BS: Responses To Racism

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Gurney
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:04 PM

Azizi, any comment, remark, or joke that I post is NOT intended to upset, belittle, or insult you in any way, racial or otherwise.

I really do not care if you are black, white, or any shade between.

To answer the thrust of your question, If I thought you were trying to insult me racially, I would ask if that was your intention before I decided on a course of action.

If, however, you want to make jokes about short, bald, white males who are immigrants, go ahead. I'm literate, I can answer back.

Many jokes told today are about 'blondes' and noone seems to see much wrong with them. Why not? They insult a much smaller racial group than 'black' jokes.

Regards,   Chris.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:09 PM

Why would you fear Arabs, GUEST, oofg??? Because 19 of the hundreds of millions of Arabs did some dumbass stuff???

Hmmmmmmmmm?

Yes, you do have some problems here...

But rather than dwell on them, how about telling us about a couple of the Arabs that you know and that you trust... That's the story that needs to be told...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:25 PM

Foog oofg,

From your last post, I don't know if you are just trolling or not. I am going to assume you're not for the purposes of this post.

You have everything you need to deal with your paranoid racism. You are aware of it. You are aware it is irrational. You are aware it is fear-based. You can begin using socratic reasoning in a very deliberate way to gradually restructure your beliefs and to decrease your fear and your racism.

Question: Have you developed a phobia of ethnic Arabs and were not aware of your racism before you developed the phobia, or were you socialized to see ethnic Arabs as not as 'good' as you? Is your fear of Muslims or is it of non-caucasian Muslims? Or is it strictly Arabs, regardless of their religion? Is the entire prejudice centered on fear that 'these people' might have a bomb strapped to them and kill you, or is it more generalized?

Your responses to the above questions can help you frame the socratic process-- to fine tune it to be most effective as a tool for cognitive restructuring.

If you are serious about dealing with this I can direct you to some links that explain cognitive restructuring and also the process using socratic reasoning to challenge ineffective or incorrect beliefs within ourselves.

If you are not serious and are just baiting--then foog oofg.

xxoo,

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:30 PM

19 bobert?

You are not watching much news about the cartoons are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 06 - 11:32 PM

Yes, many (if not most) people do sometimes in certain moments feel an irrational fear of some other identifiable groups of people who are culturally or racially different from themselves. Those fears are not the product of reasoning or of a political theory, they are simply instinctive reactions to the unfamiliar, the unknown. In the same way, dogs are often nervous and edgy around other dogs (or other animals) with whom they are not yet familiar.

To admit to such a reaction is not a confession of racism, it's a confession that one is human, vulnerable, and like most other people.

Most people who refuse to admit that they have ever had such a reaction in some situation on a city street (or wherever) are not being honest with themselves...or they're not being honest with others, because they are afraid they will be accused of being racists.

"Everyone is so fearful of offending someone there is just complete denial that fear is even there."    YES, Martin! That is the God's Truth. It ought to be written somewhere in letters of gold.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:08 AM

Gurney said, "They insult a much smaller racial group than 'black' jokes."

Blondes are not a racial group and they have not been subjected to years of discrimination.

I get your point but its totally invalid.

Blondes were never enslaved by brunettes.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:09 AM

What dianavan said.

J

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,gruff loner, who just needs a little love
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:59 AM

fuck racists and all other pathological intolerant extremists


lets all be misanthropists..


then start to work backwards from that pragmatic position
until we can sift out and establish friendships
with the best of all kinds of people we encounter
along lifes desparately ruthless and cruel machavelian way;


and if it is ever possible to engage the badguys
in consructive debate,
and maybe just manage to convince even a handfull of them
to change their negative attitudes and beliefs..
Then maybe they're the ones who should deserve
our friendship even more..
..if they can gradually be persuaded to metamorphose
into positive valuable citizens.




but on the other hand..
it can be too tempting to enjoy ripping the piss out of nazis who visit here.

exposing, ridiculing and dismissing their abject pernicious ideologies
with the utter contempt they deserve.

