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BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...

GUEST,Morganstern 11 Mar 06 - 08:35 PM
Peace 11 Mar 06 - 08:40 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Mar 06 - 09:26 PM
Bobert 11 Mar 06 - 09:30 PM
GUEST,Morganstern 11 Mar 06 - 09:38 PM
bobad 11 Mar 06 - 09:41 PM
Don Firth 11 Mar 06 - 09:58 PM
Rapparee 11 Mar 06 - 10:33 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Mar 06 - 10:39 PM
GUEST,Morganstern 11 Mar 06 - 10:48 PM
GUEST,Bill D 11 Mar 06 - 10:54 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Mar 06 - 10:55 PM
Peace 11 Mar 06 - 11:03 PM
Peace 11 Mar 06 - 11:05 PM
Rapparee 11 Mar 06 - 11:16 PM
Don Firth 11 Mar 06 - 11:32 PM
GUEST,Wally 11 Mar 06 - 11:34 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 11 Mar 06 - 11:36 PM
Kaleea 12 Mar 06 - 01:32 AM
Peace 12 Mar 06 - 02:16 AM
*daylia* 12 Mar 06 - 06:29 AM
GUEST,WYS 12 Mar 06 - 06:59 AM
Rustic Rebel 12 Mar 06 - 08:23 AM
skarpi 12 Mar 06 - 08:27 AM
Azizi 12 Mar 06 - 08:37 AM
greg stephens 12 Mar 06 - 08:42 AM
Rustic Rebel 12 Mar 06 - 08:53 AM
Amos 12 Mar 06 - 09:42 AM
Azizi 12 Mar 06 - 10:39 AM
autolycus 12 Mar 06 - 10:45 AM
Rapparee 12 Mar 06 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,M.Ted 12 Mar 06 - 12:29 PM
Clinton Hammond 12 Mar 06 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,thurg 12 Mar 06 - 12:46 PM
artbrooks 12 Mar 06 - 12:57 PM
Don Firth 12 Mar 06 - 02:53 PM
Bagpuss 12 Mar 06 - 02:56 PM
gnu 12 Mar 06 - 03:37 PM
Bunnahabhain 12 Mar 06 - 04:03 PM
GUEST,Wesley S 12 Mar 06 - 04:34 PM
skarpi 12 Mar 06 - 06:26 PM
Rapparee 12 Mar 06 - 09:41 PM
Little Hawk 12 Mar 06 - 11:05 PM
Boab 13 Mar 06 - 12:04 AM
Peace 13 Mar 06 - 01:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 13 Mar 06 - 09:23 AM
GUEST,Mrr at work 13 Mar 06 - 12:00 PM
Bill D 13 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM
Peace 13 Mar 06 - 01:14 PM
MarkS 13 Mar 06 - 01:18 PM
gnu 13 Mar 06 - 01:21 PM
GUEST,amergin 13 Mar 06 - 01:27 PM
Rapparee 13 Mar 06 - 01:54 PM
gnu 13 Mar 06 - 02:18 PM
Little Hawk 13 Mar 06 - 02:25 PM
frogprince 13 Mar 06 - 02:52 PM
Rapparee 13 Mar 06 - 03:17 PM
Bill D 13 Mar 06 - 05:15 PM
Peace 13 Mar 06 - 05:19 PM
Rapparee 13 Mar 06 - 05:21 PM
Rapparee 13 Mar 06 - 05:23 PM
Little Hawk 13 Mar 06 - 05:36 PM
khandu 13 Mar 06 - 07:26 PM
khandu 13 Mar 06 - 07:31 PM
CarolC 13 Mar 06 - 07:42 PM
Little Hawk 13 Mar 06 - 07:53 PM
GUEST,AR282 13 Mar 06 - 10:35 PM
Bill D 13 Mar 06 - 10:44 PM
CarolC 13 Mar 06 - 10:57 PM
Little Hawk 13 Mar 06 - 11:37 PM
CarolC 14 Mar 06 - 01:57 AM
Rapparee 14 Mar 06 - 08:58 AM
Don Firth 14 Mar 06 - 07:06 PM
Peace 14 Mar 06 - 07:11 PM
Bunnahabhain 14 Mar 06 - 07:36 PM
GUEST,Cluin 14 Mar 06 - 09:25 PM
Don Firth 14 Mar 06 - 10:56 PM
Little Hawk 14 Mar 06 - 11:22 PM
Bill D 15 Mar 06 - 09:57 AM
Rapparee 15 Mar 06 - 11:06 AM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 12:01 PM
number 6 15 Mar 06 - 12:16 PM
CarolC 15 Mar 06 - 12:16 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 12:29 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 12:42 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 12:51 PM
CarolC 15 Mar 06 - 01:13 PM
MMario 15 Mar 06 - 01:18 PM
Don Firth 15 Mar 06 - 02:36 PM
Bill D 15 Mar 06 - 02:46 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 03:46 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 03:51 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 03:56 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 04:21 PM
number 6 15 Mar 06 - 04:26 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 04:33 PM
number 6 15 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 04:51 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 04:52 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 04:54 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 15 Mar 06 - 04:57 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 05:00 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 05:05 PM
Peace 15 Mar 06 - 05:58 PM
Bill D 15 Mar 06 - 06:32 PM
CarolC 15 Mar 06 - 06:36 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 06:39 PM
Rapparee 15 Mar 06 - 07:04 PM
Don Firth 15 Mar 06 - 07:35 PM
Peace 15 Mar 06 - 07:39 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 08:36 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 08:38 PM
Clinton Hammond 15 Mar 06 - 09:15 PM
Rapparee 15 Mar 06 - 10:42 PM
Bill D 15 Mar 06 - 11:01 PM
Bill D 15 Mar 06 - 11:02 PM
CarolC 15 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM
Little Hawk 15 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM
Peace 15 Mar 06 - 11:12 PM
Bill D 15 Mar 06 - 11:15 PM
CarolC 15 Mar 06 - 11:18 PM
Don Firth 16 Mar 06 - 04:28 PM
rock chick 16 Mar 06 - 04:39 PM
Rapparee 16 Mar 06 - 04:42 PM
Don Firth 16 Mar 06 - 08:00 PM
Don Firth 16 Mar 06 - 08:03 PM
Peace 16 Mar 06 - 08:07 PM
frogprince 16 Mar 06 - 08:18 PM
Little Hawk 16 Mar 06 - 08:32 PM
Don Firth 16 Mar 06 - 08:50 PM
Rapparee 16 Mar 06 - 10:43 PM

