NEFFA 2006

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: John Hernandez
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 06:58 PM

This thread is becoming increasingly obscure. I am very interested in the NEFFA festival, the schedules, the music, the best deal on a hotel room, who is performing this year, who isn't, etc. But many of the recent messages seem like insider gossip. Maybe someone should put some effort into making them understandable to us clueless folks who make up the bulk of the paying audience. Otherwise they should be PMs.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:24 PM

Sorry, John. Here is a link to their website with all the information you are looking for:
http://www.neffa.org/

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: MMario
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:29 AM

John - remember this site is not affiliated with NEFFA - and this thread is just a conversation between a bunch of people - some of whom will be attending, some performing, some just kibitzing. The Place to look for information regarding NEFFA would be the NEFFA website. This may be a starting point, but "recent messages seem like insider gossip. Maybe someone should put some effort into making them understandable to us clueless folks who make up the bulk of the paying audience is irrelevant to this thread, since this isn't a NEFFA site.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:34 AM

If Peter has a bottle of decent champagne he is DEFINITELY my new bestest friend.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: GUEST,Amira Barzani
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:36 AM

I think MMario misses the point. I am sure that John Hernandez realizes that Mudcat is not the official NEFFA website. From the way his message appears to me, he is saying that the original postings to this thread contained information that was accessible to everyone, such as who is performing, who isn't, whose performance is opposite whose, and where the best places to stay are, while the later postings are obscure chit-chat, incomprehensible to anyone but insiders. This is not something unique to this thread or even to Mudcat. It is something that goes on throughout Internet bulletin boards, discussion groups, chat rooms, newsgroups, and listservs. It may appear to be on the emotional level of giggly junior high school girls deciding who can and who can't be part of their clique, but it serves a useful function because adults never lose the need to feel that they are part of something exclusive and that all outsiders are a bunch of dweebs. Since adults should not act that way in real life, they do it on-line. It is neither good nor bad. It is just a fact of life. John should grow up and just accept it.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: MMario
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:41 AM

I think you are missing the point. This thread already contains the link to the NEFFA site, where, as has been pointed out - the current information is avaialble. Would you walk up to a group at a party who are discussing a concert you are interested in and demand they stitck to the subject because you bought a ticket to the concert and they are discussing where they are going to eat afterwards?

John's post was the equivilant.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:38 PM

Sorry. John is right. BS belongs below the line. But the best info on NEFFA is on their website.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: MMario
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:41 PM

yes - but the BS on this thread is keeping it current and visable - and if the thread were moved below the line - it STILL wouldn't be visible to people who were looking for the valid musical content (which it does contain)

Sometimes even BS serves a purpose.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: GUEST,Amira Barzani
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:50 PM

I wouldn't go up to the group in any event because people have the right to associate with whoever they please. That's why I said John should just grow up and accept the fact that Mudcat, like many other sites on the Internet, is a place where otherwise socially graceful and emotionally mature adults can act like silly junior high school children. On the other hand, if there are people interested in making the thread more inclusive rather keeping it exclusive, it is their responsibility to take the time to explain what some of the obscure messages mean. But I suspect that's not what most people want to do, especially not the insiders who dominate the conversation. There's a certain amount of emotional satisfaction that comes from speaking (or in this case writing) in secret short hand. Everyone does it at some time in their life, so it's not necessarily a bad thing, nor is it a good thing. It just is.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:21 PM

strange but true - we do not attend NEFFA as a group but will probably run into each other at some point at the Folk Legacy booth. No clique.
And yes - Mario - my intent was to refresh the thread.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: kendall
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:12 PM

There is no clique. There is no inner circle. Those are figments of the imagination.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:48 PM

This was basically friends chatting about an event that they will all be attending. If this is of no interest then just scroll over and see whether anyone else has given the information that you are looking for. There is no compulsion to read each post.

Looking at what has been posted - we do behave somewhat like that in real life, because we all know each other. That does not preclude others joining in - most of us became friends through coming onto this site. I am mildly offended to be told that we are behaving like 'silly junior high school children'. Please don't patronise. I don't think that any of the posters here would dream of calling others 'dweebs' just because they have not yet become friends.

Check in the BS section and you will see a lot more of what you call 'exclusivity' and what we would say is a group of people who have been regular posters on the Mudcat, quite often on a daily basis, for years getting together to discuss various topics. There is no bar to joining in with the banter if you wish but, if not, do not criticise those who do, even if it does happen on a thread above the line.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:22 PM

Oh Crap! Now you've done it. Jacqui is pissed! Poor Seamus is probably cowering behind the sofa as we speak.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:40 PM

I haven't added anything since March 1 because all my questions were answered once NEFFA put its schedule up on its website. But I have been lurking for the past two weeks and paying especially close attention to the discussion of the past 24 hours. Without taking sides let me say that there certainly appears to be an inner circle. I believe I know who some of them are, including Animaterra and Midchuck, as well as the people who sign their real names. I have no idea who the others are, including SINSULL, bbc, MMario, kendall, and jacqui c. Anyone from the outside who reads this thread can see that right away. It's not a figment of the imagination.

