Sitting At The Kitchen Table

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:18 PM

Since I got back from Wisconsin, I've spent a full week trying to figure out why I can't get power mower to run. Last night, just taking it easy, it occurred to me what the problem might be. Of course, it's been occuring to me what the problem might be all week, and every time I tried something to get it running, it didn't solve the problem. Today it did, and I mowed our lawn. It was almost 90 here today and my neighbor told me that it was too hot for me to be mowing the lawn. I told her that I didn't care if it was 500 degrees... it took me a week to get my lawn mower running again and I was mowing the lawn! Nice that people are concerned about you, though and I thanked her.

My motto which has carried me through life quite nicely (without too many disastrous experiences) is "I wonder what happens if you do this." That's been my approach to playing music, learning instruments, learning the computer and getting lawn mowers to run.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:10 PM

Calvin Trillin was on the radio this weekend, speaking from his Missouri roots that the motto of the entire Midwest is "No Big Deal." I can second that.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:56 PM

Hey, Ebbie:

When I go to visit my family in Wisconsin, I have to shift gears (and terminology.) Out there, they have breakfast, dinner and supper. No "Power lunch." Not even a "Power Dinner." Out here in the East, it's breakfast, lunch and dinner. No sense singing for your supper around here. They don't even have it.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:32 PM

I know that you are right about the long hours on a farm. That's where my life began.

There are good things about it too - excellent things, in fact. Not excluding the hour-long nap after mid-day dinner!

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 03:01 PM

Thanks, Peace, and it's great to see you stopping by for a cuppa these days. It feels like a real kitchen in here.... people just talking about whatever comes to mind. Nothing earth-shaking. But then, most of our lives aren't earth-shaking, either.

Be sure to come back...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:56 PM

I can't believe I read this whole thread and really enjoyed it. Thank you, Jerry.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:51 PM

Glad you caught that one, Ebbie: It was intentional. Growing up in farm country, those are a farmer's work hours... up at 5 a.m. to milk the cows and fee the livestock, and often working until 8 or 9 at night.

Wrote another song about my Uncle Jim and my cousin Howard:

"Old Uncle Jim he said, said to his son, he said
Wake up Howard 'cause it's almost dawn
The snowdrifts have covered up the old hay wagon
And we got to dig our way out to the barn
The cows will all be waiting for the old milk pail
And it won't be long before the rooster crows
So we better hop to it, 'casue there's no one else to do it
'Cause the sky is getting cloudy and it looks like snow"

When my youngest son Aaron was little he picked up on the line "So we better hop to it, 'cause there's no one else to do it," and when I'd tell him that we had to do something, he'd sing those lines in this little kid sing-song voice. It always cracked me up.

When I was a kid, we'd go out to my Uncle Jim's farm... or my Uncle Ross's or my Grandfather's farm and it was a real treat for me. I'd play around most of the day with my cousins, but it didn't slip my attention that My Uncle (and Aunt) would be working all day, well after the outside lights were turned on by the barn.

Farmers would consider a nine to five job a vacation.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:39 PM

Working 'Five to Nine'? L O N G hours. orreallyshort.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:26 PM

Why shouldn't you, Jerry? Tom Paxton did:

Bottle of wine, fruit of the vine....

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 01:13 PM

Highway 51, by the bye, runs from Northern Wisconsin all the way to New Orleans. It, Route 66 and Route 1 on the East Coast are (I think) the three longest highways in the United States.

It just ain't Highway 61. I still thought there was a blues called Highway 51 Blues, but maybe that was Highway 61, too. Don't ask me.

Now I have to check to see if Highway 51 runs through Dixon, Illinois. It's been a long times since I've been to Dixon, but I wrote a song about the town. Had the lines:

"Used to be was all I knew was Dixon
But Dixon never meant that much to me
When you're working five to nine
And you hear that highway whine
It makes you think the road can set you free"

Gee, and here I said I never wrote any songs that had whining in them.... :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:59 AM

Yu're right, Guest... I must be getting old. And I have the album, somewhere... been a long time since I've played albums. At this point, I only use them to copy songs onto CD, and I'd need the trans-Atlantic cable to reach from my turntable to my computer...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 10:52 AM

Çool that you have travelled that famous road. I think Route 66 has been designated a historic monument.

