Junior... not by a long shot.

Hehehehehe... hey... if ya can't laugh....

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:47 PM

From what I've heard the VP has said that he had a beer during lunch before they went out shooting in the afternoon. Is that common among quail hunters ? Would you feel entirely comfortable knowing that your hunting buddies had A beer at lunch ?

I'm not trying to be confrontational - but I am asking what is the common behavior among the guys you hunt with and how you feel about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:26 PM

Hunting 101 courses? You bet. I agree. I think that every single person who wants to go hunting or wants to voice their opinion on hunting should have to take the appropriate courses in order to be safe while hunting and to be safe while while voicing their opinions on hunting.

But, of course, that will never happen. To some people, apparently, it's a crock of shit. No matter what. It's all in vogue to have a popular opinion without knowledge and say it really loud so it sounds good. No matter what. Don't matter. It's just bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Arne
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:10 PM

gnu:

Cheney WAS licensed, ...

Ummm, nope. Needed a quail stamp. Didn't have it.

... Cheney WAS a sport,...

If you're of the opinion that saying "Go f*** yourself" to a Senator is a "sport".    ;-)

... Ted Kennedy was NOT present, ...

Why? Would he have shot Kennedy? I think you missed the prior poster's point. (hint: he was helping Cheney's case a bit by the comparison)

... and, of course, the resposibility remains with the shooter... UNLESS SOME IDIOT FUCKS UP AND WALKS INTO YOUR LINE OF FIRE!!!!

Ummmm, nope. You're responsible for making sure that what's in front of you is something you want to hit ... when you pull the trigger. That's the way it works. Bullets (and shot) move a whole lot faster than people can. Good example of this is deer hunting with a thirty ought: If you can't see where your bullet is going to end up through foliage, etc., you shouldn't be pulling the trigger. Lots of people ignore this, and lots of people get hurt because of this. Which is why my brother refuses to go out in rifle season rather than bow/shotgun season. But that's just prudence on his part; if he went in rifle season and someone shot him, it would still be their fault albeit his misfortune. IOW, just because you can't see clearly is NOT something that absolves you of responsibility (this WRT the "sun's in my eyes" cockamamie various Cheney apologist have tried to float). As for whether the guy "walked into [Cheney's] line of fire", guess we don't know that ... but it's irrelevant! Cheney's "line of fire" shouldn't have been at another person.

Gnu, I notice you're getting a bit testy here. Why?

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 06:09 PM

Minds me of the two brothers in Albert County, New Brunswick some years back. First morning of deer season (Virginia Whitetail), they separate and head in along a farm field (their own farm). A few minutes later, one calls to the other. Buddy walks out and plows the moose right in the chest. His brother was holding up a moose head from a poached moose (we won't say who poached the moose). Needless to say, how the hell do you charge one or the other with what?

But... I am sure some of you will be sure to hang one or the other.

Anyway, the insurance companies have kept it in court for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:48 PM

I happen to think there are two sides to this whole thing, and neither guy is right.

1) When ya hunt, it is good policy that your hunting buddies know where you are
2) You know where your hunting buddies are
3) You don't ever shoot at something you
      a) don't intend to kill
      b) aren't sure is something you want to kill

4) Don't just jump up and say, "SURPRISE"

I think the friggin' lot of them need some serious 'Hunting, 101' courses and I am of the opinion none of them should be allowed out without their mothers.

The guy that got shot was reckless; the guy that shot him was reckless.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:42 PM

Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! He sure did!! Picked a piss poor huntin buddy, dinnit'e? Ah, well. It could happen to anyone. I ever tell ya about the time I met with this here fellah what was huntin with us what had the safety on his 303 off?

Be damned if this here fellah was all shook up when I arrived. Told me about a deer feedin in a meadow 175 out. I asked him why he didn't take it. He asked if the 303 would reach that far!!! That's when I noticed his safety was off. I asked him if he was still all shook up. When he answered no, I asked him why his safety was off. He replied that is was on... my cousin had lent him the rifle and told him forward was safe.

I asked for the gun. He obliged. I pulled the safety back, placed the gun on the toe of my boot, curled my toes back (I ain't stunned altogether) and pulled the trigger. Nothin. I put the safety forward, offered the gun to him and said, "Your turn." He thought better of it! He's a good huntin buddy now. Still can't hit the broad side of a barn, but that's fine, on accounta we don't hunt much, really. Been years since I actually used a gun fer huntin.

Only thing we really need guns for is the people that tell us we shouldn't have them. They scare me shitless.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:19 PM

Hi, Gnu. So, are you saying that Cheney fucked up?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:08 PM

AHa!!! Found it! Finally! Had another PM. Go figure. Well... had a bunch, but, mostlu from assholes. You know how it is. But, this one was from someone I respect, so even though I asked for "no more", I will respond to

"Accidents happen, but .... I've spent 1000s of hours (literally) bird hunting and have never shot anyone , been shot or, for that matter, ever knew anyone that was. Regardless, if it's an accident it means it was a mistake and I can live with that. However, the resonsibility remains with the shooter. Part of field hunting etiquette requires that you know where your companions are. Another part means respecting the working dogs and shooting that low is questionable. Plus, good ethics require that you're properly licensed. It looks to me that Mr Cheney ain't quite the sport that the media reports. My biggest complaint is that it appears that he tried to pull a Ted Kennedy."

The PM'er wanted to know why I replied to his post by saying, "Bullshit."

At the time of these posts, Cheney WAS licensed, Cheney WAS a sport, Ted Kennedy was NOT present, and, of course, the resposibility remains with the shooter... UNLESS SOME IDIOT FUCKS UP AND WALKS INTO YOUR LINE OF FIRE!!!!

WHAT THE SWEET FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE NOT FUCKIN GET????

This is sunset time... for good. This is just too fucking unreal for me. A bunch of people who have no idea of what took place and have every idea that to hang an innocent man is a good idea. Mark my words... it's people like you who deserve DICK!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 05:01 PM

One of those news programs has been hashing this over, and one of the reporters said Cheney has and has had a drinking problem.