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Subject: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Morganstern
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 08:35 PM

...telepathy, psychic healing, the "hollow Earth" theory, ghosts, an immortal soul, "laying on of hands" healing, the power of prayer, reincarnation, transubstantiation, hypnotic regression, past lives, multiple universes, faster-than-light travel, Lemuria, shape-shifting, lycanthropy, the akashic records, secret masters in Tibet, out-of-body experiences, chimpanzees that talk and write books in 7 languages, after death schools for the soul, multiple levels of spiritual existence, magnetic therapy, the "Greys", alien abductions of Earthlings, the "Philadelphia" incident, the back engineering of alien technologies from downed spacecraft, the Bilderberger group, the Fountain of Youth, the book of Mormon, hamster replication, lucky charms, and astrology?

Do you? Or don't you? Are you a believer? Or are you a sceptic?

Fight about it all here on this one thread henceforth, and save precious bandwidth... ;-))


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 08:40 PM

No thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 09:26 PM

"the book of Mormon"

Scientology is better fiction....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 09:30 PM

Altantis???? Matbe, mabe not...

UFO's???? Definately seein' as I have seen one... (No, I didn't get carried off in it fir a few laps around Earth...)

God???? Definately... Haven't seen Him but seen what He has done in my life... No other plausable explanation... And with my knowldge of Him I see His workings more and more very day...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Morganstern
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 09:38 PM

I wagered the guys in the bar that Clinton Hammond would be on this thread within the first three posts, about as quick as a coon hound is on a rotting cadaver. I win! Thank you, Clinton, thank you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: bobad
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 09:41 PM

Interesting article on scientology in Rolling Stone mag.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology?rnd=1142130986625&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.872


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 09:58 PM

Faster-than-light travel? Having just seen a science documentary in which a couple of heavy-duty physicists explain how it may be possible, circumventing rather than contradicting Einstein. Rapidly rotating mass warping space in its vicinity and producing gravity waves that could envelope a star ship and whup it along rather briskly, even FTL (Star Trek anyone?). The way it was explained, the physics is there, but the engineering problems are a bitch! Remains to be seen.

Multiple universes. Just reading a book by theoretical physicist Michio Kaku in which he says that it's very likely. Parallel Worlds : A Journey Through Creation, Higher Dimensions, and the Future of the Cosmos. Mind boggling. A function of string theory. Multiple universes, parallel universes, multiple (up to eleven) dimensions. Very likely.

Gotta think some more about a lot of the others. Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 10:33 PM

All of them! Yes! And lots more you didn't mention! Spontaneous human combustion! Tir na nOg! After death experience! Transubstansiation! Virgin Birth! Ragnarok! Odin! Angus! Balor! The Grey Lensman! Appartants! Doppelgangers! PR flacks! Hell, I even believe that there was once an honest politician!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 10:39 PM

"I wagered the guys in the bar"

So you can put that with the quarters you get from sucking them off in the mens room, and maybe one day buy yourself a clue


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Morganstern
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 10:48 PM

You've got me mixed up with your sister, Clinton.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 10:54 PM

♫ "I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows..."♫


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 10:55 PM

Nope... don't have a sister....

Nice try... But becareful.... things as old as THAT 'comeback' get brittle....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:03 PM

♫Be bop a lula...♫


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:05 PM

COPYCAT POST

RE: BS: Do you believe in CEOs, Cod, Atlantic...


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:16 PM

No, I can't say that I believe in the Atlantic. That's just too much to swallow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:32 PM

And the whole concept of Cod seems a little fishy to me.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Wally
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:34 PM

It's hamster replication that really intrigues me. It could explain a lot that's happened in the past century or two.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:36 PM

I dunno, but one thing I don't believe is that bandwidth is so frigging precious that we need to worry about wasting a bit of it if people feel inclined toward starting separate threads on some of the various subjects mentioned.

What happened? Did all the bandwidth wells in Nebraska suddenly run dry? Or did the bandwidth mines in North Dakota get mined out? Do we need to start a campaign to have bandwidth declared an endangered species so people who waste it can be arrested? Should we be sporting bumper stickers that say "Fuck the Whales! Save the Bandwidth!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Kaleea
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 01:32 AM

Geez, guest, all those normal, everyday things? I suppose that the next thing you'll be telling us is that Elvis isn't alive!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 02:16 AM

Elvis Costello IS alive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: *daylia*
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 06:29 AM

I don't 'believe in' a *blessed* thing these days. Except maybe for Potholes.

Just consider Wolfgang, myself, Pied Piper....and even Clinton...as potholes to negotiate as you drive ...

I have unshakeable faith in the Mudcat Pothole Gallery!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,WYS
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 06:59 AM

I believe in ALL of them, but I follow ONE of them.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 08:23 AM

I'm glad you said that, Bee-Dubya-Ell, before me.

I believe in Dolphin Boy.
My mind's eye, play toy.
Everyday he brings me joy,
Eating fish made of soy.
♫♫♫

Actually, I also believe in a lot more, for instance look up my thread on God is an alien.

Peace. Rustic
P.S. I knew Clinton would hit this one too!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 08:27 AM

Halló all, good saying Susan

"I believe in ALL of them, but I follow ONE of them."

there are other liveforms around us , it´s in my house
I can´t sleep becouse of it :>( somtimes ) but they are not bad
I just have to learn to live around and with them .

Alians? we are alians, and there are others out there some where
I have a question , why are always US goverment trying to avoid
people who has seen those things? what is so inportant to hide from us ?
do they have somethings from the alians or an alian ? what can´t
we know ?
There are people out there who has things and won´t talk about them
becouse noone would believe them , and I am among those people
havings these for my self is inportant exept if i find one of us
to talk to ,well I have to go but I am a believer and until I
die I keep on doing that , Believe.

All the best from Iceland, skarpi.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 08:37 AM

Good for you, Skarpi.