.. sometimes it is so hard to ignore a good justified fight !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:27 AM

Dianavan and Janie: Blondes are racially from the Germanic and Scandinavian peoples. Where else would they be from?

How can anyone justify classifying peoples with brown skin as a group, and not classifying peoples from a limited area of western Europe the same way?

They haven't been enslaved nor discriminated against because you would have to defeat them in battle to do it. The only brown(ish) people who even came close were the Moors, who got well into France before they were driven back. Perhaps you should ask a Spanish historian how they behaved, while they were there.

I have read that blondes fetch a good price in the Middle East, though. Don't know if it's still true. It used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 03:23 AM

Blondes were never enslaved by brunettes.

Were they ever enslaved by other blondes?

I come into contact with a lot of people in my work who are of a generation that is not perhaps very aware of current attitudes on racial matters. I know on first meeting that I will most probably being seeing and generally conversing with them over a reasonable period of time. Now one first meeting - unless they are carrying banners which would make this clear or start immediately on a rant or racial slur - I do not know if they they are racist.

The way it works is that over time issues come up and you may get some indication that they may hold a view that may result in them making a blatant racist comment. Sometimes it may come without warning. Then you are placed in a difficult position. If you do not make it clear at that point that you are not prepared to converse in this manner - the danger is that you will get sucked-in to a situation where such comments are thought to be acceptable and it will be very difficult if not impossible to carry on.

This is the sort of reality that faces us when we talk about confronting racism. It is far from some imagined vain-glorius charge on a white horse.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:14 AM

Some of you just don't have enough to worry about in the real world do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:15 AM

Well said, Shambles.

It means that if you continue a racist conversation, you are a part of that conversation.

Thats why you have to speak up and tell the racist that you consider that a racist (or sexist or...) remark. If they want to argue, you excuse yourself and walk away. It means standing up for your beliefs.

Thats why I won't respond to Gurney who wants to believe that Germans and Scandanavians are a different race of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Paul Burke
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:25 AM

Blondes weren't, but redheads were considered suspicious in the middle ages, and suffered discrimination.

As for blondes being Germanic, didn't Caesar describe the (Celtic) Gauls as blondes?

Gurney wrote: "The only brown(ish) people who even came close were the Moors, who got well into France before they were driven back. Perhaps you should ask a Spanish historian how they behaved, while they were there."

They created the most spectacularly proficient Mediterranean culture between the Roman Empire and the renaissance, at a time when Byzantium was in intellectual decline, and western Europe was a collection of illiterate warlordries. Their tolerant (by almost any standards) multi- ethnic society laid the foundations for the Italian renaissance, and hence that of all Europe. Their destruction by the Spanish crusaders led to the forcible concersion or expulsion of Spanish Moslems and Jews, and the permanent decline of Spain as an intellectual force.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: the one
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 04:27 AM

to right ted::<:

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Grab
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:38 AM

The Moors were incredibly tolerant. So too were most Islamic countries of the time. At the time of the Crusades, when the Christians were busy trying to eradicate Islam from the "Holy Land" and massacring civilians (how little changes, eh?), Saladin was renowned even by the Crusaders for his conduct and the conduct of his army. In fact, if you want to do the history thing, there's precious little in the way of nastiness that *hasn't* come from whites.

And FWIW Gurney, all of Europe *has* been at war with its neighbours at one time or another. Hell, the west of England and the east of England went to war with each other, and you know how big those areas aren't! Defeats in battle in Europe are ten a penny.

