Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 11:16 PM

BOTH!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:48 PM

We have traveled full-circle with this thread.

A few weeks ago a co-worker arranged to have my son perform during the early minutes of a champagne reception in the university library where I work. The conversation reaches a dull roar after about 20 minutes, so he didn't play long, but I was so proud of him, and glad that co-workers could see how grown up and talented he is.

Fort Worth Star-Telegram Click! section where I sent photos of events in the library. Of course I included one of the the musician!

He has decided to attend the University of Arizona in Tucson in the fall, where he has a full scholarship (based upon receiving the Hispanic Scholar Award Program scholarship that UA offers recipients of this award). His father is Puerto Rican and his teachers nominated him for this award. It led to 2 full scholarship offers. Lucky young man! Lucky parents!)

My son participated in a master class in early April, and the performer and teacher, Rene Izquierdo (TwitPic of class), spoke highly of Patterson in the UA Guitar program, so I emailed Patterson before we left. Dylan will major in computer science, but Patterson arranged for one of his students to meet him during the orientation. I wanted D. to see the school, and imprint on it, but I also wanted him to know that there is a good guitar program. He can change his major if he wants, but even if he doesn't, guitar will always be important, and I think that helped make the decision easier. I'm sending him two states away to go to school, but I have a small network of friends out there, who met him during our trip. The most important part of this is that he be happy with the decision, and it was his to make.

So, mom is finished with her teaching and nudging and cajoling and whatever maneuvering one needs to go through to get a kid to the jumping off place. Soon enough he'll be out there without a net. But I think he'll be fine.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 11:13 AM

Why stop at two?

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 02:14 AM

Flat out..get both!
GfS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 06:23 PM

Around here, "both kinds" is classical and electric. Definitely a relative term. :) Good luck with the acoustic. And I grew up on the other side of the lake from where you are now.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Nick
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 06:56 AM

Two months is about 1464 hours and that's a reasonable amount of practice time to get you on the way.

"Guitar (both kinds)" - ?

Left and right handed? Strung and non strung? In tune and out of tune? Plastic or wood? Cheap and expensive? Loud and quiet?

Probably like me when I say I play music (both sorts).

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 03:06 AM

"...i need to learn the Acoustic so i spent about 2 months and i've mastered it..."

well done that man.

some people, it takes them three, or even four, months to master the Acoustic ...

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,paul delean
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 01:07 AM

im gonna be 14 on may 21 and its april i stated playing the Electric when i was about 11 and now i join a high school band with 16-19 year olds(about 6 of them my gf 1 other girl and the rest guys). i play lead and i did awesome. but after a while i got a girl friend and i made a song for her but the bad part is that i need to learn the Acoustic so i spent about 2 months and i've mastered it so like i said start out with the Electric and switch about 2-3 years later
and incase u don't believe me i was born in 1996 in romania (south east Europe until i was 3 than we moved to kent washington(near seattle)and thats pretty much it. and the awesome part my gf sings shes a year older and plays piano,guitar(both kinds), and drums! god i love my life


Paul delean from
Make it ot break it!

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 10:52 PM

If you haven't read any of them, you need to check out Jed Marum's threads. His son plays with him on a regular basis, I think.

Maybe years from now, when they're both famous and respected (and one would hope rich, but at least, comfortable!) musicians, they might stumble across this thread. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Nick
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 05:56 PM

Glad to hear his progress and that he's playing and doing well - it's nice to have a thread that spans some years with the same people in it and what has happened over that time.

I'll fill you in on mine as he is not to different in age. My son has been accepted at college in London to do a BMus degree and play his guitar for three years and then hopefully find his way into the music industry either as a session musician, band player, teacher or whatever.

Having recently joined a new band myself we may look to include him in our band between now and when he goes off to college. It would give me huge pleasure as I really enjoy playing live with him when I get the chance.

He has been asked to play in a jazz band recently, still plays a range of music and still practices and plays as much as he can.

All the best.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 08:49 PM

Last Thursday my son was hired by a co-worker to play background music during the opening minutes of a reception in the library where we work. It sounded great and he stopped when the talking got really going.