Lots of towns where you wouldn't plan your next vacation have been lauded in song (Mostly starting with "I'm going to ______"): Brownsville, Newport News...

Heck, if Gary, Indiana can have a love song written to it, what can't?

Not to rain on the parade, but Dylan's album was Highway 61 Revisited...but who's counting?

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:24 AM

Thank you, Rapaire: I'll remember that the next time that I drive through Weehawken. There was an ambidextrous baseball pitcher from Waxahatchie who once pitched a double header in the minors, pitching one game right hand and the other left handed. He ended up being a very successful General Manager in the big leagues... gotta scratch my head for a minute to recall his name... seems like he was GM for the White Sox and his last name was Richards.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:00 AM

Hey, Burr shot Hamilton in Weehawken. I mean in the geographic area known as Weehawken. There's no body part called Weehawken as far as I know. Weehawken is famous, at least among folks with a mind for trivia.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:23 AM

Good one, Elmer. Washing dishes is prime time for writing songs. I wrote Ten Pound Radio in completion (not that there's a lot to it) taped it, was playing it back and starting to sing harmonies to it, all while washing a single load of dishes. Admittedly, as a single man working a demanding job and raising two sons alone, my single load of dishes didn't resemble anyone elses...



When The Messengers sang at Dave Para and Cathy Barton's Big Muddy Festival in Boonville, Missouri, Ruth and I went out early, rented a car in St. Louis and took stretches of Route 66 over into Arkansas. There's a new umpteen lane superhighway parallel to the old route 66, and not all of it is still there, but we got off the superhighway every once in awhile and wandered along (relatively speaking) on Route 66, stopping to eat at a diner, and just enjoying an older way of travel.)

I grew up on Highway 51 in Wisconsin, and was talking to Ruth about it when we were visiting my Mother a couple of weeks ago. I used to fool around on a railroad overpass, over Highway 51, and I have a lot of memories about it. My Mother worked at Parker Pen, which was on Highway 51, as well. It's not quite as famous as Route 66, because Nat King Cole never sang a song about it, but Dylan's second or third album was Highway 51 revisted.

Then, I was plunked down last night after a very busy day of singing and family gathering and when I turned on VH1 they were talking about Rockford, Illinois where my youngest son lives, and where I was planning to retire until I met Ruth. The rock group Cheap Trick is from Rockford, and they just released a new album simply titled "Rockford." Not the smartest move commercially, but I thought that it was cool to do it.

Lucky they all weren't from Weehawken.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 12:17 AM

Tollbooth, Jerry? Ya gotta pay admission???!!! Here's a little ditty that sprung forth while washing the dishes (gotta clean up the kitchen table every 666 posts or so):

ROUTE 666

If eternal damnation is your quest,
Travel my way on the highway that's the best.
Get your kicks on route 666!

It starts with Armageddon,
And brother I ain't kiddin;
Then you'll point your lorry
Towards purgatory.
Don't be a no-show.
At Dante's Inferno.
Basking on the pyre
In everlasting fire,
Perdition,
Hades,
The pit
Is it!

If you take heed of this timely tip,
When you take that rapture-unready trip.
Get your kicks across the river Styx!
Get your kicks on Route 666!
Get your kicks on Route 666ssssssssssssssssss…..

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:06 PM

1-866-666-6666 is the toll-free number for The Beast. Just in case you want to call or something.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:02 PM

All I gotta say is if this thread every reaches 999 I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole. I hear the Devil likes to hang upside down by his heels like a bat. Maybe if none of us takes 999, jimmyt won't be able to sneak in here and get 1,000.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:58 PM

True story: A woman named her son Damien (spelled that way, which I think is not the spelling of the character in the movie.) Around the time the first "Omen" movie came out, she got a call from his school. On the back of his head was painted 666. He denied knowing anything about it. His mother was asked some pointed questions.
(Eventually he confessed to her that he had in fact done it himself).