I'm a believer too. But I don't believe in trying to convince others to believe in what I believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 08:42 AM

I believe in folk music. And beer. And that the Da Vinci Code is a well-written and plausible book.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 08:53 AM

Well now Ms. Aziza, with all respect intended,
To converse on any given subject or to teach a subject, does not necessarily mean to convert or convince or change, unless one listens and understands and maybe, just maybe, will except a new idea/concept. (breath)
If I didn't read/hear others ideas, beliefs, theorys, I'd have had to come up with a hell of a lot of my own!

Peace. Rustic


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 09:42 AM

I don't get it? What's not to believe?


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Azizi
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:39 AM

I hear you, Rustic Rebel.

More power to those folks who bring up for serious, considerate discussion such non-traditional metaphysical subjects as telepathy, precognition, reincarnation, karma, and astral projection.

Every one has to choose which subjects they will talk about here, and which they won't. For the most part, I choose not to converse about those subjects here.

I figure I have other subjects to talk about with 'Catters and Guests.

Positive vibrations to you!

Azizi


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:45 AM

I believe for every drop of rain that falls,
Someone gets wet.

(S.Milligan)

   Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 10:51 AM

As Tom Paxton wrote, "I'm a simple man/I believe."


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,M.Ted
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 12:29 PM

If you don't believe, nothing is possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 12:37 PM

I got a wallpaper on my desktop, as was seen on Mulders office wall in X-Files... the "UFO" hovering over the trees, with the caption, "I Want To Believe"

Only the way I read it.... I WANT to believe... but in the absence of any solid evidence I cannot.... I remain open to examining that evidence however.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 12:46 PM

I recently read a book called The Airmen Who Would Not Die by John G. Fuller, and I'm not having any luck finding any commentary pro or con concerning the book or the cases it looks at ... What I'm wondering is how well Fuller's documentation stands up. Anyone know anything about it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 12:57 PM

Multiple universes. Imagine, a place where honest politicians and liberals (as currently defined by neo-cons) actually exist!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 02:53 PM

In this immense universe, there are untold billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars, most of which are "main sequence" stars like the sun. What we now know about the formation of stars indicates that a main sequence star like our sun without a planetary system would be unusual indeed. Given that there would most likely be a planet or two orbiting in the "temperate zone" around most of these stars (where water would be in a liquid state), and given what we know about evolution (sorry, creationists), that if life can evolve, it will evolve, statistics alone indicate that there must be an immense number of planets in this galaxy, not to mention all the other galaxies, upon which life of one sort or another exists. Life and evolution being what they are, some species on these life-bearing planets may very well develop intelligence. Some of these species may develop along scientific/technological lines. If they don't kill themselves off in wars (the jury is still out on this this planet), some of them may develop long-range space travel and go in search other intelligent life. And it is conceivable that some of these alien civilizations may have visited, are currently visiting and observing, or will sometime in the future visit this planet.

The contention of many who have seen, or believe they have seen, Unidentified Flying Objects is that UFOs are space ships from one or several of these alien civilizations visiting our planet. This could very well be true. Although I must admit to strong skepticism, given that there is not just the possibility, but the likelihood that civilizations exist on other planets, I find I cannot rationally rule it out.

But it is a gross leap of logic to automatically assume that an Unidentified Flying Object is an alien space ship. The operational word here is "unidentified."

I have seen UFOs. I have seen many UFOs.

Skeptics, bear with me now.

At night, I often see lights in the sky, but I cannot identify exactly what the Flying Object bearing those lights is. But I use my ears as well as my eyes and I make some assumptions. Since the Interstate 5 freeway is not too far from where I live, I can usually hear that the Object as quite probably a traffic helicopter. At least I assume that's what it is. Also, one of the flight-paths to the Seattle-Tacoma International airport passes high over the building in which I live. When lights pass high over the neighborhood and I hear what sounds like a multi-engine jetliner, I also assume that that is what it is. At dusk one evening a few years ago I saw an Object bearing lights following a curved path coming in from the west and turning south onto the Sea-Tac flight path. Other than the lights, I saw it at an odd angle and only in silhouette. It occured to me at the time that what I saw looked for all the world like the Klingon cruiser that Kirk and crew had commandeered and used in Star Trek: The Voyage Home. But since I couldn't see it that clearly and it sounded like a multi-jet airliner, I made a leap of logic and assumed that was what it actually was. Perhaps I jumped to a hasty conclusion. Perhaps I lacked imagination.

[I do sincerely believe, however, that perhaps the government of the state of Texas, and definitely Washington, D. C., have been taken over by surgically altered Ferengi!]

Many flying objects I have seen, I can identify. I know a robin when I see one. And with a park nearby, there a crows everywhere. I spotted what I know to be a Brewer's blackbird out in the Green Lake area, and I once actually saw an American bald eagle circling over downtown Seattle. A bird-watcher friend of mine told me that there is a pair of bald eagles who nest in Discovery Park, and although they usually dine on fish, occasionally they like a change of diet and go downtown to snack on the urban pigeon population.

Can you imagine how startling and amazing it would be to be sitting near the Henry Moore sculpture (sometimes refered to by local wags as "dinosaur droppings") in the open area across Fourth Avenue from the new Seattle Public Library on a warm day, eating your lunch, when a great white-headed raptor swoops in, grabs one of the ubiquitous gray pigeons bobbing about on the sidewalk a few feet from you, and streaks off into the sky with the unfortunate pigeon in its mighty talons?

But I am no ornithologist. I can identify most common species, but as a bird-watcher, I'd make a better plumber. Hence, I see Unidentified Flying Objects every day.

But it is possible that someday when I am moseying through the aforementioned nearby park, a disk-shaped space ship may land near me, and an alien who loves artistic singing may step out, wave its tentacles at me, and say, "Take me to your lieder."

Always endeavoring to be a good host, I will, of course, comply.

