BS: Sir Paul & the seals

Subject: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 01:32 PM

I see Sir Paul McCartney is headed for the seal hunt.

I hope he is careful. There are only two Beatles left in the world. One of these rare creatures may be in grave danger. With about 4000 seal hunters depending on the hunt to put food on the family table, Sir Paul is taking a bit of a risk. No matter what you think of the seal hunt, if an unfortunate accident befalls him, we will be left with only one Beatle... and you know which one.

How can you help? Send money to Saint Paul. How can you not help? Look at that cute face, those innocent eyes, and send money, before one of those nasty, hungry sealers changes diet.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 02:22 PM

He'd be better employed giving some of his billions of pounds alleviating world hunger and helping with WHO projects in Africa. Apparently there's not enough cheap publicity in that one.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 02:29 PM

Somehow knew this thread (before opening) was yours gnu. Who else but a maritimer or Newfoundlander could see the other side of this issue.

The quota alloted to the seal hunt helps keep the seal population from overpopulating ... which in itself affects other species. More importantly it provides the only way to make a 'decent living' to a community of people living on the coastal waters of Newfoundland that have been all but forgotten an neglected from the rest of Canada if not the rest of the world.

Expect to take some flak from this gnu.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 02:30 PM

Good point Giok !

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: MMario
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 02:54 PM

I wonder what those four choppers are costing? Not to mention the other legs of the trip - and what is being spent on food and housing for the reporters etc during the trip?

I suspect the total dollar cost of this protest is significant when compared to the income from the seals.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 03:02 PM

Flak? Can't see what for. Just because some superstar from a few thousand miles away parachutes in from his private jet to mouth off about something he hasn't got a clue about?

Oh, golly gosh darnit! I forgot to mention. He needs enough money to put food on the table for those 4000 sealers and their families. A Paultry (yup) Cdn$17M should do it. Please be sure to add about 5% on your post-dated cheques for future years to cover cost of living increases.

Like I said, I am neither for nor against the seal hunt. I just want Paul and the rest of the crew to be safe so they can get back on their jets and have their servants bring them some freshly farmed salmon and champagne. After all, do you really want Ringo talking about the tragic clubbing of Paul on Oprah, and Leno, and Leterman, and....

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: leftydee
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 03:07 PM

These men that kill seals aren't doing it for fun. This is a job and if Brother Paul would like to save the seals maybe he could help subsidize the sealer's families and quit grandstanding. I was going to say "I respect his opinion" , but I don't. Maybe, he thinks they should all be rock stars and give up this line of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 03:25 PM

Another example of Southern Moral Imperialism.

I'm not from the Maritimes, but I agree with gnu et al.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: shepherdlass
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:55 PM

Well, gnu, Sir Paul presumably won't be having any farmed salmon as his principles do extend to vegetarianism. Increased adoption of such a diet (ie growing grains to feed people rather than the animals destined for the rich world's table) might actually do something to reduce world hunger. The old cliche that the protesters love animals more than people really doesn't hold up in most cases.

As for moral imperialism ...   Should we, say, have encouraged the continuation of bear-baiting or (for those who see humans as above all other considerations) foot-binding on the basis that they provided jobs and we didn't want to be moral imperialists?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:59 PM

Perfectly reasonable IMHO. He's asking for the Canadian government to consider providing an alternative that would mean no hardship for those who depend on sealing. McCartney gives year after year to charities. He's a musician -- like you -- and he has provided incalculable happiness to billions of people for decades. Top bloke.

The seal hunt, like the Calgary Stampde, is a national disgrace.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:04 PM

What strange examples to use, you are comparing a commercial activity with a folk custom and a so called sport.
In the same way as you imply that animals are consuming grain that should go to farmers, you can justify the culling of seals because they eat the fish that would otherwise feed human beings.
It's a circular argument, and is like the cannibal who said that if God hadn't meant him to eat people, he shouldn't have made them of meat!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John O'L
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:12 PM

So, just hyperthetically, what do you reckon you'd get for a beatle-pup pelt?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:25 PM

Well, well, well... just watched the evening news. Watched a grown man and woman laying three feet behind a baby seal while a camera crew lay in front of it, blocking it's escape. I heard it cry. Cruel way to treat a poor helpless animal.

And, after listening to the ATV reporter who talked to his nibbs, it is evident Paul knows little about the seals or the seal hunt. Trying to conserve a population that has tripled in the past thirty years to well over six million? Ecotourism will put food on the tables of the sealers? Strange that a man worth $2B isn't better informed.

That's right... $2B. I hope he tipped the chopper pilot well.

I wonder if he will accept the Newfoundland Premier's invitation to discuss the hunt?

I wonder if Sir Paul and those filmed today will be charged for breaking the law? It appears he is ignorant of the laws of Canada regarding the harassment of wild animals.

Lass... Paul doesn't eat salmon? That's good because there are hardly any left. Perhaps we could get them to pet a salmon for the camera? Nor did I see any bear-baiting or foot-binding on the news today. Don't know anything about it. And, it appears you don't know anything about the seal hunt. I hope you sent Paul a few bucks... with only $2B in his pocket, I'm sure he could use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:36 PM

Hmm... I can see where this is going. Nowhere. So, I think I'll just say it one last time.

I am against people who don't know or who don't understand what's going on telling those who do that they don't. That includes "top blokes".

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:50 PM

I don't think his intention is to tell anyone what to do, gnu. I think he's asking. Using a celebrity spokesdude is a fairly standard communication tactic.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: The Badger
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 08:07 PM

The thought of a harpooned Sir Paul has a certain appeal. Mind you, it would have to be a hefty harpoon to get through his ego!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 08:10 PM

It was idiots who ended the seal hunt that helped cause the closure of the cod fisheries. Lots more seals around and therefore lots more seal shit. The cod eat it. Worms like no tomorrow. (They had some help from the factory ships--the Norwegians, Russians, Americans, etc.) Let's then talk about unemployment . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:20 PM

Let's talk about the results of the Danish government's investigation into that godawful TV show about harp seals. And if you want to see the results of Southern Moral Imperialism, go visit the Arctic peoples -- talk with the Elders, then talk with the cops.

I'm outa this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:38 PM

I was at a lovely supper in the Codroy Valley of Newfondland about ten years ago. A dozen dinner guests, including the elderly lady from next door, Mary. She was in her early nineties, dressed in Sunday best, and ever so gracious for being invited out. Delicious meal, tasty wines, after dinner drinks, great conversation.

Lew and George were discussing the decline in salmon. I described my theory that the spawning grounds in New Brunswick had been destroyed by the forest industry clear cutting too close to the waters, such that the ground water retention was absent, resulting in runoff silting up the gravel beds, depriving the salmon eggs of shelter from birds and fish and also depriving them of oxygen.

In the fleeting moment of silent reflection and thought that followed, Mary, who hard hardly spoken a word, added, "Yis, b'y. And them fucking seals eats what's left."

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:46 PM

I watched a good cod cutter who worked for FPI. She and her husband gave me a guided tour inside a cod fish; showed me the way the fish were cut up for packaging; and they showed me the worms in the flesh of the fish. We have interfered in the natural order of things, and we continue to do so. Whales are 'harvested' by boats that give the whales NO chance; fish netted to near extinction. When the killing of seals was banned, it open another door for other types of animals to get sick, die off. Now, we have seals comin' out the yinyang. And Hollywood types who show up in leather shoes after eating bacon and eggs for breakfast really piss me off. It's not about morals. It's about publicity. It's sure as hell not about concern for animals, human or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 09:47 PM

Great story gnu! I love Mary already!
On the news they had Sir Paul and his wife flopping around on the ice with a young seal. Lucky that he didn't get bitten on the arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:18 PM

That happens to most musos who sign normal recording contracts!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:21 PM

I wonder what Macca's hide would fetch on E-bay?

(since they're selling just about everything else there now).

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:23 PM

"Oh, I'm sorry, ma'am.... but he WAS layin' on the ice."

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:56 PM

BigPinkLad...excellent points.

More power to McCartney and others who do try to make a difference, whether you agree with them or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 12:23 AM

Yeah, except they trot out a different celebrity spokesperson for this same cause every few years... Brigit Bardot, Mick Jagger, Martin Sheen, that McGyver dude. They come out, get a few pictures snaped, make their speech and shuffle on. Maybe it'll be Brittany Spears in 2010.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:06 AM

Peace... The big boats are destroying the fish and, hence, the stocks, with their big nets. It's not just that they catch "everything" and dump the cull or turn the junk fish into cat food and fertilizer. The same thing happens even when they catch into a school of the species they are after. The shear mass of fish in these big nets means that, depending on the species, up to 20% of a net can be so badly crushed that it can't be sent to market. In smaller species, this 20% can't even be used in fish sticks. Few large boats can pay for themselves by putting the cull in a hold for fertilizer, so it gets dumped.

Now, let's talk about draggers....

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 07:14 AM

Perhaps we could cull a few human beings, that would cut the demand for fish a bit?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnomad
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:21 AM

Perhaps we could recycle all our dead people as food (human/animal, your choice).

This would save energy used for cremations, and while I know the statesiders have lots of room, we west pond-siders are rapidly running out of space for graves.

The animal lovers could show how much they mean it by setting an example.

The extreme animal lovers could volunteer to be eaten alive by big predators.

We could sell tickets, TV rights, build a big arena.

Bigger prices for celebrity extinction by carnivore.

Now we're cooking, anyone know SirP's agent's number?


Matron? Not the nasty jacket again? The needle as well? Just when I was on a roll and about to make a mint.


