Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Big Mick Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:01 PM bobad, that incident with the potatoes was portrayed in the movie. Crockett told the story and how he was haunted by it. Mick |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Rapparee Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:10 PM ...Santa Anna was a really great blunderer... As his position at the Battle of San Jacinto laster showed -- not to mention his tactics during the Mexican War. A great general he was not. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:06 PM Those at the meetings that led to the Texas Republic took advantage of the fact that under Santa Ana and his rich landowner support, many in the area considered their freedom was restricted and the constitution had been subverted. Of those who formed the Republic, only 2 were native Texans, one had been born in Mexico, and the majority were from the United States and Europe. Only ten had been in Texas in 1836. Those at the meetings at Washington-on-the-Brazos were a mix of developers, entrepreneurs and politicians. Sam Houston, a close friend of President Jackson, and chosen commander-in-chief of the revolutionary army, had been governor of Tennessee and a U. S. Congressman. George Childress, who had recently visited President Jackson, presented the resolution calling for independence. Now some might think that Jackson's hand was behind the movement for independence- and the war with Mexico already in his plans. In 1836, Texas had a population of about 38000, of whom 5000 were slaves. It is true that actions of the Mexican government threatened slavery in the region, and kept some planters from the old South from emigrating or expanding to the rich lands of east Texas, but the real expansion of slavery came following the acquisition of Texas by the United States. Data from The Handbook of Texas. Concerning the Alamo itself, holing up at the old mission was a mistake, as Little Hawk notes, but Santa Anna was a really great blunderer. It is doubtful, however, that Mexico could have held on to the Southwest since Jackson and other leaders in the U. S. government were determined to push to the Pacific. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Rapparee Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:53 PM |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:47 PM Congressman. They still dine on bodies--just at an arm(y)'s distance. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: bobad Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:37 PM I recall reading an account of Davey Crockett the "injun" hunter, who as a hired exterminator for the U.S. government leading a gang of hunters, trapped a group of indians in a farmhouse which they proceeded to set afire. Davy recorded in his diary how they dined on roasted potatoes that were in the cellar and were deliciously basted with the melted fat of the injuns. Needless to say my Disnified image of Davey Crockett was altered and his demise at the Alamo was no longer the tragic loss that had been inculcated into the impressionable children of our generation. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:23 PM latest movie version is a definite advance on the old john wayne 'classic' saturday matinee hero worship ego fest.. but still leaves out too much to fit convenient running time and budget.. it'd be very interesting to see what an HBO mini series with production values and intelligence/iconoclasm of "Deadwood" and "Rome" could do with this facinating 'true-life' saga.. maybe 10 episodes with the Alamo siege occupying the middle 4 or 5 episodes, but with more time devoted to presenting the historical/political build up and consequences.. and the follow up massacre that i've forgotten the name of and dont recall ever seeing depicted in a movie..?? |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:12 PM Yeah. They get no respect. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:58 PM Santa Anna considered them as "pirates", not a legal army The modern term is "illegal combatants". |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:53 PM And that, Rap, could drive some people to drink...or worse! Things like chronic self-abuse or channel-surfing or watching the WWF... |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Greg F. Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:41 PM Art- I'm not talking about the poor dumb bastards taking bullets in the front line, but about those running the show from safety & feeding the poor slobs the bulls$hit about "The Cause" & etc.... Things ain't changed all that much in 150 years. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Rapparee Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:41 PM Right. We wouldn't have a damned thing to bitch about. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:38 PM Too true. Why, if they were....think what a perfect world we would have today, eh, Rap? ;-D |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Rapparee Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:37 PM I think it's a damned shame that our ancestors weren't the angels we obviously are. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:31 PM Yup. History is written by the winners. Never been an army yet that didn't think they were the good guys. And they all are...from their own point of view. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Rapparee Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:28 PM What I've found interesting about the Alamo have been the survivors. Even, possibly, Crockett (although he was killed after the place was taken). |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: artbrooks Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:15 PM Of the 178 Alamo defenders whose places of origin are known, 39 came from slave states, 47 from border states (Kentucky, Maryland and Tennessee), 48 from free states, 12 were born in Texas (7 of these had Spanish surnames) and 32 were born outside of the Americas. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Greg F. Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:55 PM Yup, the "Texas Republic"- a buncha U.S. slaveholders illegally taking possession of a portion of a foreign country so they could get around the fact that Mexico had abolished slavery & thus make lotsa money. Another sordid episode brought to you by U. S. "Manifest Destiny" and the Slaveocracy. No Texas Republic, no Mexican war. No mexican war, no anexing New Mexico and California. And this possibly most useless & idiotic of U.S. wars [barring the War of 1812, of course] and these territorial thefts were admirable things? Its amazing the absolute crap some folks can find to celebrate & admire. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 06 - 04:17 PM A disaster for Mexico...and a windfall for the USA. Mexico is a country with a very tragic history. What Santa Anna ought to have done was bypass the Alamo or leave an adequate force behind to besiege it...and advance immediately deeper into Texas and crush the rebellion. I'd say he was just a tad overconfident. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: mkebenn Date: 06 Mar 06 - 04:10 PM The new movie was great, and Billy Bob nailed the ambivilance of Crockett's position. Has anyone read Stephan Hardin's "Texas Iliad"? He was involed in the new flick and many of the Hist. Channel's shows.I grew up worshiping at the Fess Parker shrine, but the more I learn, the more I appreciate the sacrifice. No Alamo, no Texas Republic. No Texas Republic, no Mexican war. No mexican war, no anexing New Mexico and California. No anexetion, no continental nation. The most meaningful meaningless battle in history. Remember the Alamo!!!! Mike |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Wesley S Date: 06 Mar 06 - 02:52 PM I'll look it up. Thanks. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Alba Date: 06 Mar 06 - 02:33 PM Gates of the Alamo was very good Wesley. Another book I really liked on the topic is Brian Kaufman's, The Breech. J |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: GUEST Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:58 PM Davey Crockett red hot violin virtuoso superstar ! yeah the recent new movie was worth watching on DVD.. but curious to know which character Russell Crowe had been intended to play before money talks ruled him out ? |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:53 PM Rivals Thermopylae for courage, but in the course of human warfare there have been many such battles. It's about time it stopped, IMO. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:52 PM They had painted themselves into a corner. This was not helped by the fact that Santa Anna considered them as "pirates", not a legal army, and accordingly had no intention of sparing the lives of any that fell into his hands. |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: leftydee Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:47 PM I was at the Alamo a few years back and realised the walls are only 5'high or so. It sure wasn't the picture I had in mind from old movies. The boys that defended it surely had cajones, common sense......not so much |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:19 PM I agree with you LH ... that recent movie was well done. sIx |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: GUEST,Wesley S Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:16 PM An excellent book on the topic is Stephen Harrigans "Gates of the Alamo" |
Subject: RE: BS: Remember the Alamo From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Mar 06 - 01:08 PM Yeah. A very dramatic story. I really enjoyed the recent movie, which was far more accurate than past attempts. They showed the final attack as it really happened, in the predawn hours. The portrayal of David Crockett was wonderful...for a change. |
Subject: BS: Remember the Alamo From: mkebenn Date: 06 Mar 06 - 12:50 PM The thirteen days of glory ended at 6:00am this day one hundred and seventy years ago. Mike |