Don Firth

(Another slow day at the skunk works.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bagpuss
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 02:56 PM

I believe in life after love


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: gnu
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 03:37 PM

Nere a 'ope me zon. If the DFO 'adda done their job, see, there still be lots a cod. If Brian Tobin... what? "U"FO? Well, FU too. What? Little green men? The fookin Portageese ya means? Wit their jeezly big freezer boats 'n all? Yees b'y, seen em meself. If I'da 'ad me tree-ought-tree wit me, buddy, I'da 'ad at the bastards 'n... what? Outer space? Loik, spaced out? Ye means the mainlanders? No? What? From the sky? the sky? What?! Ere ye fookin daft man?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 04:03 PM

...telepathy, psychic healing, the "hollow Earth" theory, ghosts, an immortal soul, "laying on of hands" healing, the power of prayer, reincarnation, transubstantiation, hypnotic regression, past lives, multiple universes, faster-than-light travel, Lemuria, shape-shifting, lycanthropy, the akashic records, secret masters in Tibet, out-of-body experiences, chimpanzees that talk and write books in 7 languages, after death schools for the soul, multiple levels of spiritual existence, magnetic therapy, the "Greys", alien abductions of Earthlings, the "Philadelphia" incident, the back engineering of alien technologies from downed spacecraft, the Bilderberger group, the Fountain of Youth, the book of Mormon, hamster replication, lucky charms, and astrology?



Well looking at the original post, there are three groups of things in there.

1. Various things that simply cannot be proved or disproved, at least within any concievable science or technology; ie death schools for the soul.

2. Simply impossible things. The Chimpanzee throat does not it allow to speak, let alone seven languages. A hollow earth just does not work etc etc.

3. Things born out of paranoia. Yes, there could be a flying saucer based on alien technology flying out of the Nevada desert. But it all seems rather unlikley, and given just how bad the Goverment is at keeping stuff secret, how come they suddenly got good for this?


In short, I don't believe in any of them. Some of them may be true, but I don't feel the need to believe in them. I believe in love, but that's a different matter....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 04:34 PM

"Do you belive in Magic" ? How about the Loving Spoonful ? John Sebastian ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: skarpi
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 06:26 PM

Hallo again ,

"But I don't believe in trying to convince others to believe in what I believe" . I don´t either.

Azizi , you don´t have to and you know when our people
are with us .


all the best Skarpi Iceland.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 09:41 PM

Not only do I believe in infant baptism, I've actually seen it done!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Mar 06 - 11:05 PM

Scary. Can't say I have...


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Boab
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:04 AM

Do these Bilderberg Bastards STILL rule the roost???


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:02 AM

Yeah. But now they're called Neocons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 09:23 AM

I believe everything I'm told - Why would anyone lie to me?

:D (tG)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Mrr at work
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:00 PM

Nope


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM

ahem....(if you see my name, and your first reaction is "uh-oh", you'd best skip this...☺)


*begin semi-relevant practical rumination*

Consider the phrase "believe in". Implicit in the very construction is that you 'could' not believe in. That is, the type or degree of proof involved is not absolute, and the interpretation of supporting data and evidence is usually highly subjective.

*IF* such is the case, I usually avoid even using the words 'believe' or 'not believe' for my opinion. I prefer to refer to it all in terms of what I'd be willing to act on, bet on, 'trust' as a pretty reliable working model...etc. (Evolution might be a case in point...the evidence for it keeps getting stronger and the underlying model of 'how' it works becomes more complex AND coherent every day.)

Flamenco Ted, however, has shown me nothing that would make me accept purported messages from the fairies in his garden..☺

In between are some notions that sure are 'interesting', and worth examining....(UFOs and aliens, for example).....to me 'belief', is relevant only to the idea that I sure 'believe' that other life forms are obviously possible, but mathematically likely. This does NOT cause me to 'believe' that they come here....that remains 'interesting' and worth examining.

It's all in the personal attitude and proclivity to need to believe one way or the other.


*end semi-relevant practical rumination*


(oh...and of course, I DON'T believe that "for every drop of rain that falls, someone gets wet" TRILLIONS of rain drops fall on uninhabited areas every day... ipse faxit- quo demonstrandum est - Nil sine, numine - Post hoc, ergo propter hoc - illegimati non carborundum - Carpe Diem, and MAGISTER MUNDI SUM!)

back to our regualrly scheduled BS...as you were!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:14 PM

This is a disturbing thread. I didn't need to have Santa shot outta the air like that. Or the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny. Is NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: MarkS
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:18 PM

Post hoc ergo proper hoc. Finally an explanation of why women laugh when I ask them out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:21 PM

Of course NOTHING is still sacred. Why, I try to do NOTHING ever day. I am happiest when there is NOTHING to do. I am a true believer in NOTHING. NOTHING is the true path to anything. Put your trust in NOTHING. Amend!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:27 PM

shouldn't the kendall groupie thing be listed in here as well?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 01:54 PM

Why does Kendall get all the groupies? How come I don't have groupies?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 02:18 PM

You do, Rap. I await every one of your posts with baited breath. Or, is that the mackerel?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 02:25 PM

There are tiny living beings in every location on Earth, Bill...microbes, single-celled organisms, protozoa, lichens, etc. Therefore, "for every drop of rain that falls, someone gets wet". ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 02:52 PM

microbes, single-celled organisms, protozoa...
Baloney! all fallacies promulgated by atheistic secular humanist scientists! If those things really existed, they would be mentioned in the Bible!


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 03:17 PM

Betcha not, LF....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:15 PM

so, Little Hawk, even IF I allow you to apply the term 'someone' to entities which have bo discernable self awareness , we have this drop of rain which falls down into this vent stack over a furnace which is engaged in sterilizing and destroying bio-hazards....

only takes ONE counter example out of hundreds of gazillions.. ;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:19 PM

hundreds of gazillions

I recall that the Japanese made a film about one. Don't think it was hundreds, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:21 PM

Not much living in or on


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:23 PM

THIS river, I'll betcha!


(Sorry, hit the wrong button.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 05:36 PM

Okay, Bill, ya got me there...but...wai-i-i-i-t a minute...that raindrop has gotta hit a few micro-organisms on its way down through the air, right? Why, I bet it even contains a few inside itself already! Therefore it STILL got someone wet!

(isn't debating fun?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: khandu
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:26 PM

I do not know how to do "♫♫♫" on my computer.