But just to be serious a moment, I have no problem with "celebs" or anyone else expressing their views. They should, however, be properly researched views if they expect anyone to take notice.
They should also consider the environmental cost of how they express those views, unnecessary transatlantic flights & press choppers does not strike me as particularly responsible behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:30 AM

Seal populations compteting with the fisheries are an issue in a lot of places in the world, but they don't resort to dire "livelihoods" like this barbarity.

And I'm sorry, but it's only 40 families? Time to relocate them, then.

BTW, what have gnu, et al who are so quick to criticize Sir Paul for being a celebrity spokesmodel: what the hell have you done for the planet and humanity lately? Perhaps it's time to put your money where your mouth is...certainly plenty of Sir Paul's net worth has been.

Paul and Linda McCartney (as well as his new wife Heather) and their children aren't just vegetarians, but life-long animal rights activists. Not Johnny come latelys. They've always walked the talk.

How many of the Mudcat celebrity snipers can say that about themselves and their families?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:35 AM

And not only that 'GUEST' but they do it under their own names, show's they have the courage of their convictions.
While I disagree with their campaign I admire their willingness to stand up and be counted, and not to lurk behind a frontman like that well known Mr Guest.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:46 AM

40? Ah, 4000 sealers.

... "what the hell have you done for the planet and humanity lately?" First step is to get the facts straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:59 AM

I wasn't gonna post here again, but Jesus Christ!

What a pompous, unfeeling, uncaring attitude!

And I'm sorry, but it's only 40 families? Time to relocate them, then.

THIS is what is meant by Southern Moral Imperialism! MY morality is so far superior to yours that I can yank you from the your home and homeland, and I don't give a shit if you and yours HAVE lived there for perhaps thousands of years! I don't give a shit if I destroy your culture by doing so! We've done it to the Shoshone, the Blood, the Assinibone, the Inuit, the Aleut, the Sioux and that's not to mention those in Africa and Polynesia because OUR morals and culture are so superior to yours and besides, we have superior firepower.

Now I'm really outa this thread before I become angry.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: RichM
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:03 AM

Maybe the Mudcat needs a new category for this kind of discussion, which isn't going to change anyone's view.

Call it *VENT* or *RANT*

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:05 AM

Fuck you and your "Southern Moral Imperialism" crap Rapaire.

These seals are slaughtered for fashion fur. It's that simple.

I wouldn't care if it was 40,000 sealers. They are no more moral highground than the steelworkers who have been put out of their jobs, or the loggers put out of theirs, or the automakers put out of theirs...

Buy a clue, and join the REAL world.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:26 AM

Well said Rapaire.

The attitude would certainly be much different in regards to this seal hunt ... if the baby seals were not cute, chubby and white, but were scarggly creatures, with yellow teeth that resembled some subterranean rat .. you certainly would not have seen macca out there on an ice flow yesterday.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:37 AM

The average cost of rehabilitating a seal after the Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska was $80,000. At a special ceremony, two of the most expensively saved animals were released back into the wild amid cheers and applause from onlookers. A minute later they were both eaten by a killer whale.

Sir Paul et al are not only stupid, they are very rich stupid people.
The Newfoundlanders would prefer work of a better paid and regular nature, but need to hunt seals to help make a living. Instead of protesting why not start putting money into meaningful employment for Newfoundland?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:38 AM

Them little seals are shure cute, but they don't stay that way. With the white fur and dark eyes and smiling faces they tug at the heart. However they grow quickly and in about 3 weeks to a month even their mother no longer loves them. They are weaned and abandoned to fend for themselves with a very high mortality rate. A seal does not itself kill in a humain manner, and in a school of fish will bite off the tailfin of as many as it can so they can not swim away. It can then dine at it's leisure. With fish stocks low and seal populations high most young will face slow starvation. Mankind may appear cruel but Mother Nature is as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:39 AM

How about a Guest Cull?
Giok ☺

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:45 AM

And I have seen film of killer whales playing ,what I would describe as volleyball, with live seal pups (as the ball) before dining.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 10:29 AM

There is a war in Iraq at present that has killed over 25,000 people. Maybe some of the really top celebrities could concentrate some effort there.

Indeed McCartney has walked the walk as someone above said. That doesn't mean his path has necessarily been the one others would choose. The destruction of the seal industry was part and parcel of the destruction of the whole fur industry. Many trappers who depended on the 'harvesting' of furs to sell and then feed their families lost their livelihood. Not all could find other work. Trappers indeed in the last 50 years have taken care to leave the populations of the animals they depended on in good shape. The same cannot be said of oil companies. The same cannot be said of the draggers to which Gnu referred. Or the whale slaughters that STILL occur. Harp seals are not an endangered species; many whales are getting close to that point--the point at which they will no longer be able to sustain their breeding population. They then will sink into history. If people are going to 'protest' in this manner, then do the protest where it counts. Harp seals ain't it, IMO.

I too am off this thread with my ol' buddy, Rapaire. (Well, he's older 'n me, anyway.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 10:35 AM

Better Nature than humankind which is supposed to be of such high consciousness. All humankind has done is fucked up Nature to the point there are major problems in all areas. And, then, in a lot of cases, humankind keeps fucking it up in order to undue what's already been done.

Re' the helicopters etc. Publicity helps any cause such as this. Also, it was probably the safest for humans and the enviroment, to transport a bunch of people to the site then otherwise. A possibility posited on my part, not knowing for sure.

I am all for putting money into finding other industries for workers and people remaining where they have been for so long.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 11:01 AM

On the front page of the Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada, Times & Transcript newspaper today is a pic of those twits two feet from a seal pup and the poor pup is obviously scared shitless, with it's mouth agape, either bawling for Mum or hoping to get a bite in self-defense. I would love to see one of those assholes get a nasty bite for being so cruel to that poor little defenseless pup.

Where was Paul a few weeks ago when the pups were dying on the beaches because of the lack of ice for birthing? I'll bet there wasn't any ice around his little punt.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 11:15 AM

This may help a bit... probably not... from CP...

McCartney cooed and spoke softly as he came almost nose to nose with bawling pups on the frozen expanse.

Nearby, worried mother seals peered anxiously from areas of open water, clearly frightened by the men and women who so desperately want to be their saviours.

At one point, a prone Heather McCartney began to pet one of the furry pups, which turned and snapped, narrowly missing her hand. Federal regulations prohibit people from touching marine mammals.

"These are such beautiful animals and in about three weeks from now this whole place will be a sea of red and these pups we are seeing today will be dead just for their fur," a genuinely upset Paul McCartney told reporters on the ice.

"It's something that shouldn't be happening in this day and age."

Jean-Claude Lapierre of the sealers association on Iles de la Madeleine said the hunt will go ahead as planned, despite McCartney and hunt protesters.

"These people don't understand what the hunt means to us," Lapierre said at the local airport where he greeted McCartney but didn't get an opportunity to debate the issue.

"It's an important part of our lives."

The most recent figures suggest the industry, which started in the 1700s, was worth between $15 million and $20 million annually and employed up to 10,000 people, most of them in Newfoundland. Supporters argue that income from the harvest is vital to remote communities with few other economic opportunities.

The McCartneys, longtime animal rights activists, noted the Canadian government had approved a three-year management plan in 2003 that set the total quota for harp seals at 975,000 - a move that prompted renewed outrage among conservation groups.

Phil Jenkins, a spokesman for the federal Fisheries Department, said he took the opportunity to make Ottawa's case directly to McCartney when he spoke with him during a flight into Charlottetown on Wednesday night.

"Sir Paul McCartney said that he had heard that the seal population was declining and there was a conservation issue," Jenkins said.

"In fact, the seal population is at 5.8 million animals and that's about triple what is was in the 1970s."

Jenkins said he was concerned by the McCartneys' decision to pose with the youngest harp seals, known as whitecoats, because hunters have been banned from killing them since 1987.

Under federal rules, harp seals must not be killed until they lose their white fur. That can happen in as little as 12 days, but most of the seals taken are about 25 days old, the Fisheries Department says.

Thursday's protest was organized by the Humane Society of the United States and the British-based group, Respect for Animals.

"This is the biggest thing that has ever happened in the seal campaign," said Rebecca Aldworth, spokeswoman for the Humane Society of the United States.

"Paul and Heather McCartney are two of the most visible people in the world and they are two of the strongest animal protection people in the world. Them taking a stand for seals today will help us to bring a final end to the commercial seal hunt."

She said the proposed licence buyback program should include compensation for lost income.

"Given that the federal government subsidized the return of the commercial seal hunt (between 1996 and 2001) we think this would be a good investment to see its end," Aldworth said.

Earlier, the McCartneys released a statement describing the hunt as brutal, and they cited a 2001 independent veterinarian report that concluded close to half of the seals killed were likely still conscious when skinned.

The Fisheries Department says it has an independent report that suggests otherwise.

"Sometimes a seal may appear to be moving after it has been killed; however seals have a swimming reflex that is active - even after death," the department says on its website.

"This reflex gives the false impression that the animal is still alive when it is clearly dead."

The department has also insisted Canadians support Ottawa's policies, citing a February 2005 Ipsos-Reid poll that concluded 60 per cent of those surveyed were in favour of a "responsible hunt."

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Dazbo
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 11:15 AM

I saw that photo this morning. My first thought:

That'd make a nice hat for a cold day like today.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 01:22 PM

Oooohhh, Danny b'y, the lads, the lads, are calling youuuuuu. From floe to floe, to rip Paul a new arsehooooole...

... on Larry King Live, CNN, tonight at 22:00h AST. Sir Paul versus Danny Williams. I don't think Paul knows what he's in for.