For myself, I'll readily admit to being less comfortable around black Americans or Asians than I am around white Brits. But I'm equally uncomfortable in France, Spain or Greece - I'm around people with a different culture from mine, and I don't want to be unintentionally offensive. (I'm not too worried about being around white Americans, bcos Britain's been McDonaldised enough that this isn't a big problem.) It's not a skin thing, it's just recognising that I don't know enough to participate in that culture. The more time I spend with people from those backgrounds and the more I learn, the less uncomfortable I feel, bcos the less chance there is of making a prat of myself.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:26 AM

How about client centered instead of restructuring?

Oh an Arab in a thick coat
I'm sitting down next to him
I'm not afraid
He's just cold
He's reaching inside his coat
He has to scratch
He's clicking his cellphone
BOOOOOMMMMM
BOOOOOOMMMM

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 08:59 AM

Yeah, Martin, just 19...

How many of the folks of Islamic Faith who have demonstrated against the cartoons have struck the United States???

If anything, all these folks are trying to get accross is that they are tired of being treated like second class citizens... If the tables were turned, I would expect you would do what these folks are doing... I mean, you certainly stand up for those of Jewish Faith...

You don't have dual standards, do you???

Hmmmmmmmmm?

Ain't it dual standards that are the common denominator of purdy much all the "ism's"???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:12 PM

Grab, I appreciate your 21 Feb 06 - 05:38 AM comment about being uncomfortable around persons who have a different culture from you because you don't want to be unintentionally offensive.

It is unfortunate that sticking to what is known & comfortable combined with combat fatique of living in a hostile world and the avoidance of possible conflict & questions {innocent or otherwise} cause quite a few people of color to self-segregate in settings such as university campuses when they are the minority. Undoubtably, this voluntary segregation makes it difficult to bridge cultural chasms and get to know each other.

Related to this point, Shambles, in your 20 Feb 06 - 07:21 PM, you speculated whether you would reveal your racial grouping if you had joined a forum that you discovered had almost all Black members. You wrote that "if I ever did decide to make it clear to the rest of the contributors what my racial grouping was - it would not have been because I was either proud or ashamed of it."

Let me say that I first posted on Mudcat as a guest on a thread about the song "Kumbaya". In that post, I felt that "revealing my racial grouping" would add context and background {if not a certain measure of validity} to my comment. Racial pride or lack of pride has nothing to do with it.

As an armchair folklorist, when I collect, document, and share text versions of children's rhymes [my primary area of interest] and spirituals, & other songs, I feel that for the historical record is desirable, helpful, if not critical to provide as much demographical information as I possible can. This includes race/ethnicity, gender, age, geographical location, time [usually indicated by decades], and the way the songs {rhymes} are performed.

IMO, these variable can result in changes in the text of these songs and rhymes. Having demographic information can also result in a more correct interpretation of words and phrases. Demographics may also point to differences in the performance of a song even when the lyrics are the same.

So-in a nut shell-that's why I reference my race in some Mudcat posts. However, unless the topic is race or etymology, or other cultural topics where knowledge of my racial background is pertinent, I don't include it in my post.

For example, when I posted on the Rocky & Bullwinkle cartoon thread, I didn't say "As a Black person, I love the fractured fairy tales feature of that show". Race had nothing to do with my enjoyment of those segments.

However, it could be said that even if I don't reveal my racial identity, being bilingual {in standard English and some types of African American "Ebonics"}, the fact that I am African American might be surmised from my posting style.

But then again, it might not.

It bes that way sometimes. And sometimes not.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:24 PM

Historically, almost nobody has died as a result of 'terrorists'

Ya wanna be afraid of something? Fear heart disease...

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:42 PM

Related to this point, Shambles, in your 20 Feb 06 - 07:21 PM, you speculated whether you would reveal your racial grouping if you had joined a forum that you discovered had almost all Black members. You wrote that "if I ever did decide to make it clear to the rest of the contributors what my racial grouping was - it would not have been because I was either proud or ashamed of it."

Well I was not accusing you or saying that this was the reason for you. I was just trying to work it our from my perspective in order to better understand yours. It was a worthwile exercise for will accept that I found it is not to be an easy one.

