BS: Cat advice please?

Subject: BS: Cat advice please?
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:07 PM

One of my cats (Pixel) has recently taken to urinating in odd places like on my bed, the sofa, clothes etc. She's nearly 11 months old now and before this has been perfectly happy going outside. It's only in obvius places rather than off in corners etc. so I don't think it's an issue with going out. She's perfectly healthy otherwise, eating and drinking normally, bright eyes, glossy coat and all that. There is a slight chance she might be pregnant though. Has anyone else had an experience like this or do you have any ideas what it might be? I thought she might be a bit stressed and trying to get my attention but I'm at a bit of a loss

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:10 PM

Cats urinate territorially. Your cat is establishing territory and will need training to do otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Peace
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:10 PM

Get an electric rug . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:20 PM

Mortimer did that a few times last summer -- I think to show his displeasure with us. (He peed in the middle of the bed.)

Mort would really like a litter box that no other cat uses and he'd also like it to be cleaned out IMMEDIATELY so he'll have a pristine box for the next time.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:26 PM

I agree with Linn ... One of our Siamese will do this to show his dipleasure such as not giving the usual attention, or yes fussy about his litter box.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Epona
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:28 PM

Cats begin to pee everywhere if you don't get them fixed before their first heat. And, even if she used to be content with peeing outside before, it's a whole new game now!

E

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:28 PM

Urinary infection?

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:29 PM

Even if she seems healthy a vet visit is recommended to rule out physical problems she might be keeping to herself. Otherwise, clean litter boxes are a good solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:31 PM

Take one packet of curry powder, a tin of chopped tomatoes, and a large onion peeled and chopped. Fry the onions in ghee until soft then add the tomatos, stir in 2 tablespoonfuls of curry powder, and cook for 15 minutes till evry thing is soft and the sauce has a good consistency.
Next you need to prepare the cat, making sure you have a big enough pot, and a large weight to keep the lid on.
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:31 PM

Hello.

Does sound like territorial marking...

There are a few things that can cause a cat stress and make them feel the need to reassert their territory, and there are signs that the cat is suffering from stress.

Does Pixel have a litter tray? If so does she use it as well as urinating elsewhere?

Has there been a change in her environment? eg. new addition, whether human or animal, or unwanted guests of the feline variety?

Something as simple as new furniture or decoration could cause it...

The fact that she is urinating on your effects, this would also indicate territorial stress.

There are anti-anxiety treatments available if Pixel continues with this behaviour, but she may calm down over time. How long has this been happening?

Also, in my humble opinion, cats are pretty in tune with their owners, who they often see as a parent figure. If you're stressed, she may pick up on that.

Hope this helps in some way.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Cool Beans
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:42 PM

There are keep-away sprays and other products you can buy in pet stores. They've worked with our cats but they're not guaranteed.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: open mike
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:45 PM

do you have other cats?
perhaps someone else peed there before
the smell lingers and the remaining
fragrance makes them think that is where
to do it!

maybe she is just the only one you caught in the act.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 04:50 PM

Vet check and buy the spray that keeps them away from the area treated.

Treat all affected areas with a spray that takes away the odor.

What 'open mike' said.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:05 PM

It's only been happening for just over a week and only on about three occasions. There have been a few changes here, like Phot going away and also our other cat of her age had begun leaping on her and biting her neck, when she obviously wasn't interested in his attentions. He's now been neutered so that's no longer a problem, so I wondered if she'll now settle down. She doesn't have a litter tray anymore, since they started going outside at about three months old they preferred not to use it anyway. I stopped putting one out as it seemed to encourage stray cats to come in and mark the area.

I think the Guest above makes a good point about her maybe picking up on my stress. Thanks all for your advice, certainly a vet trip will be in order if this doesn't stop over the next few days

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: lady penelope
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:23 PM

Cats spray whether they've been neutered or not. Just to dispell that myth......