I recall about twenty years ago, I stopped at a gas station near Flat Bay. While the rather small fellah that owned the station was gassing up two motorcycles, his two wee lads of about six or seven, began trying to get up on one of shiny, monster Hogs, un-noticed by their father. A huge, burly Hell's Angel came out of the station and let out a roar.

The wee lads vanished in a cloud of dust. Before the owner could say a word, the biker let go a torrent of "pissed off", interjected with the odd profanity. At the end, he turned kitty corner, pointed to his colours and asked something like, "Don't you know who we are?"

The Newf asked, "No. Who might ye be?"

Astonished, the biker said, "That's the colors of the Hell's Angels and about three hundred of us just got off the ferry."

The Newf paused, and asked, "Do you know who I am?"

Biker, with disdain, "Who the fuck are you?"

Newf, slowly, and seriously, "Well, I, sir, am a Newfoundlander. There's about six hundred thousand of us on this Island. How the fuck are ye gettin off it?"

The biker look stunned for about two seconds, and took to laughing. He gave the owner a hundred dollar tip, U.S.

The bikers left and the owner started pumping my gas. He gave me a nod and a wink and said, "Tree 'undred of 'em, eh b'y. I 'ope dey all stops 'ere."

Apparently, that biker had a bit more sense than Saint Paul.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 01:38 PM

I hear Sir Paul and wife are next planning to show up at a few Morris Dances in their own country to protest the indignities practiced during that debased ritual.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 01:42 PM

For the 99.99% of folks on this forum who never heard of him, Danny Williams is the premier of Newfoundland and Labrador. A politician, lawyer, and former president of OIS Fisher, an offshore oil and gas supply and services company vs Paul McCartney, former Beatle and spokesman for not smashing seal's heads in.

It should be interesting. I doubt it will change the opinion of those of us who have come down one side or the other on this topic. Plus ca change ...

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 01:49 PM

I'll bet you're right, Pinky.

He's very clean, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 02:49 PM

seal luvs you yeh yeh yeh
seal came in thru the bathroom window

I'm glad Paul has come out of the closet on this one - instead of putting hidden meanings in his song lyrics. If you play Yesterday backwards, it sounds a bit like Eskimos Piss Off!

can't all be just coincidence

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 03:05 PM

The Inuit don't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 03:11 PM

Perhaps the affinity is due to the walrus?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 03:15 PM

Koo koo ka choo?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Sonny Barger
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 05:43 PM

Look gnu, You got that story a bit twisted there. It was actually you I told to lay off the hogs. I also tipped the gas guy $400 U.S. Is Mick Jagger gonna be protesting this Seal pup hunt. If so, let your friends over in Newfoundland know, we will be showing up if he does.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 05:44 PM

Again, I must point out that I am not "in favour of killing seals". I have been against the killing of seals since 1983. I stayed at a boarding house in Makkovik, Labrador, while working on a survey crew on the construction of the airstirp in that rugged and beautiful spot.

We had seal for supper the first night after we arrived. We had seal for breakfast the next morning. We had seal for lunch, supper, breakfast, lunch, supper.... you get the idea. Finally, I asked Missus if there was else to eat. She offered caribou stew. I was elated. Until... well, let's just say there was no meat in it. But, I did not, and have not eaten seal since. If I ever eat seal again, I'll be as hungry as those who try to scratch a living out of sea, those whom Paul thinks are barbaric.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 05:57 PM

Gee... I just heard Paul talk on ATV. He made some good points. I was impressed. The lad seems to be getting up to speed. Thank goodness. Perhaps, if everyone were to get up to speed, we could see eye to eye without all the bullshit. And get down to the real problem, which is why I started this thread.

Save the Beatle.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:08 PM

Love ya, katdarlin, but I have to challenge one of your premisies. You said:

Better Nature than humankind which is supposed to be of such high consciousness

Why is it better that nature does it? Dead is dead. Nature often kills with much more cruelty and pain than does man. As to the consciousness of man, I would agree that much has been fouled up in the name of providing for mankind. And only mankind has the ability to affect whatever repairs need to be done. Much of what has been fouled has been done in order to provide habitat for humans. That is not to say that rampant sacrifice of resources to the detriment of our Mother is OK. It is to say that emotional comments without basis in fact are just as egregious from one side of the spectrum as the other.

Wo/Man is a predator. More importantly s/he is this way naturally. One need only look at ones teeth in a mirror to know that we are thus. Wo/Man has killed species for food and clothing for its entire history. This also is a naturally occurring condition. Further, every tribe, clan, group has taken animal hides, bones, and body parts for ornamentation. Whether they prayed to the Great Spirit in thanks for the gift, or they hooted into a cellphone to brag about the kill, this is a kill none the less.

The real question for me is whether there are alternatives, and should we force them on a people who have been doing this for generations. The first question is essy. Of course there are, but they require a committment of dollars (read that taxes), and many of those that cry for the seal pups are unwilling to pay. The second is much trickier. I do not believe that we should force anyone to give up their way of life, provided they are not endangering the species. These hunts are controlled very well, and apparently there is a market for the product. I can see no reason to force a people to live as something other than what they are, just because I am uncomfortable with the act of killing. I am also uncomfortable watching livestock being slaughtered, but I am not giving up eating meat anytime soon.

Death is death, Sir Paul. I wonder how many animals died from the pollutants created in the process of creating your synthetic parka? Wearing leather? You know the rest. I appreciate that you are committed, but I think your judgement is off a bit on this.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:23 PM

I'm impressed you're impressed, gnu. I also think you've come close to the truth with the 'eye to eye, cut the bullshit' statement. There are those in the shadows who would inflame the passions of either side in order to avoid tackling the fundamental problems around issues like this.

You may remember the problems we had in the 80s in BC with old growth forest. It became tree-huggers vs lumberjacks and got more and more bitter and divisive. While they fought it out McMillan-Bloedel et al quietly took the trees, took the money, took the jobs and buggered off.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 06:34 PM

he's a seal nowhere man

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnomad
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:16 PM

"Save the Beatle" eh Gnu? Dunno how to put this gently, so I'll just come straight out;

The survivors seem to have stopped breeding (may still be able, I dunno, but they ain't...producing) so I suspect your cause may be doomed, sorry.

OTOH, I wonder if anyone's tried taking cuttings, there must be a lot of DNA in souvenir albums to work from.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 08:46 PM

Well if you arn't from Newfoundland and you didn't have Uncles DIE triing to feed thier families on the ice because there is no other choice, and you believe all the shit that greenpeace tried to spew about the hunt being inhumaine than you my friend don't know what your talking about and you should Shut the fuck up!

I'll bet that the cows that Pauls daughter had killed for the leather for her fucked up fashion shows would have loved to be Killed quickly by a fast blow to the head instead if a slit throat!

I say we reunite the beatles! Paul should be with John and George instead of talking shit about things he's never known about.

They were the new kids on the block of the 60's anyway!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:16 PM

You heard it folks The all knowing Paul says Whale Watching is one of the top industries.

Thats what we do here in Ontario!
And on the Praries.

What a wanker

Chapman you got the wrong one!

Heather is a bimbo as well.

If Larry calls it NewFINland again I'm gonna shit!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John O'L
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:23 PM

"Chapman you got the wrong one!"

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: bobad
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:25 PM

Hey, do you think Paul Anka would try something like that?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:31 PM

Now the fuckers lieing about Stella using leather How convienent

Go stop the Fox hunt that is still happining in your country for sport

Or the inhumaine playing of the beatles shitty music!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:39 PM

When did heather get her PHD in vetrenary med? O thats right she's only a gold digging starfucker and should shut the fuck up!

I haven't been so upset at ignorance for a while!

When given facts like 90% are shot and seal overpopulation the McCartneys are ignoring the facts and not listening!

ASSHOLES

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:45 PM

They are messing with peoples lives spreading lies!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John O'L
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:48 PM

"But if this ever changing world
In which we're living
Makes you give in and cry
Say live and let die
Live and let die"

Lyrics by Sir Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:53 PM

When invited to newfoundland Paul said we're here! He can't tell PEI fron NFLD

Meanwhile heather won't shut up and listen to the anwsers she's asking for!

Lets club her!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:59 PM

"Williams suggested the pop icon duo were misinformed, noting that Paul McCartney had thought his protest trip Thursday had taken him to Newfoundland, when in fact he was in Prince Edward Island and later Quebec."

Hope someone tells him where his arse is, just in case he needs the bathroom while he's out an about.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 10:20 PM

Cut the old fab some slack. He never was any good at giving speeches, remember. Paul always was the boring one. And just because he sold a few hit records doesn't mean he knows shit about life outside his mansion. His life's been unreal and disconnected since his early 20s. He's just trying to do something he feels is constructive with the steady media attention he's had dogging him his whole adult life. He's just been misinformed by those who've recruited him and prodded him out there for the media attention he'll garner "for the cause".

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 03 Mar 06 - 10:40 PM

They where promoting Whale watching ... that in itself is pathetic and cruel .... everytime a whale surfaces here in the Fundy (during the summer) a flotilla of boats arrive, filled with tourists, literally racing from every which direction chasing the hapless animal ..... as if that isn't terrifying the creature.

I'm wondering why the humane society of the U.S. is involved in the Macca's publicity venture ... I'm sure there are many issues in their own back yard that deserve some high profile attention ... did the Macca's consult the humane society of Canada??