The jokes should stop. If the man dies that will be the real tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 04:03 PM

Funny, isn't it, how fat boy can stand up and tell the world how bad he feels about damaging a single, aged, white Republican lawyer; but the fact that he has grimly and blindly pursued the slaughter of scores of beautiful women and children, and the wholesale production of widows and orphans, and the ruination of hndreds of American families through loss or dementia...why that's all right, isn't it? Why, he was jes' doing his job and following orders, wasn't he?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Feb 06 - 03:57 PM

the thing about shooting is the trousers. you get to wear those pants that you stick in your boots - I bet you feel like Patton smooching round in those.

photo opportunity gone wrong.

they're lucky it wasn't a massacre.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:39 PM

That's a great idea, gnu. I'm making one of those T-shirts for myself ASAP.

Too bad I'll have to wait until spring to wear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:27 PM

From the Mangled Lyrics Thread

when you feed something thru the Google translator a few times..

OH -, Lawd, Cheney, Bam-Ba-Lamm (2x)
Cheney huntin ' went thick thick, the Bam-Ba-Lamb (2x),
him einsackte a lawyer, Bam-Ba-Lamb (2x),
but it is not not dying yet......,
Where' D thick Cheney which germinate you?

which I think is even closer to the truth (given the 4 letter word substitute for 'germinate') (thick thick - ROFL)

(Incidentally, the French apparently have no Dick...)

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:56 AM

conservatives never have been straight shooters, just lying bastards

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 11:28 AM

20:52AM post = cynical satire or the actual rhetoric behind closed republican doors.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:52 AM

Ebbie, yeah I too noticed Dick's vicarious thrill turn real.

..........................
George W said Dick and I have made the ultimate sacrifice in losing our privacy during this campaign.
He has a point.
Cheney is entitled to his privacy in this time of war.

THIS WAS just a private shooting among friends.
Its nobody elses business.
Just like if I shot you in the eye at a carnival.
When you bought a ticket you assumed the risk.
Besides its your fault for being in the way of my pellet.
The last thing we need is a frivilous lawsuit when its your fault for getting peppered, salted, or even highly seasoned.

THE ONLY SAD PART is that after they took this guy to the remote and tiny clinic in Mayville over rough country roads, instead of a real hospital in Corpus Christy over super highways or even a helicopter AND THEN STUPIDLY went public anyway the next day.

-I bet someone at the tiny clinic called the sheriff and screwed up the whole cover up!!! blabber mouth bastards were probably democrats.-

It all could have remained under the radar in a small clinic in the boondocks, but noooo... someone decided to get a family member of Cheney's lobbiest at the local Gazette involved.

BIG MISTAKE

They may have well gone to the closer big hospital in the first place if they were going to go public.
Someone dropped the ball and it may have been Karl Rove.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:51 AM

Now the right wingers are saying that the 28 guage shotgun is like a bb gun. What kind of idiot would make such a statement? Is it wishful thinking or stupidity?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:47 AM

Good luck to the man shot. This will be a better outcome than the 12 year old boy who was shot by his Father while hunting in the Midwest last season. He died.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:45 AM

Vice president Aaron Burr ruined his career by shooting Alexander Hamilton. Let's hope history repeats itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:31 AM

Just occurred to me- finally Cheney got to know what it's like to be in combat- hey, the other man was armed too, wasn't he?

Bless his heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:24 AM

Alfred E Newman: "What, me worry?" No, Cheney isn't worried.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 10:21 AM

I don't think anyone suggested that if the man should die it could be construed as murder. On the other hand, many a person has been charged with and convicted of manslaughter and even negligent homicide, even when the felon had no such thought as to the outcome of his action.

I hope the man lives (I know- big of me) but I dearly hope that Cheney is a worried man.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 09:12 AM

Jon Stewart's Daily Show was absolutely ruthless with this football -- they had me rolling on the floor laughing.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 08:57 AM

All of you are missing the point.   The real question is whether the quail represented a "clear and present" danger to the United States.

Clearly, Cheney didn't have the proper stamp to hunt birds.   Again, the real question nobody is asking- Did he have the proper stamp to hunt lawyers?   If so, what is the problem?

Just remember- Guns don't shoot people- Vice Presidents do.

Now, If we only send Cheney on a "turkey" hunting trip to the Senate there would be about 45 more vacancies.

PS:   This is the first time I can remember that this forum stook up for the rights of a lawyer.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 08:38 AM

There is no way this can be spun into murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 08:04 AM

I can just see it now... "I went hunting with Dick and all I got was this lousy tee shirt." Appropriately covered with holes and red splotches.

Money in the bank.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,Dewey
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:24 AM

Dianavan, Is your desire for a manslaughter conviction, because you do not like Mr. Cheney as a person? and/or the Republican Leadership specifically?

A conviction against the Vice President for murder is highly unlikely.

On the flip side, however, there is no such thing as a "Private Shooting Among Friends"

The public had a right to know about this incident and preferrably the VP should have issued a statement in his own behalf immediately and forerightly. Politically, it was a dumb move to limit knowledge of the incident to a few Good Ole Boys on the Farm.

Dewey

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:57 AM

Oh, Lawd, Dick Cheney, Bam-ba-lamb (2x)
Dick Cheney went a huntin', Bam-ba-lamb(2x)
Bagged himslef a lawyer, Bam-ba-lamb(2x)
But he hasn't died yet......
Dick Cheney where'd you shoot from?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:04 AM

Just read this in a press release -

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals said it has sent a letter to the chairman of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission urging that Cheney's hunting license be revoked.

Can't make 'em up better than that!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 01:47 AM

marks - I don't think its an easy way out especially if the man dies 'of complications'.

I don't want the geezer to die but I would like to see Cheney due some time for manslaughter.

Now that would be karma.

Maybe there is a Goddess.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 11:52 PM

Call me conspiratorial but - I have thought for some time Cheney would not serve out his term. Has a history of heart health problems, and ethical problems as well.

Now the plan.

Cheney resigns citing emotional distress piled on top of all the rest of his problems.

Dubya then names Condoleeza Rice as VP to serve the remainder of his term. Makes sense, Secretary of State might be a natural to move up.