And today he went to his first master class, with Rene Izquierdo, who was here in town performing last night for Guitar Fort Worth. Here is his myspace page http://www.myspace.com/reneizquierdo. He was very good, and addressed each student at their level, but the information was useful for all, I am sure. What an amazing process. My son played a Villa Lobos etude. And among other things, learned about how to precisely trim his nails to get the best sound on the strings. It's really interesting, the upkeep of a guitarist, as well as the technique and learning the material. Each student got nearly an hour (there were 4 of them).

This has been such a fascinating process. This son, who graduates from high school in June, will have a free ride at the University of Arizona in Tucson, primarily because his teachers nominated him for the Hispanic Scholar Program award. Two schools offered full scholarships, and Arizona is a Tier 1 school. He may well end up in computer engineering or a technology or science field, but I suspect he'll pursue guitar all the way through college. Izquierdo recommended a professor in the program at UA (Patterson). So we will check it out when he makes a campus visit soon.

What an interesting process this has been. And his grandfather (John Dwyer) would be so proud of him!

Maggie

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 05:55 PM

There is some contemporary art music for electric guitar. Try Frank Martin's "Trois poemes de la mort" and John Buller's "Proenca". There's more to it than rehashing Vivaldi.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:30 PM

Thank you! One reason it has seemed to get side-tracked is because I've been reporting in the last couple of years the progress of the boy, now a very tall young man, who initially asked for the guitar and lessons. This is the follow-through part after the initial research and help from Mudcatters. I will admit, that I still kind of forced the issue, in having him start with classical even though he thought electric was the best guitar around. He bought an electric after the first few months of lessons and didn't mention it to his teacher, but I finally did, because I want him to know we all think both are okay, we just wanted him to start with classical; lessons include both classical and electric now.

A little over three years ago to the day, my son started classical guitar lessons with Michael Dailey of The Guitar Studio in west Fort Worth. He teaches there plus lessons at several area colleges and universities, and is well-respected in his field. He used to front for a couple of rock bands, but he mostly teaches classical guitar.

It's pretty thrilling for a parent to listen to the stages, to have heard the moment when the classical music turned the corner from being an exercise to being a passion, and it's interesting to listen to the process of parsing rock and classical sometimes, and merging them at others.

We've tended to go the reverse direction of what John H. recommended, but I think it is a typical route to follow and one that Dylan might have done IF I hadn't grown up with a father who studied classical guitar (with Don Firth) as he was toward his interest in being a folksinger.

At this point, my imput is to pay for lessons, to drive him over, and on occasion remind him if he of it if he hasn't taken one or other of the guitars over for a lesson in a while. The rest is up to him.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,Guest John Hartford
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 02:53 PM

hi

It seems as if this thread has got a little side-tracked from the original question.

In trying to get back to advice on what type of guitar to buy for a beginner - :

many ideas have been expressed above and most of them have some merit.

However I believe that it is all-important to learn music in the way that it is most enjoyed by the beginner.

I would advise that the novice finds out what other young bands are around and what they play and try to get involved in some way with them.

This will point the boy at where he wants to go. It will become natural for him to decided what type of guitar he wants to play.

At this stage IMHO it doesn't matter whether it is accoustic or electric, if he gets good enough it will be easy to move between instruments.

He will learn the rudiments as he goes alaong and as he does so he will indicate his keeness to continue. At this stage it would be in the parents' interests to consider finding and funding a good teacher - there are many around.

Any good musician will tell you that at this stage there is no substitute for PRACTICE.

My guitar tutor told me many moons ago when I asked him if he could teach me to play. He replied no...but that he could teach me how to practice how to play...the rest was up to me.

Happy Learning

John

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 02:05 PM

I've been hearing some wonderful classical pieces coming out of the classical guitar, including an increasingly good rendition of the "Malaguena." But lately I've heard some good classical pieces coming out of the electric guitar. The presto movement in the Summer portion of Vivaldi's The Four Seasons is really intense when transcribed and played on electric guitar.

Isn't this interesting? To see what a kid can do when he asks for a guitar and lessons?