Overall ... it appears the Macca's should obtain more info ... or better still find a more urgent cause.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Boab
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 01:59 AM

When the first Scandinavians arrived in the north east coastal waters, they found waters teeming with cod. And seals by the hundred-thousand. I wonder who upset the balance? A long look in the nearest mirror would bring the answer to many. That many communities now depend upon this slaughter for much of their income is unfortunately too true. That this is so is a natural consequence of taking the too obvious and easy course---kill seals, sell furs.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:43 AM

I had a sneaky suspicion all along the it was the Scandinavians! Ever since I stayed at ANDERSON'S boarding house in Makkovik, Labrador, and was fed seal every meal. That seals it for me. I'm gonna ring up Paul and tell him to go straight to Scandinavia!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 07:07 AM

absolutely! bloody norwegians, they pick on those little sardines cos they can't defend themselves

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 07:58 AM

Of course man has destroyed more of the fishstock than seals! Bottom draggers harvesting fish is like digging carrots with a bulldozer. It destroys most of the crop and ruins the garden for future use, but it sure gets those carrots out of the ground in a hurry.
As the fishstock declined man refined his searching using sonar in order to locate and harvest more and more fish from a shrinking resource, until there was an insufficient breedstock to maintain the species. Only then did we stop this fishery, and we are now trying to allow it to recover. Seals always ate fish without threatening the species but that is no longer the case. Today the seals are eating the few fish left that are desperately needed to rebuild the stock. Unfortunately for the seal at this point he must pay to fix the problem even though it was not one of his creation. There seems to be no other solution now other than to reduce the seal population to try to put nature back in balance.
By the way there are still many draggers from Europe crossing the Atlantic to pillage the remaining stock of fish on the fringes of Canadian territory. Perhaps Sir Paul would do better to protest in Spain or Portugal.
         Obie

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:04 AM

Portuguese. Spaniard. I think the penalty for uttering these words in Newfoundland would... aaaaccckkkk.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:13 AM

The guy is overly self-righteous. I couldn't take any more after Silly Love Songs or whatever drivel that was. Larry King makes a fool of himself, Paul comes off a conceited over-funded, under-educated meddler, and patient Canadians are thinking, "This will pass, but why does he have to crap in OUR nest?".

Bet the wimpy bastard couldn't survive in the north for a winter, but I'm not sure what would get to him first, the meat, or his arrogant indignant condescension.

Paul should take his values to some part of the world where he can literally stand in the way of the bullet or better, the club, and where the natives aren't as polite as Canadians.

Respectfully, fuck off Paul.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 08:47 AM

There is a preponderance of overly self-righteous eejits in this thread, that's for sure.

Why do I get the feeling that this is another one of those "traditional manly pursuits" arguments?

It's always the same old justifications about why a handful of men should continue to be allowed a bit of barbarity:

A. My father's father's father...

B. It feeds me family...

C. It is a noble livelihood...

D. It is one of the rare bloodsports men can engage in for camraderie...

Or just choose all of the lame excuses above if you like.

This barbarity is no different (as someone pointed out early on) to the barbarity of Calgary, cock fighting, bullfighting, trophy hunting, dog fighting, fox hunting, etc etc ad nauseum.

It's what men are allowed to do when they aren't allowed to kill each other.

I disagree this is a pointless exercise because of the size of the seal population, or because there are other much worse things to worry about (fill in the blank--Katrina, Iraq, Darfur, the whales, etc). It is never a pointless exercise to shame barbarous traditions out of existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 09:02 AM

Oh, by the way--here are two links to excellent animal rights organizations with great information to counter the Mudcat pro-seal slaughter propaganda. I donate to PETA regularly, and when word went out around the world about the unbelievable increase in the slaughter this year, I also donated to one of the organizations fighting it:

http://www.harpseals.org/index.html

http://www.peta.org/

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 09:11 AM

And this one is for all you manly, traditional men to revel in.

Eat a steak for Christ, boys. We are all so relieved to know you are doing your part to defend the traditions that keep JLo and Paris Hilton in fur.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 09:13 AM

Who was it that once said " There are two sides to every story, lies and damn lies." It is too bad that we often swallow popaganda rather than make any effort to search for truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:00 AM

So Obie, where do you suggest a reasonable person goes to seek the truth about the global industries that thrive on animal abuse?

A field trip to a corporate fir or hog farm, or maybe your friendly neighborhood slaughterhouse? Or on those noble high seas so many here love to sing about, on a factory fish boat?

To the skinning factories?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:06 AM

I've been an active member of People for the Eating of Tasty Amimals all my life. But, I don't care for seal... or caribou... especially caribou stew made with only the tallow. It sticks to the roof of your mouth. And it stinks. Of course, you'd stink too if you were shot in summer and stuck on top of a pole to keep the flies off you because there was no refrigeration.

That reminds me of the caplin in Nain, Labrador. Since they can't be stuck on a pole, they were simply thrown on a roof. Near gagged the first time I saw a roof covered with caplin and the caplin covered with flies. Too bad Sir is a vegan type of vegetarian. He might have enjoyed sampling such a culinary delight.

I hope none of these guys ever find out about Dog Island. Bad Nagooktooks! Bad!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:11 AM

Actually gnu, according to today's National Post:

Jack Troake, a Newfoundland sealer with 55 years experience, admitted that the arrival of the McCartneys on the protest scene is a concern.

Troake has seen his share of protesters - from fur-clad B-movie stars to radical vegans - but the McCartneys are in a class of their own when it comes to star power.

"I'm certainly concerned about this lad," said the Twillingate fisherman, who can remember when French film star Brigitte Bardot caused a sensation when she showed up to protest the fishery in 1972.

"He's a much more powerful person."

Time for the sealers and their apologists to wake up and smell the coffee. The lads thought they could score some points by publicly mocking and belittling Heather, and win some sympathy.

They are about to be taught an important life's lesson: don't mess with a woman who lost a leg and gained a cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:12 AM

Love you, too, Mickdarlin', but it's called Evolution and with our supposed higher consciousness we are supposed to evolve from the barbarous slaughters, etc., IMO. At least you admit you can't stand to watch the beef slaughtered that you eat. If everyone who ate meat had to kill their own, I think a lot more people would be vegetarians. I said let Nature, knowing how cruel it can seem to us, BUT it is NATURE, even if it is out of whack because of human(un)kind.

I also agree with some points which the last few "Guests" have posted. I think there are a bunch of self-righteous prats posting to this thread who have never liked the Beatles and are letting their jealousy and hatred of them cloud any fair assessment of the whole situation.

I know this won't change the kill-the-seals campaign being waged here, so I am out of this thread, now.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:23 AM

You may be surprised gnu, to know I am not a vegetarian. But I don't support corporate farming or buy meat from grocery stores. I only buy animal products from sources that are first and foremost SUSTAINABLE. Corporate farming and corporate factory fishing, is simply not sustainable. But I also believe in that "ethical treatment of animals" part of the PETA name.

I have rancher friends, who earn their living selling calves and cattle.

I have dairy farmer friends, who earn their living selling animal products.

I also know there is folklore galore from among those folk, about people who abuse their pets, livestock, and loved ones--for good reason. People who live in agricultural communities have long known that sort of behavior was bad for people and animals, because abuse of other living beings is a sign of sickness and disease that can bring great harm to small, self-contained communities.

Sealers need to made extinct, for the good of their small communities, for the good of Canada, and for the good of the world. Just like the whalers. It's that simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:27 AM

Are youse suggesting we prats prate and prattle until pratfall?

Me arse, I say.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:45 AM

Well, what's the solution you are offering, gnu? The status quo?

This unprecedented increase in the quota for the seal hunt was a calculated political move by the conservative right wing political factions in Canada, to separate the working class (and their middle class romanticizers such as the many who populate this sort of "folk" forum) from the progressive social movements of the day.

It's a very clever right wing wedge issue, that puts the working class good ole boys on the same side of fence as the corporado good ole boys working against the working class' best interests!

This is Divide and Conquer 101.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:13 AM

Oh and another thing--if you think Ottawa is "protecting the livelihoods and way of life" of PEI or Newfoundland, think again.

Each boat with a 12 man crew brings in about $100,000 a day during the hunt. The unprecedented increase in the quota, to nearly a million seals/year, was done not for the sake of the locals, but to reintroduce the big money hunt by commercial interests, whom the Ottawa politicians can benefit from mightily through legalized political graft like "campaign contributions" and token taxing of the hunt. Then you'll hear the politicians say the hunt brings in desperately needed tax revenues for welfare mothers...

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:14 AM

Common sense would pose questions that fools would refuse to contemplate, and objective facts and subjective belief become mixed.
I have no axe to grind for or against the sealing industry. I do however have many friends who are fishermen and even a few fisherwomen,most of whom never killed a seal in their lives. (I refuse to use the term fishers) The fishery's recovery is in great peril and now the high seal population is part of the problem. It changes nothing to speculate how we got into this mess. What we need is some objectivity to find a way out. The bottom line is that there are too few fish and too many seals. Seals are in no way endangered as a species but northern cod most certainly are. Maybe a codfish is not as cute as a baby seal but why is the life of one more valuable than the other?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:18 AM

No, the seals aren't part of the problem. Corporate floating fish factories are the problem.

If you seriously believe that local fisherman and the seals are the cause of the depletion of the cod fisheries, you don't know jack shit about fish or fishermen, much less their way of life.

The problem isn't too many seals. The problem is too many people around the world eating cod as a cheap food source at a McDonalds near you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:34 AM

Oh, and I forgot to mention--the reason why the North Atlantic cod fisheries haven't rebounded the way the Norwegian and Russian cod fisheries have?

Gross negligence and mismanagement by the Canadian government.

We are seeing just one more example of that idiocy with the reintroduction of the seal hunt, being offered as an economic solution to Ottawa fucking up management of the North Atlantic ocean fisheries real good. In other words, it's a form of bribery to the cod fishing industry, who ain't makin' any money off the cod anymore. Instead, they are makin' money off J Lo in fur bikinis.