Comes the 2008 election, and Condi now gets the nod as the Republican presidential nominee to run against whoever the Dems agree on. (Hillary for a guess.)

Mind you I do not think this is a plot, just a way for Cheney to resign with sympathy. Its an easy way out.

Comments?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 11:45 PM

Thanks for the link, Amos.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 10:55 PM

I still can't get over that after shooting this guy there had to be blood all over the place, the poor guy must have screamed himself hoarse, it must have been mightily unpleasant, yet as soon as the med team whisks the guy off to the hospital, these people sit down to eat!!!

And after the guy is shot, this Armstrong woman blames it on him! These must be some really swell, compassionate folk. "We're not going to accompany you to the hospital because we're all so hungry that not even your disgusting bloodied features and the shock of being cause because I accidentally shot you in the face and chest can keep us from the table but keep us posted on the phone while we eat."

Jesus, if that doesn't demonstrate the coldness of people like Cheney and his friends what does? Armstrong even stated that Cheney was "cool" while waiting for his medical team to arrive. Yeah, he was cool--I'll bet he was ice-cold in fact. Ever see this guy trying to smile?? Jesus, it's like it takes every ounce of his will to accomplish what must obviously be a very difficult task for him. It's enough to chill John Gotti's blood. I've never seen anyone manage to look so hopelessly constipated. You wonder how he sends your kids off to die in his useless quagmire of a war that was born of his quest to expand executive power to that of emperor? Look at that smile. That's how.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 09:55 PM

So far everyone here has made good points. But I have TWO QUESTIONS THAT NO ONE HAS ASKED...

1 With Cheney's personal medical team with him at the hunting party, why did they transport the victim over many miles of unimproved ranch roads to a TINY VILLAGE CLINIC (Mayville?) instead of going to the closer and larger hospitals in Corpus Cristy over super highways, or even call in a helicopter with all of the state of the art communication systems that can start a nuclear war.

2 We have all heard the downplay rhetoric by Cheney's lobbiest regarding peppering and it all being the victims fault for not announcing himself and those silly superficial wounds and joking with nurses etc
The man was in INTENSIVE CARE for two days and now back in INTENSIVE CARE again.
SO maybe there has been a touch of spin to soften the go fuck yourself edges of Dick Cheney. What I would like to know is WHERE IS LYNN CHENEY. Dick Cheney's wife is incommunicado. Is she missing? Is she also at an undisclosed location or is she at her Bethesda address down the road from me?

Again why did they take this old guy to podunk central for treatment
and where is Lynn Cheney? Where is Dick for that matter.




Senator Alan Simpson said today sic "its all the media's fault for making a mountain out of a mole hill and that the big papers are jealous of the Texas Gazzette". He says the unwashed people aren't concerned about White House communications but rather a media that is heartless and out of control. "The media makes me SICK"

bad spin Al. Even a dog knows when it has been kicked on purpose or accidentally.

Like Rita Cosby's ass, there is no getting around it, WE SMELL A COVER UP GONE BAD.

Chris Matthews said to Bill Mahre " The Cheney people didn't call the WHite house for a day or even the police, there seemed to be little concern for anyone but Cheney...
Bill Mahre: Yeah Chris, You'd think it was a Hurricane.

now how should I illustrate the real chain of events hmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 09:24 PM

Who knows ... a 78 year old male with a pellet stuck to his heart is pretty close to knocking on heaven's door.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 09:22 PM

If it had been buckshot, the man would be dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 09:16 PM

Donuel-

Ms. Rice may not appreciate your artwork (but I do).

Be sure you lock your doors securely this evening.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: SharonA
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:59 PM

According to Forbes' timeline, the hunting party had taken a lunch break before the incident occurred, so perhaps they'd been drinking. But with Cheney's heart condition, would HE have been drinking??

A lot of the details we're being given don't add up for me...

How is it that, at 30 yards and clothed in hunting gear which should have included an orange vest or jacket plus chilly-weather gear, Ol' Harry could have been peppered with buckshot in the upper chest at such a deep level that it was not removed and either entered his heart or later moved there through the bloodstream to cause his heart attack today?

Harry is reported to have said he would not release a statement about the incident out of respect for Cheney, but since the statement released to the press blamed Harry for being in the wrong place without announcing himself, why would he not release a "mea culpa" statement out of "respect" for Cheney? (I suspect that he was told not to say anything because, under medication, he could have said something -- like the truth -- that would have contradicted the ranch owner's statement to the local press in Corpus Christi.)

Where was Dubya when all this was happening? We're told Andy Card and Karl Rove talked to him an hour to an hour and a half after the shooting, and I guess we're supposed to believe that, but I can't help wondering... was Bush actually a member of this hunting party? Was Bush actually the shooter?

Why was the White House press secretary not told of the shooting till 6:00 a.m. the next day? Why was the first statement made by the ranch owner, Katharine Armstrong, to her good buddy the reporter in Corpus Christi at noon Sunday, instead of by the press secretary to the AP and other national and international reporters on Saturday evening? Why did the statement mention "the Vice President" over and over without mentioning Cheney's name -- was Armstrong afraid she would slip and say "Bush" instead of "Cheney"?

Lots of other details about the timeline fail to add up, too, Something definitely smells here, and it ain't gunpowder.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 07:02 PM

The possibility exists that the reason that there was a significant lag between the incident and its being reported was to ensure that all traces of any alcohol were gone. There is no longer any possibility of metering any alcohol use but I think it's pertinent to ask whether the hunters had been drinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:09 PM

Well, enough. I think that Cheney violated one of the Big Ten rules of safe shooting and that there is responsibility on both sides.

As for shooting at lawyers -- try it. My wife, an attorney, can outshoot me and I'm a fair-to-middlin' shot with pistol, rifle, and shotgun. The first weapon she ever fired was a .45 Colt's revolver and she still has it.

So much for this thread and me. Ta-ta.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:58 PM

Not that Cheney has the temperement to start yelling at people to go fuck themselves, but we should trust the inate feelings of children and how they react to him.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/cheneybird.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: CET
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:52 PM

The "no excuses" line was what first came to my mind. I'm not a hunter, but I've fired on rifle and pistol ranges many times, and I know that you don't fire except at a properly identified target.

