BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 07:29 PM

Whatever the age limit (and I like Mrs. Duck's not between 13 and 21, was it?)

             vote should be weighed, not counted.



Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 05:51 PM

"What does being old enough to get killed have to do with voting? They are not even remotely related."

Well, I think the idea is, voting is supposed to give the teenage boys the illusion that they have something to say about whether they go to war or not...

Perhaps a better idea would be to let kids be kids and not allow them to vote until they're 21, and follow Malvina's suggestion and send the Gentlemen of Distinction to the Army.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 03:20 PM

There's something to be said for putting off the voting age a few years, to give a chance for people to build-up a bit of pent-up frustration about being messed around with by government, so that when they get tghe vote they see that as more significant.

Forty might be about right. And that stuff about how people inevitably move to the right as they get older is questionable. In the British political scene older Labour people tend to be well to the left of where the party has got to these days. Hence Old Labour, New Labour.

I rather suspect the same would apply with Democrats in the States, especially if you set on one side the essentially non-political cultural matters that are given prominence over hard-core political issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST,Janine
Date: 08 Mar 06 - 02:58 PM

Watch the hidden agenda!
When the age of majority was lowered from 21 to 18, 'Great said the 18 year olds: we can marry without parental consent, vote and do lots of other things'. Including having parties at 18 and 21 as well!' 'But now you have to pay for all things at 18 which were free before till 21,'says the government.
Expect similar.
Janine

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:41 PM

"What does being old enough to get killed have to do with voting? They are not even remotely related."

Yeah, one actually means something.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:39 PM

No. Politicians spend most of their time screwing the people who voted for them. Sixteen-year-olds aren't legally old enough to be screwed. So, if they were allowed to vote all those politicians would be guilty of statutory rape.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:36 PM

What does being old enough to get killed have to do with voting? They are not even remotely related.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Essex Girl
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:55 AM

I don't think it makes a lot of difference what age you can vote at. School children (and that's what the government is striving to make all under 18's) have a lot more to think about than which bunch of hypocrites is better than another. My son (17) is beginning to get interested in politics, mainly because he is studying economics, but when asked about the vote said he wouldn't bother anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 07:21 AM

16 years olds may join with parental consent, but don't get sent on active service at that age.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 06:59 AM

yes they should I mean they are old enough to get killed so they should be able to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 05:37 AM

For Joe Offer

"Well, my mom and papa told me
Now you better earn some money
If you wanna use the car to go
Ridin' next Sunday
Well, I didn't go to work
I told my boss I was sick
He said, "You can't use the car
'Cause you didn't work a lick"

Summertime Blues...Eddie Cochrane


Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:15 PM

But none of them caused the complete collapse of Society...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:47 PM

This is very like the arguments about the abolition of the property qualification to vote, the abolition of the university votes, and votes for women, you know. A bit like the rights of "inferior races" to vote. I think we all know how we feel and how we ought to feel about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 11:37 AM

There is a 16-yr-old boy living in this house. On good days, I acknowledge him as my stepson. He thinks he knows everything, except how to do chores.
Does thinking you know everything qualify you to vote?

Right now, we're negotiating to receive physical labor and a modicum of responsibility, in exchange for occasional use of the car. Negotiations are not going well. We're losing.

Despite all that, I kinda like the kid - but I can hardly wait until he grows into a civilized adult, like my kids are....

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:39 AM

A minor observation for tarheel:

I VOTE and I PAY TAXES....
so far,the 16 year olds in this country do neither!!!!

The first year in which I paid US Federal Income Taxes I was barely 13. And I'd had to file my return the previous year, and paid Social Security taxes both years.

Although I don't have the records for him, I believe my son filed his first Income Tax return at 13 or 14, but was probably 15 or so before he made enough to actually pay income tax. He very definitely started paying into Social Security before he turned 15.

Neither of us particularly felt the need to vote at such ages though, and I agree with what I sense as the prevailing opinion here that 16 is seldom a sufficiently mature age for doing so.

Im not sure that at 18 people are generally prepared to consider issues and vote rationally, but by then most of the ones that aren't probably never will be.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:33 AM

16 year olds are only thinking of one thing and it aint politics

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 05:35 PM

nothing to worry about till the cast of neighbours form a political party.....

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:42 AM

In some countries with a lower level of reading and written literacy, they use ballot papers with pictures on them.

You wanna vote for yer elephant or yer ass?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:57 PM

I think it would be a good idea to have every person who is going to vote be able to pass a test wherein they demonstrate a basic understanding of the country's laws, government structure, etc. The test could be given in written, oral or sign language form.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 09:20 PM

I'll pay that one. it allows for an 'abstain' vote without voting 'informal' - where you write in 'Mickey Mouse' or scribble obscenities on the paper...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:09 AM

Compulsory voting is the way to go, but with one proviso, there should be a last box to tick on every ballot paper that says "None of the above"
If the result is that more ticks are put in that box than in any other, then the contest should be re-run with different candidates. Now that would give people a place to express their distaste for a particular politician or party, and save them having to vote for an opposition party as the only protest vote available to them.
It would work for me!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 09:36 AM

It's a very good idea and most people in oz vote, and get fined if they dont. We don't have large portions of the population who dont vote. even the poorest people have a right to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:22 AM

I've always thought that mandatory voting was a good idea, but when I read complaints from OZ, I have to wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:28 AM

IMO No they should not.

Foolestroupe, just a slight correction to your post of 01 Mar 06 - 08:56 PM, in which you state

"...with the USA now producing 'micro nukes' deliberately intended to be used as 'bunker busters', etc, the madness of 'The Cold War' will seem mild."