This isn't just about "oh, those poor wee baby harp seals are so cute, please don't hurt them..." Environmentalists and animal rights activists aren't nearly as stupid as greedy "traditional" and "traditional corporado" men (and their romantic apoligists) are.

Overfishing is a major environmental problem and a serious economic and food security issue. Annual catches hover around 100 million tons and are worth nearly $100 billion. About 15 percent of all animal protein we consume comes from the seas, and as many as one billion people in low-income countries are dependent on seafood for protein.

Ocean fisheries, referring to both stocks and the boats that harvest those stocks, are found in some of the most productive and richest marine environments on Earth. If a fish stock collapses, a "hole" can be created in the food web and disrupt the whole ecosystem.

Also, some fishing gears, like traditional shrimp trawling nets, result in excessive catches of nontarget species, called "bycatch." Bottom trawls can damage sensitive marine habitats, and a variety of gears can kill marine mammals, seabirds, sea turtles and fish. Gear modifications can reduce these impacts, but it's difficult to avoid them completely.

I happen to love seafood, steaks, venison, and duck. I'd like my great-grandchildren to be able to enjoy eating them too. But it's people like the self-righteous breast beaters here, screaming about how Sir Paul is the cause of all fisher folk's woes, who are the eejits. We need to fight for sustainable fisheries. And re-opening the barbaric Canadian seal hunts is NOT part of the solution, it is part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 12:21 PM

There is no such thing as over fishing, there are too many people in the world and they need food. People don't risk their lives going out to catch fish when there's nobody to eat it.
Man is busy trying to find cures for diseases that kept the population to a manageable size, more people more natural resources being consumed, it can't go on. Only the Chinese with their limiting of family sizes have begun to appreciate the true problem.
Compulsory water meters in the South of England is another symptom of a sick and over populated world.
Still a bird flu epidemic should cut demand a bit.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 12:24 PM

Can someone answer why The Humane Society of the U.S.A. is backing and promoting this movement against The (what they call) the barbaric Canadian seal hunt ... check out their website ... I have a problem with this since many U.S. states legalize Greyhound racing ... thousands of these hounds are slaughtered each year (with a bullet in the head) once they are no longer a money maker at the track (avg age 3yrs) ... again thousands of greyhound newborn pups are culled annually since since they don't meet racing standards. BTW, Canada does legalize greyhound racing.

Anyway ... just demonstrating the hypocracy on this issue ... but it certainly angers me with the 2 faced stance the Humane Society of the U.S.A. .... and PETA in itself.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 12:25 PM

Oooops correction ... Canada does not legalize greyhound racing.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 01:11 PM

I wish you would read the thread... at least my posts. I have been trying to spread the news that uninformed people should shut the fuck up.

You asked me about a solution? Who am I to solute? If I ever said that seals were the cause of the depletion of fish stocks, please point it out to me and I will apologize. There is no proof... yet.

There is no proof that the lumber industry in New Brunswick has depleted the salmon by destroying, or, rather, adversely affecting, the spawning grounds. At least, none that the government will acknowledge.

There is no proof the the tripling of the seal population over the last thirty years has had any effect on the return of large female salmon. Hmmm. Perhaps I should explain... When the salmon school up at the mouth of the Miramichi River (any river) and await the moon and tide and sufficient fresh water flow to begin their spawning swim, seals have a field day. They take a bite out of a salmon, the slowest one, that is, a large female laden with eggs, and move on to the next one. When the school does move into the river system, the bottom is piled with dead salmon which they can leisurely gorge on for days and days. Seals are smart. Smarter than salmon, anyway.

Mother Nature has a solution. She did it a few weeks ago. The weather has been warm and ice did not form off Nova Scotia for sea birthing. The seals had to beach birth. Storm surges separated mothers and pups and the beaches were awash with dead pups. But, I didn't see Pauly out on those beaches trying to help any of them.

Solution? Perhaps nobody has THE solution. But one thing is for sure. Sir Paul has not got a solution. Ya gotta have at least a fuckin clue about what yer talkin about before ya go shootin yer mouth off. Be the lard sufferin holy moly Joeseph b'y, when ya don't even know the difference between "The Island" and "The Rock", ya oughta keep yer gob shut. But, I'll bet he sells a shitload more CD's... and doesn't give a dime to the sealers.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:08 PM

The only solution I can think of is that there be would be no market demand for seal hides/furs (or whatever they are). Then nature can take care of the seals. As for the sealers .. well, does anyone care.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,obie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:15 PM

I don't think the unnamed guest can separate the fishery from the sealhunt anymore than he can separate his thought process between his bowel and his brain. If he would take the time to read and at least try to understand postings from people who know a hell of a lot more than he does, perhaps he wouldn't be so subjective. It is hard to see the world when your head is up your arse!
I know, I know :
    DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:16 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:18 PM

That's a cheap victory and particularly inept on a thread like this with a serious subject
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:20 PM

Yes, number 6, I care. I hope I misunderstood your post. If not, then you are an idiot. If so, then I apologize unreservedly.

Right on, Obie. This is the Minnesota contingent that goes on and on. I love the way they seemed to imply being Canadian, without actually saying it.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:21 PM

gnu, I never said it was that said the seals were the cause of the depleted fisheries. It was yer man Obie I was responding to, who enlightened us all when he said "The fishery's recovery is in great peril and now the high seal population is part of the problem."

So gnu, perhaps you could try reading posts by someone other than yourself, and the person you have decided to pit yourself against.

Complicated issue, isn't it? I guess it can't all be solved by dissing celebrities, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:32 PM

The sealers aren't just sealers. They are also fishermen.

Which rather does connect them to the problem of depleted fisheries. As the cod dwindled, they pressured Ottawa to increase the quotas on seals, as an alternative means of exploiting the area's resources. They are only concerned about depleting the resources when it is THEIR livelihood at stake. They ain't exactly the most economic and enviromentally altruistic bunch of guys on the planet.

And BTW, why no mention, if we are talking about all this, of the endangered and nearly extinct North Atlantic right whale, hmmmmm?

Could it be because yer beloved fishermen are guilty of killing a few here and there every now and then? Part of the price the planet shall pay for them being a sad, forlorn bycatch that will be extinct in a few more years anyway, so sod 'em?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM

So gnu, now the seals are responsible for the depletion of the salmon too?

Oh, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 04:45 PM

I wish I could say its nice to see you again, but it isn't. Gnu said specifically that there is no proof that the seals are responsible for the loss. You then respond by baiting him. That means you really aren't as interested in the issue as you put on. Once again you are simply trolling. You do this because in your isolated little world, you believe you have all the answers and the rest of us are idiots for not buying into that.

Folks, don't let this old foe hijack this one.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:05 PM

"Can someone answer why The Humane Society of the U.S.A. is backing and promoting this movement against The (what they call) the barbaric Canadian seal hunt"

Yes, I can. The US is the largest potential market for sealskin, but because of excellent activism on the part of the US and international animal rights and environmental movements, the US market has been closed to the sealskin trade since passage of the US Marine Mammal Protection Act. That act is renewable, and the pressures to succumb to the global fashion fur industry and allow sealskin back into the US market is enormous.

As always, it's about the bottom line of the bottom feeding scum that make their living exploiting the earth's resources and keeping the world's ecosystems off balance, so people like gnu will start threads like this and do the dirty work for them of maintaining the corporate status quo.

And it isn't the Newfoundlanders who have borne the brunt economically--it has been the native peoples of the Canadian Pacific region, whose economies were decimated by passage of the act.

The Newfies make the money off the hunt, the money off the processing of the pelts (all done in Newfoundland), and have a virtually locked in export market to Norway, Europe and Japan.

It is only the white coat fur pelts that have been banned from Europe, as I understand it.

No coincidence the Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans is run almost exclusively by Newfoundlanders, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 05:53 PM

Let me see if I've got this straight - the Native peoples of the Canadian Pacific region had their economies decimated by the US Marine Mammal Protection Act, so therefore Newfoundland fishermen should not harvest seals? Do I have that right?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 06:20 PM

Hahahaha. Oh my. Do you even know the name of the last fisheries minister? Hehehehehe!!! You people make me laugh. You prove my point. Get a fuckin clue eh? Hehehehehe.

I just watched Larry King Live, on tape. All is lost. The McCartneys have absolutely NO credibility. Apparently, in order to help the sealers, all we have to do, according to the royal couple, is ban the seal hunt. Then, the Europeans will lift the boycott on Canadian seafood and then buy millions of dollars worth of crab. And, all the sealers and their families will live happily ever after. Wha?

Fuckin A, eh? But, gee, Missus M... isn't that cruel treatment of the crabs... you hypocritical piece of no-mind fucking trash. Not to mention the fact that the poor sealers can't afford a miilion dollar boat to get to the crab fishery. A punt ta ye of course. Perhaps ye could lend it out during crab season, eh?

That's my point.... until you have been on Dog Island... don't bark!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:25 PM

"As for the sealers .. well, does anyone care."

As for the fact ... I certainly do care.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:27 PM

"Hahahaha. Oh my. Do you even know the name of the last fisheries minister? Hehehehehe!!! You people make me laugh. You prove my point. Get a fuckin clue eh? Hehehehehe."

... I know gnu ... !!!!

I luv that.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:33 PM

Tough name to forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:41 PM

Herb Dhaliwal minister of fisheries back in 2000 ... yup, all the fisheries guys are from Newfoundland all right.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:45 PM

You got change for a Hearn?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 10:51 PM

number 6 has contacted me and made it clear that he does indeed care. I misunderstood his post and offer a sincere apology.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:30 PM

L-O-L-A, Lola,   Lo lo lo lo lola

Just like cherry cola.