If you follow on his facebook page you see that he's into the rockers who really know their theory and have a classical background. His latest remarks have to do with one I don't know (that isn't suprising) called Yngwie Malmsteen, from Sweden. His Wikipedia page shows some interesting work:

Malmsteen became notable in the mid-1980s for his technical fluency and neo-classical metal compositions, often incorporating high speed picking with harmonic minor scales, diminished scales and sweep picked arpeggios.[citation needed] Four of his albums, from 1984 to 1988, Rising Force, Marching Out, Trilogy, and Odyssey, ranked in the top 100 for sales.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 May 09 - 11:44 PM

Recently sighted on the facebook page of a certain 17-year-old:

"(His Name) is infatuated with the double harmonic scales."

:-D

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 May 09 - 11:48 PM

That is awesome, Maggie!

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 May 09 - 03:46 PM

Don, there are some very nice recordings of this piece on YouTube. I did listen to the John Williams one first--it is an old recording.

When I was poking around I evidently clicked on the playlist for someone who included this piece and had a nice hour or so listening to a sequence of wonderful guitar pieces. It might have been the Vojislav Ivanovic performance in Sydney, Australia, that set it off. After the first piece I wasn't watching the browser window, but I let it play in the background. I have good speakers on my computer that makes this work. My office computer has tinny little flaps of vibrating paper in the monitor frame that sound cartoonish in their renderings. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 09 - 03:00 PM

Wow! Dylan must be coming along right well!

"Clearly he enjoyed the sounds he was making and immediately began practicing more to improve the sound."

The mark of a musician!

Villa-Lobos Prelude #1.

Too bad the sound quality of this clip is not better (at points, it sounds a bit like a tape that's running unevenly), but John Williams is a superb guitarist, and there are some good close-ups of his hands. I learned this back in 1964 when I was taking lessons from Bob Flanary (a former student of Aaron Shearer, who wrote a bunch of classic guitar technique manuals). That is, I used to be able to play it. I think I'll dig out the music and see if I can re-up it!

I've never had the privilege of meeting Dylan, but I think he's inspiring me!

Here's another Villa-Lobos piece, Choro #1, played by another excellent guitarist, David Russell.

I've just finished reading Practicing: A Musician's Return to Music, by Glenn Kurtz. I found it downright agonizing to read. One of the many ideas he highlights is that it's one's perpetual failure to achieve the perfection one strives for that keeps one practicing and reaching for that unattainable perfection. Without that, there is no progress. Yet, like the arrow in Zeno's Paradox, it never reaches its target. Agonizing, yes, nevertheless, it was a very inspiring book. It got me to thinking about my own musical career, what I did right, what I did wrong, and what I would do if I had the chance to do it all over again.

In a way, I was luckier than Kurtz in that he focused entirely on the guitar, whereas I took up the guitar as an adjunct to singing. But then, that gave me two areas of music in which I would never achieve that sought for perfection. But—one does what one can. And what one must,

Glenn Kurtz was interviewed on NPR by Scott Simon some months back.   CLICKY.

And Maggie, one can not say enough about the importance of a supportive parent in the development of talent. As long as we were serious about something, my sisters and I always had the support of our parents. With the financial support of my father and the hard work of my mother (playing chauffeur, taking care of costumes, the protective instincts of a mother bear, and dozens of other things), my sisters both became national figure skating champions.

When I started classic guitar lessons and I didn't have enough money to buy my first classic guitar, my mother consulted with my teacher, then bought the guitar for me (a Martin 00-28-G) and said, "Think of it as an early birthday present. And Christmas."

I don't know, but I think there are sainthoods given out for that sort of thing. Good on ya!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Midchuck
Date: 01 May 09 - 08:31 AM

I've only played an electric guitar once...

As I began to covet the guitar I was playing....I sobbed a mighty sob, then gazed at the skies and cried out, "Get thee behind me, Satan!!" and put the guitar down!

Wow! That was a near thing!

I had exactly the same experience just a couple of weeks ago, but it involved a "banjitar" (6-string banjo tuned as a guitar).

Power corrupts.

Peter

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 May 09 - 12:23 AM

Villa Lobos Prelude #1 now--he's once again engrossed by the feel of playing and the sounds and it is such a pleasure to listen to him practice. He memorizes the music and then as he practices he works on parts and learns to make the sounds correctly. I had such a difficult time memorizing music when I was taking piano lessons--I am in awe of his ability to do this, but I won't say anything, because I don't want to jinx it.