He had been a hellion before that too--but now he's a very successful businessman--and a generous person.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:46 PM

Yeah, Elmer... but eventually you come to the toll gate..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:38 PM

Get your kicks, on Route 666.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 08:04 PM

That's what they all say, pal.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:26 PM

Just checked it out. Scarrrrrrry! At Armagedon, the followers of the Anti-christ will have the numbers 666 written on their forehead or hand. If you check my photo on here, you'll see my forehead is clear, but my hands are hidden.


Hmmmmmm.....

Honest... no numbers on them..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:25 PM

I give up. Why is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:21 PM

Quick! Quick! Under the table wit' ya.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:18 PM

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!! I just made the 666th post... the Devil's post... let me outta here. I'll let our librarian explain why 666 is considered a symbol for the Devil..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:17 PM

Glad you stopped by, rockhen... stop in regularly. You never know what the conversation is going to be about.

Yes, actually sitting at a kitchen table would be far better than a cyber table, but this is still pretty good. The atmosphere in here is warm and friendly, and after more than 650 posts, we've yet to have anyone get offended (or try to be offensive.) Says a lot about the quality of the regulars in here..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:09 PM

hahhah One of the best Amish traits imo is their love of laughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 07:01 PM

Ebbie, I worked for 12 years in Geauga County, Ohio and 16 years in Elkhart County, Indiana.

Uri Byler autographed his book "The Long Summer" to me with the words "the best librarian on the planet." I thought that was stretching it a little, but not by much! It's a fictionalized account of his decision to stay Amish -- the town where I worked had promised him, as a community, a scholarship for as far as he wanted to go in his education.

That book is sitting next to his real autobiography, "As I remember it" on my bookshelves, about eight feet from me.

When it's available, I buy "The Budget."

I told a library patron and a friend of mine named Yoder that I was moving to Elkhart, Indiana. He said, "That Amish country, you know." I said, "Yes, and you know, I can't hardly stand them folks." He took off his hat, stroked his beard, and said, "You know, I can't hardly stand 'em sometimes myself."

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rockhen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:35 PM

Thanks for pointing me to this thread, Jerry...interesting reading the last few posts but I'm just at the listening stage, at the moment.... until I get braver!
Hope to maybe pop on and contribute before too long. I like the idea behind the thread...although I feel slightly wistful that we don't all have the time to actually call round on friends and park our feet under the table for a drink and chat, quite as often, as in years gone by. Typed conversations can lose a little bit of warmth or be misunderstood, more easily than face-to-face chats with the extra clues of body language and tone of voice.
Congratulations, though, at starting and maintaining a very good attempt at the kitchen table chat session! Please excuse me interrupting it!

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 05:28 PM

Rapaire, I missed your post above about Uri Byler. So far as I know, he's not a relative of mine- although I have cousins, living in Kentucky, named Byler.

Depending on the church, smoking is sllowed or prohibited. The Oregon church allowed it, the Virginia church did not.

Some Amish churches grow tobacco commercially, even though their church does not condone smoking. (Hypocracy is unknown among the Amish. *G*)

In Kansas I have relatives who make their own wine. And I had one uncle who kept some whiskey in the cupboard for 'medicinal purposes". My father scoffed at that, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 04:17 PM

"can you tell us anything about "rumspringen"-supposedly a custom whereby Amish teenagers can get a dose of the outside world--possibly innoculating them against it? Ron"

The only way I ever heard 'rumspringen' (literally, 'running around') used was in reference to young people who had recently started attending the evening events, signifying, basically, that they were ready to start dating. They might or might not be members at that point.

You'll have to keep in mind that my experience was not typical. In my Amish life I first lived in a small community, something like 20 families. In fact, my own father's friends were not the Amish people but 'English' or 'hoche' people. I do know that the boys of the community did some drinking and they went to the movies and I know that my oldest brother and his Amish friends did some fraternizing with non-Amish girls. Except for parental guidance - and worrying - no punishment was brought to bear onto the boys as long as they had not yet joined the church. After joining, they were subject to some serious strong arming, I understand.