For whichever course you decide - you are open to criticism and self-examination. Part of me would probably like to be thought of and accepted as a black African American blues man. Looking back that was probably what many of my schoolfriends would have much preferred to have been born - rather than suburban English white boys. A romantic concept possibly more that a very realistic one.   

But I think we have been over this before and I can remember you making some comment about not being happy at the thought of posting without making your racial grouping clear. My view may have been that you had the choice because this was a written medium - but I am not sure that is still my view.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 12:54 PM

Historically, almost nobody has died as a result of 'terrorists'

The point is well made but if you accept that terrorism is a violent political, religious or social conflict - the ratio is looking a little more balanced as a form of fatality.

But perhaps if you accept death as inevitable - the form in which it eventually comes is less of a concern than the quality of your remaining life. Violent conflict in all its forms is not really likely to result in having a quality a life to recommend - is it?

The existence of heart disease hardly makes the effects of terrorism a good thing and you don't really need to die of either for both of them to be bad news.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:00 PM

"if you accept death as inevitable"
How can you not? It's not like that's an IF at all....

"hardly makes the effects of terrorism a good thing"
Nobody said it did...

It's about getting some fkng perspective.... Especially if you THINK you have to be afraid of people you don't know....

"Violent conflict in all its forms"
I worry more about drunk drivers than 'terrorists'....

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:09 PM

Ha! Again you are the voice of common sense and sanity, Clinton. I don't know what's going on here lately...I may have to take that dartboard with your face on it off my wall and replace it with one of those Clinton Hammond Fan Club T-shirts that Raptor made up for your forthcoming World Tour. (grin)

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:21 PM

Shambles, I can not recall ever writing on Mudcat or anywhere else that I wouldn't be happy at the thought of posting without making my racial grouping clear.

However, since this quote is taken out of context, if I wrote it,
I believe that this comment was part of a larger post in which I meant that I wouldn't be happy at the thought of posting on certain subjects without making my racial grouping clear.

Not that it looms large in the grand scheme of things, but if anyone wants to know my position on why & when I reference my racial identity, I would refer them to my 21 Feb 06 - 12:12 PM post in this thread.

Of course, I would never suggest that everyone should do as I do. This works for me. But maybe it's a matter of different strokes for different folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:23 PM

"Again you are the voice of common sense and sanity"

Wow... this MUST be a pretty sad place if that's really the case....

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 01:29 PM

Well, Clinton, that depends on which angle you look at it from, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 05:45 PM

One thing I know it is not necessary to put down a group of people in order to stop driscrimination and bad treatment to others...Bobert and whoever else...no need to be smug about white guys. White guys died in the West Virginia mines recently. Some are helping to liberate others in Afghanistan and Iraq. They drive trucks, crawl under houses to fix plumbing, run little diners, pay child support, or not...most are not out oppressing anyone. They loaded up trucks and boats with food and water and tarps to help out after Katrina. They rushed upstairs in collapsing buildings during 9/11. No need at all to put them down as a group. As individuals, go right ahead. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: autolycus
Date: 21 Feb 06 - 06:20 PM

Susan - I think :~ (    (is that it?) is an o.k. response of disapproval of racism, tho' the poster might not know it means disapproval.

Surely there is an obvious objection to disliking a racial (?)group ,e.g. Arabs. That is, in EVERY group, some are "good", some are "not-so-good". Further, unless you've met everyone in the group, you can't have a reasonable opinion about them.

When anyone hates a group like that, they are living by stereotypes. We all know (don't we?) the situation of a stereotype crashing into REALITY, and the follow-up line,"I thought they were all ......,but when I met ....... ,I discovered that they aren't." That is surely a common element of racists and anyone wealding stereotypes. They don't KNOW anyone or hardly anyone of the relevant group. (Rather like people hating classical music;ask them if they've heard any and chances are pickings will be mighty slim.)