However, after reading everything above I find that I can't entirely buy the anti-Cheney line.

Yes, you have to identify your target and know what is behind it before you shoot. That's why there can never be an excuse for shooting your hunting buddy because you thought you were shooting at a moose. From what gnu says, quail shooting is different. There doesn't seem to be any reason to believe that Mr. Cheney did not identify a quail, or that he was shooting outside of his assigned field of fire. The suggestion is that his hunting partner moved into his zone, without announcing himself. If he was screened by brush or tall grass, he might not have been visible even if he was wearing an orange vest. I believe I read in a newspaper today that the victim was actually hidden.

Shooting too low is of more concern. Obviously, if Mr. Cheney had fired at the correct angle the pellets should have gone right over the other man's head. Still, that seems less reprehensible to me than just blasting away without knowing where you are shooting.

I would also be interested in knowing whether Mr. Cheney had been regularly checking the position of the other hunter, and when was the last time he had checked his position before firing the shot. The answers to those questions would make some difference in assessing his degree of culpability. Unlike some of the people who have posted so far, I don't feel confident in opining about Mr. Cheney without knowing the answers.

One more point. In Texas, to the best of my knowledge, the presumption of innocence still applies. It would be for the prosecution to prove him guilty in a court of law, not for him to prove the opposite.

Finally, if I never hear another witless crack about lawyers from some undereducated jerk, that will be just fine, thank you very much. Guest: the next time you get wrongly charged, my guess is that you will be the first one looking for a good defence counsel who will go toe to toe with the prosecution on your behalf. And if you get convicted, I hope you find an appellate lawyer who will sweat blood for you. So all in all: FOAD!

There. I feel ever so much better now.

CET

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:51 PM

Maybe Dick forgot to put in his contact lenses that day ... did anyone give that a thought.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:49 PM

IF he was close enough to have birdshot penetrate his heart, he was damn sure close enough for Cheney to see that there was no way a quail could be between them!

Liars, cowards and now assholes. What a team!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:49 PM

Cheney want you to laugh. They waited to get all the stories straight (for national security reasons) and blame the victim from the get go.

So keep laughing and maybe we will all laugh off that Dick won't even be chared with 3rd degree manslaughter when Wittington dies...after all he is a very old man.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:44 PM

The Post offers a survey of some scathing analyses by various papers raising telling questions about Cheny's ignoral of advice about releasing the story (20 hours later) and about his starchy and uncooperative attitude toward the press and public, given his public profile as the 2d-in-Command of our national marching orders... ;>)


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Severn
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:34 PM

Here's a cut and paste update. Having delivered some cheap shots and low blows myself earlier, I might as well bring this thread up to date on the latest info on the actual situation of Mr. Whittington. I'm laughing a little less now....


Updated 2:42 PM ET February 14, 2006

The 78-year-old lawyer who was shot by Vice President Dick Cheney in a hunting accident has some birdshot lodged in his heart and he had a "minor heart attack," a hospital official said Tuesday.

Peter Banko, the hospital administrator at Christus Spohn Hospital Corpus Christi-Memorial, said Harry Whittington had the heart attack early Tuesday while being evaluated.

He said there was an irregularity in the heartbeat caused by a birdshot pellet, and doctors performed a cardiac catheterization. Whittington expressed a desire to leave the hospital, but Banko said he would probably stay for another week.

Whittington, a prominent Republican attorney from Austin, was accidentally sprayed with shotgun pellets when Cheney was aiming for a quail Saturday.

Whittington had initially been placed in intensive care. He had been moved to a "step-down unit" Monday after doctors decided to leave several birdshot pellets lodged in his skin rather than try to remove them.

A Texas Parks and Wildlife Department report said Whittington was retrieving a downed bird and stepped out of the hunting line he was sharing with Cheney. "Another covey was flushed and Cheney swung on a bird and fired, striking Whittington in the face, neck and chest at approximately 30 yards," the report said.

The wildlife department issued a report Monday that found the main factor contributing to the accident was a "hunter's judgment factor." No other secondary factors were found to have played a role.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:32 PM

Cheney travels with his own medical detail !?!
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/13863648.htm
Sounds expensive.

Severn, Yes we know but the way this forum is set up it is hard to see all the posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Severn
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:27 PM

Nobody seems to have brought up the fact yet that the victim of the shooting suffered a mild heart attack and irregular heartbeat from the pellets.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:15 PM

When the reports said that birdshot broke the skin, I guess I took it at face value; I figured he was hospitalized in an overkill of caution to be sure this didn't get even messier for Cheney than was inevitable. So it turns out the guy was damned lucky to not be stone dead at the scene; just one little pellet that happened to get to his heart. (It had already occured to me how easily he could have been blinded.) I seriously suspect that, had he fallen dead on the spot, Cheney would have made every effort to see that it was reported as a chance death by heart attack while hunting.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnomad
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:11 PM

Thanks to Gnu. I keep learning stuff here.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:09 PM

You have a way with words.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:08 PM

In the movie Master and Commander the doctor mindlessly wandered into harms way while another officer was shooting at a bird.
Clearly its an accident and the military rules aboard the ship did not hold the shooter liable in any way.

That Cheney is not held liable or even made available for in person questioning by the police is unlawful... unless you buy the argument anything goes in time of war.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:08 PM

I can't help but get the feeling (and I've had it for some time now) that the current administration is made up of a collection of monumental stumble-bums.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:52 PM

Cheney is by-God the fu#kin' Vice President of the United States of America and he can do as he damned well pleases. Has been for six years anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:50 PM

He was not properly permitted either. What do you say to that dougr?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:39 PM

I've done a substantial amount of shooting, so I'm not speaking from lack of experience. There are a number of PRIMARY principles involved when firearms are involved, all important, none secondary. One of those primary principles is know exactly what your target IS before you shoot. Another is know what is BEHIND your target before you shoot.

No excuses!

Don Firth

P. S. A little crow for dinner tonight, Doug?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:11 PM

I said it was sunset time. However, since sunset, I have had more than a few PMs. Most have asked, more or less, "... when and where is it okay to not be sure of your target?" So... I am submitting this post in response to the PMs. I will not respond to any more PMs on this subject and I hope never to post here again.