I don't know if the same kind of thing went on in Virginia. The 'young folks' there were much more overtly pious than those in Oregon. They even ahd Bible study groups.

The very large Amish communities in Ohio and Indiana and to a lesser extent in Kansas, had/have a bad reputation among many Amish. My parents made a point of telling us that they would never relocate the family there.

I consider the Amish religion and its structure and its strictures to be a crime against its children. Any community that holds knowledge and 'book learning' in contempt is a community that has a tremendous potential for abuse and ignorant beliefs. The way of life is fine- my father was a horse trainer and we kids always had lots of riding horses and outdoor activities and many of my fondest memories revolve around them. But the religion teaches/taught strict obedience to the church rulings without recourse. If one rebelled against such a ruling one was considered to be rebelling against God. As one example, I wanted to be a school teacher - and I was told that Amish people don't become teachers, nor do they go to college.

Things have changed a great deal in many areas so I really don't know much about conditions any more. In Virginia, after I left, the Amish opened their own school and they earn high school diplomas. Many Amish now go on to college for a teacher's degree. Many of those who do, however, eventually leave their Amish church and join a more liberal church such as Mennonite or the Conservative Mennonites. It's hard to convince someone who has been exposed to other views that Jesus abhorred car ownership.

Believe me, there are many, many different degrees of Amish life. To this day I can tell you if an Amish woman is from Pennsylvania (Lancaster or Somerset County) or Ohio (Geauga or Holmes County) or Indiana, just by seeing the style of headcovering. and the 'halsduch', (literally, 'neckcloth') a kind of self-material chest covering.

I have many cousins scattered across the country, primarily in Michigan, Indiana, Kansas and Iowa but I rarely see any, more than every ten years or so.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:10 PM

The Cold Water Society was a teetotaler organization which required taking the "Cold Water Pledge" never to let anything stronger than water cross your lips. The Founder of Milton was a member of the Cold Water Society and started the town as a Utopian community where all alchoholic beverages were banned. He deed a large park in the center of the town with the stipulation that there would never be a tavern in Milton. Some enterprising (and thirsty) residents eventually started Milton Junction... a suburb of a town with no more than three or four hundred people, so that they could have a bar. In the 70's, a young lawyer researched town records and could find no legal restriction on bars, a vote was taken legalizing alchohol in Milton, Milton Junction was assimilated into Milton and no longer exists, and someone built a bar called the Park View, overlooking the Park donated by the town's founder with the promise that no liquor would ever be consumed in the town.

It made an interesting song.

Last line of the song, in honor of the town's founder..

"If your worth your salt you'll hold on to your dreams
They're still the best measure of man."

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:04 PM

And Jerry, congratulations on your role in Milton. What was the name of the song?

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 03:00 PM

Hey Jerry-

How about telling us about the Cold Water Society? Garrison Keillor talked about the "Cold Water Brethren" who believed in baptism only in cold water. Any similarity?

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:53 PM

My wife and I had a humorous experience at a historical society museum a couple of years ago. It is in Milton, Wisconsin where my Mother grew up. I knew the history of the town quite well and wrote a song about it. Milton is a fascinating little place... was a well documented stop on the underground railroad, has the first concrete building constructed in the United States, which is hexagonal, was founded by a teetotaler and member of the Cold Water Society and was originally named Paradise Found, in honer of Milton's Paradise Lost.
At the beginning of a tour of the Museum, they had an opening film giving a history of the town and while the screen was still black, someone was playing guitar and singing. Ruth said, "That sounds just like you!" And it was. I had sent them a tape of the song probably 20 years earlier and had never received any acknowledgment that they had received it. When I mentioned to the Curator that I was the one singing on the film she was very excited. They'd found the tape in a drawer with no indication of who the singer was, and just used it on the sondtrack.