I might have some change for a Hearn Peace.

BTW, does Red Lobster really serve seafood?

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 06 - 11:31 PM

It's not a steak house?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 09:16 AM

You children get really nasty when someone disagrees with you, don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 09:56 AM

Doesn't bother me at all if someone disagrees.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 11:09 AM

Guest Post under your real membership name if you believe the shit you are saying!

If you can honestly say you believe the misinformed opinion you have than why are you afraid to reveal who it is that holds it!

Kat Yah yer right it's jelousy of the beatles that makes Newfoundlanders mad that some uneducated spoiled hasbeen pop star and his golddigging mouthy barnacle are fucking with thier livelyhoods because some asshole from peta have decided that seals are cute and dupped said idoit popstar into believeing the hype with some footage of a practice that was out of practice long before he stopped wearing Leather.
Kat when was the last time you were to NFLD?


The whitecaots have not been hunted since 74

People DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE SPOUTING SHIT!

KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 12:00 PM

The white coats have not been hunted since 1974, because the US Marine Mammal Protection Act, passed in 1972, shut down US borders to sealskin pelt products.

And actually, some of us who are opposed to the hunt seem to know a whole lot more about it than the pro-seal slaughter reactionaries around here, who are busy mouthing the long-since discredited pro-seal slaughter party line here, to defend the indefensible.

You all seem a bit too clever by half.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 12:22 PM

thurg, no you don't have it right. I was simply pointing out that the racist fishermen in Newfoundland don't give two shits about the Native harvests--only their own. Which is why your beloved Newfies also drove the MicMac out. The better to steal their resources.

As to gnu--I think it is the lot of you that need to buy a clue, matey. The US and international animal welfare and environmental organizations WILL succeed to shutting down the hunt. It make take us a few more years, but we will do it.

How? The US buys 75% of Canadian seafood export. We'll shut you down with a boycott, just like we did the tuna industry.

Considering the last 3 years of the hunt took over 1 million of the government estimated 5.8 million harp seal population, we don't have much time, as the species will be extinct in a matter of years, not decades at the rate of the current quotas, we don't have much time.

Which is why the movement has brought in the big guns.

We will shut this hunt down, once and for all. No matter what the reactionary good ole Newfie boys and their boyfriends here think or say about it, or how much they might try to mock, malign and humiliate Paul McCartney and his family.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 12:32 PM

We will shut this hunt down, once and for all.

What's with all this "we" stuff????? All you and your other Minnesota buddy ever do is jump in and act like you are big activists, but my bet is that you never get into the real fights. I see your type all the time. Long on what "we" will do diatribe, and short on anything that involves real risk to yourselves.

One of the hallmarks of "all mouth, no action" is the constant putting down of anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 01:09 PM

Guest You coward LOG IN!

You, just Like your hero Paul M have reacted to the invitation to Learn what you talk about with the same "I know all I need to know" bullshit.

There is no arguing with a little child who plugs his ears and Screams "I'M NOT LISTENING". So you go ahead and believe that an anomonus Troll is gonna stop anything based on misinformation.

Paul in his ultimate Wisdom might as well try to find a cure for Pancakes.

"how much they might try to mock, malign and humiliate Paul McCartney and his family" Trust me anyone with a brain that thinks for itself saw The McCartneys Humiliate themselves by not even knowing what province they were in!


"racist fishermen in Newfoundland"
"Newfie boys "
"bottom feeding scum "

Who's the racist Asshole?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 01:17 PM

So what you're saying is that might is right guest?
Don't need to be right just need to be bigger huh?
That's how bullies have 'won' arguments for ever.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 01:42 PM

An anon guest who is a card carrying member of the HSUS, PETA, and Sea Shepherd, actively organizing to lay the groundwork for the boycott (since last year's hunt). Greenpeace, Inc. doesn't get my money anymore.

Not only am I not buying Canadian seafood, especially Newfoundland snow crab, but nor is anyone I know (it's that six degrees of separation factor).

I am also participating in my local food coop members campaign to get Red Lobster and Olive Garden (both owned by the same corporation, American Seafood Vendors) to stop buying Canadian seafood; raise awareness among our region's food coops; put pressure on our local grocers through our food coop member letter writing campaign, and; participate in our local education campaign in the area colleges.

And on March 15th, I'll blow you all a kiss from demo at our local Canadian Consulate.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 01:52 PM

No, I never said might makes right. I said I am doing what I know is right. Big difference.

As I said, it is only a matter of time until the seal hunt is ended forever. You all can keep screeching and bitching about that fact here all you want. It won't change a thing, because the writing is on the wall.

People everywhere want to see these marine mammal slaughters ended forever.

That's the side I'm on.

The fact that there are millions more of us than the Newfie sealers, the Canadian Inuit bowhead whale hunters (and their pro-whaling Norwegian and Japanese puppetmasters at the World Council of Whalers in Vancouver) and the Japanese and Norwegian whalers around the globe, will begin to matter, just as it did in tuna boycott.

Globally, we all get to vote on the Canadian seal hunt with out pocketbooks as consumers, you see.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Guest, but not Guest above in this thread
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 01:55 PM

Interesting talk, but too bad the regulars are taking the bait and continue to feed the Guest trolls. However, it leads to interesting stuff and if you are going to continue feeding them accept that they will not login with a name and continue on. Don't ask them to sign in because they will not! That gets old and interferes with the arguments.

Paul "sealed" my opinion of him with this nonsense cause. If it matters, am I am also a vegetarian.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Guest Above
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 01:59 PM

You know, this is so lame. Every time a guest makes arguments about any subject here that goes against the Mudcat BS majority, and does so articulately, the knee jerk reaction is to call them a troll.

So call me a troll. It doesn't change the fact I am an articulate voice taking time out to post here about something I care about.

Now, back to the usual Mudcat member dysfunctionalism....

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 02:05 PM

Continue "articulating on" Guest Above...I guess there ARE reasons for ghostwriting.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 02:36 PM

"Now, back to the usual Mudcat member dysfunctionalism.... "

I assume that is my cue. Hehehe. "...mock, malign and humiliate..."? Not me. They did that all on their own.

Say, now. Since you are such an animal rights champion, why aren't you calling for charges to be laid against the Sir's for cruelty to those little seal pups and their mothers. They broke the laws of this land and we have the proof on video. Case closed.

Anyway, as for me saying anything about keeping the hunt or anyone shutting it down, I didn't. So, just like the last time I asked you to stop putting words in my mouth, prove it or fuck off. I don't mean fuck off, as in "leave", I mean fuck off as in "idiot". As for blowing me a kiss, blow it out yer ass.

I said I would never eat seal again, but Seal Flipper Pie ain't bad. And, I suppose I could choke some down.

Oh, BTW, the Newfie forefathers did not drive the MigMaw (try get up to speed, eh?) out. Yes, they took out the Beothucks that opposed them. And, the remaining Beothucks succumbed to disease carried by the white man. Now... I am not gonna discuss the history of my Native brothers on this thread, as it is not the time nor the place, and because I am no expert in this area, but I just wanted to point out that you should not unjustly libel 700,000 Newfs. That is certainly "racist".

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 02:53 PM

As usual gnu, you suffer from extreme self-centrism. Everything I post is not in response to what you and your band of bros here says.

Oh, have I gone and spelled words differently than you?

MicMac instead of MigMaw instead of Mi'kmaq--or Inuit instead of Innuit instead of Innu...congratulations on winning today's Mudcat Lame Ass Pedant Spell Checker Award. It so bolsters your arguments.

And don't worry, folks are working on calling a boycott of Newfoundland's heritage tourism industry too. Tourists need to know about the cultural values behind the hunt too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: leftydee
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 02:55 PM

I hope Guest "votes with his pocketbook", it is a vote wasted. I'm one who'll not be buying seal skins, but I, sure as hell, won't try to stop others. What gives Guest the moral superiority to decide what anyone but himself can wear. Guest is also someone that's probably never had to do a tough job to make ends meet.

I trapped muskrats all thru high school. It was a tough thing but in the end it paid for my first car. That car was a first step in economic freedom for me. So Guest, maybe your mom still pays your bills, but please don't infringe on other folks right to make a living.

"There is a place for all God's creatures here, right next to my mashed potatoes."

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:02 PM

Hmmmm, now let me see.

Just how many of those 700,000 Newfs and the handful of Newfie sealers are descended from the 9000 years of human inhabitants in the province prior to European settlement? You know, all those (conveniently extinct) Beothuks, MicMac, Maritime Archaic, Dorset and other paleo-Eskimo peoples?

None?

Imagine my surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:02 PM

Guest is a prime example of the 'poster' that one shouldn't waste time and energy on.

... now, back to enjoying my plateful of cod tongues, sage stuffing and chips, followed by some toutons, molasses and coffee. Yum, Yum.

six

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:03 PM

could Paul survive in the arctic?

sounds like it could be fun finding out.....

offer him a deal. no seals killed all the time you spend dancing round the north pole in your underpants......that should test his committment.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:16 PM

Ah, good on ya lads. Thanks for showing us where reason and the facts have failed you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:23 PM

Nice to see everyone's getting along.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 03:48 PM

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too, Peace...what a shit-storm, eh?

Raptor, I just got a call here from Paul McCartney. ;-) He is really, really upset about what you said about him. I mean....really upset.

"Do you know this subhuman?" He asked me. Oh, my. Well, I had to admit I do.