Meanwhile, with birthday cash he bought a big electronic pedal of some sort for the electric guitar, and I've walked in at his dad's house to find him lounged on the floor, in the dark, totally engrossed in making amazing sounds come out of the electric. What a rock star. . .

Paying for these lessons has been difficult. My bank balance would be healthier without the monthly expense, but this is easily the best money I've spent over the last three years, to hear him totally engrossed and entertained by the process of learning is what every parent can only hope for.

I've thought about Nick's recording of his son's work. Until my son is ready to start recording things himself, I won't try to record anything for playing here. When he's ready, we'll know. But I would love one day to have recordings of his playing just for the pleasure of listening, so I hope that day comes sooner rather than later.

What a musical adventure this has become!

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 10:57 AM

He has been gripped by the Villa Lobos piece. Clearly he enjoyed the sounds he was making and immediately began practicing more to improve the sound. He already does the same thing with rock pieces on the electric guitar, but I think now the classical has gained more traction with him. It took reaching a level where the music can pull him along.

My son will be 17 in three weeks.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Nick
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 09:53 AM

>>What a pleasant piece to come home to! Thank you for sharing that. How old is he now?

He was 17 last Saturday.

>>if I can convince my son to take the bit harder road for a while (classical guitar and the techniques that go with it)

I reckon the knack is that he convinces himself. The desire to do it for himself is the thing. When my son got his last exam result he was pleased (of course) but he then disappeared off to his room and did his usual practice to improve his technique. His friends say - 'ah but it's easy for you...' but they don't see the practice. He sees it as fun. Motivation in music is enormously self generated. I pick up and play guitar or mandolin every day but am pretty undisciplined in my practice but I guess he has grown up in a world where there is always some sort of music going on and always an instrument to hand to play and I find it hard to walk past a guitar without picking it up for at least a few seconds.

My other son was different. He became interested in music after we watched the Sound of Music and I showed him how to play Doh a Deer on the piano. He went on to learn to play the piano to a decent standard and can still sight read a piece of music really well but he got bored at some stage. He didn't want to do grades and he got tired of playing classical tunes. He had a period of time when he learned some jazzy tunes and other things but then just stopped. He'll never forget how to play but I doubt it will be a part of his life in the same way as his brother.

I guess it's the difference between being playing music and being a musician.

Hope your son gets the pleasure that mine has.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:22 PM

100! Might as well grab it. :)

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:21 PM

What a pleasant piece to come home to! Thank you for sharing that. How old is he now?

This thread started out with the goal that I think has continued fairly unaltered for me--as a parent there are things I know about the process of learning an instrument, and if I can convince my son to take the bit harder road for a while (classical guitar and the techniques that go with it) then anything else that comes later will be easier for him. And if he stays with classical, that's fine, but that isn't the ultimate goal. I wanted to help him develop the skills that give him the most choices in his musical life.

I don't know that my kids will ever some day say, at the Grammy's or whatever, "Thank-you Mom, for making me take classical first." Or even sitting around one day playing for the grandkids and have him say "Mom was right about taking classical." I just want him to be able to pick up the guitar he wants to pick up and be able to play it, or learn how without agonizing about the steps he left out when he was learning the first time around.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Nick
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 08:36 PM

>>Sharing your passion for music with the next generation can be very challenging.

Speaking personally I'd have to say rewarding yes, challenging no.

Perhaps my experience is different than others. My elder son learned to play the piano so we offered our younger son the opportunity to learn and instrument if he wanted to. He didn't want to. Until...

A fiend of his at school started playing (about 6 and a bit years ago) and so he thought he'd have a go too. He had some lessons at school and we bought a spanish guitar for him. He just enjoyed playing and practiced and practiced and loves it. Never asked him to practice or do anything he just does it for him. I bought a Strat copy for me a few years ago as I wanted to play an electric (mid life thing and I don't like cars and don't want an affair) and he started playing that. I played my first proper gig with him when he was 14 at Fibbers in York and it has been a real joy to get to play together at a few places.

Now he has a bunch of friends who he plays with and gets involved in a classical guitar quartet, plays in a couple of jazz bands, collaborates with a guy the other end of the country on music that they write together, plays occasional gigs with me and friends and the rest of the time practices.