Yup, agree with the stress theory. Follow all of the above advice, plus extra chin scratchings and cuddles, but don't, whatever you do, clean up the mess with a chlorine based cleaner (i.e. bleach). As far as a cat's concerned that's just like the biggest cat in the world peeing in the corner and they will do their best to compete......

Oh and extra chocolate for you Pixie.... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 05:42 PM

The biggest cat in the world peeing in a corner is a scenario no one wants to deal with.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:01 PM

Most anti-cat sprays smell just as bad as the cat's own efforts.

Sorcha is right - best pop down to the vet and have a check up. You really need to in any case, if you think she might have kittens on the way

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:31 PM

Is the cat fixed? If not, that could be the problem. At 11 months, that's about when they start that stuff because they are maturing sexually. If you get her fixed, she'll likely stop eventually. At least she's not a male!! It smells really, really bad!! I fixed my cat at 7 mos and he's never given me any problems in 5 1/2 years. So unless the cat is sick, she probably needs some fixin.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 08:40 PM

>>Cats spray whether they've been neutered or not. Just to dispell that myth......<<

You're actually perpetuating one. My cat is male and an avid outdoor-cat and has never sprayed once. I fixed him at the perfect time--right after the testicles drop but before the cat is sexually mature. I wouldn't wait longer than 9 months. If you fix them after they start spraying, they'll keep spraying for a while. But if you do it right, they never spray.

Maybe I have a good cat. I never housebroke him. I brought him home, set out a little box and he just used it--never had to teach him. But I know a lady who says the same is true of her cat, so I don't know. He never goes anywhere but in his box when he's inside. I've never had problems with him that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Scoville
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 09:08 PM

Our neutered male clinic cats used to "go through the motions" of spraying without actually spraying anything. Drove the vet nuts but since they weren't actually doing anything we didn't fuss.

If you have more than one cat, our vets always recommended that you have one litterbox per cat, plus an extra (so two cats, three boxes, etc.) so there would always be one clean and unoccupied. Our old cat was EXTREMELY picky about her box. Some cats are just like that (but can you blame them?).

But I'll agree with everyone else that she ought to get a check up. Please consider having her spayed, too. I love kittens but there are enough of them in the world as it is, and spaying her will not only keep the tom-cats from banging on your door when she's in heat, it will keep her from getting a bunch of other ugly reproductive diseases as well. A pyometra (very nasty uterine infection) turns a $125 spay into an $800 emergency really fast, so you have the chance to save her some misery and yourself a lot of money if you get her "fixed" ASAP.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 09:16 PM

From my own expereience I found my (late) Siamese to spray whenever something was changed in the house---a new curtain hung by a decorator caused it on the other end of the room. Protest I suppose.

Another cat joined the household and then he the Siamese would never use the litter box. When the other cat died he was back in the litter box.

Just goes to show, I suppose, that cats are territorial, stubborn, and will run you and not you them.   Quite different than dogs.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: GUEST,ex cat lover
Date: 13 Feb 06 - 10:43 PM

some might advise a firm slap or neck wringing..

alternatively,
as soon as you catch the cat in the act of pissing where it shouldn't

quickly apply 2 or 3 drops of tabasco to both its nostrils..

might not stop it making a foul stinking stain on your carpets and bedding..

but revenge is just so sweet !

[and a more hygenic response than old fashioned punishment to rub its nose in its own urine ]

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:05 AM

Hi.

When we rescued Flossie she did this for a while, we just corrected it by watching her and taking her to the tray when she showed sings of going. And kept placing her in her tray during the day just so she knew where it was.

She was very aggitated and scared at that time though, had been treated cruelly and was scared of her new surroundings - and probably thought we'd be evil to her too. It took about 2 weeks of reassuring, and I suppose, re-toilet training her to use her tray.

BTW a friend taught her cats by standing near the tray digging a hole, pouring in some water and then covering it up again - but then my friend is eccentric but swears it worked? Who knows.

Good luck with her - it's probably a stress thing though. Just try re toilet training her.

E/W/I/S

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 03:42 AM

">>Cats spray whether they've been neutered or not. Just to dispel that myth......<<

You're actually perpetuating one. "


It's no myth.