"When and where...?" Never and nowhere. Not only that, but you must be aware of what is, and what may be, beyond your target.

From what I have read so far, accounts by several witnesses all indicate that Cheney followed proper safety procedures. Unfortunately, many posters here have either chose to overlook this fact or do not understand these procedures.

Okay. Just the basic, pertinent rules. (BTW, I do not participate in this type of hunting, for my own personal reasons.) In this type of hunting, hunters space themselves an agreed distance apart and move forward, slowly, at the same pace, an agreed distance, then stopping and checking the movement of the hunters on his left and right. Most hunters check movement of the others every few feet. As well, all stop when game is flushed, or for any other reason which may arise.   Each hunter has an agreed field of fire in which he may shoot. Noone may move forward until all agree. All must move forward as agreed. If any hunter decides not to continue, he must signal and retreat to a safe distance. The line is reformed. If a hunter wishes to join a line, he must signal and be acknowledged by all before moving up to the line. Any hunter joining the line must take the place of the furthest left or the furthest right hunter and the replaced hunter moves to remain in an end position. Once at the line, the hunter joining the line may load his weapon.

Now, the end position field of fire. Let's use the left end, facing due north. The field of fire of the left end extends from the agreed east angle, to southwest. So, if you ever decide to sneak up on a line, don't go near the ends.

There's a bit more than that to it. And, of course, there's a heck of a lot more to gun safety. But, I hope these basics give some of you an idea of what MAY have gone wrong.

As far as expecting someone to know you are moving into their field of fire, or even into their range of fire, from behind... well, it's obvious the guy should have signalled. That's why there are procedures. It really is just that simple.

Now, as far as anyone coming up with things like, say, "What if there was a deaf, dumb, blind man in full camouflage running around at top speed on a private ranch...", don't bother. I just hope the quail were tasty and that they saved a bite for the old fella that got shot... by accident.

And, seriously, no more PMs, please. Read the news releases.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:04 PM

All the "pepper" phrases coming from the loyal local republican reporter that Cheney first contacted are going to come back to haunt her and rub salt in the wounds. (she was chosen to break the story because of her republican family ties) She went on to say that she had been peppered before. When questioned further about her peppering she admitted her peppering had not actually broken the skin.

The man was shot in the heart and face for Christs sake.

thats why I did http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/headlines.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:55 PM

Story here.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:43 PM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/headlines.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bert
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:46 PM

If the truth be known, he did it on purpose to detract our attentions from the recent cartoons of Mohammed.

Whoops Doug You laid yourself wide open for that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:41 PM

Cheney's victom just had a heart attack from the bird shot in his heart.

This could turn into manslaughter

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:18 PM

A dove hunter. Can't say it surprises me to hear that, Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: DougR
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 12:29 PM

Big deal. I've been peppered myself while dove hunting by a over eager hunter. It's not an uncommon occurance and a non-story for the press.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 12:04 PM

They find the shooting of another human being AMUSING? Just what I'd expect from this bunch of fatuous, adolescent assholes.

-----------------

White House Finds Humor in Hunting Mishap

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 14 Feb 06

WASHINGTON - The White House has decided that the best way to deal with Vice President
Dick Cheney's shooting accident is to joke about it.

President Bush's spokesman quipped Tuesday that the burnt orange school colors of the University of Texas championship football team that was visiting the White House shouldn't be confused for hunter's safety wear...

The president's brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, took a similar jab after slapping an orange sticker on his chest... "I'm a little concerned that Dick Cheney is going to walk in," the governor cracked during an appearance in Tampa Monday...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060214/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 12:04 PM

wasnt this some kind of canned hunt anyway, where they DRIVE up to a spot, the quail are flushed out and you start blasting from 3 feet away?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 11:28 AM

According to the AP this morning, the Texas Fish & Game people say that they are only issuing warnings about the $7 stamp because the program is only five months old. Also, Cheney's office says that he had a licesnse for which he paid $125 -- the out-of-state cost in Texas. His office also says that Cheney was unaware of the need for the stamp.

Apparently the Secret Service didn't let the first Deputy Sheriff in to interview Cheney, even though it had been previously cleared. The guy was allowed in later; "miscommunication" was blamed.

Gee, I was always try to keep up with the hunting regs in the state where I'm going to hunt.

Peace, you could handload your own shells and fire off an incendiary and then one loaded with barbecue sauce. Shoot 'em, clean 'em, skin 'em, cook 'em, and season 'em all from a distance....

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 11:17 AM

Bill D. as mentioned in a preveious post, Dick's getting off with a warning for not having a the $7.00 permit (unless minds have changed since last nite) ... executive priviledge I presume.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 10:32 AM

Kill it, skin it and clean it all in one shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 09:31 AM

the news said he was using a "28 gauge" shotgun, which is about the smallest going...and why there was only minimal damage to the victim.

But the news ALSO said he had failed to buy a hunting licence for this trip! That alone will cost him....

There are many, many guessing that they all waited to report this until the next morning, so that any traces of alcohol would be gone...but that, of course, is just speculation so far.

(The old lawyer will no doubt take the 'blame' for not announcing his position...which STILL does not absolve WMDick for his basic errors!)

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:27 AM

Donuel:

I have to confess that line was coined by some other wag and reported in a news story about all the fun comedians are having at The Dick's expense.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:00 AM

Billy, you hunt birds with "Buck shot"? is there anything left of them?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:00 AM

On last night's news they were making a big issue outta why the White House didn't make the announcement earlier but as far as I'm concerned that dog don't hunt... Like who cares when they told us??? It ain't like a national security issue, is it???

But from reading the posts here this morning about the carelessness on Cheney's part I keep thinking about Iraq and just how similar the two are... There seems to be an nasty little evil streak in this man who shoots first and asks questions later...

It will be nice when the United Sates has him in the rear view mirror where he can do no more harm...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 07:55 AM

Here's a link to front page dailykos dairy on this subject:
It's the Metaphor, Stupid!: Cheney story bigger than you think
by thereisnospoon {Mon Feb 13, 2006}

And here's one post from that dairy:

"It's closer than metaphor with Cheney.

