Can We Talk About Tip Jars?

Subject: Tech: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 03:57 PM

Of course one doesn't put one out at a concert, but what about at a pub/bar gig?

Or does it even look too much like begging there?

Does it make a difference if it's a Tip/Request jar?

For folks who do put them out, what do you use?

How does people attending pub/bar gigs feel about them?

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 04:10 PM

Clinton I have a good friend who uses them. A Guiness glass attached to a PA stand. He always has used them but he doesn't point it out. It's just there. He says it is often gas money home.

My band has never used them and we don't take tips from the audience to do a request. No real reason other than we are hired to do a job and we are already paid. You always get someone who insists and stuffs a fiver in your shirt pocket while you are playing. That money always goes to the barmaid who is hustling drinks for the band.

I'd say they are neither good bad or indifferent. And some places in central NY don't allow them.

Don

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 04:23 PM

" A Guiness glass attached to a PA stand."
I'd like to see his rig for that!

" I'd say they are neither good bad or indifferent"
Just so long as you're sure Don
,-)

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 04:31 PM

Hi Clinton,

It is actually a drummer's glass holder he got from a music shop.

I just clamps on a one inch round tube with a wingnut.

And the one thing you can count on in life is only a fool is positive.

Don

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 04:36 PM

Kinda like this Don?
http://en.woodbrass.com/product_info.php?products_id=20243&af=35

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM

a much better pic

http://www.thedangleberries.co.uk/ebay/beer buddy/big.jpg

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 07:19 PM

A rather curious custom in the US, similar to the tip jar but slightly different is sometimes called the "conscience jar."

It probably will be difficult for most to believe, but there are rather strict rules on exchanges of gifts, gratuities, and other "monetarily significant" things between government contractors and military and/or civil service people they may deal with. A very few local government offices and "public service agencies" may have similar rules.

When having a party, where drinks or sometimes even trivial "snacks" are provided, the strict observance of the rules would preclude inviting those who aren't allowed to accept "freebies," or making some sort of arrangement for them to "pay" for what they get.

A common solution is to provide the "conscience jar" so that those who aren't supposed to take free stuff may deposit their "payment," in whatever amount their conscience demands.

Thus the perfect argument for having a "jar" present is that it's for those who feel guilty about taking free entertainment (or whatever else might be provided) - if you invite a politico or gendarme or some other such "representative."

A subtlety of the practice is that the first person to make a deposit in an empty jar may feel quite conspicuous, so it's sort of a custom for the sponsor to "prime" the jar with a couple of bills. (Most waitresses I've known do that with tip jars too.)

On reflection though, since I've noticed that the entire content of the conscience jar usually disappears with the first civil servant or military non-com who leaves the affair, it might not get you much gas money.

John

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 07:57 PM

(Most waitresses I've known do that with tip jars too.)

Buskers too....

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:56 PM

Exactly like that Clinton. Did you get a price?

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Kaleea
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 01:00 AM

One night the band I was playing with was hired for a fundraiser. We had just done several rather lively tunes on which I alternated Whistle & Bodhran. (Bodhran & Whistle jokes aside) Some gentlemen had walked up to us just as I was setting down my Bodhran-open side up-& they proceeded to put some nice tips in. Not to be outdone, some other gentlemen, a bit more oiled than the first bunch, put some higher denominations in. After that, the boys suggested I bring my old Bodhran & keep it in front of me for just such necessities.
Believe it or don't, the first time the band ever got any tips was when I played a Whistle tune. The next time was when the Fiddler & I did a warp speed reel just Fiddle & Bodhran. Ah, the power of Irish Music.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 02:47 AM

Friend I occasionally accompany has a really old beat up accordion case with the legend visible when opened "Donate spare change?"

He had it in front of him one day when playing at a charitable event. At the end of the day there was $1800 in it!

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:07 AM

Kaleea:

Perhaps it was to stop you picking the thing up again & playing it!

CHEERS

Nigel

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:21 AM

Well at least it's a good use for one side of a bodhran!
Now about a good use for the other side, any suggestions?
G.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 11:43 AM

"Exactly like that Clinton. Did you get a price?"

Yup... eBay is thick with them...

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 11:47 AM

So, Jeremiah - Did the $1800 go to the charity or to the accordian player? Just curious.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 12:17 PM

At most pubs I've played at it's perfectly acceptable to put out a tip jar. On occasion, when I've forgotten to put one out, people have asked where it was.   I have used a glass, a pitcher, or sometimes an actual jar or can labeled "Tips". I would never point it out or mention it or in any way make the audience feel obligated - after all I am getting paid to perform. But in some cases people seem to really want to show their appreciation. On a good night I have come away with $80 to $100 in tips for a five hour shift - usually it's around $30 - $50. I always perform requests if I know the song and never ask for a tip in order to do so, but a lot of times people just put money in the jar anyway. I find the audience's generosity varies in different areas - I usually make a lot more in tips up in Northern Virginia than Richmond. As long as the tip is optional and you're not making the audience feel like they must tip you or insinuating that you're not being paid and depending on tips, I think it is fine as long as the pub owner has no objection.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 12:22 PM

"I think it is fine as long as the pub owner has no objection."