My 2 neutered females - done at the earliest date, and who both lived past 18 yrs, sprayed inside the house. I had to put up plastic sheets over all the bookshelves.

They started when my mum had them for company and kept them locked inside at night - they had always used a cat flap to go out whenever they wanted, day or night, and had never sprayed inside before. When I got them home again, they continued to spray inside, until I finally banished them both outside.

My new pair have got along well together. The older one came home with me, but I took her back for visits, and then the second one grew up meeting her. WHen the second one was treated, i brought them both home in the same cat carrier - no problems. They play and wrestle friendly together, but they get on well - only thing is the 4 month old one hasn't worked out how to get back in the cat flap yet, so is content to stay inside all the time. The older one (13 months) was a bit like that for a few weeks too, until she had settled down. They are not spraying inside the house.

I have observed many cats, especially female, spray outside for marking.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:14 AM

She's probably missing Phott and Jack!

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: ranger1
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 10:03 AM

I don't know if you can get it in England, but there is a really good cat urine neutralizer here in the States called "Nature's Miracle." As for the actual urinating bit, I can add anything else that others haven't already mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: open mike
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 10:16 AM

i thought nature's miracle was for
cleaning skunk sprayed dogs-a different
kind of spray!

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 10:27 AM

Shoot it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: jonm
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 11:27 AM

When I had Star, she used to go outside so we abandoned the litter tray. She started doing this in obvious places because she had developed a urinary infection and was no longer "lasting" as long, even though we had a cat flap. Vet fixed that.

She did it again a couple of years later when Squitten the kitten got run over, I think that was stress and distress at being the only cat again. She needed fuss and reassurance.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Gervase
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 12:27 PM

Once a cat starts pissing somewhere it will carry on dong so because the smell lingers, so you need to break the cycle by getting rid of the smell.
A cheap and effective alternative to the expensive deodorising liquid you get from pet shops is supermarket own brand biological washing liquid - I use Tesco value when our Jack Russell forgets that he's meant to be being house-trained and it works a treat; dilute in a bowl with the same amount of water and scrub the pissed-on area. The enzymes will stop that nasty smell and discourage Pixel from pissing there again.
Agree with the stress theory, too. Cats will piss in odd places when they're feeling stressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:07 PM

She hasn't done it in the same place twice and I am really careful to get rid of the smell. Most things go through the washing machine but I have been using washing up liquid too. How do you deal with cat stress other than extra fuss and attention? I tried putting her on the couch and asking her if she had a traumatic kittenhood but she fell asleep

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 04:47 PM

The solution is simple. Give the cat to Clinton Hammond.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: lady penelope
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:00 PM

It sounds like she's not happy with something Pixie. It can drive you nuts (what with all the extra washing etc.).

Can you lock the cats in during the day (whilst you're not about) as it may make her feel more secure. This of course only works if you supply a litter tray and none of the cats take it upon themselves to take the catflap apart......... Bless 'em....

There's a spray called feliwell which does work (short term), but it's expensive and doesn't help if the cat persists in being stressed out.

As for the neutering of cats stopping them spray - yes it is a myth, both my cats (one male one female) have sprayed or widdled at times of stress (namely a couple of big cats kept coming into our flat) and both have been neutered since they were kittens.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Windsinger
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 05:31 PM

Hi Pixie,

Among other solutions for removing/neutralizing cat-urine smell:

White vinegar.

It's a tried and true home remedy. Just take whatever cleaning solution you'd normally use, whether for laundry, or for spot-cleaning, and add a healthy belt of white vinegar.

Basically, even if the soiled items are cleaned and no longer have "cat funk" that the human nose can detect, Pixel's can. And that might tempt her to regard them as acceptable targets for spraying later. (If it hasn't triggered repeat-offenses yet, it will.)

It won't eliminate the primary cause of whatever's stressing out your kitty. But it'll help in the cleanup, and might just assist in slowing the pattern down.