It's evidence of character.

Incompetent, bloodthirsty, irresponsible, reckless, degenerate, cloistered and evasive.

But, yes, a metaphor for the Bush administration"
-by howth of murph on Mon Feb 13, 2006

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 07:49 AM

Do you think he ever goes out hunting along with Bush?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 07:32 AM

Thanks Amos, you came closest to answering my questions.
Usually when I ask for cartooning advice the mudcat is about as personally interactive as watching TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:14 AM

"Death Blossom"

Hey, wasn't that the BFG-Trick in 'Last Starfighter'?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:00 AM

BE vewwwwy quiet....I'm hunting Iwaqis....


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:28 AM

Thanks, Billy, for that info. I was wondering about that. So not only is he careless, he's also a poor sport.

Birdshot is not funny. Whittington be living with that lead under his skin for the rest of his life

I'm sure Cheney has had to pay alot of money for that little mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 02:28 AM

Someone must have told him they were running out of soldiers in Iraq so he had to kill somebody! Fortunately he screwed that up too.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 01:19 AM

As a scot who has been a "beater" (a person hired to drive pheasant and grouse out of the woods and moors toward the guns) I was innumerably rained with buckshot from the drunken assholes who sat in the hides waiting for the birds. That ain't hunting. And what Chaney does ain't "hunting" either.
   I should make clear that I am against this "sport".
   That he was able to hit the chest and face of his partner meant that he was shooting low and not attempting to take the birds fairly "on the rise" as propper bird hunting calls for.
   Shooting birds requires that you lead the shot so that the bird and the buckshot arrive at the same time. That angle is about 35 to 45 degees.
   So how did Dick manage to hit someone at a less than 5 deree elevation?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 11:13 PM

I'm sure President Cheney would explain that, if you're going to hunt with him you'll just have to accept a certain amount of collateral damage.

Kinda like civilians in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 10:07 PM

All in all, accidents can happen to anyone. No one is immune

And hunting sucks.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 09:35 PM

well, no matter how how all plays out, or who gets the blame, the humorists are having a field day! Saw video of cartoonist Mike Lucovitch doing a cartoon in which Cheney is aiming and saying:

"I want to make tomorrow easy for the cartoonists---hold still!"

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:50 PM

>>Tempted though I am, I have to say incorporating -- even for someone with as much blood on his hands as Cheney -- is a very bad idea.<<

It not only is not a bad idea, it's how it is. If you shoot someone--regardless of why--you're going to be arrested and charged. That doesn't mean you will be found guilty but there will be a trial or at least a hearing. When one person shoots another, it is a very bad idea to assume it was an accident. If it was, let him prove it, let the evidence show it. But he can't be allowed to simply walk away from it.

It's like traffic court--you're guilty until you prove your innocence. It couldn't work any other way. I shouldn't have said an assumption of guilt. I should have said a presumption of guilt. If you shoot someone, you must prove you weren't being an asshole. Foul play or negligence must be presumed and you must prove it is not so.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bert
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:49 PM

Yer right Katmeluv, he never did make any sense. That quote is precious.

Actually Friendy Fire is a thing that Americans are noted for.

I worked with a guy who served in the Eighth Army in Italy. He claimed that if the Jerries came over they didn't take much notice, but if it was the Yanks everybody rushed for cover.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:40 PM

The "general concensus"? An "assumption of guilt"? That's it. Sunset time for me. I require some logic... or knowledge... or experience... or some semblence of reason. I find none here.

Hang em high!

And, whistle when you get near me. So's I can get a good bead on ya.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:39 PM

Goes to show that Repub VPs are getting more effective. Ford only hit people with tennis balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:38 PM

That "friendly fire" is a bitch, ain't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:33 PM

gnu, you're making a lot of assumptions as to whether those of us who have posted have been trained in gun safety or not.

Growing up in the West, learning how to use a gun SAFELY was commonplace when I was a kid. Even then, idiots would come out for hunting season and shoot mules/horses/etc. "by mistake" one of which was decked out completely in orange. Now, it still happens, though it seems they shoot each other more than other critters, which is fine with me.

Bertdarlin'...wouldn't make any difference if he DID know how to use a mic, he still doesn't make any sense:

Bush Explains Medicare Drug Bill

Verbatim Quote

WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: "I don't really understand. How is the new plan
going to fix the problem?"


PRESIDENT BUSH: (Verbatim response)

"Because the -- all which is on the table begins to address the big
cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculated, for example,
is on the table. Whether or not benefits rise based upon wage
increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the
formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those
different cost drivers, affecting those -- changing those with
personal accounts, the idea is to get what has been promised more
likely to be -- or closer delivered to that has been promised. Does
that make any sense to you? It's kind of muddled. Look, there's a
series of things that cause the -- like, for example, benefits are
calculated based upon the increase of wages, as opposed to the
increase of prices. Some have suggested that we calculate -- the
benefits will rise based upon inflation, supposed to wage increases.
There is a reform that would help solve the red if that were put
into effect. In other words, how fast benefits grow, how fast the
promised benefits grow, if those -- if that growth is affected, it
will help on the red."

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:29 PM

Their has to be an assumption of guilt on the part of the shooter.

While I have no doubt about Dickie-wad's guilt in general, I'm afraid the assumption of guilt as a first premise s not used in this country, for good andsufficient reason. Tempted though I am, I have to say incorporating -- even for someone with as much blood on his hands as Cheney -- is a very bad idea.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:20 PM

Dick "Death Blossom" Cheney.

I just read that term this morning--death blossom. It apparently refers to the tendency of Iraqi soldiers in combat to simply begin simultaneously shooting in every direction--friends, enemies, bystanders, nobody, anybody--simply shooting non-discriminately in every direction at once.

Ol Death Blossom Dick!

Someone ought to make up a Western wanted poster.

Anyway, I believe the general consensus here is that the shooter is ultimately responsible. After all, someone could shoot you and claim you stepped in their line of sight. Their has to be an assumption of guilt on the part of the shooter. Otherwise no tellin what some yay hoo might do if'n he feelin ornery.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:11 PM

Yes, we do. The one with the microphone could quack like a duck and the one with the shotgun . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:11 PM

And, of course, there were no automobile accidents or any other "accidents" in the world today. Jaysus... youse are twits.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bert
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:06 PM

We have a Vice President who can't use a gun properly and a President
who can't use a microphone.

