Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: Ross
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 03:10 AM

It's a granite plateau but quite high in places

Around Bodmin in particular

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodmin_Moor

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: acegardener
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 03:34 AM

I would be more inclined to associate the beauty of Kashmir with the saffron producing crocus.

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: GUEST,John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 04:41 AM

Kashmir Easy Elegance one of several varieties of rose which have Kashmir as part of their nomenclature.

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: Ged Fox
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 01:54 PM

"Beautiful Cashmere" in the earliest (1901) printed version that anyone has mentioned in Mudcat.
I, for no good reason, have always favoured the Himalayan balsam option, although I have not seen any nineteenth century source that backs that up.
What I did notice recently in a History of Hawick, was the fact that Himalayan balsam (along with giant hogweed) was introduced in the nineteenth century to the river Teviot by the processing of cashmere wool. The wool contained the seeds of those two plants which were washed out and subsequently naturalised themselves along the river. Given that the plants were new to the area, what would the locals have called them other than the beautiful cashmere plant and the other one?

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: doc.tom
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 02:44 PM

Fascinating creative interpretations in this thread - wonderful speculative folklore!

I can hardly believe this has come up again. The 'Beauty of Cashmere' was a Victorian variety of rose with a characteristic of a very heavy head which made it droop - or hang down (rather like Ena Harkness does). I don't know what they sing in Cadgwith, but Charlie Bate, Mervyn and the crew always sang 'Beauty of Cashmere' - on the other hand Tommy Morrisey and Charlie Pitman sang 'beautiful Kashmir'. Thus it changed within the same area within 15 years when there was no explanation by which to retain the original.

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: Ged Fox
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 03:56 PM

Then please account for why the earliest known printed version was "beautiful cashmere," over half a century before Charlie Bate & company.

Also, in spite of the frequent assertion that "Beauty of Cashmere" was a Victorian rose, no-one, on Mudcat at least, has provided any evidence of that 'fact.' Do you have a nineteenth century catalogue or a nineteenth century description of a garden or hot-house in which such a rose was displayed?

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: GUEST,Haz
Date: 05 Sep 17 - 06:52 PM

Could it be a tulip? They were once Extremely valuable about the time the song was written? And they droop their heads

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: GUEST,Lady gardener
Date: 08 Aug 19 - 02:50 PM

I’ve long puzzled over this line, & have come to the conclusion that in searching for a flower I was barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. The flowers in the song are mentioned by name, but no blossoming plant corresponds to ‘beauty of Kashmir’. But what does correspond, in both growth & beauty, is a tree, the Kashmir cypress, with its graceful weeping habit. It would certainly be present on English estates by the time this song was written, & would no doubt be much admired.

Subject: RE: Cadgwith Anthem - what's that flower?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 11:40 AM

Since the verses are about robbers, and the Shah of Iran gave a breeding pair of Kashmiri Goats to Queen Victoria, from which was bred a large herd, which was split at least once to send some to The Great Orme, in Llandudno, I wonder if it was a hunted (or poached) Kashmiri goat which was referred to? The males are beautiful, and very long horned and could well be referred to as The Beauty of Kashmir (Cashmere). Also, the hunting fraternity was always keen for different 'sport', as they thought of it - and some
certainly took up goat hunting in Scotland. There are feral goats near Lynton in Devon, I wonder if one of the 'great houses' in Cornwall, might have acquired some Kashmiri goats, and used them for hunting, or had a prize specimen poached? (by these 'robbers')