One of the huge joys is coming home, like tonight, and listening to him and a friend practicing together. I snuck in my Zoom recorder and you can hear a bit here - it's a couple of spanish guitars and a spanishy-jazzy thing but I don't know what it's called (sounds like that Al de Meola/John McLaughlin/+flamenco player album that I have somewhere).

Acoustics or electrics? I'm not too sure it matters.


http://www.esnips.com/doc/2ae38c42-f92a-443a-b47d-35bf6baf2811/jazz

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 04:32 PM

I stumbled upon a remark on Facebook about a favorite musician of his. He noted that the guitarist was versatile and displayed a strong understanding of the theory behind the music. These things go together for him, and make the music more powerful.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 02:11 PM

Sharing your passion for music with the next generation can be very challenging.

My son, who has had his own group for nearly nine years now, once thanked me for making him learn on an acoustic guitar first. I had played for years, self-taught and with a poor ability to sight read. When he said, at age 5 or so, that he wanted to be a "rock star," I had a chat about basics with him.

I told him we would get a guitar for him to use, but that he would have to demonstrate that he was serious by taking lessons, learning music theory and staying with that program for at least two years. At first, he was angry that he wasn't getting an electric. But, he did all he was asked, learning with a steel-string Yamaha.

He started picking up my classical guitar and spending more time with it along the way. We eventually got him his electric, an inexpensive Squier. Within a year, he had sold it and bought his own Takamine classical guitar, with which he continued his lessons past the age of fifteen. He told me that the musical discipline and versatility he now enjoys comes from the basics we asked of him when he was starting out.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Nick
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 10:04 AM

He learns the piano at school as part of his A level music as an alternative instrument and for a bit of fun but his guitar is all outside of school with a private tutor.

The exams were via the Registry of Guitar Tutors. There is info about them on the site.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 09:51 AM

I don't know what the grading system is you're talking about, but it sounds like he is taking classes in school? For the time being, we're paying for extracurricular private lessons once a week, year round. I have quizzed this child any number of times about what he wants to do when he goes to college or if he has given any thought to which college, but I don't have an answer. I'm sure music will be part of it, whether it is as a formal program or a favored hobby.

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Nick
Date: 12 Feb 09 - 09:22 AM

My son has just started playing classical guitar after playing mostly electric guitar for the last few years. He intends to go to music college after his A levels in 18 months time and so needed to do his grades in preparation. He got his grade 8 on electric guitar (with a 95% distinction) in December and is now doing classical guitar with the aim of picking up a grade 6-8 over the next year or so. One of the things that his tutor thinks is that classical guitar will also have benefits on his electric playing in terms of rhythm and expression.

Very different to his electric playing (most of his interests are in the rock/Vai/Satriani area and jazz) where his prime interest is in writing and improvisation. It will be interesting to see where it all ends up but he is a fine player already and loves it all. I think it's great to have a hobby that you love so much - it was his 17th birthday on Saturday and he had three friends round playing music (and chess) for most of the day.

He has an interesting range of techniques from a (growing) classical one to tapping and legato techniques which are more applicable to an electric but the fluidity and the speed that he can play at is very much from his electric playing. His current tutor is very much technique based and my son practices his arpeggios and scales and runs with his metronome so his fundamental technique is solid even though he started as an electric player.

And yes his guitars (compared with mine) are much more expensive. He plays an Ibanez JEM7V and a seven string Ibanez RGB and that pretty much put paid to all the pocket money.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 04:15 PM

It is an Ibanez, a modestly priced one that a kid could afford as a good practice guitar, and an amp he bought separately (sometimes there are guitar and amp packages, but those are to generally be avoided, apparently).

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 02:55 PM

Yes, indeed, Maggie, I sure your Dad would by proud of his grandson! It sounds like Dylan has come a long way in a few short years. That Villa-Lobos Etude is not overly difficult, but it's not an easy piece either. You need to have some technique under your fingers before being able to tackle that!

Etude 11 by Villa Lobos.