We don't stand a bloody chance!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:04 PM

Bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: leftydee
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:56 PM

Accidents happen, but .... I've spent 1000s of hours (literally) bird hunting and have never shot anyone , been shot or, for that matter, ever knew anyone that was. Regardless, if it's an accident it means it was a mistake and I can live with that. However, the resonsibility remains with the shooter. Part of field hunting etiquette requires that you know where your companions are. Another part means respecting the working dogs and shooting that low is questionable. Plus, good ethics require that you're properly licensed. It looks to me that Mr Cheney ain't quite the sport that the media reports. My biggest complaint is that it appears that he tried to pull a Ted Kennedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:49 PM

Maybe he forgot it was quail they were after, and thought it was turkey season?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:45 PM

Latest update on shoot 'em down Dick ... he was hunting illegely, as he did not have his $7.00 permit ... but don't fret my amigos, he gets off on a warning.

If anyone hears that he is coming up to New Brusnwick (Canada) on a hunting trip will you please warn me.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:22 PM

Well, well, then. Lets listen to people with gun training and experience in the field:


Cheney Violates Cardinal Rule of Hunting
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON -

Vice President Dick Cheney apparently broke the No. 1 rule of hunting: be sure of what you're shooting at. Cheney wounded fellow hunter Harry Whittington in the face, neck and chest Saturday, apparently because he didn't see Whittington approaching as he fired on a covey of quail in Texas.

Hunting safety experts interviewed Monday agreed it would have been a good idea for Whittington to announce himself — something he apparently didn't do, according to a witness. But they stressed that the shooter is responsible for knowing his surroundings and avoiding hitting other people.

"We always stress to anybody that before you make any kind of a shot, it's incumbent upon the shooter to assess the situation and make sure it's a safe shot," said Mark Birkhauser, president-elect of the International Hunter Education Association and hunter education coordinator in New Mexico. "Once you squeeze that trigger, you can't bring that shot back."

Duane Harvey, president of the Wisconsin Hunter Education Instructors Association, said if Whittington had made his presence known "that would have been a polite thing to do." But, he added, "it's still the fault upon the shooter to identify his target and what is beyond it."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:22 PM

Don't use a shotgun worth a damn. Shoot open sight or scope with both eyes open. Have done so for 45 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:20 PM

I thought you did not use a shotgun, Peace. You shoot rifle sights with both eyes open? Scope?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:15 PM

When I hunt (or shoot targets), I keep both eyes open. Took me some gettin' used to when I was twelve or thirteen, but it's become a life-long habit. Increases my field of vision by 100% from 90 degrees to 180 degrees.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:10 PM

Well, well, well. Listen to all the people with no gun training and no experience in the field. And, even some that think they do. I sincerely hope none of you ever come near me with a weapon in hand. You lot would scare the shit out of me.

As for making sure of your target and all... nope. Don't cut the grass in this type of hunting. Proper procedure does. That's why there is a proper procedure. Hope this is a lesson to everyone. Especially those who are so bent on hanging Dick. Because, if you do not understand the cause of this accident, you have not been properly trained and should have your weapons taken away from you until you have been properly trained.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:49 PM

He was obviously shooting with one eye closed. (I am bein' nice when I say that.)

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:47 PM

So he shot 'em in the face. So what if the guy's a birdbrain.

A covey of quais, umm. Sounds like trying hook fish in a barrel. NRA should've given him a course in safety first, then a fishing rod.

I'd invite him up here to hunt on my 1/3 acre, except I'm afraid for the dog. Truthfully I'm also afraid that he'll be mauled by the neighbor's cat. It's a really big cat. A Maine Coon Cat. They grow big ya know. Maybe top 15 lbs easily & very effecent mousers. Dick would become a renown hunter if he bagged it. On the other hand if he just winged it & then got head all clawed up how would that look?

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:23 PM

It behooves anyone approaching anyone with a gun to let their presence be known in some audible way -- just wearing bright orange won't cut it. Yes, the greatest fault is the shooter's: "Be sure of your target" is one of the Commandments ground into the soul of every ethical shooter. But BOTH sides have to take some responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Shogun Cheney
From: Severn
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:18 PM

Speaking of negligent hunting, word is that Dick Cheney is already signed up to star in a sequel to that Bobby Knight TV biopic based on the John Jr. Feinstien book. This one's entitled "A Hunting Season On The Brink"....

I'm sure he'll get plenty of Bobby Knight jokes, but what this all really does is make me understand the whole Pat Tillman situation a while back a little better....

I'm sure this case will go straight to A Pellet court....

Will Cheney become a chainee?....

To paraphrase Smokey,
"Remember, only YOU can prevent Friendly Fires!"....

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:16 PM

The shooter is always the responsible party. It's like a rear end collision--if you did the rear-ending, it's your fault. Cheney is responsible not the victim.

Hopefully, the press will blow this into some more bad publicity for this administration who are still even now far more buoyant than they should be. If huge issues as Iraq, intelligence failures and the failure to promptly react to huge disasters aren't enough to convince the idiots who still support these creeps to cut these guys loose, maybe some idiotic hunting scandal will finally do it--something people of that level can finally understand and relate to.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:04 PM

I agree with gnu. It was stupid and avoidable act of carelessness on both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 06:01 PM

I was taught never to fire at anything I couldn't positively identify, so how does the fact that the target crept up on him justify what happened?

Just think tho' of the trouble he could have saved the USA if he had reversed the gun before firing......another lost opportunity.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:56 PM

Gnu - the man who was shot was wearing a bright orange hunting vest. You rarely see quail dressed like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:50 PM

Well, well, well. Listen to all the people with no gun training. Pffft! I have hunted Ruffed Grouse in heavy bush at close quarters. Never shot anyone. On accounta noone ever snuck up on me within range. It was simply an accident that should not have happened. And, it would not have happened if the lad had followed proper procedure and signaled Cheney of his approach. Case closed. Move on. Nothing to see here, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:39 PM

He were a proud, potatoe-lovin' Republican & not QUITE as fatuous & moronic as Dumbya.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:22 PM

Bee-dubya-ell, I hope you didn't mean that Dan Quayle was a Democrat!??