So hating all ........ is treating a piece of ignorance (the stereotype)as the truth when it is obviously NOT.

I doubt if there is AN answer to how to respond to racists 'cos, as with all other groups, there is no one type.

If the racism is owing to ignorance, some cool facts/education could help; if it is down to fear (conscious or unconscious), I doubt if argument will be fruitful.

How about us finding, as a community, some way of deciding that there is nothing further fruitful to be done with a given racist and to have a simultaneous signal to fall silent. My limited experience here is that racists go away quite soon.

There is stuff to read about the experiences of various oppressed peoples. For example, for the black experience there is the wonderful and sad "Black Like Me" by John Howard Griffin. For those who don't know it, it's about a white journalist who alters the pigment of his skin in a hotel, and emerges to discover what the black experience is like, as an experience.


Finally, I'd like to say I think this is a community of essentially non- and anti-racists, and if any of us feels threatened or smells dubiousness in postings, no-one should be backward in picking it up.

Ivor (in Norwich 11.25p.m. and I'm bloody cold)

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Azizi
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 08:05 AM

Some early morning thoughts:

It occurs to me that avoidance of racist or probable racist/ confrontative situations [or threads,in the context of Internet discussion forums] is not the same thing as ignoring the occurance of racism when you are confronted with it.

****

If Mudcat members or guests read racist or otherwise offensive posts, they could post a brief message that indicates their abhorrence for the post and then immediately go to the Help feature to inform Joe Offer. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

If people see that post and wait for others to comment and to contact Joe Offer or a Joe Clone, then isn't it like a person who sees fire shooting out of a building and assumes someone else is going to call the fire department?

****

Someone asked me upthread [or elsewhere in this forum] if I thought Black people were racist. For the record, Yes. I know that there are African Americans, and other Black people, and other people of color who are racist.

If the racist "joke" that appeared in the beginning of the now deleted Hurricane Names thread was written or had been shared by a Black person, I still would be highly offended.

****

Thanks again for your comments. IMO, the quality of this thread's discussion speaks well of Mudcat.

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 08:30 AM

Not too sure why I got singled out by GUEST, mg, as some kinda "Hate Whitey" kinda whitey kinda guy but...

...hey, some of my best friends are other white guys!

(Bobert's attempt at a little comic relief...)

Nah, I don't have any problems with white guys except those who have fired me, busted me, screamed at me, stolen from me and beat me to a pulp for standing up for pro-human causes... No, I realize and will sate empharically that, fortunately, these folks represent a small minority of white guys but none of those things has ever happened to me at the hands of the black guy...

(Oh, Bobert. Now you done it...)

Well, maybe I have but it needs to be said that it is white guys who haver wrestled the power in America and they continue to use it to their advantage at the disadvantage of all others, including their own sisters, mothers and wives???

Okay, yeah, I know about the miners and heroic deeds of white guys and those deeds are indeed well and good... I can take nuthin' from the struggles of white miners who crawl into a 36" hole to extract the coal that gfuels the electric plants so rich white folks, mostly children of the rich, can heat their McMansions...

But this ain't about miners... It's about discrimination and about an unlevel playing field and its about extreme poverty and it's about ouur nation's values... And iot's also about the systemic and institutionalized social systems that are involved in maintaining wealth and power... And it's about the various "ism's" that these folks use to maintain this power...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 10:34 AM

I think MG's trying to tell us -as Phil Ochs put it- that some of our best White Guys are her friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,me
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 10:48 AM

Bobert, mg is a long time and bveloved Mudcatter, mary garvey. She always gives good advice and definitely did not mean anything negative. She (and I) like pale men. So be nice to her, you crankcase!
me

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,foog
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 10:59 AM

Janie despite the fact that you appear to be using a clinical term (paranoid) pejoratively, (a big no no in my book)as well as suggesting that I am another insulting term (troll), I am going to take your advice and use both socratic reasoning and restructuring whenever I encounter an individual that appears Arabic so that I won't feel fear and distrust. I discovered that I don't hate really, just fear.