####

I've only played an electric guitar once. One afternoon, I was visiting a friend who was working as a bartender in a place that had jazz in the evenings. The place was practically deserted, and the lead guitarist's axe was sitting up on the bandstand. I mentioned that I'd never played an electric and my friend said, "Why don't you try the guitar? I'm sure (he mentioned a name I don't remember) wouldn't mind." So I got up on the bandstand, the bartender turned the whole shebang on, and said, "Go to it!"

I hauled off and did some finger-picking stuff like "Freight Train," "Railroad Bill," and a few others, then tried a classic piece or two. I became overcome with lust! All that brute power at the turn of a knob!

As I began to covet the guitar I was playing, it suddenly occurred to me that in the gear around me—amps, speakers, miscellaneous foot pedals for various effects—I was looking at megabucks worth of equipment.

Thinking of the state of my bank balance, I sobbed a mighty sob, then gazed at the skies and cried out, "Get thee behind me, Satan!!" and put the guitar down!

Wow! That was a near thing!

I love my classic guitar and the music I can play on it, and I would never part with it, but electrics are sure fun to play. . . .

What brand of electric does Dylan have?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:47 PM

Stilly, they are really two different instruments. It depends on the kind of music he's interested in. For rock, a low action, fairly good pickup is adequate. Also, a good amplifier.
Not a cheap sounding one.

For folk, a playable neck and a pleasant sound. Yamaha or Takemine are cheap but good.

Motivation is important here. What style?



Frank

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 01:16 AM

Stilly, I admire your parenting. Congratulations to the both of you.

Since he was mentioned a bit at the top of this thread - I have a couple of Chet Atkins stories. Back in the 80s he and his band stayed at the motel I was operating at the time.

His band members went out and about but Chet stayed in. He would wander over to the office with his big -unlit - cigar just to hang around.

Whenever I passed his room I would hear him in there with his music. The man still practiced...

The day they left they came to the office to say goodbye and his bass man said, Don't you want a picture of Chet?

I was taken aback - I don't usually do that kind of thing - but I said, Oh, yes. Oh, sure.

I got my camera and we went outside. He stood by the car and I snapped the picture. He got in the car and they backed out of the slot.

I droppped the camera. Into a water puddle.

I felt bad, because I knew they probably saw the accident. But I still have the picture- it is kind of dark but it did come through.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 09:53 PM

Catching up on the guitar lessons:

He has been alternating between classical and electric for a couple of years now. After a year or so he bought the electric, but didn't even mention it to his teacher, I'm the one who did. Since this is clearly something he is motivated to learn, and his teacher is very wise (and has also played electric and opened for various bands) he suggested Dylan bring it in, and they alternate back and forth, a few weeks on one, then on the other.

Tonight he is in practicing Villa Lobos, his Etude #11. Sounds magnificent! He's come a long way. This may or may not be a easy piece to learn, but it is satisfying, to know he is at home with and enjoying a range of music, from Metallica and Segovia.

Don, my Dad would shed tears of joy, I'm sure, to know how happy Dylan is to be playing, and to be doing it on his own terms. And by extension, it was exposure to your teaching all of those years ago that led me to help him with these choices. Thank you so much!

Signed,

One Happy Mom, with one Happy Son :)

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: kerryguy7
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 09:38 AM

You're right Scrump, I should have mentioned that I have played bagpipes in the past. I can sight read music and have previous experience playing acoustic guitar in the past. When I played guitar I simply played chords...all self taught...simply copied what I saw in some instructional books.
So, at this point I am trying to learn from the start, as they say.
But...I do read music, I am certainly not a stranger to music theory either.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Grab
Date: 15 Mar 07 - 09:26 AM

Hmm, missed the refresh of this last time.

Some brilliant players who've taken electric techniques or songs and put them on the acoustic guitar are Michael Hedges, Eric Roche (both sadly deceased), Thomas Leeb and Rodrigo y Gabriela. Rodrigo y Gabriela in particular play some amazing flamenco-style covers of Metallica songs. If he's into the whole crossover thing, I suspect he'll like them.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:57 PM

If your first love is electric - buy electric! I would guess that in this day and age most aspiring young rock guitarist would go straight to electric. For £100, a kid could get a reasonable electric guitar and a small amp.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 03:50 PM

Oddly enough, a classical guitar, and (even some classical guitar lessons) are probably a better place to begin for the aspiring electric guitarist than a steel string acoustic guitar.