Hell, Quayle was so forgetable that I briefly forgot whose VP he was.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:59 PM

cartoon ideas: which should I do?

Quail #1: OK tell me the plan once again
Quail #2: I get Dick's attention and then you fly in front of George.

Cheney staffer: You know there comes a time when you get jaded to a vicarious thrill and you need to do the real thing.

Elmer Fudd (looks like Cheney) Ware is dat wascally lawyer?

Headlines: Cheney accidentally shoots lawyer...Bush accidentally stabs Shehan... Rice accidentally chews leg off Democrat.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:29 PM

It couldn't have happened to a better guy.

BTW ... I noticed the CBC site removed the picture (of an actual quail)   with the caption stating "this is a quail"

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:08 PM

Then think about how to spell 'sold'.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:07 PM

Somebody somewhere solk him a hunting license. Think about that!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:03 PM

I sent him an e mail.....asked if he needed a Hunter Saftey refresher course....

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 03:24 PM

Bee-dubya-ell, I hope you didn't mean that Dan Quayle was a Democrat!??

I hope this will increase the Impeachment Movement even more.

"Dickie got a gun..."

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 03:18 PM

The OK Corral.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:39 PM

Gotta hand it to that ol Halliburton Hillbilly out shootin for some food. This time he bagged a lawyer instead of bubblin crude, Texas tea or black gold.

Texans surely love to go out shootin in Kenedy County Texas but iffn ya ever hurt somebody ya better wait the mandatory "Ted Kennedy" 24 hours before reporting it. That way the breathalizer test will be OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:33 PM

And, don't forget the grief Jimmy Carter got for whacking a rabbit with an oar!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:31 PM

Aim at Al-Queda and hit Iraq. Aim at a duck and . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:23 PM

Cheney--the NRA supporter. However, it was a shotgun, not a rifle.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 02:23 PM

If Cheney goes, can I have the job? I promise not to mistake a person for a quail -- I've been able to tell the difference between birds and people for a long time now.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 01:40 PM

MG is right, he should go. People jumped all over poor old Gerry Ford for nailing some guy with a golf ball, and those are not considered dangerous weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 01:36 PM

Let's not dump on a guy who shoots a lawyer, and a republican to boot!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 01:26 PM

I think Mr Red's got it! Cheney thought the lawyer was Dan Quayle and, thusly, a Democrat and fair game!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 01:13 PM

deja vu

It's Bush and Quail all over again

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 12:39 PM

Didn't Cheney take Kerry to task over mistaking a goose for a duck? And here we have Cheney mistaking a human for a duck. Gotta love it, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM

Just once again proves my contention that there are NO accidents with guns -- only carelessness. On both their parts, in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 11:23 AM

"Well, folks, Cheney *did* believe the other guy had WMD's..."

Good one Bobert ... a quail can now be classified as a WMD.

Or more like Cheney with a shotgun in his hand can be classified as a WMD!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Big Jim from Jackson
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 11:14 AM

Does anybody happen to know the bag limits on lawyers in Texas? Could he have him stuffed and mounted on the wall above his desk?

Actually, anyone who shoots a lawyer can't be all bad.........

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,The Hunting Song c. 1950
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 11:09 AM

http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2764

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 07:50 AM

Looks like a question along the lines of "When did you last complete a gun safety class?" needs to be added to the FBI's background-check for Whitehouse employees.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:58 AM

Bet nobody will come up with the "Cheney Boogie"...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:23 AM

My friends have already responded with a few interesting comments:

I'd rather hunt with Dick Cheney then ride with Ted Kennedy!

I'd rather drink with Kinky!

I'd rather be rich then innocent!

I'm sure the late night guys are already working with their writers on some great jokes for this week.

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Arne
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 12:15 AM

'Martin Gibson':

Hurts to have your shortcomings pointed out so plainly, eh?

But you're right: Cheney needs to go, and then Dubya right behind him. Then the entire rest of the Republican criminal enterpise. When that's done, we can truly say "our long national nightmare is over...."

I'm quite sure that you, as a rational person, are quite in agreement.

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 09:58 PM

Well, folks, Cheney *did* believe the other guy had WMD's...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Arne
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 08:22 PM

Martin? Martin??? Is that really you??? Thank goodness! The meds seem to be finally taking hold....

But is it really necessary for him to "quit and resign"? Seems to be a bit of what we'd call ... say ... "overkill"....   ;-)

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 07:53 PM

Cheney should quit and resign. If he can't manage a weapon, how can he manage an army?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 07:50 PM

"The first thing we'll do is shoot all the lawyers"... :-)

you have been warned...

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 07:11 PM

One blood sucker shoot another one! Gee and the first missed as well.

Sheesh I thought the Repubs hated Lawyers?

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Arne
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 06:47 PM

That ought to give pause to the folks who trust "GFY" Cheney. But it won't.....

Cheers,

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 06:44 PM

Thanks for those Foolestroupe ... LOL.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 06:34 PM

OK

Shotgun Boogie by Hank Thompson?

another song of same name

Also Shotgun Boogie, came out in June 1998 - ROCKIN' DAVE TAYLOR

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 06:13 PM

Begging for a parody

(The original! - 1950)

Shotgun boogie! (Blam, Blam!)
Boy the feathers flew!
Look out, mister dove, when I draw a bead on you!

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 05:47 PM

Ya, right on Greg ... do the jerk baby !!

"I said,Shotgun shoot em for he runs now
Do the jerk baby
Do the jerk now
Hey!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 05:44 PM

Shades of Junior Walker & the All Stars

Subject: RE: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 05:32 PM

This is from the CBC site ...

this is what a quail looks like !

sIx

Subject: BS: Shotgun Cheney
From: number 6
Date: 12 Feb 06 - 05:29 PM

I always knew Cheney was one dangerous guy to watch out for.

Shoot em all down Dick !

sIx