Kk


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: khandu
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:31 PM

<>♦


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:42 PM

Has it been definitively established that there never was a place called "Atlantis", then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 07:53 PM

No....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:35 PM

But can the ontological dilemmas posed in the Book of Urantia be juxtaposed in convincing fashion with the theological implications expounded in the pages of Oahspe? And will this have serious consequences on the Celestine Prophecy and will it somehow involve Billie Meier and the Secret Chiefs of the Argentinum Astrum and the White Brotherhood in the City of Pyramids? Or not?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:44 PM

ah, Little Hawk, probability says a rain drop will 'likely' hit micro-organisms on the way down, not that they MUST!

(yeah, and silly debates can be almost as much fun as serious ones!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 10:57 PM

Anyway, that drop of rain that lands on the vent stack turns into steam, right? And it then re-forms and drops on some other location. So through the miracle of water re-incarnation, it can probably be said that eventually, for every drop of rain that falls, someone gets wet.

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Mar 06 - 11:37 PM

Beautifully stated, Carol. Now we have Bill on the ropes, staggering in confusion, as his mind stalls before the irresistible force of our well-reasoned and unchallengable arguments. ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 01:57 AM

Damn straight, LH.

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 08:58 AM

What about my lava? Life exists on/in that??


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:06 PM

Groupies? I have gropies. That's even better!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:11 PM

Life in lava.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 07:36 PM

Of course there's a place called Atlantis.

There's one just south of Bumfuck, Iowa, and another in the wilds of New Zealand.

And there's at least one club called atlantis, and if you get dragged there, you better hope you don't remeber the night...


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 09:25 PM

Then there's that Darby O-feckin-Gill and the little feckin' payple.

"To be shure, have ye nivver sung the Wishin' Song, at all, at all, at all, me bucko?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 10:56 PM

The first mumblings about a place called "Atlantis" that sank beneath the waves way back came from no less a person than Plato. Now, where he got his information, nobody seems to know. Whether he had actual historical data, had been listening to legends and giving them credence, or sniffing glue, is unclear. He believed that it was "beyond the Gates of Hercules" (the Straits of Gibraltar), which, one presumes, puts it somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean. It sank, says Plato, during a massive earthquake. He did not, however, say that it was a marvelously spiritual and technologically advanced civilization; he believed that, at one time, it had been a military threat to Athens.

All the stuff about some marvelously advance, utopian civilization living on a place specifically called "Atlantis," complete with paranormal mental powers, possessing magnificent ships and flying machines powered by some mysterious kind of crystals (dilithium, no doubt), came from folks like occultist Helena Blavatsky and her cadre of woo-woos. This was accelerated by the writings of Richard S. Shaver. Shaver wrote for Amazing Stories, one of the more popular science-fiction pulp magazines (lots of the biggies—e.g., Azimov, Heinlein—got started there), and he wrote a lot about such things as the lost continents of Atlantis, Lemura, Mu, and maybe even others. He also came up with that "hollow earth" business (any planetologist, or scientist in general, or anyone who understands planet-sized bodies and gravitational forces, knows that this is physically impossible). Shaver, with the collusion of the, then, editor of Amazing Stories, Ray Palmer, claimed that, although he was putting this stuff forward as fiction, it was all true. A young Harlan Ellison, never known to be particularly shy, recognized it for exactly what it was, and gave Shaver and Palmer a heavy ration of grief about the so-called "Shaver Mystery" they were trying to peddle. Thanks partially to Ellison's gadflying, and, of course, the amused and amazed snorts of the scientific community, it became known as "The Shaver Hoax." Nevertheless, it developed a substantial cult following. Self-styled psychic Edgar Cayce predicted that Atlantis would rise out of the Atlantic Ocean near the Caribbean in 1968 and usher in a New Age. (Damn! Missed it by that much!).

Genuine historians and archeologists believe that if something like Atlantis every did exist, it was probably the island of Thera, or possibly Crete, both of which were inhabited by relatively advanced societies (advanced in terms of social structure, economy, and standard of living—but no flying machines or telepathy—sorry!). Unfortunately, Thera was a volcanic island, and sometime around the 15th century BCE, it perished in a massive volcanic explosion that hurled gigatons of matter into the upper atmosphere and caused a massive tsunami that devastated much of the eastern Mediterranean, particularly the Minoan civilization on Crete. Thera, or Crete, or both, may be the factual basis for the belief in the legendary Atlantis, and where Plato got the idea. Currently, the island of Santorini is shaped like a partial ring. It, and some nearby islands form what is left of the rim of the caldera of a huge volcano and all that remains of Thera. People live there. The island has no fresh water, so they have to collect rainwater in cisterns. They have a small wine industry (volanic soil usually produces good grapes), but the main industry is tourism.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Mar 06 - 11:22 PM

Plato may have had actual historical data about Atlantis. If so, it has been lost, along with much of the other information passed on from earlier times. A great many ancient records are said to have burned in the great library in Alexandria during Julius Caesar's fight with the Egyptians.

If Plato was serious about Atlantis (and one assumes he probably was), it seems pretty evident that he did not mean (the remains of) Thera or Crete. They were definitely not located "beyond the pillars of Hercules", but were within easy reach of Greek ships in Plato's time.

Why would he say "beyond the pillars of Hercules" unless he meant it? After all, it is a rather striking thing for him to have said. Beyond the pillars of Hercules was a place where Greek vessels did not willingly venture...perilous and unknown waters, in their opinion. Their galleys were not suitable ships for venturing into the deep Atlantic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 09:57 AM

remember, Plato said that Atlantis was thousands of years before HIM...and even Thera was 1200 years before Plato. Records in those times were pretty sparse and vague and based on legends and hearsay. Distances and directions were not measure exactly, and the civizilations we DO know about from 10000-12000 years ago that were not destroyed in disasters were pretty primitive.

It takes a huge leap of faith to assume that Plato had any real 'data'. All the looking may well find interesting stuff about some settlements and fill in some gaps, but I won't hold my breath that we ever discover a large, advanced 'different' group worthy of attaching the name "Atlantis" to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:06 AM

I believe that Atlantis = Tir na nOg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:01 PM

"Records in those times were pretty sparse and vague and based on legends and hearsay."

Heh! A mere assumption on your part, Bill, and one that cannot be substantiated. They may have had ancient maps of Atlantis. They may have had written records of contact. They may have had artifacts. You're suggesting that OUR legends and hearsay NOW about matters a few thousand years prior to Plato are just as good or more accurate than his information then was? ALL we have about it now (Atlantis) is legends and hearsay. Plato may have had a good deal more than that.