Having said that, let me add a word of special praise for Kathy Westra. She is clearly one of the insiders, and yet she takes special care to make sure her own postings are understandable and welcoming. Take a look at them again and you will see what I mean. Kathy teaches by example, and her postings are free of in-crowd codespeak on one hand and snide sarcasm on the other. In doing so, she has made all of Mudcat a more open and friendly forum. Thank you, Ms. W.!

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: jacqui.c
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:51 PM

Check the membership page. I'm in there and so is Kendall.

And jacqui.c was my real name before I married Kendall. Kendall is Kendall Morse, Maine humorist and folksinger.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:01 PM

Thanks.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:13 PM

Thank You GUEST, Janice in NJ!
As it sometimes happens in groups that grow tight, some of the inner workings do become to appear & what you see & said is true, though not intentional. It's to bad that it was you that pointed this out but you are the better for it & I'm one who would that this transgression does not deter yo & Amira Barzani from using this site. It does not take really any effort or time as long as you speak your mind & don't let any of get ahead of ourselves for this to be a friendly site for anyone. As long as a level of decency is kept up to snuff.

Amira Barzani, please don't get your back up, as I believe this was a slight oversite, knowing most involved & again I'm sure this was not meant to rub anyone the wrong way. We've all been called on this so lets all just get past the scratches & so we came all get back on track where the atmosphere is warm & welcoming.

Thanks everyone
Barry

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:24 PM

OK, I'm ready, had a bad day food shopping, pissing off the staff at Shaw's supermarket. Any body want take me on, feel froggy, then leap, I'll be all over the bunch of ya like a new suit, like stink on shit.

OK. Now I feel real good.

Can I help any body with any thing.

Sorry I won't be seeing or meeting anyone at NEFFA. Charlie Noble & I will be in NYC at the sea shanty session, partying out on Long Island one night, in the city another night, maybe a couple of nights, going to Glouchester for a session another night. Eat ya hearts out. I will miss you all though.
Barry

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:37 PM

I had no intention of excluding, and I apologize if my participation offended anyone- I did, however, get caught up in a momentary silliness, which I don't often get to do. My Mudcat name is the name of my women's chorus (click) which will be performing at NEFFA on Sunday morning at 10:45, or rather than performing, we'll be facilitating a pleasant opportunity to sing songs which don't often find themselves in the "singaround" repertoire. ALL are welcome! Even silly junior high school children! ESPECIALLY silly junior high school children!

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:51 PM

Janice,
I too have been a member for five or six years. My name appears in at least three thread titles above the line right now. I offer House Concerts and Song Circles in Southern Maine. They are open to anyone who happens to be in the area and have been attended by locals as well as members up and down the east coast, Texas, England, Scotland and I forget where else.
Please, if you are in the area - there is always a meal, music, good company and a warm bed. Ed Trickett in May, Seamus Kennedy in August, Judy Cook in September, so far set this year. There is a New Year's Eve special and a summer Lobster Boil as well.
SINS

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: bbc
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 08:39 PM

Janice, you & I have met at NOMAD, the past couple of years. I'm Barbara from New York. bbc happens to be my initials & I use it because that is how everyone now knows me. I regularly sign as Barbara & have never hidden who, what, or where I am. Although I've been a Mudcat member for several years, I am not an insider, if that means a frequent poster. I am not a performer; I am audience, a lover of the music & the musicians. If there is some chat in the event-based threads--at least for my part--it's because I only get to see most of these friends I've made over Mudcat 1-3 times a year at said events. The intent is not to exclude others. If fact, that's the main reason I am not very active in Mudcat, these days; it's gotten too chatty & too negative.

best to you,

Barbara

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:13 PM

Janice, I think the people who you've named as part of the 'inner circle' are simply the ones who feel relaxed enough to be silly. The blather, which I've been a part of, can go on long enough, and be obtrusive enough to get on even my nerves, though. Getting them/us to stop it is likely not going to happen. Having moderated threads separate from the chat threads might prove useful in the future. (It worked great with the FSGW Getaway thread last year.)

In any case, I don't think there's anyone around here who doesn't at least like Kathy Westra!