The reason is simple--scales. Classical guitarists learn scales in positions up and down the neck. Electric guitarists play a lot of single note stuff, up and down the neck. People who start out on steel string acoustic guitars tend to learn to play open block chords, which don't really tend to be that interesting on electric guitar.

It is possible to learn to play on an electric guitar, and there are some reasonable, inexpensive ones out there--the thing is(and I know this has been said, but it bears repeating) that there is too much extraneous stuff going on with an electric guitar--chords, amp, tone, volume, pickup configuration--a beginner needs to focus, multitasking, at the beginning, can be an unsurmountable barrier--

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:51 AM

I can see that I should have made the thread title to "Classical vs Acoustic vs Electric." I've learned a great deal, and realized I had to consider more than just the amplified/non-amplified question when we approached these lessons. I'm glad to see others visiting the thread to make the same comparisons, and Wesley, thanks for the name. I'll look up that guy. I'm planning to take him to the Eliot Fisk concert at TX Wesleyan on Mar. 23. That's through GuitarFortWorth.org.

I've sent a photo to Pene Azul to add to my Stilly River Sage pages. It is of my son at his lesson, to add something to the body of knowledge this thread is attempting to convey. He's enjoying his lessons, and is saving to buy an electric guitar. When his student guitar (on order from a company in Spain) comes in this is one that his teacher says is good to learn on and is a good second guitar. And Dylan is welcome to buy as many additional instruments as his budget allows, once he earns his own money. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Scrump
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:44 AM

Any suggestions as to how an "old guy" :) like me can better master this here instrument?

Kerryguy, it would help us to advise you if you answered these questions:

1. Do you know any musical theory? I think it may be helpful to know some musical theory, but this isn't essential to play well (there are plenty of good guitarists who didn't/don't know any musical theory).

2. Have you played / do you play any other instrument(s)? If you already play (say) piano it may help to pick up another instrument, from the point of view of understanding how to play chords, etc.

Not essential as I said, but it helps us to know what your musical knowledge is.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 11:10 AM

Learning guitar/acoustic vs electric: First remember that the objective is to play MUSIC....
Having said that, acoustic is the better choice for many reasons. TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE TONE...IS THIS GETTING THROUGH TO YOU? An acoustic guitar is a teacher. It instructs you by allowing you to hear notes on a primordial level, it builds strength because the strings are usually heavier. It is portable.(Yeah, yeah, I know. So's an electric. But you gotta bring the EQUIPMENT, MAN! The groupies. the agent, the underassistant promo man, the wardrobe changes, the lighting, the sound system, the rehab program. Are you laughing now?) O.K. let's continue... You can FEEL it. By it's very nature, it encourages you to play Rhythm, chord patterns, structures that are the very core of music. Every kid wants to Rock out like the big guys he sees on T.V. So Mom and Dad go to the music store and get the guitar , the amp, the lead cord, and the kids gotta have a PEDAL right? He can't TUNE the thing, so they get him a tuner. But in this storm the only thing you have done is inject NOISE into the picture. I have seen a guy who could play lead like Van Halen, but the guy DIDN'T KNOW A CHORD! INCREDIBLE! First, get an acoustic guitar. Do your homework first by learning about acoustic guitars, how the wood should match, how to spot good tuners(keys), how to check if the neck is straight, the names of the strings, how to put them on, how to care for it. Then learn to tune by EAR! No tuner! Then you learn chords. And LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN can you hear me over there?! The progressions will come next. Your hand strength will grow, you will come to understand the importance of tone.(I hope) And then, the time will come when that desire to play electric guitar will be satisfied. But when that happens, you will have been prepared to meet the electric monster on your own terms. You will know what a chord is. You will know HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO SOUND! Then you can take that and add electric enhancement to it, the power, the distortion, etc. But hopefully, if you have followed the path, you will be playing MUSIC, and not making NOISE. Love Yas. bob

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: kerryguy7
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 09:07 AM

I too am just learning guitar. I am 55 years old and I used to play (chords only...and very poorly!) way back when I was in my mid-twenties.
I just purchased an acoustic. After some advice from a salesman at Guitar Center here in Grand Rapids, I purchased an "Epiphone 150".
I am trying to learn on my own BUT I might throw in the towel and decide to spring for some instrutor led group classes.
Anyway, for what it is worth...I was told to begin learning on a simple acoustic guitar that sounds good and has a fairly good overall tonal quality.
I was told that if I progressed far enough and if I was interested in extending my playing capabilities then and only then should I invest in an electric guitar.
Any suggestions as to how an "old guy" :) like me can better master this here instrument?