I would not underrate the acumen of the learned men of Greek civilization if I were you, Bill. They had a lot of knowledge that was later lost in what we term "the dark ages".


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: number 6
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:16 PM

My wife and I met an elderly expatriate American lady (very interesting person)living in St. John's Newfoundland ... she had arrived 40 years previously due to some 'calling' ... anyway her theory was that Newfoundland is part of the lost continent of Atlantis ... take or leave it, but an interesting theory by her explanation.

BTW ... she had one of the most intriguing back yard gardens I have ever seen.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:16 PM

Has anyone ever come up with an explanation of the Piri Reis map of Antarctica? Piri Reis was a 15th century Turkish sailor, and the map shows the coastline of Antarctica as it would be if it was not under a covering of ice. Antarctica was not "discovered" until the 19th century, and the ice has been there far longer than the period of time covered in the recorded history now in our possession.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:29 PM

Read Plato... it's OBVIOUS he was writing FICTION as social commentary when he wrote about Atlantis...

It's fiction... always has been... always will be....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:42 PM

Piri Reis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piri_Reis_map

"... the claim that the map depicts a portion of the ancient Antarctican landmass has certain criticisms. Firstly, the map is large-scale and low-detail, and the landmass pictured is arguably not accurate enough to be matched to any actual landscape.

Secondly, any similarity it may have to modern radar imaging of the Antarctica under the ice may be irrelevant, since in the period when Antarctica was not covered with an ice cap its shorelines may be so different as to be completely unrecognizable, due to the pre-icecap sea level being significantly higher, and thus obscuring a great portion of the sixth continent.

Thirdly, for it to be Antartica one would have to explain why the South American east coast ends at the mouth of the Amazon. Clearly it does not, the landmass depicted is just the continuation of the coast and includes features of Tierra del Fuego and the Malvinas/Falklands."

For what that's worth.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 12:51 PM

You may be right about Plato, Clinton.

What is more interesting is not whether you are right or wrong about that, specifically, or about anything else, but why you are of a mindset that almost always puts you instantly in defence of the most conventional viewpoints of present-day culture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:13 PM

Heh. The Wikipedia page didn't come up in my Google search on Piri Reis.

...maybe it was abducted by aliens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: MMario
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 01:18 PM

I believe in hamster replication. I've seen hamsters both begin and finish the replication process.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:36 PM

"Methuselah lived nine-hundred years. . . ."

According to the Book of Genesis, 5:27:   And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

That may be regarded by some as "The Word of God," but it doth stretch mine credibility, and probably thine as well. I think they had some fairly fuzzy ways of measuring time back in those days (and "those days"—Biblical times—overlap the age of the Greek philosophers). And this, of course lent some equally fuzzy time-lines to legends, such as the legend of Atlantis.

The Greeks, especially those of the Aristotelian persuasion, were a lot more precise, having made a number of basic scientific discoveries that still hold up pretty well today, and were pretty amazing considering how little, beyond their own observation and intelligence, they had to work with (no Hubble telescopes or computers). But I think Plato's estimate of when Atlantis sank was probably something in the nature of "one helluva long time ago." Then, when somebody asked, "Well, how long ago?" the answer he came up with was a wild guess. 1,500 years? 15,000 years? Remember, "myriad," a rather imprecise term meaning "approximately 10,000" was a commonly used word to indicate "I don't know how many, but a whole bunch!"

And the same goes for distances. Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote a lot of stuff about what was going on up on Mars, but that was a long way from here, we didn't know much about the place, and at the time, no one could check up on him. And both he and H. Rider Haggard wrote a lot of stuff set in deepest, darkest, dankest Africa, which, at the time was only very sparsely explored. Methinks "beyond the Pillars of Hercules" had the same mysterious aura of unexplored places back in the days of Plato. Terra Incognita, "Here Be Dragons!"

And as far as the wisdom and knowledge of the Greeks is concerned, no, it wasn't lost during the Dark Ages, it just got diverted to the East, and tabled, at least as far as Europeans were concerned.

The burning of the Great Library of Alexandria was a major historical disaster, considering the scrolls that went up in flames. But a big question remains as to who actually burned the library. Plutarch blamed Julius Caesar. Edward Gibbon blamed Theophilus. One or two Christian bishops have also been blamed for it (along with the murder of Hypatia). Mark Antony was supposed to have given Cleopatra over 200,000 scrolls for the Library long after Julius Caesar is accused of having burned it.

But much of the knowledge of the ancient Greeks was preserved by Arabs, Muslims, et al, who added a great deal to the store of knowledge. The Dark Ages were a European phenomenon. While Europe was groping about in ignorance and superstition, in the Middle East, major advances were being made in astronomy, in the development of mathematics, including algebra (which is an Arabic root word), and much more. One salutary effect of the Crusades was that this knowledge began trickling back to Europe. At the same time, Thomas Aquinas discovered Aristotle, and tried to prove the existence of God through logic. He failed. All of his arguments have holes in them, but his efforts did earn him a sainthood and it got others interested in employing Aristotelian logic.

Aristotle advocated learning by observation of the external world and using rigorous logic (essentially scientific method), as opposed to the Platonic practice of looking inward, which the Christians had adopted. With Plato, enlightenment was supposed to come through contemplation of the True Essence of things; with Christians, through prayer, meditation, and Divine Revelation. Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo were inspired to try to learn what it's all about by looking outward and using their "God-given" brains instead of the European Christian version of navel gazing.

Bingo! Renaissance!

No, I don't think we lost all that much actual knowledge because of the loss of the Alexandrian library. Many of the plays of Sophocles were lost (only about five remain) and that was a tragedy, as was the loss of other literary works. But anything discovered by a process of rational thought can be re-discovered by rational thought. (But making back-ups is definitely advisable)

Considering that deep-dive vehicles have explored, and are currently exploring, the depths of the oceans and have been as far down as discovering and exploring the mid-Atlantic ridge, and that various kinds of sensor probes from satellites have pretty well mapped the oceans' depths, if a place such as Atlantis, existing "beyond the Gates of Hercules," I think that by now they would have found incontrovertible evidence of it (not just a haphazard row of squarish-looking stones that, if you squint just right, look like they may at one time have been some kind of a road).