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:35 PM

Thanks everyone. But please look at my last message again and please notice that I was not complaining, just making an observation.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: MMario
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:51 AM

All that said - I still stand by my statement that this thread had already pointed out links to the NEFFA site and the grid - which is the best source for information; and the continueing conversation between friends served the purpose of keeping the thread renewed and available.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:31 AM

Janice,
Look at our posts again. Each person is explaining who they are and emphasizing that there is no inner circle. Kath Westra was just at my house for the second or third time for the John Roberts concert. If there were an inner circle, she would be the ring leader.
As to NEFFA, I can't be in three places at once and don't expect to be at her workshops. But I will more than likely run into her at the Folk Legacy booth. I really have never had an opportunity to see Morris Dancing and will spend quite a bit of time there. Even tried to get a workshop set up at the FSGW Getaway but there was a logistics problem.
I don't wear a Mudcat T-Shirt or Button so you won't know me on sight. But I do hope our paths cross.
And I will put all further BS below the line.
SINS

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 05:57 PM

Lord spare us from paranoid whiners. They wont play with me...boo hoo.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:14 PM

I have been asked if alcoholic beverages are available or acceptable at NEFFA. Since it a school, I assume the answer is "No". Does anyone know the official policy?
SINS

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:02 PM

I believe you're right, but all I can find is that sealable water bottles or sports bottles must be used for drinks when you're not in the cafeteria. (To prevent spills.) There's no mention of what one might have in the bottles.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:34 PM

Drinks are not allowed outside the Cafe except for water.
Barry

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 05:48 AM

NEFFA is an alcohol-free event.

Allison

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: GUEST,Dead Midchuck
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 06:55 AM

NEFFA is an alcohol-free event.

You mean they expect people to watch Morris dancing sober?!?!

Oh, the horror....

P.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: MaineDog
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 08:43 AM

NEFFA is such a kick that we don't need any chemical help!
MD

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 08:56 AM

I don't think that I have ever seen a sober Morris Dancer - that's part of the tradition, to have that pewter tankard hanging from the belt. I sometimes think that, in the UK, Morris dancing is used as a good excuse for a pub crawl.

This should be interesting!

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: John Hernandez
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 09:26 AM

Three days I go I made what I thought was a simple and noncontroversial request. I said that this thread was becoming more and more obscure, and I asked that people should put some effort into making the messages more understandable to the wider audience. I didn't make any accusations. I didn't flame anyone. I didn't put anyone down.

For my simple request I have been patronised ("The Place to look for information regarding NEFFA would be the NEFFA website."), infantilised ("John should grow up and just accept it."), told to butt out ("Would you walk up to a group at a party who are discussing a concert you are interested in and demand they stick to the subject because you bought a ticket to the concert and they are discussing where they are going to eat afterwards?"), and finally ridiculed ("Lord spare us from paranoid whiners. They wont play with me...boo hoo.")

Basta ya, amigos!

(Sorry, but the upside down exclamation mark before Basta is not printing out.)

Fortunately, not everyone acted in the manner I describe above. Barry Finn, SINSULL, Barbara, and Animaterra, in particular, responded positively to my request and to the other people who expressed concerns.

So this is what I have learned. For official information go to the NEFFA website. (I already knew that.) For additional insight on such matters as where to stay, what to expect in the workshops and concerts, which Morris teams to watch, what you can and cannot drink, and who should be afraid of whom, stay here on Mudcat. But wear your flame-retardant suit!

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: kendall
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 09:50 AM

The best way to avoid getting flammed is to come in often and get aquainted just as the rest of us did.Insinuating that this is some sort of club open to only the insiders is simply not true. Wanna know something? ASK.Just be aware of the impact on people whom you don't know, and who don't know you.What you meant, and how it is heard are often two different things.

I remember when I first discovered the Mudcat. Didn't know the first thing about it, but over time I learned just by being a regular. In time, I was accepted, and all I did was not piss anyone off.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: MMario
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 09:57 AM

John - sorry if you took my comments as patronizing or implying you should butt out. Neither was meant. However it wasn't clear what kind of information you were looking for - and it certainly seemed as directing you to the NEFFA site would suit your needs. As far as the comment regarding walking up to a conversation - I was just trying to explain my reaction to you "pauing public" comment.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:11 AM

John, I did try very hard to be civil about this. I also did a search to see who you were and where you were coming from. I find it very hard to understand how it is that you and Amari and Janice always appear together. Sharing a computer or your own little click?
People, we are being flamed.
SINS, with gloves off and apologies to all who are being subjected to this nonsense.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:12 AM

sorry - clique.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: GUEST,Pamela in Ithaca
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:17 AM

Hey folks, I've been lurking around here for some time,
and I actually know some of you, and I've got to say
If I was John I'd be more than a bit put off.
To put it bluntly - Y'all were dangling on the edge of rude.

If you want to be friendly and inclusive, try a little hospitality.

John - NEFFA is a wonderful event with more music, dancing,and visiting
than any one person can take in. One thing you *should* know is that
on-site parking is very restricted, so finding a place to stay near
the off-site parking area is a good idea. And, wait for the bus near
the parking ramp area. Last year we stood around for nearly an hour
waiting for buses that never made the loop becauase they got filled
right away at that first entrance.

