Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G

Subject: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme
From: GUEST,Jyoti_M
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:26 PM

I am trying to find out the origins of the skipping rhyme which contains "sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G." Most of my searches so far have provided me with versions of the rhyme, but not its history.

J.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 04:11 PM

We sang it in the early 50s in NYC. It's a start. Azizi will probably have some info.
M.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: KT
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 04:32 PM

(So 'n so) and (so 'n so), sittin' in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G!
First comes love
Then comes marriage
Then comes (so 'n so ) in the baby carriage!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I
From: NH Dave
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 04:57 PM

Scott E. Hastings documented it in his book Miss Mary Mack all Dressed in Black, in the northern part of Vermont back in the 30's, which means it was much older and came from somewhere else originally.

Dave

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:15 PM

GUEST,Jyoti_M, since K-I-S-S-I-N-G is a folk rhyme, it probably is impossible to figure out where it came from. The best you might be able to do is find out the earliest publication date such as the information NH Dave provides.

I have different versions of this children's rhyme but no clue as to its earliest publication dates.

My interest is more in how rhymes are used and what they say about the children reciting them. K-I-S-S-I-N-G is often used as a jumprope or handclap rhyme. It is often used as a midly taunting rhyme that is directed at the children named in the verse as KT posted. However, I think that the last line is more often {insert girl's name} "with" a baby carriage. Or at least, "with a baby carriage" makes more sense than "in a baby carriage."

One thing you can say about this rhyme is that is at least girls are being socialized to expect that love & marriage should come before having babies. And that's good.

I'm wondering if an earlier version was {girl's name} and {boy's name} behind a tree. K.I.S.S.I.N.G. [not in a tree].

Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. I'll have to do some research, and maybe I'll find out some more info. And maybe I won't, but it will be fun doing so.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:25 PM

I remember it as "in a baby carriage" from Detroit in the 1950's - just like KT posted. Doesn't make sense, but sometimes kids don't...

Maybe it was supposed to be "and a baby carriage" - not that we were quite able to make the connection (kids in Detroit were innocent in those days).

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 11:05 PM

You're right Joe. Kids rhymes don't have to make sense.

And I like the idea that the words might have originally been "and a baby carriage".

But in my neck of the woods {Atlantic City, NJ, 1950s} I seem to remember saying "with a baby carriage". So I'm right too.

So there!

LOL!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 12:42 AM

In Windsor, across the river from Detroit, in the 1960's it was "[boy's name] IN a baby carriage". A more sophisticated child explained to me that the boy's name actually indicated [boy's name]-JUNIOR in the baby carriage.

I had no choice but to accept this interpretation; otherwise I would have gotten hurt - or worse, been declared a social outcast. I'm telling ya, they were rough times.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 05:50 AM

In Greeley, Colorado and Avon, Massachusetts, where I spent some formative years, we followed the same interpretation as GUEST, thurg- IN a baby carriage, naming a third child, apparently the offspring of the previous 2.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: Azizi
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:47 AM

I double checked with my daughter this morning about her memory of this rhyme {Pittsburgh, PA 1980s}. What she remembers conforms with the "in a baby carriage" last line. She said she doesn't remember jumping rope or doing handclaps with this rhyme. Her memory was that it was just said "to tease somebody".

But Alice C's version from Cleveland conforms with my memory of that line:

Subject: RE: Naughty kids'greatest hits
From: Alice C. (of Cleveland) - PM
Date: 24 Sep 97 - 10:18 PM

Hi there--and especially to Jerry ___ who does indeed remember the same local versions as I do! How delightful. I was at Fairfax Elementary 1971-76. And you?

Hey, does anyone else remember this playground taunt -- let's say you want to embarass two other kids named Richard and Kathy:

Kathy loves Richard,
Sittin' in the tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love,
Then comes marriage,
Then comes Kathy with the baby carriage!
Suckin' her thumb,
Chewin' her pants,
Doin' the hootchy-kootchy dance!

-snip-

I hope that I didn't commit a cardinal sin by reposting this.
If so, please accept my apologies.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:32 AM

I dont know this rhyme at all, either because it never reached England or because I was too clumsy to play skipping (and went home to dinner, so missed the chance). But if it was a skipping rhyme my guess would be 2 children in the (long) rope together, then a 3rd called in "in a baby carriage" as child of first 2, then first child steps out and 2nd & 3rd are KISSING.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:38 AM

This was used in Britain relatively recently as an advertising jingle.
Never came across it in my own schooldaze but a younger acquaintence says it was popular at her school during the Eighties.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 07:18 AM

Mo the caller, if I understand the first part of your guess, you are suggesting that maybe the name of a 3rd child is called, and that child "in a baby carriage" represents the offspring of the first two children.

Hmmm. From the examples that I've seen thus far-on Mudcat and elsewhere-there's no indication that 3 different children's names are called.

Also I don't think that your guess that "[when the 3rd child jumps in the rope]the first child steps out and 2nd & 3rd are KISSING" is likely given the fact that these jump rope rhymes are most often performed by girls only. Besides, for the most part girls of jump rope age {5-12 years or so} wouldn't dare kiss a boy in public {or in private?}..Not to mention that the two childrenyou have in your guess who are kissing are not the "mother and father" but the parent and baby...which seems to go against the mild naughtiness-if not mild taunting//teasing nature of the rhyme.

But as an esteemed person reminded me {us?} upthread, these rhymes don't have to make sense, so, in some corners of the world, there may be children who chant this rhyme and perform it just as you guessed.

****

There are a number of other examples of K-I-S-S-I-N-G on Mudcat threads that have the last line "with a baby carriage"-not that this is "the right" last line for this rhyme, but it's not an uncommon line....

****

BTW, Joe Offer, or Joe Clones-would you please post a listing of other Mudcat children's rhyme threads below this thread's title?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: GUEST,Bla bla bla
Date: 14 Jul 12 - 10:27 AM

The version I know is "[girl] and [boy] sitting in a tree KISSING
First comes love
Then comes marriage
Then comes a baby in a golden carriage
That's not all, that's not all [girl] is playing basketball
That's not all, that's not all [boy] is drinking alcohol
That's not all, that's not all the baby's peeing on the wall

The last bit is a little weird...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 01:45 PM

I remember it as a jump-rope rhyme (1960s, southern Indiana):

[Boy Name] and [Girl Name] sittin' in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G.
First comes love, second comes marriage,
Then comes [Girl Name] with a baby carriage.
How many babies will there be?
1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . .
(etc., until you miss a step jumping rope, which you ended up doing because you started laughing so hard in thinking about the couple in question having soooooo many babies!)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: GUEST,Russell
Date: 28 Jan 23 - 07:53 AM

I got to looking because I just saw episode 76 of Leave it to Beaver (1958) where he ends up climbing up into a tree with classmate Linda Dennison. Once his friends found out, they start the teasing but no reference to the rhyme.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origin of skipping rhyme - K-I-S-S-I-N-G
From: GUEST,GUEST, ad
Date: 19 Jun 23 - 05:39 PM

(Northern Virginia) Very recent but in the 2000s it went around my elementary school as

Blank and Blank
Sitting in a tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First comes love
Then comes marriage
Then comes a baby in a baby carriage
That’s not all, that’s not all
The baby started playing basketball
That’s not all, That’s not all
The daddy started drinking alcohol

It’s interesting how much the ending changes with location or decade.