I don't think Plato's Atlantis really existed any more that Thomas More's Utopia really existed. It's more a State of Mind.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 02:46 PM

"They may have had ancient maps of Atlantis. They may have had written records of contact. They may have had artifacts."...right, 10,000 years old. That's a lot of maybes...
   I have a lot of respect for what those clever old Greeks did, but their civilization was not AT that level for all those centuries. Someone had to MAKE clear records, someone had to PRESERVE the records, someone had to translate and remember what they were about, and relate the data to reality.

They 'may' have had past lives who lived there and channeled memories of the street plans....but, like I said, I wouldn't hold my breath till we are sure.

Do you **really** think that what Plato said justifies any high level of certainty? A legend may be loosely based on 'some' reality, but legends are embroidered.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:46 PM

No, I don't think it justifies any high level of certainty, I just think it's interesting and should not be rejected out of hand.

You see, most people still tend to believe what they want to believe. And that determines which side of the argument they will immediately rush to support whenever something like this is mentioned. They have an emotional predilection either toward or against the unconventional or the unusual or the "unconfirmed".

That's what's interesting. Why are some people more comfortable only with the confirmed while others are naturally enthusiastic about the hypothetical?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:51 PM

"others are naturally enthusiastic about the hypothetical"

Talk 'what if' all you want... what IS gonna get ya in the end....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 03:56 PM

Death is gonna get my body, in the end. But what if I am not solely my physical body? Then what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:21 PM

What if you are?

Think of all the time you've wasted preparing for something that never happens...

I'll let the 'after' sort itself out, especially until I have ANY good evidence that says there might BE any 'after'...

If there turns out to be an 'after', I'll deal with it when I get there.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: number 6
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:26 PM

I'm with you on that CH ... why worry, why speculate, think more about the 'now' cause that's what is ... anyway you'll find out where that freight train is going when they throw you onto the car.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:33 PM

Life as Holocaust analogy?

If you wanna live yours like that, go right ahead...

I don't see the need myself....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: number 6
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:38 PM

"Life as Holocaust analogy?"

huh .... I didn't mean it that way ... when our day is through, we get on the old freight train to take us home.

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:51 PM

If I am wrong, Clinton, it won't matter. I won't know I was wrong. I'll just be dead. I wouldn't mind that in the least, frankly. It would be like going to sleep. Sounds nice.

I don't believe in an afterlife because I have to have one to look forward to in order to be happy. I don't worry about it. I don't care. Either way is absolutely fine with me. Oblivion/non-existence or a conscious afterlife...either way is perfectly all right, as far as I'm concerned.

I gradually came to believe in an afterlife (after many years of believing in no such thing) simply because, based on a lot of different personal experiences and info I came across, it began to seem much more likely to me than no afterlife.

No other reason than that. It seems more probable to me that we are spirits temporarily building and inhabiting a body than bodies temporarily manifesting life which then ceases to be upon the body's death.

I owe this impression to no particular religion. In fact, religion has little or nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:52 PM

I'm not convinced there's a freight train either...

,-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:54 PM

Then lie down on the tracks, would you? ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 04:57 PM

make a left at Narnia and bear right when you pass Oz and you will find Atlantis


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:00 PM

I'm the one LAYING those tracks....

Follow them if you dare!

:-P
Heh

" It seems more probable to me that we are spirits..."

Really? Well, we puts our money on the table, where we think it'll do the most good eh....

At least you show glimmers from time to time of knowing you are sat AT the table with the rest of us..... Unlike the ones who are laying twitching at our feet, hallucinating they are soaring around the rafters...

This post gives me an ice-cream headache..... I'm gonna go see if there are any pictures of pretty young naked women on the internet....


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:05 PM

Oh, there are...no question about that. It beats hell out of doing your tax return, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 05:58 PM

47


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:32 PM

hey! you want Atlantis? I got info right here!

pictures 'n maps & such of related stuff

How & why & when

wow...I found it using Google, so it must be true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:36 PM

Bill, you are entirely too gullible. We're going to have to do something about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 06:39 PM

There's enough stuff on zetatalk, Bill, to keep you amused for eons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:04 PM

To get back to the thread title, yes, I believe in God because it's damned sure that somebody Up There is out to get me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:35 PM

Gawd, Bill, that brings back memories. I had a close relative who was into all of that stuff. If anybody questioned any of it, she would lapse into this smug, all-knowing smile and mutter something about "concrete-bound."

I became fascinated with the "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" comic strip in the Sunday funnies when I was about six years old, and have been a heavy-duty science-fiction fan ever since. Whole bookshelves full of Asimov, Heinlein, Edmond Hamilton, all those guys, and on into many of the more recent ones, plus often attending science-fiction conventions, meeting authors, taking in workshops. Jerry Pournelle and I used to be drinking-buddies. I have a couple of half-written science-fiction novels just waiting for me to get back to them (gotta do some up-dating, though). Never missed a single episode of Star Trek, except a couple episodes of Enterprise after it started getting a bit tedious (main thing that kept me watching was Jolene Blalock in a cat-suit; love women with pointy ears; madly in love with Galadriel, too). Science fact also. I rarely miss an episode of Nova, watch the Discovery Channel a lot, and I devour books by people like Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, and Michio Kaku. I can let my mind hurtle through vast expanses of space and time, and speculate endlessly on an infinity of possibilities. No lack of imagination.

But I never buy swampland or bridges. At least, I haven't yet.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 07:39 PM

Don,

I expect that you would enjoy reading James Blish's "Cities in Flight". It's a novel (made up of four novels) and there is a gang of neat stuff in it. Starts with a team building a bridge on Saturn (?). The bridge goes nowhere, but there is much more going on than that. It is sci-fi, but IMO one of the ten best ever written. I know that ain't yer bag, but just maybe . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 08:36 PM

You'll change your mind, Don, if you come up to Orillia, Ontario. I have a little swamp out here in the woods that I am willing to part with for a song...well, not literally, but a surprisingly low price! Yes indeed. And who would ever guess that beneath this little swamp is rumored to be hidden...Captain Kidd's pirate gold! Would I like to you? Of course not.