I've got long red hair, and will be singing with Dave Ruch and the
Woodchuck's gang in a "Songs for a Snowy Evening" session.
Stop by and say hello.

Cheers, Pamela

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: John Hernandez
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:02 AM

SINSULL, you are not being flamed. You have been one of the most supportive people and I said so. I had a concern which I stated. I am sorry that some people responded in a manner that I found less than pleasant, but you certainly were not one of them. Some of the others, such as MMario, have now explained what they intended to say, and I accept that. I really don't know who the other people are, including the ones you mentioned, but let me say who I am. I'm 42 years old. I was born in Miami and I have lived in New York City and its Nassau County suburbs until recently, but I now live in Maryland just outside Washington. My interests in music include classic jazz, Latin jazz, blues, classic country, classic rock, folk, and acoustic singer-songwriter stuff. My favorite folk musicians are John Prine and the late Steve Goodman. I have been to the Phladelphia Folk Festival several times and Falcon Ridge once, but it is only in the past 4 or 5 years that I discovered the smaller festivals like Old Songs, Mystic, and NEFFA, and with it the more traditional style of folk music. I play a little bit of piano and guitar, but not enough to ever think of myself as a performer. That's about all.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: MMario
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:08 AM

John - one of the things commented on in older threads about previous NEFFA's is that it is multi-festivals in one - there is so much going on in so many areas. Even when you are activly LOOKING for people it is possible to totally miss each other for hours or even days.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: John Hernandez
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 11:24 AM

MMario, thank you. I know what you mean. I have been to NEFFA twice, and I found it more overwhelming than Old Songs, or even Falcon Ridge or Philly. There are really so many things going on in such a relatively small space. I notice that much of the socialising goes on in the lunchroom, while the corridors are filled with jam sessions. And thanks, too, for explaining your earlier message. I believe neither of us was clear in the beginning.

Pamela in Ithaca, thank you for the information on the shuttle bus. The two times I went to NEFFA I stayed with a couple of friends in Framingham, and they dropped me off and picked me up. This year, if I go, I will fly to Logan and then either rent a car or take the commuter train to Natick. The information on the shuttle bus is very useful.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 06:53 PM

John,
If you are in Maryland, why not attend the FSGW Getaway? It is in your backyard.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 06:53 PM

Oh- and another thing about parking in the lots and taking the shuttle bus- allow yourself lots of time!! A friend of mine came tearing into my song workshop 10 minutes before the finish, because he had wrongly assumed that 20 minutes would be plenty of time to park, wait for the shuttle, and ride to the high school!

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 08:56 PM

I offered to do some Friday volunteer work for NEFFA but have not heard back. I am assuming that they have people from last year and don't need me. Anyone know the policy?

Spoke with Caroline Paton. All systems are go for Folk Legacy. See you all tomorrow.
SINS

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: bbc
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:02 PM

I'm driving in early Saturday am & staying at the Red Roof Inn.

See you all soon,

Barbara

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 09:33 PM

Us Woodchucks are doing a set at 10:00 am Saturday, if I've gotten enough coffee into me by then to know which way up to hold the guitar, but not so much I can't get through an hour set without peeing. (H. Allen Smith told a story of two men about my age who met after not seeing each other for some years. One asked the other, "And how are you spending your time these days?" The other one said, "Peeing, and trying to remember the names of my friends." When I first read that, thirty or so years ago, I thought it was funny, but rather improbable. I should have known...But I digress.) That set will be mostly cowboy (or outlaw or railroad worker or whore, etc.) songs. Then at 2:00 Saturday, as indicated above, we're sharing a set with Dave Ruch and Pamela Goddard, entitled "New England Fireside." We have never met or worked with our set-mates before, and have not done any real planning for the performance. But that's the way NEFFA works, and it's usually more fun that way. Sometimes someone figures, "If I sing the longest songs, I'll get more stage time." But not very often.

Mike Agranoff has got a parodies workshop Sunday afternoon, 2:30, and has invited us to sit in and do a song or so. I replied to him, We would be pleased to assist you in lowering the level of taste at NEFFA below any depth previously reached.

Other than that, I plan to get into whatever good jams I can find, spend too much money at Camsco, and eat a lot of ethnic food that makes my farts smell even worse than usual. That about covers it. Hope to see many of you.

Peter.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 10:25 PM

Great! Sharing the Red Roof Inn with the gaseous Peter. sigh! And there are three workshops at 10AM Saturday that I can't miss. SIGH! I can't wait to see old friends and make some new ones. CDs from Folk Legacy. Music.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 10:31 PM

Sins, you're going to be at the Red Roof? Is Jacqui still coming? Is she staying there with you?

P.

Subject: RE: NEFFA 2006
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Apr 06 - 10:37 PM

Yes. Yes. Yes.
And she is threatening to bring pickled eggs.