Such a fuss. He is about ready to fly over to Barrie and have it out with you personally, mano a mano. He says he's getting a bit old for that sort of thing now, but he still has confidence enough in his pugilistic abilities to deal with a dim-witted "colonial" such as yourself, provided that it's agreed beforehand that both shall abide by the Rules of Queensbury, under the supervision of a professional referee, in a location and at a time agreed to by both, and further agree to shake hands and live and let live if it goes ten rounds and no one has been knocked out or resigned.

He says if he wins, you must apologize to him and his wife, grovel a bit, that sort of thing.

"What if Raptor wins?" I asked him.

"Oh, don't talk rubbish!" he replied.

He seems to be quite confident about this. What do you think, is the Barrie Gym suitable or should we call up a hockey rink or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,B. Shears
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:09 PM

Look out, cause here she comes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:13 PM

I'm getting along just fine .... anyone care for some cod tongues, or feel to help yourself to touton or two ....molasses is over there.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:20 PM

I prefers the cheeks, m'son. But in a pinch the tongues will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM

Hehehehehe. More fun than a barrel of dead seal pups... the white ones.

sIx... tongues? Fresh? Decent? I haven't seen any decent fresh tongues and cheeks for a seal's age. They had frozen T&C's at Sobeys this week, but the $ was fucking near the $ of elephant foreskin. Tusk, tusk!!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Apollo C. Vermouth
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM

and you know what they say about sIx: he may be a lover but he ain't no dancer

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:23 PM

Sorry Peace .... next time I'll make sure I have some cheeks and some fish cakes too.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:24 PM

Tongues is fine. They bes good to eat. Had 'em often along with cod's head soup. Food's food. And well we know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:25 PM

B. Shears... d'ya think? Hehehe.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:27 PM

The one and only. Could it be?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Wirral
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:28 PM

Not to worry, gnu. We're coming for your foreskin next.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:29 PM

Well .... Apollo always shouts something obscene, such a dirty old man.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:30 PM

Watch it gnu, watch it fer chrissake's !!!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Wirral
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:34 PM

wid me big bucky squirrely teeth hehehe

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM

Whatever turns you on. I like Gnu, but that jus' ain't for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM

HeHe .... good one Wirral!

gnu ... the reason you can't find any half decent cod tongues at Sobey's these days and the cost being equal to the price of an elepant forsekin is begause all the Geze are gettin them, and the rest are being gobbled up by the likes of Wirral.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM

Not to worry. I am of Irish descent. What we lacks in barrel, we makes up wit in calibre. Lots ta go around. Good enough fer da girls I goes wit anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,ramon
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 04:44 PM

yas gnu, we're sure yer mum loves it and finds it quite tasty

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 05:12 PM

Hahahaha... oh my. If that's the best you got, ya shoulda met me Me Mere! She always use to say, en Francaise, "Come big or stay home." You shoulda stayed home. I wouldn't even bid with a hand with a dry five. Ye arseholes don't even have a Jack... jack shit, really. Ah... maybe ya gotta know what I am talkin about to understand that, but ya don't understand anything else about our culture, so, par for the course.

Good lord! Ye fuckers are pathetic. Ye couldn't last a minute on yer own on a good day on flat oily ca'm... with a boat bigger than Sir's.

I think you should all get into a Yellow Sub and smoke some dope and sing some really stunned, pathetic songs and fuck off... and, by "fuck off", I do mean go away. Yer useless. The whole lot. Ya know fuck all about what yer talkin about and less about bein able to express it with any degree of credibilty.

Now... could we get back to the really important crux of this thread? How can we save the last remaining real Beatle? Oops. Shite. We can't. He made a complete fool of himself.

gnightgnu

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Jenny Wren
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 05:20 PM

In another world we could
stand on top of the mountain
with our flag unfurled
In a time to come we will be
dancing to the beat played
on a different drum

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 05:33 PM

of Irish descent.....you go down on Irish people?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,B Martin
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 05:36 PM

a-Will you, won't you want me to make you
I'm coming down fast, but don't let me break you
Tell me, tell me, tell me the answer...

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 07:44 PM

Go down on Irish people? Well, if the lass fits....

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:05 PM

I'd like to apologise to my fellow catters for gettin so upset at the words of an obvious troll and my use of bad language.

Little Hawk and I just attended a concert and he pointed out to me that I was getting too sucked in to this shit!

As you can tell I'm a bit touchey on the subject having lost a few relatives on the ice!

His solution was a good one "Don't read what the moron has to say!"

And with that I'm outa here. Catch me on a more pleasant thread.

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:11 PM

Well, I guess that means the big fight between Raptor and Sir Paul is off.

Damn.

I had already sold several thousand dollars worth of advance tickets, and rented the Barrie Curling Club facilities. I am in deep shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:17 PM

Don't worry LH ... I have cousin who is a member of the Barrie Curling Club ... I'll talk to him and i'm sure he can remedy this current delima of yours.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:28 PM

Raptor, have a good day. GUESTS get to say what they choose, there's no reason you shouldn't too.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:30 PM

Well, that's a relief... (wiping sweat off brow)

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:35 PM

Just got off the phone with him LH. Good news and bad news.

First the bad news ... sorry pal. Your still committed to the bookings.

Good News ... it doesn't have to be Macca and Raptor having a live debate. He suggested you can do something else ... like a 1 man play starring yourself, performing the biography of William Shatner.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:39 PM

Wow.

Well, it's short notice, but maybe....

Either that or I can get Doris the Orillia laundromat girl to do her dance of the seven tea towels instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:40 PM

I opt for the tea towel thing. But get Shatner to do it instead.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:44 PM

Doris is actually a nice girl.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:45 PM

Hmmmm.

So you've already seen Doris, have you?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:45 PM

True, but Shatner is, well, he's SHATNER!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:49 PM

Yes I have LH ... but I must say never, ever without her tea towels.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:51 PM

OK, then. Get Doris to do the dance and Shatner to choreograph it. SIx can wash the towels, LH can dry them and I'll call the local papers to let them know.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 10:53 PM

I'm on for that!!

Next stop after Barrie guys .... Broadway !!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 11:49 PM

Make a stop in Blind River. It would be a hit there for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 11:52 PM

No question.

Well, I think we have solved the seal hunt problem, eh, guys? ;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 05 Mar 06 - 11:58 PM

What seal hunt? Hey, isn't McCartney involed in something about that? In PEI, Newfoundland?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:04 AM

Now... that's how to end a thread. Bravo! Bravo! Fade to black.......

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:13 AM

As the houselights go down, and a spotlight comes up on a solitary figure on stage. The biggest damn Irishman you ever saw stares intently at the figure of a lone, rather portly woman getting ready to sing The Song. Mick settles in to enjoy the moment, but something about the proverbial "Fat Lady" catches his eye. He leans forward in his seat, straining to make out what it is. As he struggles to figure out what is bothering him, he realizes. The lady is Shatner in drag.................AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:22 AM

Very, very good finale Mick!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:30 AM

Well 4 all of u crowd that don't no what its like 4 fisher men ill give ya a hint. HARD AS FUCK. Me father is one and trust me he earned every cent he ever made. Seals r not as sweet as ya tinks. they will b happy 2 take a good piece out of ya. Give em one good nip and u can bet ull feel it. They don't all just lie dere and look cute. The best part of em snaps at ya face and tries 2 take what every body part they can get at off. I nos u can say "well ur tryin 2 kiill em"   but no they r like it all the time.   even b4 u gets ya gun blazen u walk out on the ice and try 2 pet one. Get use 2 cleanin ya arse with 2 fingers

I seen one feller up dere sayin sum thin about who cares if its 40 000 of ppl out of work. Well ill put it 2 ya like this u supply all the food it puts on the table and all the money it puts in ya pockets and then we will tink about killin the violent fuckers.

well thats it from me stright out of a newfies mouth   taker easy every one of yee and god love the ones who understands y the seal hunt happens every year

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:21 AM

o yeah i bet ppl dont tink about lobster. guess how ya cooks them?   boils em alive   now tink about that. A lobster isent cute but it feels pain just like every thing else.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:25 AM

and 4 that feller up there sayin "we will stop it" u wont stop shit. Many ppl has tryed b4 2 stop it so u and a few of ur crazy animnal rights groups needs 2 find ya selves a few new hobbies

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:26 AM

Ya boils 'em dead. Tink about THAT!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:29 AM

they r alive when u boils em
I fishes em

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:31 AM

I knows dat. But ya boils 'em dead. Dey bes alive when dey go in. They bes dead when dey come out. Loik I said, "Ya boils 'em dead." LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Not impressed
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:36 AM

Like someone above said, the pro-seal slaughter fellows are clever by half. Especially those who are apparently so sacred, they walk on water.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:43 AM

Every big food market is a slaughter. My girl friend's father works in a slaughter house out in sask. He kills over 500 cows a night. This happens every weekday and his is only one shift. Pigs r killed by a bolt that is drivein through the backs of there heads. so what ever u do its a cruel. Well i dunno about the rest of the world but i loves me meal od seal

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:51 AM

"Like someone above said, the pro-seal slaughter fellows are clever by half."

It is not really that way, not impressed. No one 'likes' the slaughter. People, however, all over the world do various slaughters at different times. Caribou, fish (over a period of months), whales, seals, cattle, chickens. There are few folks with no blood on their hands. Oh, their hands may be clean, but that's only because they are six times removed from the process. They don't see the nut cutting of bulls or the factory slaughter in meat plants. I think that in a perfect world, we'd all be vegetarians--but then the Jains have a view of that which would prohibit the slaughter of vegetables (I don't mean to be facetious).

At present, people come before animals. In a perfect world it would not be thus.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Not impressed
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 10:54 AM

Thanks "Guest" (sure), but I believe after 180+ posts, you've beaten everything in sight to death.