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 06:08 PM

Notice that the people who insist neutering cats doesn't stop them from spraying all immediately afterward state they have more than one. Ta-da!!!

You may as well not bother fixing them if you're going to keep more than one. Cats do not share the litter box. One comandeers it and won't let the other use it or neither will use it.

Quite frankly, one cat per household is enough. I won't even date women who keep more than one. It tells you something--figure it out if you already haven't.

Cats are very clean but more than one in the same house becomes a pig sty. A friend of mine broke up with his girlfriend who had about 6 cats at least of all ages. His carpet was smelling funny and he tore it up from the floor. The sponge cushion thing underneath was COMPLETELY soaked in cat piss. Totally. Not an uncontaminated square inch.

My cat would never ever do that. He can't stand his shit and piss being all over the place. But then he's an only cat so he doesn't have to compete or force other cats to stay out his litter box.

I know some people love having cats all over the place but I recommend only one. That's quite enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: SharonA
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:30 PM

Pixie: Can't add much to the advice that's already been given, except to suggest that in addition to the possible stressors already mentioned (her possible pregnancy, Phot going away, other cat trying to mate with her, picking up on your own stress) -- as if that weren't enough already -- there may be stressors in her outdoor environment prompting her to mark her territory indoors. A new or aggressive stray cat, perhaps, or a stray dog, or a large bird swooping and pecking at her, or some other threatening change to her environment. A change in her food could cause it also.

You may want to try keeping her indoors for a while, preferably in a quiet room by herself with a litterbox and maybe even with some soothing music playing, until she settles down. Giving her her own space where she won't have to compete with other animals for territory or hierarchy may be just the ticket. Of course, if she continually yowls or scratches at the door to be let out, then the method could be modified so that she's alone in her room only when you're not around to give her attention.

But do get your vet to take a look at her!

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Scoville
Date: 14 Feb 06 - 08:38 PM

"You may as well not bother fixing them if you're going to keep more than one. Cats do not share the litter box. One comandeers it and won't let the other use it or neither will use it."

No, please, FIX her anyway. There are a lot of other health benefits. Ask your vet. (Sorry, I'm an ex-vet tech. This borders on religion for a lot of us who are/were in the animal health field.)

But he's right about the litterbox thing. More cats need more litterboxes. Litterbox territoriality is a definite source of stress.

As far as neutered/spayed cats spraying--yes, some of them do, but it's usually stress-related or a urinary tract problem. Unneutered males do it to mark territory and it stinks to high Heaven (I would seriously rather have a skunk in the house). "Fixed" cats are much less likely to spray but other issues can bring on "inappropriate elimination". (Works for dogs, too. Male dogs neutered young are much less likely to urine-mark, especially indoors.)

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 12:47 AM

"Cats do not share the litter box. One comandeers it and won't let the other use it or neither will use it."

From personal experience, absolutely not true - certain (cat) personalities may do that - we have at least one (allegedly human) poster here on Mudcat like that ... :-)

Kittens raised with their mother will share a try with little fuss, but they usually then prefer to go outside, unless it is raining and they can't find a dry place.

My previous 2 cats - raised together from kittens from different littlers from opposite sides of town cooperated, untill they were old enough to go outside.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:17 AM

Why am I not surprised at this 'giok'ester's counsel? It was my first idea, too, when reading the title of this thread, but I could never have expressed it in such fine words.
Now, fun besides, Bat Goddess' advice is sound and most valid. Why do so many people grab the chemical mace first? Poor animals!
Beware of the RSPCA, friends!

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 06:34 AM

BTW, I insisted on having 2 cats (that get along reasonably well) as I found in the past that a single cat gets bored and depressed. Two are company, especially when I was at work.

And when travelling with Squeak, I found that having Bubbles with her quietened her down. Was the same with my previous pair too.

Subject: RE: BS: Cat advice please?
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Feb 06 - 07:52 AM

Has a new cat come into the neighbourhood? The change that prompted this may be visible but ya gotta know what to look for.