Then there's the bridge. It's near here, and it's a lovely antique bridge over the Coldwater River near beautiful downtown Coldwater. This picturesque reminder of our small town heritage can be had for a mere $30,000...payable in small unmarked bills.

But hurry! I can't promise that these items will last long, not at these prices. I'm practically GIVING THEM AWAY! I'm giving you this hot tip because I'm a friend, and that's what friends are for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 08:38 PM

Ummm...I mean, would I lie to you? Well, whaddya think? Of course I wouldn't! My word is my bond and my generosity is legendary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 09:15 PM

"Has it been definitively established that there never was a place called "Atlantis", then?"

If you know anything about reading Plato, how and why he wrote what he did then, yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 10:42 PM

I'm not completely sure that I believe Idaho exists, much less Atlantis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:01 PM

sure it does


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:02 PM

I can't find one of Atlantis...doesn't that prove...ummmm


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM

This is what I found in your link, Bill...

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /71354/LK-Idaho.gif on this server.

Maybe Idaho really doesn't exist. I'm not too surprised, actually. I know I've never seen it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM

If it didn't exist, someone would be compelled to invent it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:12 PM

Idaho has been kidnapped.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:15 PM

awww..shucks. Jeff, who makes icons ,wants to charge for some. The states list is free, but you seem to have to go in the front door.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Mar 06 - 11:18 PM

Well that settles it. There is no Idaho. I looked in Jeff's list and it's not there, so it can't possibly exist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:28 PM

The Cities in Flight series by James Blish. Great stuff, Peace! I read the series as separate novels back in the Sixties. I think I have them around here somewhere and they definitely merit re-reading. Mind-boggling! Thanks for the reminder!

I saw a science program on the tube a few of weeks ago where a couple of heavy-duty physicist were discussing possible space drives. One of the things they talked about was using a rapidly rotating mass to control gravity waves. Sounds a bit like Blish's "spindizzy" antigravity device.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: rock chick
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:39 PM

I must be careful what i say or they may cart me away in a straight jacket!! mind you they may do that anyway ;o))
Seriously though, I say anything is possible and if it gives you faith and helps you lead a better life then go with it, providing it harms no one in the process.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 04:42 PM

So, if you're driving from Alberta south to Salt Lake City or Elko, when you get to the border with the US you just softly and silently vanish away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:00 PM

Aha, Peace, I found it! Cities in Flight, four novels in one volume, by James Blish. Due to the good offices of my wife, Barbara, who works at the Seattle Public Library and used her skills to organize our bookshelves, it was sitting amid other novels by James Blish, just to the right of a couple of novels by Alfred Bester. 600+ pages. I may be "spaced out" for awhile.

And, Little Hawk, thanks for the offer on the swampland and the bridge. I'll check it out with my broker and see what he thinks (I call him "my broker" because "broker" is what he would keep me if I let him).

But let me run this past you:   perhaps we could work a swap. The swampland and the bridge for a neat little "mini-act" I have. It consists of a mouse, a tiny grand piano, and a canary. The mouse wears white tie and tails and plays the little grand piano. The canary wears an itty-bitty tiara and a gold lame evening gown, and stands in the incurve of the piano with the tips of her little wings clasped. They don't do any folk music, unfortunately, except for some gussied-up concert versions, but they have a big repertoire of opera, lieder, Broadway show tunes, pop songs from all eras, and a whole bunch of novelty songs. If you were to take this little act on the road, you could probably make a fortune! Think it over and let me know.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:03 PM

Sorry, Little Hawk, the deal's off. My conscience got to bothering me. I mean, after all, you're a good bloke, and if I were to lumber you with that mini-act, I would be cheating you. The thing is a total fraud!

That stupid canary can't sing a note. The mouse is a ventriloquist.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:07 PM

LOL

However, BE WARNED: Don't take it on the road in Idaho. It ain't there. As Rapaire said, people have been vanishing lots lately. And truthfully, when's the last time a potato looked you straight in the eyes and said, "I am from Idaho!" Aha, thought so . . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: frogprince
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:18 PM

Accidentally learned from the "tube" last night that almost all potatoes for chips (U.S. type chips) are grown in Pennsylvania. But that may be just since Idaho disappeared.


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:32 PM

Darn! Well, I should be relieved, I guess. I was almost ready to go for that deal. ;-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 08:50 PM

Last time I tried to look a potato in the eyes, I felt like I was trying to stare down Marty Feldman.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Do you believe in UFOs, God, Atlantis...
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 10:43 PM

Once upon a time, before Idaho disappeared, the land that came to be known as "Idaho" was flat as Kansas or Saska...Saksa...the province to the right of Alberta as you face North. It was, geology has shown, a high, flat, plain and rather boring from end to end.

Then came the potato.

What is known to only a few -- it's kept secret by the US Dept. of Agriculture and you'll learn why in just a minute -- is that potatoes are not vegetables!! Potatoes are actually a sightless, subterranean parasite much like a nemotode. Potatoes take their nutrients from the roots of what we call the "potato plant" or "potato vine". Potatoes will travel many miles (or kilometers in Canada or England or Ireland) to latch onto the roots of this plant, much like leeches do to warm-blooded creatures. The potato will suck the life from the plant if permitted to do so.

Potatoes were indigenous through the Idaho Plateau. There were literally millions of the critters, and when humans began planting potato plants the potatoes were of course attracted to their primary food source.

But humans didn't plant the potato plants evenly. No, they concentrated them in farms, in areas convenient to the humans. Thus the potatoes, generation after generation, migrated to what was, to them, a cheap and easy food source. But when the potatoes migrated nothing moved in behind them to fill the underground space that was vacated. Gradually, the land caved in, filling in the areas once full of potatoes. In many areas of Idaho this migration was so great, the swarms of potatoes so huge, that eventually the rocky "spines" underground were all that was left, and humans coming later thought that Idaho had always been covered with mountains.

This is a simple explanation, of course. You can read the entire story in Larribee's definitive work, Idaho Geology: The Challenge of the Potato (Moscow, Idaho: University of Idaho Press, 1947). Of course, the U of I no longer exists but you might find the book in some library somewhere.


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