But keep on flogging away, if trying to rekindle the flames after everyone has left is your thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 11:04 AM

i no 1st hand how much this hunt means 2 ppl so when u. So i feel 4 those ppl u. And 2 let u no i have made only 5 posts. So when u learn what ur talkin about then make ur point other wise keep a lid on it and piece i agree with u in a perfect world we wouldent have 2 kill ne thing 4 food but thats the hard truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Not impressed
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 11:34 AM

Could it be you oh so clever fellows aren't aware most of the world's population doesn't eat animal flesh as their protein source? It's beans and rice for most folks, day in and day out, year in and year out.

But that is another thread. This one is a bit too gleeful in it's celebration of slaughtering animals for my tastes.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 12:23 PM

It's easy to be vegetarian and eat no meat (unless you live in the far North, in which case that's a different story...). As Guest pointed out, there are a vast number of people in a great many cultures who have eaten little or no meat. North Americans and western Europeans eat a LOT of meat...far more than is actually good for them...and they do so for cultural reasons, not natural ones. They're culturally accustomed to it, and take it for granted.

I've gone for lengthy periods eating a vegetarian diet...which was great...and have likewise gone for lengthy periods eating the typical North American diet with meat, which was also just fine by me. I had to be more motivated and well organized to stick to a vegetarian diet in a society that pigs out on meat as a standard thing and takes it for granted.

In the old days in Europe the poorer people could not afford to eat much meat. Therefore, eating meat became associated with wealth, living the "good life", therefore everyone wanted more meat. When they came to North America in the 1500s and found a continent teaming with wild game...they were free to eat meat till it was coming out of their ears. That resulted in a culture that became fixated on eating steaks, roasts, meat with every meal if at all possible....merely because, all of a sudden, they could. It was easily available.

It has also resulted, in the long run, in a society that is not very physically healthy.

I am convinced from my own experience and from personal observation that most people in this society eat more meat than is good for them, that it harms their health, that it wastes valuable land that would be better used for growing crops, and that it has created a horrific slaughterhouse industry that is so awful that if most people got to witness it firsthand they would not be able to stomach eating meat any longer.

Not that eating meat is totally wrong or evil. It's not. Eating way too much meat is the problem here.

Mick, I think our dentition does not indicate that we are predators, it indicates that we, like the large apes, are omnivores. We don't have a mouth full of sharp cutting and tearing teeth as true predators do. We have some chopping teeth at the front, two very blunt and unimpressive vestigial canines (hardly suitable for a predator), and a bunch of grinding teeth in the back for grinding fruits, vegetables, grains, and whatever else we might eat. Those are the teeth of an animal that eats mainly plants, not meat, but may eat a little meat now and then if it's handy. And that describes the life of a wild chimpanzee (aside from the grains). They eat mostly plants, but will eat meat on occasion. I think that's what we were naturally made to do also. That's not what I call a predator.

Kaboom! Whole new bunch of crap to fight about. This thread has now been kickstarted back to life, to lurch on across the verbal landscape of Mudcat Cafe. Shatner shrugs and sits down in the orchestra pit to watch the scene unfold. ;-P

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:24 PM

It's the crap that is in the (super market) meat which makes me an 'almost vegetarian'.

Lobster was eaten by the very poor here in the Maritimes back before it became the expesive food item as it is today.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:49 PM

Ah, those were the days, eh? I once ate 25 undersized lobsters at my uncle's house in P.E.I. Dee-licious!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 03:29 PM

Things are never so simple when we delve:
   To refrain from eating meat because of refusing to contribute to any creature's death is an error. Far too much of the earths surface has been cleared of forests to provide land for agriculture. In turn a great deal of prime agriculture land is paved and built over for urban sprawl.
The habitant of the animals is being destroyed and they are left a slow death from starvation, or else they loose cover that protects them from predators.
I recall years ago reading a study on the number of creatures destroyed by ploughing 1 acre of land. The loss of ground dwelling creatures such as rabbits, birds, fieldmice, groundhogs, moles etc. was surprisingly high. The simple fact is that we must eat to live and one way or another we are in competition with other animals.
If our un-named guest really wants to make a difference may I suggest a hunger strike. Now that would save some creatures and also remove a pimple from the Earth's arse!

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 04:27 PM

if ne thing should b stoped 4 the pleasure of the kill its rec huntin. ppl pay so they can go out and blow away a bear, deer, moose and the list goes on. ppl go out 2 the seal hunt and kill them as a job not 4 fun. alot of men were lost on the ice, and each time ppl go out its a risk. Its not unusual 2 hear about a boat bein tore 2 pieces by ice. so dont have a dumb thought in ur mind ppl goes out 4 the fun of shootin a gun. every year its a gamble

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:00 PM

I have never enjoyed killing. I've donne my share, and probably some other people's share of it too, but it was for food or to put down a creature that would be better off dead--sometimes a hard call to make.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 07 Mar 06 - 07:50 AM

You guys trin ta get this thread up ta 200 er somethin?

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:32 AM

This CBC article I find interesting and some of you might also....

Canadian Senator fires back

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:56 PM

Ahhh... I think this thread has been beaten to death. Time to seal it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 04:20 PM

Senator Céline Hervieux-Payette has more balls than our fu#kin' Prime Minister.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: number 6
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 04:48 PM

I agree ... world needs more like her. I wonder if the Prime Minister's office is going to make her apologize.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Peace
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 04:52 PM

If they try, I'd bet she tells them to stick it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 03:15 PM

Here's a good article on the subject from someone who lives there...

http://www.cbncompass.ca/index.cfm?iid=1197&sid=8333

(hopefully this will not be too big to fit into Joe's large screen)


"They are the rage in Europe, but the question is where do they get them?

We see them on television - white and blue sealskin coats - on the catwalks of Europe and the runways of New York.

They are on the news every night now - those fancy fashion models - wearing white and blue sealskin coats, slinking down the runways, one leg directly in front of the other, like a fox tracking a rabbit.

While they strut their time upon the stage, the news announcer in the background quotes the most recent aged celebrity who claims we Newfoundlanders are barbarians.

As we all know in this province, we are not allowed to sell the skin of a whitecoat or blueback seal. It is a criminal offence for our sealers to do that.

Ottawa made sure, about seven years ago, that we ordinary Newfoundlanders and Labradorians would not forget the law when they ordered law enforcement officers to raid the homes, business premises, and trucks of all buyers of sealskins in this province.

Law enforcement officers seized all records of the buyers and any blueback sealskins they found. Every person who sold bluebacks in this province was charged with a criminal offence.

I know all about it because I am still in court representing some of the sealers in ongoing court cases at several communities on the Northeast coast.

Over and over we see the whitecoat and blueback clothing on CBC, CTV, CNN and other news networks, while they talk about us, shamelessly suggesting something that we know is one big fat fib.

The truth is that those beautiful whitecoat and blueback sealskins come from Europe, Asia and the United States where it is legal to sell whitecoats and bluebacks.

In those other countries the law states that every seal can be killed and the pelts sold as long as the seal is weaned from its mother - this means they can be taken about 10 to 12 days after birth. A blueback can remain a blueback for a couple of years.

So, these European and U.S. protesters who are objecting to the killing and selling of whitecoats and bluebacks should stay home and protest in their own front yard.

But they come to our province, where it is illegal to do the very thing they are protesting against, and where the penalties are so severe for breaking this law that nobody does it!

Of course the real reason why the protesters are here is because Canada is the only nation that allows them to get close to a seal, let alone a seal hunt.

The law in the United States is called The Marine Mammals Regulations of Alaska. That law says that no person, other than a sealer, can come to within 100 yards of a seal. A film crew in an airplane cannot come to within 1,500 feet of a seal. There is also no provision in U.S. law to allow a protester to be given a license to do what the aged celebrities are allowed to do on our coast.

Norway, renowned for its very high standard of living, directly subsidizes the seal hunt with cash paid for each seal pelt. Norway even issues hunting licenses to tourists to kill seals if they want but Norway does not allow protesters to approach a seal or be in the area of a seal hunt.

The UK law respecting seals even allows fishermen to kill all seals that approach fishing gear or salmon rivers.

Greenland has an unlimited quota to kill seals.
They estimate they killed in excess of 150,000 pup seals last year. Norway and Russia recorded 177,000 kills and they count their seals differently. They encourage sealers to kill whitecoats and bluebacks in their first year of life because of their high incidence of natural mortality. Their quotas are set so that three seal pups are counted as two adult seals.

While Canada is the only place in the world where television cameras are welcome to witness and film, on site, the killing of seals, you might have thought there was hope for change with Newfoundland's own newly-appointed federal fisheries minister Loyola Hearn in charge.

Last week the minister claimed that it is probably better to licence the protestors to come and film the seal hunt to show the world that it is well regulated and humane. Perhaps it is too obvious to point out to the minister that cameras aren't allowed in abattoirs (nor should they be) and they shouldn't be allowed on the pristine white ice fields. The abattoirs are closely regulated and inspected, and so are the ice fields."

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Big Phil
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 06:34 PM

Seal, meat and clothing for many...........

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:01 PM

Beware, I attach this opinion piece to an older thread

They eat horses, don't they?

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1163094.html

Subject: RE: BS: Sir Paul & the seals
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 06:58 PM

GREENpeace. GREEN. Money. Bullshit says I.

If the Newfoulanders could raise horses on a barren rock perched atop the North Atlanic Ocean rather than risk their lives on the ice fer seal meat they sure would.

Tastes a lot better too. I have never eaten horse, but I have eaten seal.

But, some bunch a shysters is duppin yuppie twits inta thinkin... where the fuck is Paul these days anyway? On his yatch enjoyin a big T-Bone steak? Idiot!