Ahhh... good point... but if the wait-staff can collect tips, why not the entertainment?

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 04:14 PM

"So, Jeremiah - Did the $1800 go to the charity or to the accordian player? Just curious."

It did go to the event, 'thurg'.

Myself, I think I'da been sorely tempted to take gas money ($10 or $20), but only 'cause I'm generally that broke these days.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 04:17 PM

I'da split it 50/50

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 04:32 PM

Jeremiah - My faith in accordian players is restored.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 05:42 PM

I put out a tip jar at pub gigs. Those gigs usually don't pay much, unless it's a big occasion, such as St. Pat's, and even then there are place that pay minimally. It's pretty de riguer, then, as Maryrrf points out, to put out a jar to offset the low pay. We in turn leave a tip for our server/bartender.

Are tip jars not common in the UK? Some of the posts suggest that.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 07:12 PM

I caught Mike West doing his act in New Orleans, and he makes quite a thing of having a tip jar.
He has a large cowboy boot in which to place your tips. He points out that his boot is bigger than Sneaky Petes smaller boot, but that they share the procedes and put them to a good cause, namely Sneaky Petes mothers bail money!
He has a very polished act, and this part always gets a good laugh, as does his constant banter throughout.
Do yourselves a favour and see this man if you get the chance.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:27 AM

The only reasons I can think of why a pub owner would object to a tip jar would be:

1) He/she might feel the tips would cut into the waitstaff's tips

2) He/she might feel that patrons would feel obligated to pay for entertainment when the performer is already being paid a fee - so the performer would be "double dipping" and some patrons might resent the fact that the entertainment was not free.

However as long as the tip jar is just out there and the performer is not begging for money I don't see why it should be a problem. I think making humorous references to the tip jar is okay (just so people will know it's there) as long as it isn't overdone.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: gnomad
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:53 AM

Tip jars in the UK? Not common in folkie circles, don't know about the rest of the music scene. I have once or twice seen something offered for a particular request, but it isn't the norm. Also people sometimes buy a performer a drink or put the price behind the bar.
Entertainment is generally seen as an amateur matter, with the pub patrons accepting the music, rather than looking (and paying) for it.

I did recently see a paid non-folk performer pass out a jar in a pub. The crowd reaction was decidedly frosty as the money was for the performer. I overheard a number of comments that had the collection been for a charity purpose it would be different, what was described above as a "double dip" was seen as quite out of order.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:11 PM

Wow... what a bunch of cranks the UK must have....

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Gedpipes
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:21 PM

The last time I put out a tip jar, a gagdy put a note in it which read. Tip: don't play tune xx again it was crap.


Seriously. It is not usual to do this as gnomad suggest. People listening to a group of session musicians might but them a drink but that would be it. There would not be an expectation on behalf of the musicians.

Wow....what a grasping lot in the US...:-)

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:30 PM

I don't use one any more, but years ago when I did (in pubs only), I had a large glass 2 liter-beer mug labeled "Requests".
I'd tell the audience to write their requests on a beer-napkin and put it in the jar.
I never mentioned money.
Of course, the dough would come in with the requests.
As time went on, I'd do a humorous bit about tips.
"Please write your requests on small green portraits of American presidents - and the more obscure the president, the more likely you are to get your request played.
My personal favorite is President Benjamin Franklin!"

At the end of the night, I'd tip the bartenders and waitresses out of the jar, and I'd have a few bucks for gasoline.

Nowadays, if someone leaves a tip on stage, I give itto the staff.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:01 PM

"Tip: don't play tune xx again it was crap"
LOL!

"People listening to a group of session musicians..."
Not talking about sessions... They are a WAY different beast from a gig.

"I never mentioned money"
Clappin's the butter, but we could sure use the the bread....

"what a grasping lot in the US"
Donno... I'll ask them next time I'm in the US....

"I had a large glass 2 liter-beer mug labeled "Requests"
I was toying with the idea of labelling mine, "Guinness Fund" and painting it to look like a pint of stout....
Or maybe "Folkie Retirement Fund"
"Support Your Local Folker"
"Need Gas To Get Home"
"Will Folk For Food"

Now I'm just getting silly....

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Gedpipes
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:02 PM

stop being silly - now!

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:17 PM

Clinton, if you paint it to look like a glass of stout, they might think it's real and not put anything in it. Or then again they might...
"Clinton's Pension Plan."
"Help Me Make It To My AA Meeting."
"Loonies For A Loonie."

Seamus

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:27 PM

Only quitters go to meatings, and nobody likes a quitter

But I do like "Loonies For A Loonie" kinda....

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Lady Hillary
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:38 PM

How can it be wrong for a folkie to put out a tip jar when even major performers put some sort of container on top of a piano or other large instrument when playing cabarets?

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:36 PM

One of my favorite labels on a tip jar (albeit at the coffee bar in a performance venue, and hence for the serving staff not the musos) is: "If you fear change, leave it here"

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:39 PM

That's GREAT!!!