For a town of just a few 100 people, Milton had a fascinating history. You'd never realize it, driving through the town. I wonder how many other towns have amazing stories to tell that are now forgotten..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:16 AM

I was told that by the Director of the local historical society and museum village, who'd lived in the area all of his life (except for going away to college and the Army). He wasn't one to stretch the truth even a little bit (although he was known to deflate the pompous).

Because the Amish tend to deal with problems themselves and don't like officialdom, they rarely call the police. This leads to some awful stuff -- in Indiana, Amish men were beaten and robbed; in Ohio, Amish girls would be raped; and VERY recently a 67-year-old Amish widower in Ohio was blackmailed for his life's savings by two people who said they had evidence that he'd tried to solicit a prostitute.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:09 AM

Good stories Rap. Do you know the "firing a 44" etc. to be true?

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 10:03 AM

I dunno if it's a custom or not, but back in Ohio, the pre-churched Amish boys were hellions. Saturday nights they would come to town, get drunk, get in fights, and in general cry havoc. One bar had a specially reinforced section of ceiling into which the bartender could fire a .44 to quiet things down. When the bars closed the boys would either stagger outside or be dragged and men would come with a farm wagon and load 'em up. When the wagon passed the home farm gate they would either fall off or be carried off the wagon and laid in the grass (or snow). Sunday evening they'd go into town and collecter their wagons and horses from the stable where they'd left them.

Church services, especially if they were at the home farm of one of the carousers, could be interesting (or so I was told).

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:48 AM

Ebbie--

The little girl could have said, "Guck mal, Mami" (look, Mommy) (as you suggest)--but she could also have said--"Du, Mami"--which I believe she did. I suspect if we wanted to, we could confirm any questions about colloquial German with Wolfgang or another German Mudcatter.

It's dangerous to insist on translating literally from one language into another, especially in colloquial speech. In fact, the only direct German-to-English slang expression I know is "klar wie Schlamm" (clear as mud)--which I find very useful--and I've taught it to Jan.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 09:32 AM

Ebbie--

I was 2 years in Germany. I've heard a lot of German--in the Umgangssprache--and I had an intensive German course before I even went over there--8 months, 5 days a week, 6 hours a day .   I've aways been very interested in languages--that's why I was curious to know about the German spoken in Amish church services.

Germans, informally, do in fact express themselves as I have indicated (starting with "Du", for instance. It would be the equivalent of "Hey" in English. (As in "Hey Mom").

Another question for you--can you tell us anything about "rumspringen"-supposedly a custom whereby Amish teenagers can get a dose of the outside world--possibly innoculating them against it?    Is this so?

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Jun 06 - 02:35 AM

Oh, dear. I just know that was one of Rapaire's sled dogs. Ask him.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 11:01 PM

Hallelujah, Ebbie!!!!! One of the sled dogs must have stopped to have puppies. I'm glad they finally got to you, though.

Enjoy!

Maybe if I send you some for Christmas and mail them by Monday, you'll get them just in time...

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:54 PM

Yippee! Jerry, my CDs from you came today! They're all in fine shape even though the the envelope looks like it was caught under a rubber tire, or maybe a conveyor belt. It shows that it was mailed on May 15 and it took until June 17 to get here. Now, that, I believe, is a record for me. The longest in the past, I think, was 11 days from Tulsa Oklahoma to here. I tell people that obviously the airplane wasn't full yet.

Anyway, I played the first one- The Gospel Messengers in Washington DC - three times before I got myself stopped. I love it. I love it. I've always loved black gospel music since I was a teenager in Virginia where black groups would sing in local white churches and everyone would flock to hear them.

One of my mortifying memories I have is of sneaking to the woods next to a black church and hunkering down so I could listen to the music inside. I can't imagine why I thought anyone would object.

I haven't listened to the 'Jerry Rasmussen Sampler' yet and am looking forward to it. I've got 'The Gospel in Black and White' on right now, and Roy Acuff is singing.

Jerry, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 10:50 PM

Ebbie, Uri Byler was someone I will always consider a good friend. Uri was also very probably the most intelligent person I've ever met -- and I've dined with Bucky Fuller, among others. Uri was the author of several books, and he testified in the Amish Schools case. He literally wrote the book(s) on Amish teaching, school rules, curriculum, and such stuff in Ohio. Another of his books was "Our Better Country," an American history for the Amish schools.