What is your source for that?

As far as I am aware the project to develop a nuclear version of the conventional 'bunker buster' was cancelled ages ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:33 PM

"Chill out then because they won't even show up."

In Australia, voting has been compulsory since the 1920's. Little Johnny is trying to make voting non-compulsory now too - just like his bum buddy George...


Hmmmmm, is that 'bum buddy' or 'bum' buddy...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 01:46 PM

..."The fact that some dumb, game playing, fashion obsessed, glotal stopped,Sun reading, alcoholic,Soap obsessed, teenager can cancel out my vote by just turning up at the booth makes me mad!"


Chill out then because they won't even show up.
The younger voters are the most under-represented in elections. Their own fault. Apathy about voting causes many to just not bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM

Don't worry Kendall my post about who reads what newspaper wasn't aimed at anybody either.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 12:54 PM

Paul, you miss my point. It wasn't about voting.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:41 AM

Tarheel - surely if a 16 year old earns enough they pay taxes - they do in the UK. The way I see it from recent elections the turnout is steadily diminishing and and our glorious leaders have started to thrash around for anyone who can hold a pencil and make a mark to give their positions some sort of credibility. (plus if they move to computer voting only those aged 16 and under will be able to fathom out how to it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:34 AM

I know Giok..couldn't resist it!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:14 AM

In ancient times, kendall, no one had the vote. And most people had no property either.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:07 AM

In ancient times, people didn't live much past 40, so by the time a boy was 18 he was considered to be an adult, having reached the "Age of majority". However, when it came to inheritance, all that legal gobbldegoook took about three years to get ironed out, so by then he is 21. It all means very little these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: tarheel
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:30 AM

The one BIG reason i cherish my Freedom in the good ole USA, is the I VOTE and I PAY TAXES....
so far,the 16 year olds in this country do neither!!!!
if they are old enought to VOTE,then they should be old enough to PAY their fair share of TAXES,too!!!
tar...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:17 AM

Guest there are two Ts in glo'al !
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:59 AM

No Way at 16. They know nothing yet. I think we give people the vote far too easily. it should be something studied for like the driving test and an exam should be taken to prove you have the necessary knowledge to make an informed decision as to how you wish to vote. Having the vote should become a badge of citizenship that has to be earned. You want a say in how things run? Then show an interest and acquire the knowledge.
The fact that some dumb, game playing, fashion obsessed, glotal stopped,Sun reading, alcoholic,Soap obsessed, teenager can cancel out my vote by just turning up at the booth makes me mad!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:20 AM

Not a Tory either,but many people think that the Torygraph gives the best coverage of scientific issues.
BTW John, if you like crosswords try "The War Cry" sometime.
One Across -"Son of God"(5) Toughie!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:11 AM

No, I was characterising YOU as reading the paper, not the paper as being read by you...

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 05:07 AM

I do read the Daily Telegraph on a Saturday which is the only day I buy a newspaper. It has about 10 sections half of which I don't read, the rest keeps me amused for at least 3 days. We do the crosswords and we laugh at the letters to the editor, we spread the paper on the floor at night for our old incontinent dog to pee on, which I suspect you may agree with Paul☺
I vote Scottish nationalist and I have no idea how my partner votes as it is none of my business. So characterising a paper as being read by people who vote a certain way is at best an iffy pastime.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 04:59 AM

Non.
Neither should politicians be allowed to stand for election. If they want to be elected, that by itself should disqualify them. Public office should be a duty, not a reward.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 04:37 AM

So you do read the Torygraph then. There are other papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 04:33 AM

Should one read the Labour supporting,[for their own ends], red top rags with the tits on page 3 in order to get their news? If they want news of Beyonce and the characters in the soaps yes.
If the only papers that carry any intelligent articles are mainly right leaning politically, then it is up to the intelligent reader to detect any political bias and dismiss it.
Bias is in the mind of the beholder in most cases.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 03:48 AM

"The politics of envy"- you've been reading the Torygraph too much. I suppose the politics of envy are worse than the politics of gluttony, lust, anger, pride, avarice and sloth, or any of the other Seven Deadly Firemen.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:15 PM

Yes, people do resent natural inequality. No doubt about it. It's unfortunate, but they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:58 PM

People also resent natural inequality not just the imposed variety, the rich resent the poor and the poor resent the rich, and in the UK the Labour Party has been exploiting this by indulging in the politics of envy, otherwise known as Socialism, for many years.
That in itself is a good enough reason for 16 YOs not to be given the vote.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:51 PM

Foolestroupe, it was inevitable that people WOULD fight against slavery! ;-) I mean, hell, Spartacus did, didn't he? People have been fighting against slavery ever since it first began, and they will always fight against it...

People will always fight against any and all forms of institutionalized inequality, because the soul detests enforced inequality above all else.

They did experiments with monkeys, giving better rewards to some than to others for performing the same tasks. The ones who got the poorer rewards got mad, went on strike, and wouldn't do anything at all after awhile. They also got in fights with the better rewarded monkeys.

Same principle. The monkeys did not like enforced inequality. They recognized that it was "not fair".

It is inevitable that such unfair systems will meet resistance, and the resistance will eventually change or end the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:37 PM

They are affected by governments, so why not vice versa?

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:22 PM

Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:17 PM

It wasn't that bad (like Logan's Run). They just made them retire and have to drop acid.

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:56 PM

"everybody over 30 gets shipped off to LaLaLand."

REENEEEW! REEENEEEEWWW!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should 16 year olds get the vote
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:35 PM

I'm not happy with 18 year old voting when they can't even hold a conversation! Now 12 year old are a different matter but take away the vote between 13 and 21.