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Y_Not
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:47 AM

I think it is a great thing for a young person to take up a musical instrument and the main lesson to learn is the instrument is a tool with which you make music.
I would say in my opinion it would be best to learn on an acoustic guitar, you hear an immediate response to the technique that you apply and the sound that you create is a true result of your imput.
In any Art form Music/Dance/Painting/Theatre and so on, you need to aquire the basic knowledge, this is then a platform from which you can experiment, pursue and perfect your chosen style.

Learn your scales! this is the fabric with which you weave your dreams.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 08:08 AM

Stilly - You might want to check out Richie Blackmore. From what I've read he went from hard rock { Deep Purple - yeah the guy that played "Smoke on the Water" } to performing Renaissance music. I understand that it's pretty good stuff but I haven't heard it personally.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: pirandello
Date: 14 Mar 07 - 07:29 AM

I have been playing guitar for over forty years now so I hope I can speak with a little experience behind me.
Firstly, start your son on acoustic guitar.
Secondly, get the best guitar you can afford for him. So-called 'student' guitars can be uninspiring musically, difficult to play and ultimatel off-putting.

When I began, all those years ago, most guitars in my price range were unplayable dogs which I had no option but to persist with; I wouldn't wish that on anyone!
An easy playing guitar is inspirational, encourages a student to practise and will speed up the learning process.

A good, solid-topped, well-made instrument at a very reasonable price is the Yamaha FG 720S and is my recommendation. My first decent guitar was a Yamaha FG I got in 1969 and I lived with it for years.

Good luck to you both.

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 07 - 11:00 PM

Don and Bob, I sent you a very large attachment in an email this evening. It hit Don's Earthlink spam filter (I have the same one in place, but I think I have you in my address list). Check your suspect mail and add me to your list. I included a couple of addresses in there. The photo (in two sizes, one for a photo print, one for web or email size) is of Dylan at his lesson today. Note those beautiful long fingers. He's a natural! :)

Maggie

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: oggie
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 05:32 PM

It totally depends on what he wants to do. Our son, Peter, plays keyboards and anything else he can lay his hands on. He is into the sound something makes and at the moment that is electric. He can play (untaught) my acoustic guitar (or mandolin) but he wants a particular sound. In his case we found (at half price in a sale) a twin necked 6/12 string Tanglewood electric (just under £200) to which he's added a Line6 pod. It makes wonderful music (and noise) and is in tune with what he wants to do. It helps that as an ex-chorister he has the basic musical knowledge so he doesn't need formal lessons but then I never had music lessons either and play too many instruments as well.

To me the important part is getting that spark that so they want to learn, play, improve. If they don't want to play an acoustic guitar then no amount of cajoling about how it will helpp them later wil work - unless you bribe them "get to this standard and we'll buy you a Gibson/Ibanez/Fender" (delete as applicable).

All the best

oggie

Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
From: LukeKellylives (Chris)
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 06:01 PM

I, myself, am 15.

*Shock and awe*

If you want my opinion on what to get a fourteen-year-old who has both rock and folk tastes, I'd go with getting him a hollow or semi-hollow body electric. It might be a little more expensive, but it transposes for folk and rock easily. It also can be played without an amp and sound like an acoustic (if you ever actually did that). I, myself, want a semi-hollow or hollow body...But I have too many guitars and mandolins lying around as it is! My room is kinda small, so I am constantly getting it piled up. Gotta make room for some more instruments around for my obsession with banjos and fiddles. ;)

So, either get him an acoustic-electric, or some kind of hollow-body electric (Which is your best bet, if you ask me!).

DO NOT start him off with one or the other if he has both rock and folk tastes.

I have mainly folk tastes (Irish and Scottish), and I had to go over six months with the absolute torture of only having my brother's Squire to play traditional folk music! It was horrible!