Anyway, this is a story I heard from another, and very reputable, friend named Frank, who was a long-time friend of Uri's.

Frank was sitting in a bar in Middlefield, Ohio, having a quiet beer at the bar when Uri walked in. Uri sat down, ordered a beer, and lit a cigarette. Then he turned to Frank and said, "Well, I suppose that this will be the last beer and cigarette I'll have for some time."

"Why, Uri? You have health problems?"

"No, no. They've just elected me bishop."

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 08:38 PM

It's funny how different cultures and congregations differ from each other. Where I grew up - in Oregon, in a small church - as soon as an English-speaking person came along we switched to English. Had we known the word 'gauche' that is what we would have thought it to not include them in the conversation.

Then when I was almost 14 my family moved to Virginia to a large Amish church. And there the 'jungen' spoke 'deutsch' as soon as English speakers appeared. (Strangely enough, a great many of the younger generation spoke English even at home to their parents; the parents spoke deutsch, they were answered in English. When my best friend eventually married and had 5 children they never taught deutsch to their kids. This friend and her husband left the Amish and went to a Conservative Mennonite church.)

Ron, your quote, as written, would literally be: "You, Mommmy. He has 20 of them." More likely she would have said the equivalent of 'See' or 'Look', Mommy. I can't find the German form of Look; we used so many idioms and colloquialisms that the 'hoch deutsch' sometimes gets lost. But the words we used was 'guk' (sp?), pronounced like 'look'.

At home we spoke the dialect- not Platt Deutsch. Platt is a separate dialect as is 'Schweitzer Deutsch'. My mother's family emigrated from the Alsace in the 1700s; my father's family from south Germany somewhat later.

One thing the Amish do is keep good records. My father's family is traced back to the 14th century when it was spelled differently but still recognizably. Many books have been written with the material taken from the records of the 'old countries'. Most Amish - ex or not - have these books and I'm no exception.

My family spoke our German dialect at home until we started caring for foster children (of whom my parents adopted two); after that we all spoke English at all times. (And no, I didn't teach German to my daughter.)

We spoke the dialect but read the High German. Nowadays, because the dialect is an unwritten language, speaking High German is easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 07:01 PM

It is definitely fun to do what your friend did, Rapaire. I even had the opportunity to do it--I had bought 20 Dutch Apple yogurts at the Super Giant (of course this is in the US). I love it--with cinnamon in the recipe. A little German girl behind me in line said to her mother (as I can recall) "Du, Mami, er hat 20 davon! (Mommy, he has 20 of those!)   So I turned to her and said "Stimmt". (That's right). She turned beet red.

There are lots of good reasons to speak more than one language--that's really a very minor reason--but fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 06:41 PM

Probably platt deutsch and not hoch deutsch.

I was in a store in Amish country once (this is the first time since 1971 that I have NOT worked in Amish country) with my wife and a friend. The friend was quite fluent in German, and she later regaled us with what the Amish "girls" (not yet churched) were saying. She was especially tickled when one of them made a comment about her and she answered in German -- the young lady was embarassed! (Never use a language that is not your own for making comments about others!)

(The same sort of thing happened to the father of friend in Sneem, Ireland -- the man's home town. He was sitting in the pub, quietly having a pint or six, and he overheard a couple of locals talking about "the yank over there" in Gaelic. Well...I leave the rest of story to your imagination. Suffice to say that the man is very fluent in Irish....)

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 05:52 PM

So, Ebbie, did you grow up speaking German--or a form of it? Did they speak it at church services? It's amazing the number of people who don't know that Pennsylvania Dutch is actually Pennsylvania Deutsch.

Subject: RE: BS: Sitting At The Kitchen Table
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 06 - 03:00 AM

Not in the way we used the word, Ron. We used it in the sense of a hymn as in das geistliche Lied. Lieder,. to us, were basically church songs.