Around here the term troll is just an insulting term used to negatively label anyone who differs with the clique on anything or becomes angered at mean or insulting remarks. It lost its intended meaning many years ago, in my opinion.   

But I still dislike the Islamic world, primarily because of their oppression of women, which is justified in the name of protection of virtue. What a crock!

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 11:14 AM

Auto, whereas the best way to deflate a troll is to ignore them...

and whereas Azizi and others need to know an offense has been seen and not ignored....

my thought was to use the :~ ( symbol.


That said, I think a really serious problem with this whole business is that a troll will post ANYTHING to stir up trouble, just for their own entertainment. S/he will choose any target available to get people's panties in a wad. Posts like that are not about racism, or anti-semitism, or anti-religion, or any other topic involving mistreatment in and of themselves-- they are calculated shots at the WHOLE community, using our care and concern as the vehicle.

My concern is that we not lose sight of that phenomenon, AS WELL AS the phenomenon of racism.

Racism runs a WIDE range of misunderstandings, lack of education, fears, economic and calss manipulation, and outright hatred. Face to face, one can assess more accurately just where it sits for both the "offender" and the "objector." There is a broad opportunity for a unique, potentially-helpful exchange.

In the threads-- it's much harder to get it right. The more delicate a situation is, the more complex-- the more likely a text-only conversation can go wrong and become multiplied by the number of responses.

In a perfect world, the first poster to encounter the offense could post words to the effect that such is not tolerated here, and Azizi (and others) would know, from this thread as well as from the network of relationships here, that a post to that effect really does speak for the whole community.

The reality, though, is that NO ONE should ever be mistreated; being or feeling alone when it happens (in a crowd that appears not to support one's presence) is really, really hard to deal with. And-- a further reality is that few members here can actually let anyone's single post stand without adding, embroidering, etc., and so there a troll can really have a field day.

Maybe a link back to this thread or to an anti-racism resource would be answer enough.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 11:24 AM

Blondes have never been enslaved by brunettes? I guess that is probably true but what the hell has it got to do with the point of this thread? Does it mean that it is OK to tell blonde jokes and the blondes in question have to sit back and take it? Does it mean that the only people who can have a say are those who have had a rough deal?

Just be careful there! I have noticed the tendancy to belittle the easy targets. Us white, middle-class, males seem to be getting the rough end of the stick. Keep that up and I will get out of the BMW and sit next to you on a bus one of these days;-)

Seriously though, is it OK to make fun of anyone because of physical characteristics, demographic placement or religious viewpoints? I think that at some point in time every race on the planet has been enslaved by another. We have all been enslaved by someone else in our past. Or will be in the future:-(

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 11:29 AM

Yo, GUEST, me...

Hey, I've never been called a "crankcase" before--cranky, yeah-- but never a crankcase...

I kinda like it...

Might even change my performing name from "Sidewalk Bob" to "Crankcase Bob", then when I have a band backing me up I could be "Crankcase Bob and the Shafts"... Got to admit that it has a nice ring to it...

Nevermind...

Thread drift over...

Crankcase Bo(ert)

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 11:33 AM

DtG,
    Keep your head down! If you are white, middle aged and middle class surely you must realise that everything in the World is your fault!

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 12:23 PM

"crankcase"

You might not want to be called a crankcase when ya find out what that means in a maximum security prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 01:47 PM

don't change your name, bobster. It means portable meth lab. But it does fit your level of activity!!!! hahah

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 01:56 PM

"middle aged"

Ya.. right... cause all you old hippies are gonne live past 100

Middle aged my ass... Middle aged for a male is closer to 35-40

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 03:51 PM

Well, Bruce, back when I was workin' in the joint they had a whole different vocab... Don't recall nobody every callin' nobody "crankcase" but now that it's been brought to my attnetion that it ain't good to be no crankcase, "Bite me", GUEST,me...