LOL

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:45 PM

I may be a grasping, clutching, scraping, clinking, clanking, covetous old sinner, but I don't understand why someone would give a significant portion of their own tips to the wait staff, other than out of pure charity. After all, they don't give a portion of their tips to you, do they? and generally speaking, they're probably going to walk out with more money in their pockets than you are (after you've paid your bar bill!)

Don't get me wrong; I'll tip the staff in proportion to my bill and their service, but I don't see any relationship between that and what someone may have given me for singing their mother's favourite song (Danny Boy). Am I missing something here? I mean that honestly; I'm not trying to put anyone down, I'm just curious as to the rationale behind what seems to me an odd practice.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 04:55 PM

I suggest you try findng a gig in a better paying establishment ... or maybe one that does pay.

sIx

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:07 PM

I'm with GUEST 04:45 PM when it comes to entertainers 'tipping out' wait staff...   Though I have played gigs in a place where ALL the nights tips went into ONE pool, and were divided equally between servers, bartenders and entertainers.... It was an interesting idea that failed in the implementation unfortunately...

Number 6... PLENTY of paid musicians put out tip jars.... So what's your beef?

Ya know what, on second though.... Don't answer that... It's probably not relevant....

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:27 PM

I'm (was) getting paid considerably more than they are. My tips were a bonus.
Plus, they brought requests and beer to the stage for me.
I believe I can anticipate the next question - "If you're making more than they are, why do you need a tip jar?"
Answer, I don't anymore, but 30 years ago it was a nice little boost to the income.
And it feels good to help others feel good.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: labougie
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:46 PM

On the pub circuit in the UK, tip jars are pretty ubiquitous. The landlord doesn't mind - no skin off his nose and and it makes the band happy. Surprisingly, SOME music promoting publicans actually like the music and don't mind seeing the band happy! It normally goes round half-way through the second set and the best way to get it full is to ask the prettiest, sassiest member of your entourage to go round with it. There is an element of good-natured cajolery involved.

Ars Gratia Artis.
Pecunia Gratia Dulce Iesu H. Christus Impalato.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 06:44 PM

I've never seen the tip jar passed around at an American pub it's usually up on or near the stage in a spot that's easy to reach.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,guest 04:45
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:33 PM

Seamus - Thanks for the response. I guess it never occurred to me that a musician might be making more than the wait staff ...
Anyway - more power to ya!

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:38 PM

CH ... lighten up gu .... what's the beef, don't worry about it, I'll take it as it is ... I know it can be pretty busy there behind the butcher counter.

sIx

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 08:16 PM

When we are 'working' , we are usually on a reasonable wage , so do not expect tips , though at the end of the night we do get the occasional banknote , with a 'get yourselves a drink on me lads' sort of comment . When we are doing 'street' entertainment , a lot of people assume we are busking , even though we dont have a Receptacle for tips in front of us . If we get enough small change , it sometimes buys a drink and a sandwich at breaktime !

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 08:31 PM

We don't put out a tip jar unless it's a charity gig.....and then we are donating our time. We don't need or want the money.

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:50 PM

Tacky. It seems to be a UK type thing.... it is very close to busking.... which is a little below begging with a bowl.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

You are insulting the owner of the establishment...by implying he does not pay enough. You are insulting your profession because you don't demand your worth. The "tackiest of tacky's" are those "musicians" that stuff a couple bills into the jar at 6:00 p.m. to "prime the pump."

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:58 PM

One of the prides of "the colonies" is that few, with a marketable trade, ever need to resort to begging.

However, from the past few years, from this Yankee's MudCat view, it appears that poverty has reduced professionals in the UK to a less than a third-class-seat in the lodge.

Sincerely sorry to read about the collapse of the socialist-experiment.

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: JWB
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:46 PM

While busking in Boston years ago I learned that using a spittoon as a tip jar is a bad idea if there are drunks around -- they'll try using the receptacle for it's original purpose. I once had to wash $50 in quarters and $1 bills...

Jerry

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:59 PM

Around here if there is performing entertainment there is a cover charge at the door to pay for the artist ... otherise the entertainment is 'open mike' and no one is certainly going to pass the hat around for either. I've bought some musician friends who are playing a beer ... and we have had (like Sorcha mentioned) 'open mikes' for charitable events .... but beyond that I have never seen a bucket for cash up on the stage.

sIx

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: JWB
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:15 PM

sIx,

Can you teach me how to play a beer? I only know how to drink it...

:0)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Can We Talk About Tip Jars?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:18 PM

Well I'm sure tip jar customs vary from country to country and from region to region. I see tip jars frequently around here (Virginia)even in places where there's a cover charge. I don't think putting out a tip jar is begging unless the performer is on stage whining and asking for tips. People know that they CAN put some money in the jar to show their appreciation for a song well done, or sometimes if they've enjoyed the evening they'll put something in the tip jar as a "Thank you" as they're leaving. It isn't like the tip you give the waiter or bartender, which (in the United States) is part of his wage and if you don't tip you've stiffed him/her. Leaving a tip in the performers jar is entirely optional and I think everybody understands that.