But danged if "Crankcase Bob and the Shafts" don't sound good...

Oh!?!?!?...

I get it!!!

Crank... case... Hmmmmmmm? Like a head...case.... Haha....

Meth??? Actually we had that stuff back in my druggy days as well... It weren't no fun.... Wire you up purdy good but then you'd crash and the crash weren't worth the wirin'...

Nevrmind...

No back to the subject at hand...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Janie
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 04:57 PM

Foog,

I was using paranoid clinically, and not perjoratively. I agree that is a big no-no. I thought it described what you were saying you were feeling when you were around Arabs. I am sorry that you understood it to be a put-down. I consider a phobic reaction to be a paranoid reaction. I have my own phobias and therefore my own areas in which my emotional reaction is paranoid.

I really couldn't tell from the tone of your last post before I responded whether you were frustrated because you weren't getting the support or help you were seeking, or if you were just looking for a fight. So I couldn't tell if you were trolling or not. When you went from foog to oofg, and I looked at both of them together, along with the change in the tenor of your posts, I wondered if you were communicating f*ck off. And I guess I didn't want to look like an idiot if I was taking a troll posting seriously. We all got egos, ya know?

I am sorry that you were offended and hope the cognitive techniques help.

Janie

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: number 6
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:03 PM

God be damned if this old geriatric hippy {me} gets past 70!!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: autolycus
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:18 PM

How about leaving Joe to spot racist trolls and redirect them into a siding of their very own where they can just talk to each other.?

Is that possible?

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:26 PM

Now, now, now, sIx.... Ain't no reason to be fussin' wid the Big Guy 'cause He gives you a little longivity... But I have it on releiabvle sources that Hs looks after His old hippie population... And He sho nuff knows the real ones from the kids who thought it was all about long hair, loud music, gettin' high and gettin' laid... If yer an old hippie you know exactly what I mean...

Now I'd like to reiterate my feelings to Joe or Max or whomever that next time you get one of these "racist" posters to leave him out there for like 24 hours to get his or her public cyber floggin'... Pullin' the plug is too good fir these folks... The innernet has this wonderful ability to provide it's own kind of peer pressure...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 05:30 PM

There's NO peer pressure on the internet....

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 06:46 PM

Janie, true apologies require that you apologize for your own behavior. Perhaps you are not offering a true apology. Nevertheless, I will accept your explanation and I appreciate your sharing.
I'm not clever enough to use letters for a name which spell out an insulting acronym unfortunatley. thanks for your feedback. Off to the convenience store to practice my restructuring.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:22 PM

Thanks again for your comments. IMO, the quality of this thread's discussion speaks well of Mudcat.
Azizi

Hmmmmmm? Ponder, ponder.

And if you considered it didn't speak well of Mudcat, could we all then assume that we were all being judged by you as being racist?

Do you think it is better for our forum and possibly safer, to try and avoid making public judgements (well-intentioned or not so well-intentioned) about other posters, on mass or as named individuals?

I feel it would probably cause less trouble if we just tried either to address or ignore what was being said in posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:30 PM

Nah, Clinton, I believe there is... Yeah, there are folks who would appear to not be pursuaded like MG but if you look at his posts of today verses those of last year I think you'll see that even the most outragious have bent a little to the pressures of their peers...

Now, I'm not speaking for everyone but this joint does seem to police itself quite nicely even when Joe or Max don't intervene...

MO, of course...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Responses To Racism
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 22 Feb 06 - 07:58 PM

Bobert - I have always assumed that Martin's departure, and reappearence { and the slight change of tone on his part } were forced on him by the Mudcat powers that be. I'm guessing he was told to change his tune or get out forever. And faced with the propect of losing his key to the playground that he underwent a vasectomy. I could be wrong of course.